The Briefing Room
General Category => National/Breaking News => Topic started by: mystery-ak on May 18, 2018, 01:23:51 pm
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Developing
The Associated Press
â€Verified account @AP
2m2 minutes ago
BREAKING: Texas sheriff's office: Law enforcement officers are responding to an active shooter at high school southeast of Houston.
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Updates should be here:
https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/santa-fe-texas-shooting/index.html?adkey=bn (https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/santa-fe-texas-shooting/index.html?adkey=bn)
By the way, this school is in Texas, not New Mexico as I first thought.
Prayers up.
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The kid has a shotgun.
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#Ginqer
†@thangel77
5m5 minutes ago
Medical helicopters total 3 now landed Santa Fe High School from Children's memorial hospital ~ one has left with student already ~ 1 parent indicates 8 ambulances have departed scene #Qanon @POTUS
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dde_h76UwAIp6J_.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dde_fE2U8AEkvtr.jpg)
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dde_VEyVwAYhRLn.jpg)
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The kid has a shotgun.
How the hell does a kid get into a school with a long gun in this day and age? Kids are being busted for having aspirin.
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Not sure this is true
Aiden Benjamin
†@AidenHagi
28m28 minutes ago
Breaking News:
School shooting in Santa Fe High School..
..it is now being reported that 2 resource officers are dead and dozens of students are injured / dead
Students are saying that the shooter has 4 AR-15 style guns and bags of ammunition.
Stay tuned for more information
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Fox reporting shooter in custody
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How the hell does a kid get into a school with a long gun in this day and age? Kids are being busted for having aspirin.
I dunno, but I was hoping the part about a shotgun was true, instead of an AR. I don't think I can bear another month of that no-chin punk Hogg on the TV.
Prayers for the victims.
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Santa Fe is very close to me here in San Leon, tx
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Santa Fe is very close to me here in San Leon, tx
I've driven past that school several times on my way to and from Galveston.
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Fox News reporting it's now a multiple casualty incident.
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Fox News reporting it's now a multiple casualty incident.
Eight dead. Damn it.
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This is near by us. Friend of ours that works at the county courthouse has told us 8 dead so far. I don't have a link to confirm.
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Eight dead. Damn it.
Oh s**t..
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One eyewitness said they heard an explosion.
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Problem is hyped media attention gives some disturbed individuals sitting on the fence visions of glory, edging them closer to pulling the trigger. Maybe a media black out on naming the perp is in order.
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Problem is hyped media attention gives some disturbed individuals sitting on the fence visions of glory, edging them closer to pulling the trigger. Maybe a media black out on naming the perp is in order.
In this case, if the perp was not killed and under 18 years old, I was wondering if we might not even know the perp's name, as dastardly as this is.
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Eight dead. Damn it.
&$^#!
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The way Fox was covering this I didn't expect any causalities..
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CNN is already starting the propaganda about this being the 22nd school shooting this year. *****rollingeyes*****
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This is starting to look like a conspiracy. We don't suddenly go from less than one a year to one a week without this being planned. Our public schools are being targeted. (Specifically public schools. Not a single one of these has been a Catholic or private academy.)
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This is starting to look like a conspiracy. We don't suddenly go from less than one a year to one a week without this being planned. Our public schools are being targeted. (Specifically public schools. Not a single one of these has been a Catholic or private academy.)
Actually, a Catholic School was targeted but they stopped it before the plan got off the ground or the suspect, an 18 year old Taiwanese, was joking. I don't know where this case is as of now. The article is dated March 30.
Suspect in Pa. school attack plot had 'unusual ideas'; apparently liked guns, flamethrowers
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Sun threatened to commit a shooting on May 1 at the Monsignor Bonner and Archbishop Prendergast High School he attended, according to police in the Pennsylvania town of Upper Darby.
Read more at: http://www.mcall.com/news/breaking/mc-nws-pa-school-attack-plot-suspect-unusual-ideas-20180330-story.html (http://www.mcall.com/news/breaking/mc-nws-pa-school-attack-plot-suspect-unusual-ideas-20180330-story.html)
He sounds dangerous. He probably had dangerous plans of some sort.
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Eight dead. Damn it.
May they rest in peace.
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Santa Fe is very close to me here in San Leon, tx
I'm ~20 miles away in Rosharon.
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Fox reporting shooter in custody
A Houston police official says that two suspects are in custody
https://www.yahoo.com/news/live-updates-shooting-santa-fe-texas-high-school-150311016.html (https://www.yahoo.com/news/live-updates-shooting-santa-fe-texas-high-school-150311016.html)
Live link.....
https://www.khou.com/mobile/article/news/local/watch-live-at-least-8-killed-in-shooting-at-santa-fe-hs-officials-sweeping-building/285-553331098 (https://www.khou.com/mobile/article/news/local/watch-live-at-least-8-killed-in-shooting-at-santa-fe-hs-officials-sweeping-building/285-553331098)
Sheriff clarified one suspect in custody, another person of interest detained. Both male students at the school.
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I lived in League City for about 18 years, just north from Santa Fe on highway 45. Both League City and points south to Dickinson and Santa Fe were highly damaged/flooded from that last hurricane. Now this has happened.
Up thread it says two "resource" adults were killed - those are peace officers on campus. Maybe they were not killed. There is another news conference in one hour - I heard that about 10:30 am central time so around 11:30 will get another report; maybe that will clear up who the dead are.
Another news conference from sheriff now on CNN.
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Sheriff says 8 to 10 killed, the majority were students.
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Mike Gallagher, radio show host has been discussing this, this morning.
A caller just called in and pointed out how cell phones (distracted driving I guess) kill about 2500 teens a year, then, there are those figures for teen suicide and so on but these stories always, correctly, get all of this coverage.
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Steve Brusk
â€Verified account @stevebruskCNN
2m2 minutes ago
Sheriff Ed Gonlazez says the death toll in between 8 and 10 in the Sante Fe high school shooting, mostly students.
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Suspect in custody, they have a "person of interest" detained.
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Based on the number of LEOs, EMTs, and medivac helicopters on the scene, this looks like it was a very rapid and well organized response to a terrible situation.
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Fox 26 Houston reporting 8-10 people dead. One additional student taken into custody.
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Based on the number of LEOs, EMTs, and medivac helicopters on the scene, this looks like it was a very rapid and well organized response to a terrible situation.
@edpc
@mystery-ak
The helicopters took patients to this hospital in Galveston: The University of Texas Medical Branch hospital in Galveston, TX, is a teaching hospital. I worked there as a researcher for a year or so before I opened my office. There is every available medical treatment there. Their burn center is the best available. Also, being on Galveston Island with hurricanes coming in, they are always ready for medical injuries from hurricanes. They don't shut down when a hurricane comes in.
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Fox 26 Houston reporting 8-10 people dead. One additional student taken into custody.
Saw the same
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This is starting to look like a conspiracy. We don't suddenly go from less than one a year to one a week without this being planned. Our public schools are being targeted. (Specifically public schools. Not a single one of these has been a Catholic or private academy.)
I don't know about a conspiracy, but I do think these loons watch and learn from others who have done the same thing. The schools and the parents aren't helping for the most part either. They insist upon making these schools gun-free zones and refuse to do anything that might make the schools safer. Armed guards? You have to be kidding. Metal detectors and searches? No. They violate the kids' right to privacy. Mention these suggestions and you will be ignored or ridiculed. They are fixated on gun confiscation in the mistaken belief that disarming the citizens will make these shootings go away.
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A police officer is also being treated, the extent of his injuries are unknown.
According to the chief nursing officer at UTMB, David Marshall, there's three victims at the hospital.
Marshall said during a press conference that two adults and one minor were transported to the facility for treatment.
The three victims' condition were not immediately released, but Marshall did say one person was in the operating room.
http://abc13.com/at-least-8-dead-and-officer-injured-following-santa-fe-hs-shooting-/3491480/ (http://abc13.com/at-least-8-dead-and-officer-injured-following-santa-fe-hs-shooting-/3491480/)
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On the TV I heard students say they first heard the fire alarm before they heard any shooting.
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Per msnbc. Shooter 17 years old so no name will be released. One other person may have helped. Explosives also used.
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@mystery-ak
Also, my husband was Vice President at American National Insurance Company located on Galveston Island. Their building is the only high rise on the island. Since he worked there, I have been on Galveston Island a lot during those years plus the year I worked
there. We knew all the area from the island to League City and the town of Webster, next to League City where NASA is.
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Fox reporting explosive devices on campus
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Per msnbc. Shooter 17 years old so no name will be released. One other person may have helped. Explosives also used.
Right, explosion heard but can that mean a gun blast? Anyway, right, we may not know the perps name.
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I don't know about a conspiracy, but I do think these loons watch and learn from others who have done the same thing. The schools and the parents aren't helping for the most part either. They insist upon making these schools gun-free zones and refuse to do anything that might make the schools safer. Armed guards? You have to be kidding. Metal detectors and searches? No. They violate the kids' right to privacy. Mention these suggestions and you will be ignored or ridiculed. They are fixated on gun confiscation in the mistaken belief that disarming the citizens will make these shootings go away.
In Texas, the law is, each school district can determine whether or not they want armed guards. It appears this school did have one or more.
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CNN says 12 people hospitalized and Governor Abbott is traveling to the scene.
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Santa Fe ISD
†@SantaFeISD
11m11 minutes ago
#UPDATE Possible explosive devices have been located at the school and off campus. Law enforcement is in the process of rendering them safe. School has been evacuated. Call 911 if you see any suspicious item
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Zach Muehe, a sophomore, at the school tells FOX 26 that he saw another student from his football class come into his classroom and start shooting.
Muehe says he then ran to another classroom to alert a teacher to evacuate the school.
He says the teacher then pulled the alarm while evacuating students.
http://www.fox26houston.com/news/report-of-shots-fired-at-santa-fe-high-school (http://www.fox26houston.com/news/report-of-shots-fired-at-santa-fe-high-school)
11:10 a.m.: A senior law enforcement official said nine people have died. The shooter is a student who was armed with an AR-15 style assault rifle, a shotgun and a pistol, said the official, who requested anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to the media.
"Evidently this guy threw pipe bombs all in there," the official said. "We don't know if any of them went off.
The source said the death toll, which includes students and staff, is expected to rise.
He also identified the injured police officer as John Barnes, a former Houston police officer who was retired and working with the school's police department. He was shot in the shoulder and is not critically wounded, the source said.
https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Shots-fired-at-Santa-Fe-High-School-12925050.php (https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Shots-fired-at-Santa-Fe-High-School-12925050.php)
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Right, explosion heard but can that mean a gun blast? Anyway, right, we may not know the perps name.
If the punk is tried as an adult, he may be identified then.
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Can't say if it is related but Ramadan started recently. And the tactic of using explosions to cause confusion followed by weapons fire as people either flee or respond is a very well known typical Muslim attack.
I can't say that the shooter is Muslim, but what he did is a common way that Muslims do terror attacks all over the world. Maybe it is just a coincidence.
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If the punk is tried as an adult, he may be identified then.
That's a good point. We still might have to wait a bit, from a few days until who knows how long.
And he probably would be tried as an adult. He will probably get a mental evaluation as well at some point.
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Sara Murray
â€Verified account @SaraMurray
1h1 hour ago
CNN’s list of confirmed school shootings for 2018 now stands at 22.
Twenty-two. Already. This year.
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Can't say if it is related but Ramadan started recently. And the tactic of using explosions to cause confusion followed by weapons fire as people either flee or respond is a very well known typical Muslim attack.
I can't say that the shooter is Muslim, but what he did is a common way that Muslims do terror attacks all over the world. Maybe it is just a coincidence.
Maybe not Muslim, but an ISIS wannabe. Non-Muslims with some axe to grind are being actively recruited via the internet.
I keep hearing ISIS has been defeated. Maybe on some battlefields in the ME, but they are alive and well in other parts of the world, including the US.
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Zach Muehe, a sophomore, at the school tells FOX 26 that he saw another student from his football class come into his classroom and start shooting.
Okay, basic facts, if this is true, I snipped some of Elderberry's post... if the guy was in football (football class? meaning on the football team?), that would seem to make the Islamic angle less likely but it would still be possible. Just saying.
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Maybe not Muslim, but an ISIS wannabe. Non-Muslims with some axe to grind are being actively recruited via the internet.
I keep hearing ISIS has been defeated. Maybe on some battlefields in the ME, but they are alive and well in other parts of the world, including the US.
And if Neo-Nazis exist, I guess we could say Nazism hasn't been fully defeated.
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Sara Murray
â€Verified account @SaraMurray
1h1 hour ago
CNN’s list of confirmed school shootings for 2018 now stands at 22.
Twenty-two. Already. This year.
@mystery-ak
That's CNN pushing the anti gun rhetoric from Everytown for Gun Safety...Bloomberg's gun grabbing outfit.
This is number 6.
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@mystery-ak
That's CNN pushing the anti gun rhetoric from Everytown for Gun Safety...Bloomberg's gun grabbing outfit.
This is number 6.
@txradioguy Beat me to it. Thanks for clearing that up. There's also a 40+ number out there from Moms Demand that includes shootings within a couple of miles of a school at any time of day or week whether kids were in school or not.
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@mystery-ak
That's CNN pushing the anti gun rhetoric from Everytown for Gun Safety...Bloomberg's gun grabbing outfit.
This is number 6.
All the media outlets are pushing the gun grabbing agenda even before the dead have been accurately tallied. One of the alphabet networks was interviewing a Parkland parent saying "I told you so" or something like that. I suppose that Hogg punk will be all over the news with his BS very soon.
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@mystery-ak
That's CNN pushing the anti gun rhetoric from Everytown for Gun Safety...Bloomberg's gun grabbing outfit.
This is number 6.
I replied to Murray's tweet telling her to be careful since CNN was not known for veracity. :smokin:
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All the media outlets are pushing the gun grabbing agenda even before the dead have been accurately tallied. One of the alphabet networks was interviewing a Parkland parent saying "I told you so" or something like that. I suppose that Hogg punk will be all over the news with his BS very soon.
I'm surprised CNN hasn't put the little brown shirt on camera yet.
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What's the over/under that camera Hogg and the bald chick are on a plane to TX as we speak??
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@txradioguy Beat me to it. Thanks for clearing that up. There's also a 40+ number out there from Moms Demand that includes shootings within a couple of miles of a school at any time of day or week whether kids were in school or not.
@Meldrew Everytown includes things like someone committing suicide in their car in a school parking lot when the school is closed for the summer.
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@txradioguy yeah, propagandists gotta propagandize.
Another thing to watch for from Redsteeze
"Yeah something oddly unsettling now that post shooting interviews of surviving kids now seem to be audition tapes for media on gun control."
http://twitter.com/redsteeze/status/997516810651086854 (http://twitter.com/redsteeze/status/997516810651086854)
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Reports coming in now that explosives have been found in the building. The HCSO bomb squad is sweeping the school and surrounding grounds.
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All the media outlets are pushing the gun grabbing agenda even before the dead have been accurately tallied. One of the alphabet networks was interviewing a Parkland parent saying "I told you so" or something like that. I suppose that Hogg punk will be all over the news with his BS very soon.
Hogg is on his bike, like Kevin Bacon in Quicksilver.
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A male suspect, believed to be a student, has been arrested in the shooting, and a second person -- also believed to be a student -- has been detained as well, Gonzalez said.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/18/us/texas-school-shooting/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/18/us/texas-school-shooting/index.html)
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Didn't take long:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/breakingnews/david-hogg-scolds-politicians-after-santa-fe-shooting/ar-AAxtD6F?ocid=spartandhp (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/breakingnews/david-hogg-scolds-politicians-after-santa-fe-shooting/ar-AAxtD6F?ocid=spartandhp)
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Sara Murray
â€Verified account @SaraMurray
1h1 hour ago
CNN’s list of confirmed school shootings for 2018 now stands at 22.
Twenty-two. Already. This year.
Our local CBS affiliate just said this is false (the number they had was 18). She said they're counting shootings near schools, suicides in the vicinity of schools, and such to pad the number and that the narrative they're trying to perpetuate is inaccurate.
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Didn't take long:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/breakingnews/david-hogg-scolds-politicians-after-santa-fe-shooting/ar-AAxtD6F?ocid=spartandhp (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/breakingnews/david-hogg-scolds-politicians-after-santa-fe-shooting/ar-AAxtD6F?ocid=spartandhp)
No, it didn’t. There are professionals at the scene, doing what they need to right now. People on either side would do well to stay away and not make statements or spectacles there. It’s not the time or place.
Man shows up to site of Santa Fe High School shooting with American flag, Trump hat and gun
https://www.yahoo.com/news/man-shows-sight-santa-fe-150800287.html (https://www.yahoo.com/news/man-shows-sight-santa-fe-150800287.html)
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@Sanguine
@Victoria33
I'm behind
I was doing volunteer work with a therapy group of women's trauma patients. Just got home and saw this.
Prayers for you and all my friends in Texas.. bless you all.
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Didn't take long:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/breakingnews/david-hogg-scolds-politicians-after-santa-fe-shooting/ar-AAxtD6F?ocid=spartandhp (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/breakingnews/david-hogg-scolds-politicians-after-santa-fe-shooting/ar-AAxtD6F?ocid=spartandhp)
The worst turds always float to the top after a dump.
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@Sanguine
@Victoria33
I'm behind
I was doing volunteer work with a therapy group of women's trauma patients. Just got home and saw this.
Prayers for you and all my friends in Texas.. bless you all.
Thanks, Freya.
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Santa Fe shooter named as student Dimitrios Pagourtzis, 17, who wore ‘Born to Kill’ t-shirt
https://metro.co.uk/2018/05/18/santa-fe-shooter-named-student-dimitrios-pagourtzis-wore-born-kill-t-shirt-7558129/ (https://metro.co.uk/2018/05/18/santa-fe-shooter-named-student-dimitrios-pagourtzis-wore-born-kill-t-shirt-7558129/)
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Thanks, Freya.
@Freya
@mystery-ak
The ambulances from Santa Fe going to the League City hospital, would see the road sign to turn to the hospital, due to son being responsible for that sign being there. We lived in League City and a man and wife lived in house behind us. The man had a heart attack, the ambulance came, and my husband and son took the wife to the hospital with the ambulance in front of them. The ambulance missed the turn to hospital as there was no sign there directing people to turn there to hospital. Ambulance had to keep going for a distance in order to turn around and come back to the road to turn toward hospital. The wife of the man came apart emotionally when the ambulance missed the turn.
Son was in high school and ambulance missing the turn, upset him. He wrote a letter to the officials of that town, telling them what happened and asked them to put a sign there. They sent him a letter that the sign was going up. That is son's sign now that directs ambulances to the hospital.
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(https://metrouk2.files.wordpress.com/2018/05/shooter3.jpg?w=620&h=1038&crop=1)
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After the massacre, police rushed to the trailer park were Pagourtzis lived amid reports it had been booby-trapped with explosives.
He is said to have used improvised explosive devices and pipe bombs during the slaughter.
CNN reported the same about IEDs at the trailer.
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CNN also says pressure cookers found at the trailer.
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CNN also says pressure cookers found at the trailer.
Curious to know if his ethnic background is the same as the Boston bombers.
I wonder if it will ever be known.
Dimitri Pagoutzis isn't a name you hear everyday in southeast TX.
I couldn't tell you the last time I've heard it, other than never.
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The name is Greek. But, there are lots of Muslims in Greece, so we still don't know much about him.
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(https://metrouk2.files.wordpress.com/2018/05/shooter3.jpg?w=620&h=1038&crop=1)
"Comma Nazi", well, they say Nazism was defeated and I guess, maybe it has been on some battlefields in Europe, but obviously, Neo-Nazis are still here, and it looks like a Satanic sign as well.
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CNN just reported 10 dead, 12 injured.
2nd person in custody is considered a possible accomplice
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I rather wait until we get more info about the killer and his motive.
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5745025/Texas-high-school-placed-lockdown-amid-reports-active-shooter.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5745025/Texas-high-school-placed-lockdown-amid-reports-active-shooter.html)
PICTURED: Student, 17, who yelled 'Surprise!' as he burst into art class at Texas high school armed with an assault rifle, shotgun and pistol, killing 10 and booby trapping campus with explosives
many photos
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5745817/Parkland-activists-Twitter-Santa-Fe-school-shooting.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5745817/Parkland-activists-Twitter-Santa-Fe-school-shooting.html)
'Get ready for two weeks of politicians acting like they give a s**t': Parkland activists take to Twitter immediately after Santa Fe school shooting to pledge support for students
David Hogg and Emma Gonzalez pleaded their support on Friday for students at Santa Fe High School in Texas
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Presser with Abbott and Cruz coming up ...
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What kind of animal indiscriminately murders classmates?
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And now here comes the Faux Sanctimony.
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Curious to know if his ethnic background is the same as the Boston bombers.
I wonder if it will ever be known.
Dimitri Pagoutzis isn't a name you hear everyday in southeast TX.
I couldn't tell you the last time I've heard it, other than never.
Probably Greek.
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How the hell does a kid get into a school with a long gun in this day and age? Kids are being busted for having aspirin.
@Frank Cannon I was amazed also. There were no barriers whatsoever at the main entrance to the school.
When I went to a reunion at my former high school (in Oak Cliff, Dallas) I was a little shocked to see a guard desk and metal detectors at the entrance. This was several years ago. It seems like this would be a simple enough thing to do.
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What kind of animal indiscriminately murders classmates?
Dehumanizing Greeks. Tsk, tsk. < / s >
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Via CNN: Shooter was injured when he was captured. He is being interrogated. The ATF does not have any record of him purchasing any weapons.
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I'm waiting, as usual, to find out what kind of FDA approved mind control drugs he was on.
Like Parkland.
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Via CNN: Shooter was injured when he was captured. He is being interrogated. The ATF does not have any record of him purchasing any weapons.
Both he and Nik Cruz, despite being active threats to life and limb, were captured alive. :whistle:
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I'm waiting, as usual, to find out what kind of FDA approved mind control drugs he was on.
Like Parkland.
I'd throw Dylan Roof and James Holmes in there too. Betcha a shiny new quarter they had also taken opioids.
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I'd throw Dylan Roof and James Holmes in there too. Betcha a shiny new quarter they had also taken opioids.
So many different stories but I read somewhere that the shooter was already a person of interest, as in a potential danger.
I know they can't arrest anyone based on what they might do or, are even likely to do, but it seems odd that this guy could casually enter the school carrying multiple weapons.
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So many different stories but I read somewhere that the shooter was already a person of interest, as in a potential danger.
I know they can't arrest anyone based on what they might do or, are even likely to do, but it seems odd that this guy could casually enter the school carrying multiple weapons.
Certainly begs for questions. I couldn't walk into a 7/11 or anywhere really carrying a shotgun, a rifle, a pistol and ammo. So how did this guy walk into a school with all that gear? And not only did he enter the school, he made all the way to his classroom which means he was walking the hallways. Nobody saw anything unusual about this guy? Really? You can't fit a shotgun in a backpack.
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At our local schools, there is only one door you can enter by, and you have to be buzzed in. I find it incomprehensible that in this day and age there would be an open, unattended door. If that was the case.
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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/05/18/texas-school-shooting-sparks-reaction-from-trump-other-lawmakers-this-has-to-stop.html (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/05/18/texas-school-shooting-sparks-reaction-from-trump-other-lawmakers-this-has-to-stop.html)
Trump addressed the school shooting shortly after news broke that there were multiple casualties.
"We grieve for the terrible loss of life and send our support and love to everyone affected by this absolutely horrific attack," Trump said. "To the students, families, teachers and personnel at Santa Fe High, we are with you in this tragic hour, and we will be with you forever."
Donald J. Trump
✔
@realDonaldTrump
We grieve for the terrible loss of life, and send our support and love to everyone affected by this horrible attack in Texas. To the students, families, teachers and personnel at Santa Fe High School – we are with you in this tragic hour, and we will be with you forever...
11:34 AM - May 18, 2018
Texas Sen. Ted Cruz expressed his prayers to the students, faculty and first responders.
Senator Ted Cruz
✔
@SenTedCruz
Heidi and I are keeping all the students and faculty at Santa Fe High School in our prayers this morning, along with all first responders on the scene. Please be safe and heed warnings from local officials. https://twitter.com/SantaFeISD/status/997472223421173761 (https://twitter.com/SantaFeISD/status/997472223421173761) …
8:57 AM - May 18, 2018
Sen. John Cornyn, who represents Texas, said he’s been in contact with the Galveston County Sheriff’s Department and has been receiving updates.
Senator John Cornyn
✔
@JohnCornyn
Just talked to Galveston County Sheriff’s Department for update on Santa Fe High School shooting. Local, state and federal authorities on scene.
10:15 AM - May 18, 2018
“My thoughts are with the community of Santa Fe,†Rep. Beto O’Rourke, D-Texas, said in a tweet. “All Texans are thinking of the students, teachers and administrators within the Santa Fe ISD, and the law enforcement officers who are quickly responding.â€
Beto O'Rourke
✔
@BetoORourke
My thoughts are with the community of Santa Fe. All Texans are thinking of the students, teachers, and administrators within the Santa Fe ISD, and the law enforcement officers who are quickly responding.
8:34 AM - May 18, 2018
The Texas attorney general’s office said it “stands ready to assist in any way necessary.â€
“Please pray for the victims’ families, as well as the teachers, administrators, and law enforcement officers working on the scene now,†the office said.
TX AG's Office
✔
@TXAG
We are carefully monitoring the situation in Santa Fe. This agency stands ready to assist in any way necessary. Please pray for the victims' families, as well as teachers, administrators, and law enforcement officers actively working on the scene now.
10:21 AM - May 18, 2018
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So many different stories but I read somewhere that the shooter was already a person of interest, as in a potential danger.
I know they can't arrest anyone based on what they might do or, are even likely to do, but it seems odd that this guy could casually enter the school carrying multiple weapons.
So many rumors right now. I heard he frequently wore long trench coats, a-la Columbine, and that there were also rice cookers wired in his house. (Boston bomber)
Have to wait and see, I guess.
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I'd throw Dylan Roof and James Holmes in there too. Betcha a shiny new quarter they had also taken opioids.
My money's on ADHD drugs, SSRI antidepressants and/or Atypical Antipsychotics.
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My money's on ADHD drugs and/or SSRI antidepressants.
Yep. The drugs made him do it.
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I'm betting that there was an adult or some group involved in this attack. A coordinated attack like this, with explosives and small arms is not something a wacko 17 year old would usually do. Kids normally are impulsive and running on emotion. This was far from an 'impulse' attack. It was not emotional. It sounds more like a planned 'operation'.
This was meticulously planned likely for months in advance. I doubt the kid was the sole mastermind in setting all this up. Somebody or some group helped him, guided him, and sent him in there to do what he did.
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Yep. The drugs made him do it.
https://ssristories.org/
over 6000 of them.
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Certainly begs for questions. I couldn't walk into a 7/11 or anywhere really carrying a shotgun, a rifle, a pistol and ammo. So how did this guy walk into a school with all that gear? And not only did he enter the school, he made all the way to his classroom which means he was walking the hallways. Nobody saw anything unusual about this guy? Really? You can't fit a shotgun in a backpack.
@240B
We were in car, radio on and it was said he was wearing a trench coat; so, he had the long guns under a trench coat.
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@240B
We were in car, radio on and it was said he was wearing a trench coat; so, he had the long guns under a trench coat.
You would think the trench coat would have set off alarm bells. Especially in south Texas in late May.
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That's another thing, in the trench coat, stuff like that and the way the social media image that was posted. Some of this stuff looks a bit "Goth" but that is mere speculation and I'm certainly not saying that is what this is.
Prayers for those poor families who lost loved ones including it sounds like security officers.
888cryingkitty
I'm sure most of those kids that are "Goth" are not a threat, it just takes one..
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News Conference by Gov. Greg Abbott on CNN
2 weapons, Shotgun and 38 revolver. Both purchased by his father. Now there are 2 people of interest.
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News Conference by Gov. Greg Abbott on CNN
2 weapons, Shotgun and 38 revolver. Both purchased by his father. Now there are 2 people of interest.
So no AR-15??
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So no AR-15??
No evil Assault Rifle.
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You would think the trench coat would have set off alarm bells. Especially in south Texas in late May.
Yep, it's been in the mid 90's lately.
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https://ssristories.org/
over 6000 of them.
Great link, thanks.
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Abbott said the perp planned on committing suicide after the attack, but didn't have the nerve to do it. Wonder when we'll get the name of the other detained person.
Another case of red flags on social media. Perp's dad bought the guns legally. Perp had access to an abandoned trailer where he probably worked. This time the school resource officer manned up.
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So no AR-15??
Impossible. People were shot.
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This is starting to look like a conspiracy. We don't suddenly go from less than one a year to one a week without this being planned. Our public schools are being targeted. (Specifically public schools. Not a single one of these has been a Catholic or private academy.)
Stop having "Gun Free Zones". Allow teachers that are trained and qualified to carry. Put up a sign that reads that some members of the faculty are armed and willing to defend the students. This shit will stop very quickly.
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No evil Assault Rifle.
If it ends up being something like a UTS-15 or a Saiga, they'll say there's no difference.
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Stop having "Gun Free Zones". Allow teachers that are trained and qualified to carry. Put up a sign that reads that some members of the faculty are armed and willing to defend the students. This shit will stop very quickly.
In Texas, 172 school districts allow teachers, staff to carry guns in schools
That's a start.
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Stop having "Gun Free Zones". Allow teachers that are trained and qualified to carry. Put up a sign that reads that some members of the faculty are armed and willing to defend the students. This shit will stop very quickly.
QFT
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In Texas, 172 school districts allow teachers, staff to carry guns in schools
That's a start.
Out of 1300+.
You're right! It's a start but that's all. And I'll bet every single one of those 172 is predominantly rural.
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Stop having "Gun Free Zones". Allow teachers that are trained and qualified to carry. Put up a sign that reads that some members of the faculty are armed and willing to defend the students. This shit will stop very quickly.
Since every one of these basket case shooters is a pathological narcissist 'born to kill' perhaps a more muscular approach is required.
Personally, I think the law should adapt a take no prisoners approach - totally ventilate the gun toting twerp on the scene in every case and prosecute as an accessory any news outlet that mentions his name.
Not very likely, I know.
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Yep. The drugs made him do it.
It's amazing. Many people who die from bacterial pneumonia in the hospital are being given antibiotics.
It's vitally important that when someone has a mental illness that we don't treat him!
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Great link, thanks.
@LucasWhite
You're welcome.
Here's one on Cruz the Parkland shooter:
https://psychroaches.blogspot.com/2018/02/psychiatrist-says-more-psychiatry-means.html
Cruz had 39 encounters with the police. Sociopathic radar alarm.
He had been under Psychiatric 'care'/SSSSS.
Somewhere along the line the 'Pros From Dover' put him on ADHD meds.
"What do we know about Cruz’s psychiatric treatment?
The First Tragic Irony
According to the New York Times, the official department report that found Cruz to be “low risk†indicated that “he was regularly taking medication for A.D.H.D. It was unclear whether he was taking anything for depression, according to the report.â€
In more detail, NBC News observed that Nikolas’s adoptive mother “insisted he received his necessary medication as prescribed.â€
Investigators from the Department of Children and Families also contacted Cruz’s healthcare provider. NBC News quoted directly from report, “[Cruz’s] clinician from Henderson Mental Health has stated that there are no issues with [Cruz’s] medication and he has been compliant with taking his medication and keeps all his appointments.â€
This is an irony of tragic proportions. Cruz was left unsupervised and free to buy a gun because he was faithfully taking psychiatric drugs that can cause or aggravate violence.
But do psychiatric drugs really cause violence?
Antidepressant-Induced Violence
In the early 1990s, a federal court appointed me to be the scientific expert for all of the combined product liability cases that were brought against Eli Lilly throughout the country concerning Prozac-induced violence, suicide and crime. Since then I have been involved in many cases in which judges and juries, and even prosecuting attorneys, have determined that psychiatric drugs have caused or substantially contributed to violence. For a lengthy list, see the Legal Section on my website.
In 2003/2004, I wrote a scientific review article about antidepressant-induced suicide, violence and mania which the FDA distributed to all its advisory committee members. This took place as the FDA Advisory Committee members prepared to review new warnings to be put in the Full Prescribing Information for all antidepressants.
In my peer-reviewed paper, I wrote:
Mania with psychosis is the extreme end of a stimulant continuum that often begins with lesser degrees of insomnia, nervousness, anxiety, hyperactivity and irritability and then progresses toward more severe agitation, aggression, and varying degrees of mania. (p. 2)
In words very close to and sometimes identical to mine, the FDA one year later required the manufacturers of every antidepressant to put the following observations in the Warnings section of the Full Prescribing Information:
All patients being treated with antidepressants for any indication should be monitored appropriately and observed closely for clinical worsening, suicidality, and unusual changes in behavior, especially during the initial few months of a course of drug therapy, or at times of dose changes, either increases or decreases. The following symptoms, anxiety, agitation, panic attacks, insomnia, irritability, hostility, aggressiveness, impulsivity, akathisia (psychomotor restlessness), hypomania, and mania, have been reported in adult and pediatric patients being treated with antidepressants for major depressive disorder as well as for other indications, both psychiatric and nonpsychiatric. (Celexa 2017, p. 8, bold added)
These adverse drug effects—including agitation, irritability, hostility, aggressiveness, akathisia, and impulsivity—are an obvious prescription for violence. Akathisia, which I also described in my article, is a psychomotor agitation that is strongly associated with violence.
The FDA further confirmed that antidepressants can cause violence in the FDA-approved Medication Guide for antidepressants. By law, Medication Guides must be based on science and on the drug’s Full Prescribing Information. These several-page guides are intended to be shared and discussed by the doctor with patients and their families.
The FDA Medication Guide for antidepressants warns clinicians, patients and families to be on the alert for the following:
acting on dangerous impulses
acting aggressive or violent
feeling agitated, restless, angry or irritable
other unusual changes in behavior or mood (Celexa 2017, p. 33)
This list (above) of antidepressant adverse effects from the Medication Guide should make clear that antidepressants can cause violence.
Stimulant-Induced Violence
The FDA also acknowledges the risk of both psychosis and aggression from the stimulant drugs used to treat ADHD, but waffles somewhat in the Full Prescribing Information about aggression. These excerpts are from the Dexedrine (amphetamine) Full Prescribing Information:
Psychiatric Adverse Events
Emergence of New Psychotic or Manic Symptoms: Treatment emergent psychotic or manic symptoms, e.g., hallucinations, delusional thinking, or mania in children and adolescents without a prior history of psychotic illness or mania can be caused by stimulants at usual doses.
Aggression: Aggressive behavior or hostility is often observed in children and adolescents with ADHD, and has been reported in clinical trials and the post-marketing experience of some medications indicated for the treatment of ADHD. Although there is no systematic evidence that stimulants cause aggressive behavior or hostility, patients beginning treatment for ADHD should be monitored for the appearance of, or worsening of, aggressive behavior or hostility. (Dexedrine, 2007, p. 3)
The Medication Guide for Dexedrine warns to report to the doctor “Mental (Psychiatric) Problems†that can be caused by the stimulant. The warning for stimulants echoes some of the adverse violence-related effects caused by antidepressants:
new or worse behavior and thought problems
new or worse bipolar illness
new or worse aggressive behavior or hostility (Dexedrine, 2014, p. 9)
Study Shows Antidepressants and Stimulants Are Especially Likely to Cause Violence
One of the most convincing studies of medication-induced violence was based on reports of violence to the FDA over a several year period. When the number of prescriptions written for each drug was factored in, a small group of drugs accounted for almost all reports of violence.
In the study of violence reports to the FDA, any predisposition toward violence in the patients themselves was largely ruled out because some of the most violence-inducing drugs were not psychiatric drugs, and were being given to a more general population. Some of the violence-inducing drugs were antibiotics, including Lariam (Mefloquine), which Sgt. Robert Bales was taking when he slaughtered 16 helpless, innocent villagers in Afghanistan.
The amphetamines as a group (mostly used to treat ADHD) were third in order of frequency of violence reports per prescription. The amphetamines include drugs such as Adderall and Dexedrine (pure amphetamines) and amphetamine-like drugs based on methylphenidate, such as Ritalin, Focalin and Concerta. While amphetamines as a group were third in the list of most likely to induce violence, overall the antidepressants were the most common offenders, with Prozac, Paxil, and Effexor near the top."
The 'Pros From Dover' took a kid with Sociopathic behaviors (39 police encounters) and turned him into a speed freak.
The math on that one shouldn't be hard for anyone to add up.
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Pulled from a Facebook post.
Gun deaths
There are 30,000 gun related deaths per year by firearms, and this number is not disputed. The U.S. population is 324,059,091 as of June 22, 2016. Do the math: 0.0000925% of the population dies from gun related actions each year. Statistically speaking, this is insignificant! What is never told, however, is a breakdown of those 30,000 deaths, to put them in perspective as compared to other causes of death:
• 65% of those deaths are by suicide, which would never be prevented by gun laws.
• 15% are by law enforcement in the line of duty and justified.
• 17% are through criminal activity, gang and drug related or mentally ill persons – better known as gun violence.
• 3% are accidental discharge deaths.
So technically, "gun violence" is not 30,000 annually, but drops to 5,100. Still too many? Now lets look at how those deaths spanned across the nation.
• 480 homicides (9.4%) were in Chicago
• 344 homicides (6.7%) were in Baltimore
• 333 homicides (6.5%) were in Detroit
• 119 homicides (2.3%) were in Washington D.C. (a 54% increase over prior years)
So basically, 25% of all gun crime happens in just 4 cities. All 4 of those cities have strict gun laws, so it is not the lack of law that is the root cause.
This basically leaves 3,825 for the entire rest of the nation, or about 75 deaths per state. That is an average because some States have much higher rates than others. For example, California had 1,169 and Alabama had 1.
Now, who has the strictest gun laws by far? California, of course, but understand, it is not guns causing this. It is a crime rate spawned by the number of criminal persons residing in those cities and states. So if all cities and states are not created equal, then there must be something other than the tool causing the gun deaths.
Are 5,100 deaths per year horrific? How about in comparison to other deaths? All death is sad and especially so when it is in the commission of a crime but that is the nature of crime. Robbery, death, rape, assault are all done by criminals. It is ludicrous to think that criminals will obey laws. That is why they are called criminals.
But what about other deaths each year?
• 40,000+ die from a drug overdose–THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR THAT!
• 36,000 people die per year from the flu, far exceeding the criminal gun deaths.
• 34,000 people die per year in traffic fatalities(exceeding gun deaths even if you include suicide).
Now it gets good:
• 200,000+ people die each year (and growing) from preventable medical errors. You are safer walking in the worst areas of Chicago than you are when you are in a hospital!
• 710,000 people die per year from heart disease. It’s time to stop the double cheeseburgers! So what is the point? If the liberal loons and the anti-gun movement focused their attention on heart disease, even a 10% decrease in cardiac deaths would save twice the number of lives annually of all gun-related deaths (including suicide, law enforcement, etc.). A 10% reduction in medical errors would be 66% of the total number of gun deaths or 4 times the number of criminal homicides ................ Simple, easily preventable 10% reductions! So you have to ask yourself, in the grand scheme of things, why the focus on guns? It's pretty simple:
Taking away guns gives control to governments. The founders of this nation knew that regardless of the form of government, those in power may become corrupt and seek to rule as the British did by trying to disarm the populace of the colonies. It is not difficult to understand that a disarmed populace is a controlled populace.
Thus, the second amendment was proudly and boldly included in the U.S. Constitution. It must be preserved at all costs. So the next time someone tries to tell you that gun control is about saving lives, look at these facts and remember these words from Noah Webster: "Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed."
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One of the most convincing studies of medication-induced violence was based on reports of violence to the FDA over a several year period.
And guess what they included in "violence"...
...ideation.
So if you thought you might want to kill someone, they counted it as a violent event. Nearly half of the "violent events" came from "homicidal ideation reports".
Yes, there's probably some activation risk from some of these medications that make people able to function again...because "functioning" sometimes includes acting out violence. But the immense good that they do for people far outweighs these events, just like with firearms.
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@Frank Cannon I was amazed also. There were no barriers whatsoever at the main entrance to the school.
When I went to a reunion at my former high school (in Oak Cliff, Dallas) I was a little shocked to see a guard desk and metal detectors at the entrance. This was several years ago. It seems like this would be a simple enough thing to do.
And completely useless. Years ago teaching at a rural school in New York State right after Columbine it was suggested that we put metal detectors at our school. I told them that the students would have no trouble getting around them. I told my Gifted and Talented class there assignment was to come with as many ways as possible to by-pass the metal detectors. They came up with about 7 different methods each or which would work.
Please keep in mind that prisoners have very little trouble getting all sorts of contraband into prisons.
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Certainly begs for questions. I couldn't walk into a 7/11 or anywhere really carrying a shotgun, a rifle, a pistol and ammo. So how did this guy walk into a school with all that gear? And not only did he enter the school, he made all the way to his classroom which means he was walking the hallways. Nobody saw anything unusual about this guy? Really? You can't fit a shotgun in a backpack.
Actually both pump and Semi-auto shotguns break down quite nicely and fit into any standard school bag.
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Since every one of these basket case shooters is a pathological narcissist 'born to kill' perhaps a more muscular approach is required.
Personally, I think the law should adapt a take no prisoners approach - totally ventilate the gun toting twerp on the scene in every case and prosecute as an accessory any news outlet that mentions his name.
Not very likely, I know.
I would also start holding parents/ guardians responsible both criminally and civilly for lawsuits, damages etc...
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Other students are saying the kid was bullied, even by coaches at the school. Was mocked for 'smelling bad'.
https://www.dailywire.com/news/30827/watch-student-says-shooter-was-picked-coaches-wore-ryan-saavedra?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=062316-news&utm_campaign=benshapiro (https://www.dailywire.com/news/30827/watch-student-says-shooter-was-picked-coaches-wore-ryan-saavedra?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=062316-news&utm_campaign=benshapiro)
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And guess what they included in "violence"...
...ideation.
So if you thought you might want to kill someone, they counted it as a violent event. Nearly half of the "violent events" came from "homicidal ideation reports".
Yes, there's probably some activation risk from some of these medications that make people able to function again...because "functioning" sometimes includes acting out violence. But the immense good that they do for people far outweighs these events, just like with firearms.
Don't take it personally @Suppressed, but what these drugs are good for is shit.
I can go on and on with study after study to make my point, but we need ask only 1 question of these drugs.
Just 1 question.
What have any of these drugs ever cured?
Answer? Absolutely nothing.
Not a single cure from any of this crap.
And the word Ideation is a Construct/Justification/Cliff Notes Abstract from the quacks who push them at street/hospital/clinic level.
The person being conned into swallowing these chemicals is having an 'Ideation' only in the Mind/Billing Paperwork of the aforementioned Quack.
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Don't take it personally @Suppressed, but what these drugs are good for is shit.
I can go on and on with study after study to make my point, but we need ask only 1 question of these drugs.
Just 1 question.
What have any of these drugs ever cured?
Answer? Absolutely nothing.
Not a single cure from any of this crap.
And the word Ideation is an Construct/Justification/Cliff Notes Abstract from the quacks who push them at street/hospital/clinic level.
The person being conned into swallowing these chemicals is having an 'Ideation' only in the Mind/Billing Paperwork of the aforementioned Quack.
When I was a young person in school - not all that long ago in the grand scheme of things - no one had ever heard of any of those drugs and everyone got along just fine for the most part. Don't recall ever hearing of a school shooting and every pickup in the parking lot had a rifle or shotgun in the gun rack.
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I can go on and on with study after study to make my point, but we need ask only 1 question of these drugs.
Just 1 question.
What have any of these drugs ever cured?
Answer? Absolutely nothing.
And you shouldn't take it personally, @To-Whose-Benefit? , but by saying that's the question, you show how narrow and wrong your focus is.
TREATMENT is important, even if there's no cure.
Tell me, has a wheelchair ever made a patient with no legs regrow them?
Has a painkiller ever regenerated a limb that was blown off?
Has a hearing aid ever restored auditory capacity?
By your twisted logic, they're all worthless.
I say they aren't.
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What have any of these drugs ever cured?
Answer? Absolutely nothing.
Not a single cure from any of this crap.
Sometimes, there's no 'cure' for a condition that's chronic, but certain medications can manage them.
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Sometimes, there's no 'cure' for a condition that's chronic, but certain medications can manage them.
That's very true but does it justify the wholesale use of them to manage behavioral problems instead of dealing with them the old fashioned way?
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That's very true but does it justify the wholesale use of them to manage behavioral problems instead of dealing with them the old fashioned way?
Locking them in the attic?
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Locking them in the attic?
No! Confronting the problem directly and dealing with it!
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No! Confronting the problem directly and dealing with it!
I agree with that, as far as it goes, but things like schizophrenia and bipolar disorder are beyond behavioral modification.
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That's very true but does it justify the wholesale use of them to manage behavioral problems instead of dealing with them the old fashioned way?
Of course not and these particular meds are probably prescribed too often, used as a crutch, and/or improperly taken by those that need them. However, that doesn't mean they're without value as an aid.
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Locking them in the attic?
No, in mental institutions where they can be managed away from society, until they die...away from society.
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No! Confronting the problem directly and dealing with it!
And losing a huge portion of the population that is now productive because of the use of more modern techniques. Ditch-diggers of the past holding professional positions today, resulting in far more economic output for themselves and the society -- not to mention their reduced internal torment.
We can put some blinders on and pine for that past, but it's forgetting that those old techniques didn't really fix everyone. We were just good at hiding the failures. Remember that back then, there was a lot of room for male drifters and female housewives who didn't need to worry as much about controlling some conditions.
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Of course not and these particular meds are probably prescribed too often, used as a crutch, and/or improperly taken by those that need them. However, that doesn't mean they're without value as an aid.
:thumbsup:
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Do we have any link or source yet to say if he was on something and what it was?
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I agree with that, as far as it goes, but things like schizophrenia and bipolar disorder are beyond behavioral modification.
Yes, they are.
Let's see the lab reports on people labeled schizophrenic or bipolar.
Let's have a look at those Brain Scans proving they're schizophrenic or bipolar.
http://psychrights.org/articles/GEJacksonMDBrainScanCuriousConsensus.pdf (http://psychrights.org/articles/GEJacksonMDBrainScanCuriousConsensus.pdf)
Since Physical Brain Scans are worthless, upsetting the functioning of that brain with drugs should be classified as criminally irresponsible at best.
And Before the Mods jump in to uphold the prevailing, widely disseminated misconceptions about those 'disorders' to imply that I'm thread jacking, I'm gonna take a deep breath and go do something, anything, else, since I've already taken great pains under this heading Numerous times here, and every time the subject comes up certain members come back with their memories wiped clean to start from scratch all over again.
Apparently the idiocy of turning a Sociopath (Nikolaus Cruz) into a speed freak isn't something anyone wants to address. Doesn't fit real well with the stance that he needed "Professional Help".
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Yes, they are.
Let's see the lab reports on people labeled schizophrenic or bipolar.
Let's have a look at those Brain Scans proving they're schizophrenic or bipolar.
http://psychrights.org/articles/GEJacksonMDBrainScanCuriousConsensus.pdf (http://psychrights.org/articles/GEJacksonMDBrainScanCuriousConsensus.pdf)
Since Physical Brain Scans are worthless, upsetting the functioning of that brain with drugs should be classified as criminally irresponsible at best.
And Before the Mods jump in to uphold the prevailing, widely disseminated misconceptions about those 'disorders' to imply that I'm thread jacking, I'm gonna take a deep breath and go do something, anything, else, since I've already taken great pains under this heading Numerous times here, and every time the subject comes up certain members come back with their memories wiped clean to start from scratch all over again.
Apparently the idiocy of turning a Sociopath (Nikolaus Cruz) into a speed freak isn't something anyone wants to address. Doesn't fit real well with the stance that he needed "Professional Help".
Good grief.
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I agree with that, as far as it goes, but things like schizophrenia and bipolar disorder are beyond behavioral modification.
@Sanguine, I love you dearly, but not all people with bipolar, schizophrenia or schizoaffective disorder are beyond behavior modification.
I give you the late John Nash for example and I can give you more. I'd rather have one of these illnesses than a personality disorder
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I'm studying psych right now for school, but @Victoria33 knows more than I do. I'm just gleaning from some textbooks here
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@Sanguine, I love you dearly, but not all people with bipolar, schizophrenia or schizoaffective disorder are beyond behavior modification.
I give you the late John Nash for example and I can give you more. I'd rather have one of these illnesses than a personality disorder
No, that's not what I meant. I was reacting to the poster who claims that all psychotropic drugs are evil, and it's a plot by big pharma, and that's what is causing this plague of shooting. I was only commenting that meds are appropriate and helpful - and sometimes necessary.
I love you too!
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Do we have any link or source yet to say if he was on something and what it was?
I don't think so. As in most of these incidents, where we have little to no information particularly early on, an environment is created for rumor and speculation.
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No, that's not what I meant. I was reacting to the poster who claims that all psychotropic drugs are evil, and it's a plot by big pharma, and that's what is causing this plague of shooting. I was only commenting that meds are appropriate and helpful - and sometimes necessary.
I love you too!
Over 10% of the population is on some sort of psychotropic medication1- usually antidepressants. If it really was a plot by big phrarma to cause shootings, we would be seeing a hell of a lot more of them. In reality, in spite of what it feels like watching the news, mass shootings like this are actually down 2. We just have a 24/7 news cycle with access to the entire world's news at the speed of light- so something like this that, 20 years ago, may have gotten 10 minutes on the national news or an hour on a local station, is bombarding us.
If this were the case that these drugs are the primary cause, we would be seeing a marked increase in shootings correlating to an increase in the use of these drugs.
1 https://psychcentral.com/news/2011/10/25/antidepressant-use-up-400-percent-in-us/30677.html
2 https://theintercept.com/2018/03/01/school-shooting-statistics-parkland-florida/
Now don't get me wrong, I think these things are way over-prescribed and they do have awful side-effects, but as people want some sort of easy outside answer to blame it on, sadly, this is more an effect of the overall human and society condition than it is some artificial chemical factor (or blaming the gun like the left does).
One side blames the gun, the other side blames drugs or video games- the reality is this was a major human failure.
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Of course not and these particular meds are probably prescribed too often, used as a crutch, and/or improperly taken by those that need them. However, that doesn't mean they're without value as an aid.
@edpc
I think we may be getting close to agreement here believe it or not.
So what do we do to prevent drugging those who really don't need to be drugged and are simply because their parents, teachers, and medical professionals are toodamned lazy to do what reall needs to be done?
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@edpc
I think we may be getting close to agreement here believe it or not.
So what do we do to prevent drugging those who really don't need to be drugged and are simply because their parents, teachers, and medical professionals are toodamned lazy to do what reall needs to be done?
The actual answer to that is a bit out of my realm. I think the first step has to be personal responsibility and ownership. For instance, I have a chronic condition called ankylosing spondylitis. If I just lived on handfuls of Celebrex, Vicodin, and Flexiril, I would get by, but not have much of a life. So, I have to stay active, watch what I eat, and do my therapeutic exercises.
I'm not trying to compare a sore back to mental illness, but those who have these conditions are going to have to want it, to manage it. Some of it is cultural. Everyone isn't a winner every day, not everyone is going to love or respect you, and nobody owes you anything. Shaking these false notions that have been incrementally foisted on us would be a good start.
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Over 10% of the population is on some sort of psychotropic medication1- usually antidepressants. If it really was a plot by big phrarma to cause shootings, we would be seeing a hell of a lot more of them. In reality, in spite of what it feels like watching the news, mass shootings like this are actually down 2. We just have a 24/7 news cycle with access to the entire world's news at the speed of light- so something like this that, 20 years ago, may have gotten 10 minutes on the national news or an hour on a local station, is bombarding us.
If this were the case that these drugs are the primary cause, we would be seeing a marked increase in shootings correlating to an increase in the use of these drugs.
1 https://psychcentral.com/news/2011/10/25/antidepressant-use-up-400-percent-in-us/30677.html
2 https://theintercept.com/2018/03/01/school-shooting-statistics-parkland-florida/
Now don't get me wrong, I think these things are way over-prescribed and they do have awful side-effects, but as people want some sort of easy outside answer to blame it on, sadly, this is more an effect of the overall human and society condition than it is some artificial chemical factor (or blaming the gun like the left does).
One side blames the gun, the other side blames drugs or video games- the reality is this was a major human failure.
I completely agree.
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Over 10% of the population is on some sort of psychotropic medication1- usually antidepressants. If it really was a plot by big phrarma to cause shootings, we would be seeing a hell of a lot more of them. In reality, in spite of what it feels like watching the news, mass shootings like this are actually down 2. We just have a 24/7 news cycle with access to the entire world's news at the speed of light- so something like this that, 20 years ago, may have gotten 10 minutes on the national news or an hour on a local station, is bombarding us.
If this were the case that these drugs are the primary cause, we would be seeing a marked increase in shootings correlating to an increase in the use of these drugs.
1 https://psychcentral.com/news/2011/10/25/antidepressant-use-up-400-percent-in-us/30677.html
2 https://theintercept.com/2018/03/01/school-shooting-statistics-parkland-florida/
Now don't get me wrong, I think these things are way over-prescribed and they do have awful side-effects, but as people want some sort of easy outside answer to blame it on, sadly, this is more an effect of the overall human and society condition than it is some artificial chemical factor (or blaming the gun like the left does).
One side blames the gun, the other side blames drugs or video games- the reality is this was a major human failure.
:amen:
The vast majority of those being prescribed some sort of psychotropic medication from a professional will live their whole lives without harming anyone. Including my own son who is on the autism spectrun. We defend gun owners by saying the same thing. The true culprit is no moral compass and no fear of being put in front of the Ultimate Judge. Then you have wanting fame at any cost, which these unpopular loaners are suscetable too.
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Breaking into the usual discussion on psychosis, psychology and so forth, I watched Senator Cruz say "evil has shown its face again"; I honestly think there might be something to that. Texas, a very Christian state, may be under an attack from evil. I've heard it said, Mexico has been under a demonic attack as well, I state that only to show another situation, not saying they are alike in this case.
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Puppies not Prozac!
(Sorrry. This story is so heartbreaking I really need a doggy or kitty hug)
Maybe these school shooters need the love of an animal to make them appreciate life. I get being s teenager sucks. I was bullied bad, too. I just had hope if I held on, it would get better once I left HS. ANd it did.
I often wonder if my dad had a gun, could I do that to my bully? No. Because murder is wrong, and he was a jerk. I didn't want to ruin my life by going to jail. And if you believe in karma, he eventually got his, though it didn't happen til he was in his 50s.
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I'm sure it was stated, guy got his dad's guns. Maybe we will see legislation to finally hold parents accountable though, it might be constitutionally challenged.
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I'm betting that there was an adult or some group involved in this attack. A coordinated attack like this, with explosives and small arms is not something a wacko 17 year old would usually do. Kids normally are impulsive and running on emotion. This was far from an 'impulse' attack. It was not emotional. It sounds more like a planned 'operation'.
This was meticulously planned likely for months in advance. I doubt the kid was the sole mastermind in setting all this up. Somebody or some group helped him, guided him, and sent him in there to do what he did.
Shotgun, rifle, multiple explosive devices? That's a lot of gear to lug along for a kid. I agree, this was likely planned well in advance.
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It's amazing. Many people who die from bacterial pneumonia in the hospital are being given antibiotics.
It's vitally important that when someone has a mental illness that we don't treat him!
It was discussed on another thread that when people taking antipsychotic meds start feeling better, they often stop taking the meds because they 'feel fine'. Some of these medications are at their worst for side effects when stopped without supervision.
Homicidal and suicidal ideation are well enough documented effects in some cases, and should be monitored for, but then, the patient who was feeling good won't seek medical help. .
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I'm sure it was stated, guy got his dad's guns. Maybe we will see legislation to finally hold parents accountable though, it might be constitutionally challenged.
He was 17, so it was not illegal for him to have access to his father's weapons.
Under Texas law, if a child under 17 years of age gains access to a readily dischargeable firearm (i.e., loaded with ammunition, whether or not a round is in the chamber), a person is criminally liable if he or she, “with criminal negligence:â€
http://lawcenter.giffords.org/child-access-prevention-in-texas/ (http://lawcenter.giffords.org/child-access-prevention-in-texas/)
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Some of you here would know the politics of this area better, but I doubt they're similar to Broward County, FL. Nevertheless, the Parkland folks are gearing up to pile on in the wake of this tragedy. Here's a sample of what you can expect.
! No longer available (http://youtube.com/watch?v=BL175T1YHOw#)
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:amen:
The vast majority of those being prescribed some sort of psychotropic medication from a professional will live their whole lives without harming anyone. Including my own son who is on the autism spectrun. We defend gun owners by saying the same thing. The true culprit is no moral compass and no fear of being put in front of the Ultimate Judge. Then you have wanting fame at any cost, which these unpopular loaners are suscetable too.
:thumbsup:
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At our local schools, there is only one door you can enter by, and you have to be buzzed in. I find it incomprehensible that in this day and age there would be an open, unattended door. If that was the case.
@Saguine
@mystery-ak
I heard Governor Abbott address this. He said there should be one way in and out. I expect all Texas schools will start that fast. This Santa Fe school had numerous unlocked doors in and out.
We have a family member who lives in Ohio and his daughter is graduating this year. This family member said there is one way in their high school with a guard who checks everyone going in. The students and teacher at Santa Fe would be alive if Santa Fe had been this way.
This is what I am sure has to happen to keep students safe - there is no way to take every gun in the state and smash it; therefore bad people can get a gun one way or another. That means the buildings have to be safe to stop this. Courthouses have guards to check everyone who goes into a courthouse. Do this with schools and the killing stops. All this yelling to get rid of guns won't work. Supervising entry to buildings does work.
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I heard Governor Abbott address this. He said there should be one way in and out.
I hope he really didn't mean that. You should have one secure entry and multiple one way door exits.
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We spend so much time talking about this, especially the HS shootings, I was just thinking of that topic and this forum this past Monday/Tuesday afternoon while out. I was thinking of how we had not had one, a real one, for a spell.
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Puppies not Prozac!
(Sorrry. This story is so heartbreaking I really need a doggy or kitty hug)
Maybe these school shooters need the love of an animal to make them appreciate life. I get being s teenager sucks. I was bullied bad, too. I just had hope if I held on, it would get better once I left HS. ANd it did.
I often wonder if my dad had a gun, could I do that to my bully? No. Because murder is wrong, and he was a jerk. I didn't want to ruin my life by going to jail. And if you believe in karma, he eventually got his, though it didn't happen til he was in his 50s.
Some of these school shooters torture and kill animals like Cruz at Parkland.
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I hope he really didn't mean that. You should have one secure entry and multiple one way door exits.
Absolutely!
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Absolutely!
Our guv should be able to get one "Trump-ism"
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Some of these school shooters torture and kill animals like Cruz at Parkland.
I'm looking at your avatar @austingirl and I'm going to cry,,
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@Saguine
@mystery-ak
I heard Governor Abbott address this. He said there should be one way in and out. I expect all Texas schools will start that fast. This Santa Fe school had numerous unlocked doors in and out.
We have a family member who lives in Ohio and his daughter is graduating this year. This family member said there is one way in their high school with a guard who checks everyone going in. The students and teacher at Santa Fe would be alive if Santa Fe had been this way.
This is what I am sure has to happen to keep students safe - there is no way to take every gun in the state and smash it; therefore bad people can get a gun one way or another. That means the buildings have to be safe to stop this. Courthouses have guards to check everyone who goes into a courthouse. Do this with schools and the killing stops. All this yelling to get rid of guns won't work. Supervising entry to buildings does work.
I adore you @Victoria33
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Breaking into the usual discussion on psychosis, psychology and so forth, I watched Senator Cruz say "evil has shown its face again"; I honestly think there might be something to that. Texas, a very Christian state, may be under an attack from evil. I've heard it said, Mexico has been under a demonic attack as well, I state that only to show another situation, not saying they are alike in this case.
For this "NT" I'd say, its not about partisan politics but the recognition of the evil that has pervaded itself throughout American culture and most recently in the form of the current occupant of the WH.
Part of this is the war on guns, I don't own a single weapon...... and I'd advise everyone not to.... :whistle:
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Breaking into the usual discussion on psychosis, psychology and so forth, I watched Senator Cruz say "evil has shown its face again"; I honestly think there might be something to that. Texas, a very Christian state, may be under an attack from evil. I've heard it said, Mexico has been under a demonic attack as well, I state that only to show another situation, not saying they are alike in this case.
The knee-jerk reaction to reject prayer (note the condolence statements from the Democrats, for example. All quite disturbingly omit any mention of prayer) is likely making it worse. Call it superstition, call it what you will, but rejecting God will invariably get you Satan.
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I hope he really didn't mean that. You should have one secure entry and multiple one way door exits.
@edpc
Abbott didn't mean to have less doors. There would be as many doors as there are now; the principle/asst. principal, other school officers can push a button and the doors are unlocked for people to get out. There are ways to automatically open all doors for emergency exit.
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I keep trying to understand why these kids are doing this. Reading this thread...I think it's a combination of things mentioned. I would like to sit them down before the EVENT and just tell them...you won't even remember these people in a couple of years.
Listening to the kids that were interviewed today...they all were calm. How crazy and sad is that.
I have always said my timing was lousy. But maybe not. Growing up I was never afraid to go to school, church, the movies the mall.
Our poor children. :0001:
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@edpc
Abbott didn't mean to have less doors. There would be as many doors as there are now; the principle/asst. principal, other school officers can push a button and the doors are unlocked for people to get out. There are ways to automatically open all doors for emergency exit.
There is also a fire safety consideration, there. Easy enough to make a door open from the inside, and not from the outside (without a key). Many fire doors have alarms, too.
My first High School was a 1200 student school, during race riots in MD, all but the front doors were chained and locked shut. If even one of the numerous bomb threats which were called in had been real, it could have been a slaughter, especially with multiple devices. Thankfully, they were primarily 'day off' devices, rather than explosives.
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No, that's not what I meant. I was reacting to the poster who claims that all psychotropic drugs are evil, and it's a plot by big pharma, and that's what is causing this plague of shooting. I was only commenting that meds are appropriate and helpful - and sometimes necessary.
I love you too!
Well, if we are voting for people's posts, I will vote for @Sanguine 's for always being even-keel and reasonable and heartfelt.
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I keep trying to understand why these kids are doing this. Reading this thread...I think it's a combination of things mentioned. I would like to sit them down before the EVENT and just tell them...you won't even remember these people in a couple of years.
Listening to the kids that were interviewed today...they all were calm. How crazy and sad is that.
I have always said my timing was lousy. But maybe not. Growing up I was never afraid to go to school, church, the movies the mall.
Our poor children. :0001:
We grew up in an age when murderers go the chair or the gas chamber. The very thought of randomly killing people outside a wartime context (and that not so random), was simply not present except in the sickest of minds.
But then, too, we prayed in school, and were familiar enough with pain from the occasional fistfight to express our grievances directly with those we had problems with--and even if we lost, we gained respect for facing up to those who gave us grief. There were standards of simple decency which made some acts unspeakable.
God, guts (facing the bully), self-respect, are off the table, and this mess is what is left.
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=.
God, guts (facing the bully), self-respect, are off the table, and this mess is what is left.
[/quote]
I agree...but I don't know if there is a way to fix it. Probably not, I fear.
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=.
God, guts (facing the bully), self-respect, are off the table, and this mess is what is left.
I agree...but I don't know if there is a way to fix it. Probably not, I fear.
Three generations now of welfare queens say you're exactly right.
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Well, if we are voting for people's posts, I will vote for @Sanguine 's for always being even-keel and reasonable and heartfelt.
Thank you, Tom. That was very nice of you.
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I would also start holding parents/ guardians responsible both criminally and civilly for lawsuits, damages etc...
yep, they are the closest to the obvious signs of mental disturbance, hence most responsible for not raising red flags.
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I hope he really didn't mean that. You should have one secure entry and multiple one way door exits.
Correct...too many "suggestions" are proffered in haste without much analysis in the wake of such tragedies.
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As I've often said the 2nd is not going away because of a SC decision but it will because of our kids killed in their schools.
The 2nd today, in our schools, is not taught as a means to protect the citizens from the government. The 2nd is seen by the kids as a means for the crazy kids they don't like to kill them coming to school l some morning with impunity.... I have a 12 year old daughter and a 10 going on 11 boy and every school shooting in their minds makes my view of the 2nd more irrelevant..
Back in the day, the crazies were institutionalized. Today we let them walk around and give them a few pills and say be nice. Until society is able to face up the fact that some people are a threat due to their mental status the copy cat killings will only increase.
The conundrum is that who says you are crazy..... Both the left and the right will protect their own..
At one time the electorate demanded honesty and "morality" in our leaders and I firmly believe that generation upon generation of failing to follow the basic biblical/common sense truths of life is one of reasons we are here today. Folks are basically herd animals, we like "our" team and in spite of our protests to contrary we all vote for the candidate that will give me the most for me..
I suspect the 2nd will manage to hang on for the last 20-30 years of my life because of the baby boomers but I have no doubt that for my kids it will be nothing but a distant memory
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We grew up in an age when murderers go the chair or the gas chamber. The very thought of randomly killing people outside a wartime context (and that not so random), was simply not present except in the sickest of minds. But then, too, we prayed in school, and were familiar enough with pain from the occasional fistfight to express our grievances directly with those we had problems with--and even if we lost, we gained respect for facing up to those who gave us grief. There were standards of simple decency which made some acts unspeakable. God, guts (facing the bully), self-respect, are off the table, and this mess is what is left.
@Smokin Joe
@Freya
I grew up years before you did; no one locked their car doors or house front doors in the daytime if you were home. There was prayer every day in school. People thought you were "weird" if you didn't go to church. By the time I was a sophomore in high school, I was the church pianist and in church four times a week - played piano Wednesday night, early Sunday morning pastor picked me up and we went to a radio station in Kilgore, TX, about 10 miles. I played him on the radio and off the radio. Then, it was back to church a few hours later for Sunday school and I played the piano for the regular church service; then back again that night for church again. The above is what most people did back then - went to church that much (except for the radio thing).
Now, church is talked about as if it is a disease - "You go to church?" The message of Jesus Christ is, "Love one another." That message is gone for most people. This present killer did not do that. If everyone loved, no one would be murdered. Take God away and you have Sodom and Gomorra - which is this country now - any behavior is okay. The killing is never going to stop and I think it will get worse and then worse again and then worse again. Christ is going to return one day and that will stop the killing of God's people.
You wouldn't leave your front door open so bad guys could walk in. No, if someone wants in, you don't open the door until you know it is okay for that person to come in. We have to do the same thing at schools - no one comes in until he/she is checked to be sure he/she is a good person.
What a shame so many million people in this country don't follow Christ's teaching - love one another.
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@Smokin Joe
@Freya
I grew up years before you did; no one locked their car doors or house front doors in the daytime if you were home. There was prayer every day in school. People thought you were "weird" if you didn't go to church. By the time I was a sophomore in high school, I was the church pianist and in church four times a week - played piano Wednesday night, early Sunday morning pastor picked me up and we went to a radio station in Kilgore, TX, about 10 miles. I played him on the radio and off the radio. Then, it was back to church a few hours later for Sunday school and I played the piano for the regular church service; then back again that night for church again. The above is what most people did back then - went to church that much (except for the radio thing).
Now, church is talked about as if it is a disease - "You go to church?" The message of Jesus Christ is, "Love one another." That message is gone for most people. This present killer did not do that. If everyone loved, no one would be murdered. Take God away and you have Sodom and Gomorra - which is this country now - any behavior is okay. The killing is never going to stop and I think it will get worse and then worse again and then worse again. Christ is going to return one day and that will stop the killing of God's people.
You wouldn't leave your front door open so bad guys could walk in. No, if someone wants in, you don't open the door until you know it is okay for that person to come in. We have to do the same thing at schools - no one comes in until he/she is checked to be sure he/she is a good person.
What a shame so many million people in this country don't follow Christ's teaching - love one another.
Those seeds of hatred were being sown while I was in High School, during the Vietnam War. I remember saying the Lord's Prayer in school, and the Pledge of Allegiance. When acknowledgement (if not worship) of The Almighty was kicked out of the schools, and loyalty to our Republic was, too, the vacuum would inevitably be filled by something less, as it has.
The Communists thought the State would be worshiped instead, and for some it is, but the majority seem to be wrapped up in more hedonistic pursuits. Either way, the damage to the Republic, and to our society remains evident.
Until some d@mned dipsh*t teevee producer thought it would be a great idea to advertise that the police in a boom town were overwhelmed with a series of nationally shown productions advertising the wonders of this area for the budding criminal, we didn't lock our doors, either. After those shows aired, crime here skyrocketed.
While the LEOs have caught up to the problem, we didn't need that crap.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_-0Hv08K4k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmFjIij1V60
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YgluF8VTWg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmcjx4oBnBk
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Interesting that the people at CNN noticed the Iron Cross and the hammer and sickle, but missed the pentacle on his facebook page, a clear Satanic symbol. (at 2:33 in the third video).
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They are speculating that this was done by a network of people. I agree with that. The reports are that explosives were planted in and around the building on campus. It is unlikely that the shooter could have done all of this by himself.
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They are speculating that this was done by a network of people. I agree with that. The reports are that explosives were planted in and around the building on campus. It is unlikely that the shooter could have done all of this by himself.
I agree. to do it alone would take both time and planning. The longer it takes, the more likely someone would find a device.
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They are speculating that this was done by a network of people. I agree with that. The reports are that explosives were planted in and around the building on campus. It is unlikely that the shooter could have done all of this by himself.
Did they ever confirm the reports of bombs?
If so, the gun control harpies need to shut up, and they need to do it yesterday.
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Texas Lt. Gov. Said Parents and Students Told Him To 'Arm Our Teachers' After Shooting
http://dailycaller.com/2018/05/18/dan-patrick-parents-students-arm-teachers/ (http://dailycaller.com/2018/05/18/dan-patrick-parents-students-arm-teachers/)
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I think it is human nature to ask "Why"?
Most of us feel that if we knew, we could stop future attacks, which is a reasonable assumption.
I read this piece in National Review, while not very comforting, it does offer an explanation.
www.nationalreview.com/corner/why-do-mass-shootings-happen-best-explanation/ (http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/why-do-mass-shootings-happen-best-explanation/)
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@mystery-ak @Mod1 or whoeverTF is on duty.
Freedom of Speech, my ass.
It's because of who won an election?
Yikes!
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Interesting that the people at CNN noticed the Iron Cross and the hammer and sickle, but missed the pentacle on his facebook page, a clear Satanic symbol. (at 2:33 in the third video).
Or the Cthlulu pin.
I don't think anyone's ever tried to paint that thing as a hero or anti-hero.
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Fixed @DCPatriot
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Fixed @DCPatriot
@TomSea @DCPatriot
Honestly curious, not looking to start a food fight. And let me preface by saying that I disagree with the assertion made in the last sentence of that post. But what established posting guideline did that violate that warranted removal?
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Fixed @DCPatriot
Thank you, sir! :patriot:
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Fixed @DCPatriot
What is this all about..
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Just a trivial observation but the shooter’s got those Paul McCartney, puppy dog eyes. Carry on...
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What is this all about..
...Alfie?
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...and the doo to match.
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What is this all about..
@TomSea
Inquiring minds want to know
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Did they ever confirm the reports of bombs?
One man on the TV last nite said the bombs were fakes.
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It seems @DCPatriot spotted a post that should have been deleted.
@Axeslinger @mystery-ak
This thread doesn't seem to be the place for such talk.
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One man on the TV last nite said the bombs were fakes.
On the report I saw the word used was inoperative. They were there and someone had to have put them there. Thank God they were inoperative.
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@TomSea @DCPatriot
Honestly curious, not looking to start a food fight. And let me preface by saying that I disagree with the assertion made in the last sentence of that post. But what established posting guideline did that violate that warranted removal?
Wow, all the post related to it are gone as well!
Wha...?
So 2 members didn't like a 3rd saying the the increasing violence can be laid at Trump's doorstep (paraphrasing).
Like you, I don't agree with that, but how did it attack another member?
I don't get it.
It was an opinion, but not an attack on a member.
Geez......
Did I wander into DU, where all thoughts contrary are now removed?
Hey, guys, I know, let's rewrite the history books and tear down statues!
Since it is forbidden to think differently now, lets all wear the same clothing so we can easily identify each other, as opposed to "those people".
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It seems @DCPatriot spotted a post that should have been deleted.
@Axeslinger @mystery-ak
This thread doesn't seem to be the place for such talk.
@mystery-ak @TomSea
Ok, but WHY did it need to be deleted. What was it in violation of?
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Wow, all the post related to it are gone as well!
Wha...?
So 2 members didn't like a 3rd saying the the increasing violence can be laid at Trump's doorstep (paraphrasing).
Like you, I don't agree with that, but how did it attack another member?
I don't get it.
It was an opinion, but not an attack on a member.
Geez......
Did I wander into DU, where all thoughts contrary are now removed?
Hey, guys, I know, let's rewrite the history books and tear down statues!
Since it is forbidden to think differently now, lets all wear the same clothing so we can easily identify each other, as opposed to "those people".
I have no idea what was said and removed..it is not in the deleted archives
@TomSea as MOD of this thread be careful what you remove..just because one member finds it disgusting doesn't make it so.
Edited to add....Wait a minute..Tom you are not the MOD on this Cat Machiavelli is..not up to you to remove anything on this thread
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Found the comment in the Archives...comment restored to this thread...it's just one man's opinion
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:whistle:
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bookmark
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For this "NT" I'd say, its not about partisan politics but the recognition of the evil that has pervaded itself throughout American culture and most recently in the form of the current occupant of the WH.
Part of this is the war on guns, I don't own a single weapon...... and I'd advise everyone not to.... :whistle:
We won't be hearing from @montanajoe for another month after the latest anti-Trump rant....total lack of class, to take shots, pot shots at the occupant of the White House, over a great tragedy a community has suffered.
@DCPatriot
I would suggest just scanning over the hate some of these NTs write. I learned that long ago. It would be improper to name others but they should be.
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Wow, all the post related to it are gone as well!
Wha...?
So 2 members didn't like a 3rd saying the the increasing violence can be laid at Trump's doorstep (paraphrasing).
Like you, I don't agree with that, but how did it attack another member?
I don't get it.
It was an opinion, but not an attack on a member.
Geez......
Did I wander into DU, where all thoughts contrary are now removed?
Hey, guys, I know, let's rewrite the history books and tear down statues!
Since it is forbidden to think differently now, lets all wear the same clothing so we can easily identify each other, as opposed to "those people".
@GrouchoTex
Wow, I just took @DCPatriot 's advice. I don't read MontanaJoe's screed, all of those who post hateful things per this administration, Victoria33, Roamer1, INVAR, TxRadioGuy, who am I leaving out? If you have the right to write what you did with your assumptions, then, maybe I have a right to write who use this forum to crap hate on others. Now does that judgement feel good? You gonna talk about "Ted Cruz living rent free in the minds of others"? Seems like you've done your duty to quell what others have said as well.
And I would not be so quick to condemn others.
Now, those are not attacks on members as well, MontanaJoe clearly singled, maybe even stalked someone, me, to post his filth on. So, yeah, maybe in a way, that was an attack. Is that his first post in months? Just gonna show who's boss? Maybe your statements defending Cruz likewise, by accusing others of having "Cruz living in their mind rent-free" is an attack on a member. It certainly brings the conversation down.
By the way, I will defend the hypocrisy when Ted Cruz says he supported and campaigned for Trump in 2016 and would be supportive in 2020 and even put it in my signature when these folks somehow support Ted Cruz, but spout all of this anti-adminstration stuff.
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@GrouchoTex
Wow, I just took @DCPatriot 's advice. I don't read MontanaJoe's screed, all of the Trump haters, Victoria33, Roamer1, INVAR, who am I leaving out, If you have the right to write what you did with your assumptions, then, maybe I have a right to write who use this forum to crap hate on others. Now does that judgement feel good? You gonna talk about "Ted Cruz living rent free in the minds of others"? Seems like you've done your duty to quell what others have said as well.
And I would not be so quick to condemn others.
Now, those are not attacks on members as well, MontanaJoe clearly singled, maybe even stalked someone, me, to post his filth on. So, yeah, maybe in a way, that was an attack. Is that his first post in months? Just gonna show who's boss? Maybe your statements defending Cruz likewise, by accusing others of having "Cruz living in their mind rent-free" is an attack on a member. It certainly brings the conversation down.
@TomSea
You are defending the indefensible.
You are defining censorship of opinion.
By removing an opinion, one that did not mention anyone by name or attack anyone, you are censoring a forum which is open to opinions, even if we don't happen to agree with them.
Why?
As for this:
"You gonna talk about "Ted Cruz living rent free in the minds of others"? Seems like you've done your duty to quell what others have said as well."
Show me where I then where I deleted the post that this comment was directed at, where I did my "duty to quell what others have said as well".
Face it, you got caught censoring members opinions, nothing more, nothing less.
Don't make this about me, it isn't.
It's about you.
Pretty chilling road we're going down, gang.
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@TomSea
Pretty chilling road we're going down, gang.
Yes it is and it needs to be stopped RFN!
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@TomSea
You are defending the indefensible.
You are defining censorship of opinion.
By removing an opinion, one that did not mention anyone by name or attack anyone, you are censoring a forum which is open to opinions, even if we don't happen to agree with them.
Why?
As for this:
"You gonna talk about "Ted Cruz living rent free in the minds of others"? Seems like you've done your duty to quell what others have said as well."
Show me where I then where I deleted the post that this comment was directed at, where I did my "duty to quell what others have said as well".
Face it, you got caught censoring members opinions, nothing more, nothing less.
Don't make this about me, it isn't.
It's about you.
Pretty chilling road we're going down, gang.
@GrouchoTex
Myst already got on Tom for removing posts in a category that he is not a Mod for, and restored comments that were deleted. Seems to me like the issue has been dealt with. I'm sure such a thing will not happen again, at least, if I were Tom I would make sure such a thing doesn't happen again. Right?
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And, keep the stupid, petty bickering off of threads that they don't belong on! Come on, Tom, you've called people on that repeatedly and then you go off with this crap?
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@GrouchoTex
Wow, I just took @DCPatriot 's advice. I don't read MontanaJoe's screed, all of those who post hateful things per this administration, Victoria33, Roamer1, INVAR, TxRadioGuy, who am I leaving out? If you have the right to write what you did with your assumptions, then, maybe I have a right to write who use this forum to crap hate on others. Now does that judgement feel good? You gonna talk about "Ted Cruz living rent free in the minds of others"? Seems like you've done your duty to quell what others have said as well.
And I would not be so quick to condemn others.
Now, those are not attacks on members as well, MontanaJoe clearly singled, maybe even stalked someone, me, to post his filth on. So, yeah, maybe in a way, that was an attack. Is that his first post in months? Just gonna show who's boss? Maybe your statements defending Cruz likewise, by accusing others of having "Cruz living in their mind rent-free" is an attack on a member. It certainly brings the conversation down.
By the way, I will defend the hypocrisy when Ted Cruz says he supported and campaigned for Trump in 2016 and would be supportive in 2020 and even put it in my signature when these folks somehow support Ted Cruz, but spout all of this anti-adminstration stuff.
The only advice you need in removing a post is mine...
You are not the Moderator of this Cat and should not be removing posts to begin with.
When members posts a lot of articles I change their status to TBR Contributor which gives them a few more powers which help them post those articles..it is not meant for removing posts all over the forum.
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@GrouchoTex
Myst already got on Tom for removing posts in a category that he is not a Mod for, and restored comments that were deleted. Seems to me like the issue has been dealt with. I'm sure such a thing will not happen again, at least, if I were Tom I would make sure such a thing doesn't happen again. Right?
True.
Fair enough.
It is not why I came on this thread to begin with.
Living not that far away from Santa Fe, I've been coming in looking for updates.
I'm getting a bit carried away with it all now.
@TomSea
Shake hands?
Truce?
:beer:
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The only advice you need in removing a post is mine...
You are not the Moderator of this Cat and should not be removing posts to begin with.
When members posts a lot of articles I change their status to TBR Contributor which gives them a few more powers which help them post those articles..it is not meant for removing posts all over the forum.
Thank you! 888high58888
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We won't be hearing from @montanajoe for another month after the latest anti-Trump rant....total lack of class, to take shots, pot shots at the occupant of the White House, over a great tragedy a community has suffered.
I would suggest just scanning over the hate some of these NTs write. I learned that long ago. It would be improper to name others but they should be.
Wow, I just took @DCPatriot 's advice. I don't read MontanaJoe's screed, all of those who post hateful things per this administration, Victoria33, Roamer1, INVAR, TxRadioGuy, who am I leaving out? ....Now does that judgement feel good? You gonna talk about "Ted Cruz living rent free in the minds of others"? Seems like you've done your duty to
Really? You banned Montanajoe for a MONTH over a comment he posted that you do not like because he criticized Trump???? You're gonna go and pull a Jimrob from TOS and turn this place into your private zot factory over comments and posts you do not like that criticize a president you worship?
If this is what TBR is now going to allow their mods to do - I'm out - which is what you Trump morons wanted to do anyway.
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Really? You banned Montanajoe for a MONTH over a comment he posted that you do not like because he criticized Trump???? You're gonna go and pull a Jimrob from TOS and turn this place into your private zot factory over comments and posts you do not like that criticize a president you worship?
If this is what TBR is now going to allow their mods to do - I'm out - which is what you Trump morons wanted to do anyway.
I think he just meant that MontanaJoe doesn't visit the forum frequently?
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Really? You banned Montanajoe for a MONTH over a comment he posted that you do not like because he criticized Trump???? You're gonna go and pull a Jimrob from TOS and turn this place into your private zot factory over comments and posts you do not like that criticize a president you worship?
He can't ban or timeout anyone...he is a Cat Mod not a forum Mod
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Please get this thread back on topic
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I think he just meant that MontanaJoe doesn't visit the forum frequently?
We won't be hearing from @montanajoe for another month after the latest anti-Trump rant....
That read like a ban from someone who was busy removing posts. He did not write 'we will probably not be hearing from....'
My bad if I assumed the former, but when he said he is taking DC Patriots 'advice' and then removing comments - how else would someone not familiar with mod powers on this board take that comment?
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He can't ban or timeout anyone...he is a Cat Mod not a forum Mod
Not familiar with the difference.
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Not familiar with the difference.
Cat Mod is someone who takes care of a particular Category like World News..has limited powers
Forum Mod, Mods the whole forum and has substantial powers.
I oversee all of them....
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The president is promising 'action'. I hope this doesn't mean what I think it does.
https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/nation-world/president-trump-promises-action-from-his-administration-after-texas-school-shooting/553571863?utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A+Trending+Content&utm_content=5b00442704d3010b5f78464f&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook (https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/nation-world/president-trump-promises-action-from-his-administration-after-texas-school-shooting/553571863?utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A+Trending+Content&utm_content=5b00442704d3010b5f78464f&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook)
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The president is promising 'action'. I hope this doesn't mean what I think it does.
https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/nation-world/president-trump-promises-action-from-his-administration-after-texas-school-shooting/553571863?utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A+Trending+Content&utm_content=5b00442704d3010b5f78464f&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook (https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/nation-world/president-trump-promises-action-from-his-administration-after-texas-school-shooting/553571863?utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A+Trending+Content&utm_content=5b00442704d3010b5f78464f&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook)
Like last time, it probably means some spectacularly stupid comments, possibly involving due process and forfeiture of assets.
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Like last time, it probably means some spectacularly stupid comments, possibly involving due process and forfeiture of assets.
Oh, man, I hope not.
I hope they learned from that last episode.
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The president is promising 'action'. I hope this doesn't mean what I think it does.
https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/nation-world/president-trump-promises-action-from-his-administration-after-texas-school-shooting/553571863?utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A+Trending+Content&utm_content=5b00442704d3010b5f78464f&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook (https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/nation-world/president-trump-promises-action-from-his-administration-after-texas-school-shooting/553571863?utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A+Trending+Content&utm_content=5b00442704d3010b5f78464f&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook)
let's hope it means an end to gun free zones and a path to qualified teachers being trained and armed. I am allowed to hope.... right......
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let's hope it means an end to gun free zones and a path to qualified teachers being trained and armed. I am allowed to hope.... right......
I'm with ya.
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Wow aren't folks sensitive...... :whistle: ....my little post seems to have caused all kinds of ruffled feathers..... :silly:
Just to clarify, the post was meant to express my opinion that voting for the lessor of two evils election cycle after election cycle can only lead to one conclusion...
I don't post here often because I actually have a busy life and reading the faux outrage that both the NT and AT's post over and over on a daily basis is quite boring, so don't worry snowflakes I'm unlikely to offend your gentle sensibilities for awhile...... 22222frying pan
As always major kudo's to myst @mystery-ak for maintaining the best forum on the web.... :beer:
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On the report I saw the word used was inoperative. They were there and someone had to have put them there. Thank God they were inoperative.
Galveston County Judge Mark Henry told reporters Pagourtzis attempted to use explosive devices but none were functional.
Henry said “there were CO2 (carbon dioxide) cannisters wrapped up with duct tape, but no way to detonate, and a pressure cooker with an alarm clock, and some nails but no explosive device.
Fake.
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Galveston County Judge Mark Henry told reporters Pagourtzis attempted to use explosive devices but none were functional.
Henry said “there were CO2 (carbon dioxide) cannisters wrapped up with duct tape, but no way to detonate, and a pressure cooker with an alarm clock, and some nails but no explosive device.
Fake.
Yes! But who put them there? Surely not the shooter.
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Yes! But who put them there? Surely not the shooter.
I hadn't heard the size. CO2 canisters go down to the size of the ones used in pellet pistols. He could have carried them in the pockets of that trench coat he wore.
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Yes! But who put them there? Surely not the shooter.
Why not?!?
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We won't be hearing from @montanajoe for another month after the latest anti-Trump rant....total lack of class, to take shots, pot shots at the occupant of the White House, over a great tragedy a community has suffered.
@DCPatriot
I would suggest just scanning over the hate some of these NTs write. I learned that long ago. It would be improper to name others but they should be.
Hmmmm.....and here, I just came back to apologize, after seeing @mystery-ak 's post/opinion.
Maybe it was the time of the day....the day of the week...what I ate...don't know.
I also apologize to you, @TomSea ... for getting you called on the carpet for 'seeing' what I saw.
Something totally out-of-place. Not only in THIS thread, but truthfully, any thread.
If a member cannot appreciate the efforts and results of the Trump Presidency to date.... and to tie him somehow to this senseless slaughter? 9999hair out0000
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Some minds will never change, DC. Like mine. You know the drill...Trump could shoot someone on 5th Ave and I would still worship him. :silly:
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If a member cannot appreciate the efforts and results of the Trump Presidency to date.... and to tie him somehow to this senseless slaughter? 9999hair out0000
That's funny, because I seem to recall plenty of Republicans and Conservatives who had zero problem with rightfully tying Obama to creating an atmosphere of hate and violence during events like Michael Brown and the Ferguson riots, the movie theater shootings and all the senseless cop killings - and laying the blame for those things at Obama's feet.
Somehow that formula does not apply to an atmosphere of incivility having been escalated simply because it's Trump?
That is yet another interesting double-standard for the Trump roster.
I think this board in itself for the past 18 months is a living testament to the fact that Trump and people like you who delight in "rubbing our faces in it daily" do nothing but stoke the atmosphere of incivility. Not that this had anything to do with motivating the nut job to go shoot up his school - but the idea that you would get all upset that someone would suggest that Trump has not done much to diffuse the time-bomb Obama rigged and activated among the populace is hilarious.
Trump could shoot someone on 5th Ave and I would still worship him.
At least now you slyly admit it, even though your posts have already photographed that truth.
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We are dealing with big generalizations here. In reality, this likely had zero to do with Trump, Obama, Bush, Clinton, or any other politician or political ideology. This was a fk'd up kid who, by some reports, was highly bullied- even by teachers and coaches, to the point he snapped. I doubt even the political environment of the past 2 or 10 years contributed to this. We've been sliding down hill for a long time in regards to how we treat each other, respect, and common civility. But when it comes down to it, the responsibility lays with the kid himself, and maybe to a small margin, with those who bullied him (if true, one could even say he was mentally tortured until he snapped depending on who was asked about his bullying).
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We are dealing with big generalizations here. In reality, this likely had zero to do with Trump, Obama, Bush, Clinton, or any other politician or political ideology.
Of course it was, but everything political now.
So get with the program and blame somebody for it besides the shooter.
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888high58888
Problem is hyped media attention gives some disturbed individuals sitting on the fence visions of glory, edging them closer to pulling the trigger. Maybe a media black out on naming the perp is in order.
@aligncare 888high58888
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Bullying and child abuse have been redefined so that a harmless teasing is now bullying and trying to correct your child's bad behavior is now child abuse. I don't know -- when I was a kid, I wasn't one of the popular kids and I was teased mercilessly. Didn't really affect me. I didn't run crying to my folks or to the teachers or administrators because my feelings were hurt. My parents didn't run to the school to demand action against the kid or kids who said an unkind word. I sucked it up, took it and maybe sometimes I gave it back to the tormentor. I turned out fine.
As for corporal punishment -- if it was necessary, my parents gave me a swat on the rear. Paddling was still allowed in school until I was in the sixth grade. IMHO, once paddling was outlawed, that was when kids started turning out as selfish, spoiled brats as adults. Now, if you even raise your voice at your child, he or she can turn you in to the authorities. Kids are already the property of the state. The parents have no control. And they wonder why the kids are turning into drug addicts, murderers and terrorists.
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Bullying and child abuse have been redefined so that a harmless teasing is now bullying and trying to correct your child's bad behavior is now child abuse. I don't know -- when I was a kid, I wasn't one of the popular kids and I was teased mercilessly. Didn't really affect me. I didn't run crying to my folks or to the teachers or administrators because my feelings were hurt. My parents didn't run to the school to demand action against the kid or kids who said an unkind word. I sucked it up, took it and maybe sometimes I gave it back to the tormentor. I turned out fine.
As for corporal punishment -- if it was necessary, my parents gave me a swat on the rear. Paddling was still allowed in school until I was in the sixth grade. IMHO, once paddling was outlawed, that was when kids started turning out as selfish, spoiled brats as adults. Now, if you even raise your voice at your child, he or she can turn you in to the authorities. Kids are already the property of the state. The parents have no control. And they wonder why the kids are turning into drug addicts, murderers and terrorists.
My wife and I are enjoying our 50th year of marriage and our youngest is now 45. We have no grandchildren and that has been the subject of much late night conversation these last few years. All I can figure out is that God is protecting us from what's coming.
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As for corporal punishment -- if it was necessary, my parents gave me a swat on the rear. Paddling was still allowed in school until I was in the sixth grade. IMHO, once paddling was outlawed, that was when kids started turning out as selfish, spoiled brats as adults. Now, if you even raise your voice at your child, he or she can turn you in to the authorities. Kids are already the property of the state. The parents have no control. And they wonder why the kids are turning into drug addicts, murderers and terrorists.
I say "spanking" and people think I am an abusive parent. Corporal Punishment sounds like something only a last minute phone call from the Governor can save you from. So the words I use, "Applying the Board of Education to the Seat of Knowledge."
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Educational materials are already prepared to help kids understand self-defense:
(https://i.redd.it/ajpz9i5zkhx01.jpg)
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I say "spanking" and people think I am an abusive parent. Corporal Punishment sounds like something only a last minute phone call from the Governor can save you from. So the words I use, "Applying the Board of Education to the Seat of Knowledge."
That is hilarious @NavyCanDo . And I will plagerize you in my private life. :laugh:
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Texas school shooter killed girl who turned down his advances and embarrassed him in class, her mother says
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-texas-shooter-20180519-story.html (http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-texas-shooter-20180519-story.html)
One of Pagourtzis' classmates who died in the attack, Shana Fisher, "had 4 months of problems from this boy," her mother, Sadie Rodriguez, wrote in a private message to the Los Angeles Times on Facebook. "He kept making advances on her and she repeatedly told him no."
Pagourtzis continued to get more aggressive, and she finally stood up to him and embarrassed him in class, Rodriguez said. "A week later he opens fire on everyone he didn't like," she wrote. "Shana being the first one." Rodriguez didn't say how she knew her daughter was the first victim.
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I skirt close to Santa Fe quite often, when I'm going down 2004.
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I skirt close to Santa Fe quite often, when I'm going down 2004.
@Elderberry
2004? You sound like a neighbor too.
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I say "spanking" and people think I am an abusive parent. Corporal Punishment sounds like something only a last minute phone call from the Governor can save you from. So the words I use, "Applying the Board of Education to the Seat of Knowledge."
LOL. I remember a teacher in elementary school who called the paddle the "Board of Education." A kid in my class named Jimmy had it applied regularly to his "seat." Jimmy turned out well though. Saw him not long ago, He is retired from a corporate executive position and is enjoying his new job as a grandfather.
Paddling is not child abuse. It's correction of bad behavior. Spoiled brats like David Hogg are a good reason to bring paddling back.
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LOL. I remember a teacher in elementary school who called the paddle the "Board of Education." A kid in my class named Jimmy had it applied regularly to his "seat." Jimmy turned out well though. Saw him not long ago, He is retired from a corporate executive position and is enjoying his new job as a grandfather.
Paddling is not child abuse. It's correction of bad behavior. Spoiled brats like David Hogg are a good reason to bring paddling back.
I grew up before ADD was invented thank God. I was as unruly as they come as a child and became very well acquainted with the board of education. Remained so for a long time but somehow managed to get through school, a tour of a foreign land in war time, married to the same great lady for 50+ years now and retired from a long and successful career. Many young people today will never have the opportunity to do that I greatly fear.
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This whole thing really has me sad. The first shooter as far as I know was in the early 80s, was a teenage girl and inspired the song "I don't like Mondays" by Sir Bob Geldorf.
I'm just guessing because I really haven't studied Sociology, but maybe the decline of the family like it was in the 50s contributed to this?
We need family values. People who value each other and don't view love as a one night stand. No more baby daddies.
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This whole thing really has me sad. The first shooter as far as I know was in the early 80s, was a teenage girl and inspired the song "I don't like Mondays" by Sir Bob Geldorf.
I'm just guessing because I really haven't studied Sociology, but maybe the decline of the family like it was in the 50s contributed to this?
We need family values. People who value each other and don't view love as a one night stand. No more baby daddies.
This kind of thing was exceedingly rare prior to 1964 and the advent of the "Great Society". Draw your own conclusions.
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2004? You sound like a neighbor too.
@AllThatJazzZ
I'm up at Hobby. I shoot down 2004 when I go down to the beach. Mostly 3AM or so when I go flounder gigging. I hadn't gone in a long while though.
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This kind of thing was exceedingly rare prior to 1964 and the advent of the "Great Society". Draw your own conclusions.
That's what I was trying to say. You said it more succinctly @Bigun
Thank you.
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That's what I was trying to say. You said it more succinctly @Bigun
Thank you.
888high58888
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If I'm reading this right, this wasn't a Newtown-style massacre, but a targeted killing, presaged by abusive obsession from the killer, who went postal in part because one particular person dared resist his advances.
I've always said that the public schools are a toxic social environment, and that they have no idea how to teach students how to socialize and cooperate with each other in a civilized manner. Clearly this kid never knew when to take no for an answer and move on. (Besides, what would make him think it was a good idea? "Hey, I know how I'm going to improve my lot in life! I'm going to slaughter everyone who wronged me and make myself a violent felon! Yeah, that's the ticket." Seriously, what did he think was going to happen? Maybe he thought he would take himself out, but really, did he think his situation was so hopeless that things wouldn't get better after high school?)
But please, teachers' unions, tell us all how it's all a conspiracy between the NRA and the Republican Party to slaughter children. *****rollingeyes*****
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Bullying and child abuse have been redefined so that a harmless teasing is now bullying and trying to correct your child's bad behavior is now child abuse.
As for corporal punishment -- if it was necessary, my parents gave me a swat on the rear. Paddling was still allowed in school until I was in the sixth grade. IMHO, once paddling was outlawed, that was when kids started turning out as selfish, spoiled brats as adults. Now, if you even raise your voice at your child, he or she can turn you in to the authorities. Kids are already the property of the state. The parents have no control. And they wonder why the kids are turning into drug addicts, murderers and terrorists.
@Applewood
@mystery-ak
I grew up in a time where paddling students was the norm. When I started to school my parents said if I got in trouble with a teacher, I would get double that when I got home.
Paddling was still the norm when my son was in elementary school. When he was in the 5th grade, son told me if he got sent to the principal for a paddling, he would say this before principal paddled him: "Forgive him for he knows not what he does."
That elementary school was one of several I was assigned to do psychological testing of students, if required. I called the principal and told him what son said. After he quit laughing, he said son would never be one sent to his office.
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If I'm reading this right, this wasn't a Newtown-style massacre, but a targeted killing, presaged by abusive obsession from the killer, who went postal in part because one particular person dared resist his advances.
I've always said that the public schools are a toxic social environment, and that they have no idea how to teach students how to socialize and cooperate with each other in a civilized manner. Clearly this kid never knew when to take no for an answer and move on. (Besides, what would make him think it was a good idea? "Hey, I know how I'm going to improve my lot in life! I'm going to slaughter everyone who wronged me and make myself a violent felon! Yeah, that's the ticket." Seriously, what did he think was going to happen? Maybe he thought he would take himself out, but really, did he think his situation was so hopeless that things wouldn't get better after high school?)
But please, teachers' unions, tell us all how it's all a conspiracy between the NRA and the Republican Party to slaughter children. *****rollingeyes*****
Good points. We don't teach children that rejection is a normal part of life and how to deal with it. It's the trophies for showing up stuff. You shouldn't get a trophy unless you did something to earn it. Not only do we not teach it, we actively seek to shield children from consequences of their actions and the vagaries of life. No surprise that this is what we get.
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@Applewood
@mystery-ak
I grew up in a time where paddling students was the norm. When I started to school my parents said if I got in trouble with a teacher, I would get double that when I got home.
I never had to experience paddling, but my Dad told me in his day, he too would get punished twice for wrongdoing -- once at school and again when he got home. In my grandfather's view, if the teacher or principal said you did wrong, then you did wrong. No denials. No excuses. He didn't run to school to complain about the teacher or principal as parents do today.
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For anyone who is interested in the mindset of young men like the Toronto killer, Elliot Rogers, and possibly this kid, the first twenty minutes are interviews with several "incels". Any opinions on whether most teens and twenty-somethings are this clueless?
It's the first segment of the program.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3cswr5j (https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3cswr5j)
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I grew up before ADD was invented thank God.
It was referred to as "Minimal Brain Dysfunction" back then.
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I never had to experience paddling, but my Dad told me in his day, he too would get punished twice for wrongdoing -- once at school and again when he got home. In my grandfather's view, if the teacher or principal said you did wrong, then you did wrong. No denials. No excuses. He didn't run to school to complain about the teacher or principal as parents do today.
about 12 years ago we tried to do an adoption of 3 siblings. I made it ear to their teachers that if the children got in trouble in school they would get worse when they got home. The second grade teacher was absolutely shocked by that and told me that he shouldn't be punished twice for the same offense. I told her that I promised not to tell her how to run her class, if she promised not to tell me how to raise my children. She seemed quite taken aback by that.
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This kind of thing was exceedingly rare prior to 1964 and the advent of the "Great Society". Draw your own conclusions.
@Bigun
@Freya
Let's go back a little earlier than '64...
Banned: "Almighty God, we acknowledge our dependence upon Thee, and beg Thy blessings upon us, our teachers, and our country."
Result: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1No--GpdqCY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1No--GpdqCY)
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I think it is human nature to ask "Why"?
Most of us feel that if we knew, we could stop future attacks, which is a reasonable assumption.
I read this piece in National Review, while not very comforting, it does offer an explanation.
www.nationalreview.com/corner/why-do-mass-shootings-happen-best-explanation/ (http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/why-do-mass-shootings-happen-best-explanation/)
Some whys will only be known when we meet our Maker.
Man cannot fathom all things.
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Some whys will only be known when we meet our Maker.
Man cannot fathom all things.
Violent video games played 10 hours per day? No corporal punishment in schools?
Please leave "our Maker" out of this one. :whistle:
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Good points. We don't teach children that rejection is a normal part of life and how to deal with it. It's the trophies for showing up stuff. You shouldn't get a trophy unless you did something to earn it. Not only do we not teach it, we actively seek to shield children from consequences of their actions and the vagaries of life. No surprise that this is what we get.
Seems to me that today's children are not taught how to deal with rejection, loss (e.g., not keeping score in sports) or death. They also are not taught that bad acts - theirs or anyone else's - have consequences. Parents don't punish because Junior won't "like" them if they take away his iPhone or some other toy. Parents are too busy trying to be a pal to their offspring. Schools can't punish because parents will file lawsuits.
Mr. M and I were talking about this on the drive home from vacation yesterday. Children really seem dumbfounded by the notion that there are consequences to their actions. I observed that they can't learn self-discipline if they never were disciplined by a parent (not just punishment for bad acts, but things like doing chores, getting up in time for school, etc.).
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Seems to me that today's children are not taught how to deal with rejection, loss (e.g., not keeping score in sports) or death. They also are not taught that bad acts - theirs or anyone else's - have consequences. Parents don't punish because Junior won't "like" them if they take away his iPhone or some other toy. Parents are too busy trying to be a pal to their offspring. Schools can't punish because parents will file lawsuits.
Mr. M and I were talking about this on the drive home from vacation yesterday. Children really seem dumbfounded by the notion that there are consequences to their actions. I observed that they can't learn self-discipline if they never were disciplined by a parent (not just punishment for bad acts, but things like doing chores, getting up in time for school, etc.).
There is a template now, that this kids follow, and it isn't good.
Think of a riot mentality.
You'd never break that store front window, unless someone else does it.
Maybe you hold out until the 10th or 100th does it, then, it's no big deal.
Everyone is doing it.
The clearest thing we have to a motive is that a girl rejected his advances.
This should not be an issue, but it became one for the shooter.
Now, these kids are killing over a perceived wrongs.
They can imagine that they are being wronged, or just make it up.
Now, having several examples of violence to choose from, they seek their revenge, whether the "wrong" was real or not.
Frightening.
How do we fix this?
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Seems to me that today's children are not taught how to deal with rejection, loss (e.g., not keeping score in sports) or death. They also are not taught that bad acts - theirs or anyone else's - have consequences. Parents don't punish because Junior won't "like" them if they take away his iPhone or some other toy. Parents are too busy trying to be a pal to their offspring. Schools can't punish because parents will file lawsuits.
Mr. M and I were talking about this on the drive home from vacation yesterday. Children really seem dumbfounded by the notion that there are consequences to their actions. I observed that they can't learn self-discipline if they never were disciplined by a parent (not just punishment for bad acts, but things like doing chores, getting up in time for school, etc.).
goopo
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Seems to me that today's children are not taught how to deal with rejection, loss (e.g., not keeping score in sports) or death. They also are not taught that bad acts - theirs or anyone else's - have consequences. Parents don't punish because Junior won't "like" them if they take away his iPhone or some other toy. Parents are too busy trying to be a pal to their offspring. Schools can't punish because parents will file lawsuits.
Mr. M and I were talking about this on the drive home from vacation yesterday. Children really seem dumbfounded by the notion that there are consequences to their actions. I observed that they can't learn self-discipline if they never were disciplined by a parent (not just punishment for bad acts, but things like doing chores, getting up in time for school, etc.).
The following is posted at the barn where my kids rodeo coach teaches:
(http://i68.tinypic.com/2w2j2ts.jpg)
It is an important lesson that too many kids don't know how to accept criticism and failure. They have to learn to take that in, then move forward in a positive manner. It isn't automatic but a learned response. It doesn't have to be sports but something they have to work to succeed is a life lesson everyone needs.
With that said, the Santa Fe shooter was on the JV football team. He played for more than a year on a football team. I don't know his home life but he has been exposed to dealing with criticism and failure.
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Seems to me that today's children are not taught how to deal with rejection, loss (e.g., not keeping score in sports) or death. They also are not taught that bad acts - theirs or anyone else's - have consequences. Parents don't punish because Junior won't "like" them if they take away his iPhone or some other toy. Parents are too busy trying to be a pal to their offspring. Schools can't punish because parents will file lawsuits.
Mr. M and I were talking about this on the drive home from vacation yesterday. Children really seem dumbfounded by the notion that there are consequences to their actions. I observed that they can't learn self-discipline if they never were disciplined by a parent (not just punishment for bad acts, but things like doing chores, getting up in time for school, etc.).
@mountaineer
Kids today aren't any different then kids from 20, 30, or 50 years ago. They are just as confused, awkward and prone to making stupid decisions as those way back when before the wheel was invented.
Whats different is families are weaker, morals are weaker, and kids (boys especially) aren't allowed to blow off steam. So they bottle it up until they break.
heck when I was in high school there was almost a school shooting. Only stopped by a girl who talked the guy out of it.
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With that said, the Santa Fe shooter was on the JV football team. He played for more than a year on a football team. I don't know his home life but he has been exposed to dealing with criticism and failure.
I agree with you that sports should have taught those lessons. According to some reports, however, the school's athletic coaches were among the worst at belittling this kid and calling him a loser. If true, it's outrageous that any teacher or coach would be so abusive.
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I agree with you that sports should have taught those lessons. According to some reports, however, the school's athletic coaches were among the worst at belittling this kid and calling him a loser. If true, it's outrageous that any teacher or coach would be so abusive.
While I've read some of those initial stories, I've read enough follow up with named, not anonymous, accounting that his treatment was normal along with everyone else.
He was a quiet kid and a bit of an outsider. The "goth like" black trenchcoat would attract some typical teenage comments, but not the continuous heaped on abuse some first claimed.
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While I've read some of those initial stories, I've read enough follow up with named, not anonymous, accounting that his treatment was normal along with everyone else.
He was a quiet kid and a bit of an outsider. The "goth like" black trenchcoat would attract some typical teenage comments, but not the continuous heaped on abuse some first claimed.
@thackney
IMO all the media attention is a factor. Kids see the other shooters getting on the news and getting all the attention and that triggers them.
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@thackney
IMO all the media attention is a factor. Kids see the other shooters getting on the news and getting all the attention and that triggers them.
I believe that is true.
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@mountaineer
Kids today aren't any different then kids from 20, 30, or 50 years ago. They are just as confused, awkward and prone to making stupid decisions as those way back when before the wheel was invented.
Whats different is families are weaker, morals are weaker, and kids (boys especially) aren't allowed to blow off steam. So they bottle it up until they break.
heck when I was in high school there was almost a school shooting. Only stopped by a girl who talked the guy out of it.
What's different is that every time something like this happens, we get wall-to-wall 24/7 news coverage. In the past, the news usually didn't make it past the local market, and we didn't hear about it.
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What's different is that every time something like this happens, we get wall-to-wall 24/7 news coverage. In the past, the news usually didn't make it past the local market, and we didn't hear about it.
True, and I think this plays a big role in why they are continuing, the "fame" factor.
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The following is posted at the barn where my kids rodeo coach teaches:
(http://i68.tinypic.com/2w2j2ts.jpg)
It is an important lesson that too many kids don't know how to accept criticism and failure. They have to learn to take that in, then move forward in a positive manner. It isn't automatic but a learned response. It doesn't have to be sports but something they have to work to succeed is a life lesson everyone needs.
@thackney
An important point I think that is too often overlooked is that if you don't learn what you are NOT good at as a kid,how the HELL will you ever come to understand what you might be good at doing so you can plan for a career in a field where you can do well?
If there ain't no down,there ain't no up.
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What's different is that every time something like this happens, we get wall-to-wall 24/7 news coverage. In the past, the news usually didn't make it past the local market, and we didn't hear about it.
Do you really expect these things to get brushed under the rug, though? Nobody wants this happening to our children. To an extent, we have to get the word out that there is evil in this world and try to discover the triggers that cause it, so that they might be prevented in the future.
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Violent video games played 10 hours per day? No corporal punishment in schools?
Please leave "our Maker" out of this one. :whistle:
The intermediary means of grievance settling have been taken out of play. It's either namby pamby words or the nuclear option. A simple punch in the mouth, a fat lip, a bloody nose settled many such conflicts before they developed into some wide eyed psycho looking for a body count. Even if the fight was lost, respect, for standing up for yourself was gained. Now, the participants get expelled, and the only social dominance sorted out is that the school rules all. That doesn't settle pack issues among the kids. While going to a counselor and yakking it up about feelings may work for some, even that must be approached with care or the kid gets a load of dreck in their jacket and no satisfaction.
When the playground was a little more primal, there were means to release pressure, to blow off steam, even if it was just tackling someone hard playing tag or nailing them with a dodge ball.
Now, the pressure builds and some, inevitably, will crack.
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Please leave "our Maker" out of this one.
Leaving "Our Maker" out, is precisely how and why we have ended up here as a society to begin with.
Get used to more and worse as time goes by.
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@mountaineer
Kids today aren't any different then kids from 20, 30, or 50 years ago. They are just as confused, awkward and prone to making stupid decisions as those way back when before the wheel was invented.
Whats different is families are weaker, morals are weaker, and kids (boys especially) aren't allowed to blow off steam. So they bottle it up until they break.
heck when I was in high school there was almost a school shooting. Only stopped by a girl who talked the guy out of it.
The same basic issues apply: status, girls/boys, social jockeying for the top of that heap, or at least being accepted by a group of peers. Hard to be moral when the popular "music" can be measured in f-bombs per minute, when the parents are home watching what would have been considered porn 40 years ago in prime time, and that 'ends justify the means' situational ethics has become the dominant theme.
Moral kids have an easier go if their parents are moral, but that is no guarantee.
As for consequences, every high school yearbook had at least one memorial page for some kid who had been killed doing something stupid or by someone who was. By graduation, between 5% and 10% of the class were volunteer firemen (myself included) so we saw first hand the effects of bad decisions.
Somewhere in the quest for little boys who would sit with their knees together, legs crossed at the ankles, hands folded in their laps (like little girls were supposed to), we've had to deal with the highly probable overmedication of a couple generations for ADD and ADHD, disciplinary constraints and 'talk about it' counselors instead of getting the matter settled, once and for all, as young men (and boys) have settled such matters for millennia. I'm not saying violence is always the answer, but there are times when limited violent acts instill the following: That actions (even words) have consequences. That pain can be the result. That standing up for what is right, even if painful, even if you lose the fight, is still the right thing and a source of satisfaction in itself. That going along to get along is not the best philosophy if the going along is with something wrong.
I have, in my school days, lost the fight but won the war. That happens. I have won my share, too, and the idea that the strong can stand up for the weak, can face down the bullies for those who can't so much fight their own fights is seen in every comic book, but not in our schools (unless the 'strong' is on staff.
We deprive our children from acting heroically, from fighting the good fight against aggressors and tormentors, we stop them from keeping their self-respect, and from defending the weak, things some guys instinctively do.
How can that possibly have a good outcome?
At some point, even without psychological problems, the pressure of constant derision, of rejection, of the inability to even try to establish status in the pack will make the kid go rogue and turn on the whole structure.
Just watch dogs, they are more human than humans sometimes.
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I noticed that as soon as this shooter's name was revealed, some commenters (NOT HERE!) began speculating about where he came from. Was his name Muslim? Etc., etc., etc. More than one person commented that "he didn't sound like he came from here."
His family is first generation immigrant. His mother is very religious; both parents seem very "traditional".
Santa Fe is a very conservative town, almost entirely white.
Santa Fe population: 18,000 Greek: .52%. It appears his family was the only Greek family in the town.
Galveston population: 59,000 Greek: .38%. Still a pretty small group of people. There are two Orthodox churches in Galveston, one Greek and one Serbian. Here's a list of Orthodox churches in the Houston area.
I can imagine this kid stuck out like a sore thumb for many reasons. For some of his peers, the name would have sounded foreign. His church was different from theirs. In fact, I can think of a zillion ways to turn "Pa-GOR-cheese" into a nasty nickname. He was involved in Greek dancing -- I can imagine some kids saying, "How gay!" His parents' expectations of teen culture and behavioral norms were probably a bit skewed from those of his peers.
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I noticed that as soon as this shooter's name was revealed, some commenters (NOT HERE!) began speculating about where he came from. Was his name Muslim? Etc., etc., etc. More than one person commented that "he didn't sound like he came from here."
His family is first generation immigrant. His mother is very religious; both parents seem very "traditional".
Santa Fe is a very conservative town, almost entirely white.
Santa Fe population: 18,000 Greek: .52%. It appears his family was the only Greek family in the town.
Galveston population: 59,000 Greek: .38%. Still a pretty small group of people. There are two Orthodox churches in Galveston, one Greek and one Serbian. Here's a list of Orthodox churches in the Houston area.
I can imagine this kid stuck out like a sore thumb for many reasons. For some of his peers, the name would have sounded foreign. His church was different from theirs. In fact, I can think of a zillion ways to turn "Pa-GOR-cheese" into a nasty nickname. He was involved in Greek dancing -- I can imagine some kids saying, "How gay!" His parents' expectations of teen culture and behavioral norms were probably a bit skewed from those of his peers.
Funny thing about emphasizing 'diversity' is that it often diminishes the things we all have in common.
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Santa Fe population: 18,000 Greek: .52%. It appears his family was the only Greek family in the town.
Do you think there are 93 people in his family?
I can imagine this kid stuck out like a sore thumb for many reasons.
No, I don't agree.
(https://media.nbcsandiego.com/images/652*367/Dimitrios-Pagourtzis-Santa-Fe-High-School.jpg)
I live about 20 miles away. Aside from the trenchcoat he usually wore, what I've read about him and was described by others says he wouldn't stand out at all.
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The intermediary means of grievance settling have been taken out of play. It's either namby pamby words or the nuclear option. A simple punch in the mouth, a fat lip, a bloody nose settled many such conflicts before they developed into some wide eyed psycho looking for a body count. Even if the fight was lost, respect, for standing up for yourself was gained. Now, the participants get expelled, and the only social dominance sorted out is that the school rules all. That doesn't settle pack issues among the kids. While going to a counselor and yakking it up about feelings may work for some, even that must be approached with care or the kid gets a load of dreck in their jacket and no satisfaction.
When the playground was a little more primal, there were means to release pressure, to blow off steam, even if it was just tackling someone hard playing tag or nailing them with a dodge ball.
Now, the pressure builds and some, inevitably, will crack.
Interesting take, @Smokin Joe !
Eliminating 'Dodge Ball' during recess is the culprit! :laugh:
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Interesting take, @Smokin Joe !
Eliminating 'Dodge Ball' during recess is the culprit! :laugh:
We called it "murder ball". There were some impressive arms in our class. But it was a means to take out aggressions in a limited fashion, and to target specific individuals in doing so. More subtle and less certain than a poke in the snout, but gratifying, nonetheless.
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Do you think there are 93 people in his family?
No, I don't agree.
(https://media.nbcsandiego.com/images/652*367/Dimitrios-Pagourtzis-Santa-Fe-High-School.jpg)
I live about 20 miles away. Aside from the trenchcoat he usually wore, what I've read about him and was described by others says he wouldn't stand out at all.
@thackney Thank you for responding! I was hoping you all in the area would have more info -- All I have is internet research ;). You're right about the numbers; I accidentally added a 0 ;(.
I'm really glad I'm wrong -- I was so shocked to see people really focused on his name and ethnicity. So his family's culture wouldn't have been considered unusual?
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What's different is that every time something like this happens, we get wall-to-wall 24/7 news coverage. In the past, the news usually didn't make it past the local market, and we didn't hear about it.
That, and today the media act like firearms are some mysterious evil entity, possessed of supernatural powers all by themselves. The mass stabbing a kid carried out at Franklin Regional H.S. near Pittsburgh a few years ago got a tiny fraction of the coverage of the average near-a-school shooting of one or two people.
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@thackney Thank you for responding! I was hoping you all in the area would have more info -- All I have is internet research ;). You're right about the numbers; I accidentally added a 0 ;(.
I'm really glad I'm wrong -- I was so shocked to see people really focused on his name and ethnicity. So his family's culture wouldn't have been considered unusual?
@LauraTXNM
This is the greater Houston area, a major international city with nearly every ethnicity around. So while Santa Fe and my little Rosharon are not urban areas, we are not that far from it. We do end up interacting with all types in our lives. It isn't the sheltered area like where I grew up in Rural Ohio.
From what I've read and heard through my kids, it isn't like he went around dancing at weddings all the time breaking plates. I don't think his "culture" would have been a major identifying aspect.
While a Greek church group isn't going to be as common as the Baptists or even the Methodists or Catholics, they have quite a few in the area.
https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1GGRV_enUS751US751&tbm=lcl&ei=a2EEW8nNMMT0swXbj4n4Dg&q=greek+church&oq=greek+church&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i7i30k1j0i20i264k1j0j0i20i264k1j0i7i30k1l6.5883.5883.0.6605.1.1.0.0.0.0.92.92.1.1.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.1.91....0.Gu_FfnIuaSQ#rlfi=hd:;si:,29.31144994569747,-94.35872138444518;mv: (https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1GGRV_enUS751US751&tbm=lcl&ei=a2EEW8nNMMT0swXbj4n4Dg&q=greek+church&oq=greek+church&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i7i30k1j0i20i264k1j0j0i20i264k1j0i7i30k1l6.5883.5883.0.6605.1.1.0.0.0.0.92.92.1.1.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.1.91....0.Gu_FfnIuaSQ#rlfi=hd:;si:,29.31144994569747,-94.35872138444518;mv:)!1m3!1d479237.52379180404!2d-95.14699579183196!3d29.738071482285815!3m2!1i744!2i415!4f13.1
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We called it "murder ball". There were some impressive arms in our class. But it was a means to take out aggressions in a limited fashion, and to target specific individuals in doing so. More subtle and less certain than a poke in the snout, but gratifying, nonetheless.
Dodge Ball was my favorite sport! What was "murder ball" was playing dodge ball with basketballs.
My senior year I would only suit up in gym on rainy days, because we'd play dodge ball. On all other days I'd skip out of class and drive over to the Taco Bell for lunch.
I ended up having to take a gym final to bring up my gym grade so I could graduate.
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Dodge Ball was my favorite sport! What was "murder ball" was playing dodge ball with basketballs.
My senior year I would only suit up in gym on rainy days, because we'd play dodge ball. On all other days I'd skip out of class and drive over to the Taco Bell for lunch.
I ended up having to take a gym final to bring up my gym grade so I could graduate.
@Elderberry Have you tried dodge ball on trampolines? It's huge out here ;) and so much fun ;)! The nets help me avoid breaking a hip ;).
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Kids today aren't any different then kids from 20, 30, or 50 years ago. They are just as confused, awkward and prone to making stupid decisions as those way back when before the wheel was invented.
Maybe, but they sure do seem a lot more convinced of their own significance: WATCH: Five-Year-Old Girl Finds Out She Wasn’t Invited To The Royal Wedding, Bursts Into Tears. 'What, am I not a real princess?' she asks her mom. (http://thefederalist.com/2018/05/22/girl-bursts-into-tears-because-she-wasnt-invited-to-the-royal-wedding/) :silly:
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Violent video games played 10 hours per day? No corporal punishment in schools?
Please leave "our Maker" out of this one. :whistle:
you can try to leave him out, but you will fail miserably as that is an unwise decision to make in any case, at any time.
It is wiser to do a 180 degree to your advice and include him even more.
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you can try to leave him out, but you will fail miserably as that is an unwise decision to make in any case, at any time.
It is wiser to do a 180 degree to your advice and include him even more.
I only meant it in the context of the post to which I replied.
Have said repeatedly that taking God out of the schools and the public square (war on Christmas), at a young age is necessary to achieve their goal. That there is only the State.
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I only meant it in the context of the post to which I replied.
Have said repeatedly that taking God out of the schools and the public square (war on Christmas), at a young age is necessary to achieve their goal. That there is only the State.
@DCPatriot
Say WHAT? Ever heard of a place named "The Vatican"? They even send Ambassadors all over the world.
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@DCPatriot
Say WHAT? Ever heard of a place named "The Vatican"? They even send Ambassadors all over the world.
??? @sneakypete
Perhaps you didn't understand my post? ^-^
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Are there members on this thread that believe there's no difference between a 10 year-old child raised on video games such as Teenage Ninja Turtles...than one spending the same hours playing Call of Duty? :thud:
...garbage in, garbage out.
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??? @sneakypete
Perhaps you didn't understand my post? ^-^
@DCPatriot
The Catholic Church is a government,and the Vatican is their version of a State Department. Church officials have diplomatic status when they travel,and when they are at their headquarters in every nation. In effect,every Catholic Church is an embassy and Priests have the authority to deny entry to local officials.
There may be other religious sects with these powers,but I am unaware of them.
I KNOW there would be a huge stink if cops or feds raided a US Mosque,but I think that is due to PC nonsense,not legalities.
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Leaving "Our Maker" out, is precisely how and why we have ended up here as a society to begin with.
Get used to more and worse as time goes by.
@INVAR
You're 100% correct, of course, but no one seems to want to acknowledge it. This is why we will continue on this path of destruction. I believe the downward spiral will gather speed, and in a few short years, there will be very few things recognizable from the America we once knew. We can get glimpses from old movies, but those will be like life on another planet for upcoming generations.
Praying for revival. :0001:
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@INVAR
You're 100% correct, of course, but no one seems to want to acknowledge it. This is why we will continue on this path of destruction. I believe the downward spiral will gather speed, and in a few short years, there will be very few things recognizable from the America we once knew. We can get glimpses from old movies, but those will be like life on another planet for upcoming generations.
Praying for revival. :0001:
When the churches themselves refuse to even discuss the subject of repentance and are embracing things like Chrislam and homosexuality - I am not holding out much hope for 'Revival'.
Besides, it is man's nature to love his own ideas and passions and hate God - especially in institutions of men that claim God for themselves.
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??? @sneakypete
Perhaps you didn't understand my post? ^-^
@DCPatriot
Not only possible,but seems to be likely. So,what were you saying that I misunderstood? Dumb it down a little for me,please.
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Leaving "Our Maker" out, is precisely how and why we have ended up here as a society to begin with.
@INVAR
What factory produced you?
Do you have a unique serial number? If so,where is it located?
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I noticed that as soon as this shooter's name was revealed, some commenters (NOT HERE!) began speculating about where he came from. Was his name Muslim? Etc., etc., etc. More than one person commented that "he didn't sound like he came from here."
His family is first generation immigrant. His mother is very religious; both parents seem very "traditional".
Santa Fe is a very conservative town, almost entirely white.
@LauraTXNM
Serious question. Are Greeks considered to be white? I ask this because I don't know,and I'm half-greek myself. Dark complexion,and black eyes.
Not that I really care,I'm just curious.
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Do you think there are 93 people in his family?
No, I don't agree.
(https://media.nbcsandiego.com/images/652*367/Dimitrios-Pagourtzis-Santa-Fe-High-School.jpg)
@thackney
I agree. He just looks like a typical pudgy geek-boy to me. High School being High School,there is no real surprise about him having a tough time getting a date. There is not a more superficial atmosphere anywhere else in the entire world.
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Are there members on this thread that believe there's no difference between a 10 year-old child raised on video games such as Teenage Ninja Turtles...than one spending the same hours playing Call of Duty? :thud:
...garbage in, garbage out.
@DCPatriot
Maybe kids that play Ninga Turtles want to kill themselves for being hopeless dweebs,and kids that play Call to Duty want to kill everybody else?
Seems like we need some sort of middle-ground there.
BTW,the only people I know personally that play games like Call of Duty are a couple of cops in the 40's and 50's.
BTW,in the spirit of confession,I used to LOVE to play DOOM,Descent, and Heretic "back in the day",but that was fighting monsters. Whoever it was that recorded with Witch's voice and laugh when you discovered her had the whole "evil voice" think down PAT! It would literally make the hair on the back of my neck standup.
Had to give them up one day when it occurred to me that things like real food,sleep,and taking showers were kinda important,too.
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@INVAR
Besides, it is man's nature to love his own ideas and passions and hate God - especially in institutions of men that claim God for themselves.
I agree. Mankind, in its arrogance, has been attempting to define and mold the Creator since the beginning of time.
When the churches themselves refuse to even discuss the subject of repentance and are embracing things like Chrislam and homosexuality - I am not holding out much hope for 'Revival'.
No argument from me that too much of the body of Christ has traded the purity of the Word of God for a "more palatable" message. That's no excuse for becoming jaded. All that's needed is a remnant.
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@LauraTXNM
Serious question. Are Greeks considered to be white? I ask this because I don't know,and I'm half-greek myself. Dark complexion,and black eyes.
Not that I really care,I'm just curious.
Hey there, @sneakypete! As far as I know, white is basically European or Hispanic, which right there seems like a huge overgeneralization ;).
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@LauraTXNM
Serious question. Are Greeks considered to be white? I ask this because I don't know,and I'm half-greek myself. Dark complexion,and black eyes.
Not that I really care,I'm just curious.
According to Louis CK, no.
! No longer available (http://youtube.com/watch?v=Xg7dpShGbFg#)
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Hey there, @sneakypete! As far as I know, white is basically European or Hispanic, which right there seems like a huge overgeneralization ;).
@LauraTXNM
Well,the original "Hispanics" were from Spain,and looked nothing like the people sneaking across our borders. In FACT,they enslaved and murdered the hell out of the people who call themselves Hispanic today. It's kinda like Jews calling themselves Aryans. I just don't get it. Are they ashamed of having Native American blood?
BTW,my grandmother was a full-blooded Tuscarora. Grandad was of Scottish descent,and after looking at the photo of granny that I have,Obviously a drinking man. Not to mention a man with a sailing ship that went to "de islands,man" during Prohibition often enough to attract the attention of the local pols that didn't like competition because one afternoon a cop in uniform came to the door and told granny her mother was sick and dying,and that she and the children needed to catch a bus to the state where she lived. That night grandad was shot in the back of the head with a 38 revolver as he sat alone at the dinner table,eating dinner. The local PD was reported by the paper to say they knew nothing about it and no cop came to the door,but granny was neither stupid nor blind,and she clearly saw the city police car and the police sgt in uniform that came to the door.
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According to Louis CK, no.
! No longer available (http://youtube.com/watch?v=Xg7dpShGbFg#)
@edpc
I can live with that. I pretty much don't care,either. I mostly dislike and mistrust everybody I meet until they prove to me they can be trusted,regardless of skin color,religion,or native language.
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@edpc
I can live with that. I pretty much don't care,either. I mostly dislike and mistrust everybody I meet until they prove to me they can be trusted,regardless of skin color,religion,or native language.
No argument from me.
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@edpc
I can live with that. I pretty much don't care,either. I mostly dislike and mistrust everybody I meet until they prove to me they can be trusted,regardless of skin color,religion,or native language.
It's interesting the history of the notion of "whiteness."
If you read Benjamin Franklin's work, he didn't even consider Germans to be "white," since he believed their worldview was incompatible with the American ideal. (The large German community in Pennsylvania didn't take kindly to Franklin suggesting that, either.)
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Good news update, y'all...
Update on Santa Fe ISD Police Officer John Barnes, who was seriously wounded and nearly killed while confronting a school shooter: https://www.houstonchronicle.com/neighborhood/galveston/articleComments/Officer-injured-during-Santa-Fe-High-School-12974315.php (https://www.houstonchronicle.com/neighborhood/galveston/articleComments/Officer-injured-during-Santa-Fe-High-School-12974315.php)
He has a challenging recovery ahead of him and still needs prayer, but since it appeared for quite a while that he wasn't going to survive, this is excellent news!
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Good news update, y'all...
Update on Santa Fe ISD Police Officer John Barnes, who was seriously wounded and nearly killed while confronting a school shooter: https://www.houstonchronicle.com/neighborhood/galveston/articleComments/Officer-injured-during-Santa-Fe-High-School-12974315.php (https://www.houstonchronicle.com/neighborhood/galveston/articleComments/Officer-injured-during-Santa-Fe-High-School-12974315.php)
Thanks for that GREAT update, @AllThatJazzZ !
He has a challenging recovery ahead of him and still needs prayer, but since it appeared for quite a while that he wasn't going to survive, this is excellent news!
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Good news update, y'all...
Update on Santa Fe ISD Police Officer John Barnes, who was seriously wounded and nearly killed while confronting a school shooter: https://www.houstonchronicle.com/neighborhood/galveston/articleComments/Officer-injured-during-Santa-Fe-High-School-12974315.php (https://www.houstonchronicle.com/neighborhood/galveston/articleComments/Officer-injured-during-Santa-Fe-High-School-12974315.php)
He has a challenging recovery ahead of him and still needs prayer, but since it appeared for quite a while that he wasn't going to survive, this is excellent news!
Good to hear!
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It's interesting the history of the notion of "whiteness."
If you read Benjamin Franklin's work, he didn't even consider Germans to be "white," since he believed their worldview was incompatible with the American ideal. (The large German community in Pennsylvania didn't take kindly to Franklin suggesting that, either.)
@jmyrlefuller
My grandmother was a full-blooded Tuscarora Indian,and judging by the only known photo of her that I have seen,she was pretty damn dark. Then again,even though modern history wants to ignore it,there was at least ONE "Native Tribe" that lived near where the NC/SC border is now that were very dark and had what was described as "African features" by the dood from Jamestown (James White?) that went out amongst all the locals he could find to report on their ways and draw pictures of them. Unfortunately for them,the tribe was dying out by the time he discovered them. Warfare with other,stronger tribes and diseases had their numbers down to the point where the males were going to be killed or die off,and the females absorbed into other local tribes.
It should be noted that native tribes didn't much care about skin color or anything else other than "can they work and give birth to benefit the tribe?"
I have talked with a few of the older women around here decades ago who knew her when they were girls,and every one of them said she was the smartest woman they ever met,so......so much for the rural southern racism of legend. My grandfather was of Scots-Irish blood,and had red hair and blue eyes. Other than one son and my mother who had red hair and blue or green eyes,the rest of their children (7 in total) had black hair,blue eyes,and they all had very pale skin.
As for me,my father was ethnic Greek,so I don't really know,or care about what category I fit into. After all,it's not like I can do anything about it,is it?
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Good news update, y'all...
Update on Santa Fe ISD Police Officer John Barnes, who was seriously wounded and nearly killed while confronting a school shooter: https://www.houstonchronicle.com/neighborhood/galveston/articleComments/Officer-injured-during-Santa-Fe-High-School-12974315.php (https://www.houstonchronicle.com/neighborhood/galveston/articleComments/Officer-injured-during-Santa-Fe-High-School-12974315.php)
He has a challenging recovery ahead of him and still needs prayer, but since it appeared for quite a while that he wasn't going to survive, this is excellent news!
Thanks, that is good news!
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Good news update, y'all...
Update on Santa Fe ISD Police Officer John Barnes, who was seriously wounded and nearly killed while confronting a school shooter: https://www.houstonchronicle.com/neighborhood/galveston/articleComments/Officer-injured-during-Santa-Fe-High-School-12974315.php (https://www.houstonchronicle.com/neighborhood/galveston/articleComments/Officer-injured-during-Santa-Fe-High-School-12974315.php)
He has a challenging recovery ahead of him and still needs prayer, but since it appeared for quite a while that he wasn't going to survive, this is excellent news!
:amen: