The Briefing Room

General Category => Military/Defense News => Topic started by: famousdayandyear on September 17, 2012, 02:28:38 am

Title: DARPA funds drones to hunt quiet diesel subs
Post by: famousdayandyear on September 17, 2012, 02:28:38 am
DARPA funds drones to hunt quiet diesel subs
http://www.navytimes.com/news/2012/09/navy-darpa-funds-drones-to-hunt-quiet-diesel-subs-091512 (http://www.navytimes.com/news/2012/09/navy-darpa-funds-drones-to-hunt-quiet-diesel-subs-091512)
By Sam Fellman - Staff writer
Posted : Saturday Sep 15, 2012 10:21:00 EDT

The Navy has moved one step closer to designing the next generation of submarine chasers: roving drone ships capable of scanning the seas for the quietest diesel subs.

The vision for these trimarans, a project funded by the Defense Department’s advanced research arm, is to detect and trail foreign subs across thousands of kilometers for months at a time — all largely without human intervention.

While tracking the sub via sonar, the drone ships would be able to safely navigate, avoiding shoals and other ships.

After proving this core concept was feasible, the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency awarded $58 million Aug. 16 to military contractor SAIC to design, build and test these autonomous sub-hunters. But the unmanned vessels will require years of development and testing to consistently accomplish feats challenging for the best human crews.

The biggest engineering challenge will be proving a design that can autonomously drive itself through the ocean and avoid other ships while simultaneously tracking very quiet subs for periods up to three months, an ability one engineer called “intelligent autonomy.”

“Building a boat is rather easy,” said retired Capt. Rick Simon, director of Spatial Integrated Systems, a contractor working with DARPA to help these vessels navigate through high sea states. “But make that thing smart enough to go out there for 90 days and not have to call home to Mama and ask for help — that’s the hard part.”

If these many technological hurdles are scaled, the Navy could have a relatively cheap way to neutralize the diesel subs, which are used by regimes such as North Korea, China and Iran and represent one of its foremost threats.

“Our goal is to transition an operational game-changer to the Navy,” said Scott Littlefield, a program manager at DARPA, in an Aug. 16 news release. “This should create an asymmetry to our advantage, negating a challenging submarine threat at one-tenth their cost of building subs.”

The next three years will be busy as SAIC and subcontractors design and construct an integrated, autonomous boat capable of detecting diesel subs.
From plans to reality

DARPA expects vessel prototypes to start at-sea tests in 2015. Building such complex, autonomous vessels will likely lead to technological breakthroughs that affect other parts of the Navy.

But as this system transitions from concept to fleet reality, the Navy will have to resolve larger issues about how to make a gee-whiz design relevant in wartime, one former submarine captain said.

“Is this a peacetime or a wartime capability?” said the retired officer, who asked to remain anonymous to speak candidly about a defense contract. He highlighted the vessels’ vulnerability in wartime, such as against the Chinese navy.

“If this thing is out there, banging away on top of a submarine with active [sonar],” he said, “why wouldn’t the Chinese just kill it?”
Title: Re: DARPA funds drones to hunt quiet diesel subs
Post by: Oceander on September 17, 2012, 02:37:55 am
Quote
“If this thing is out there, banging away on top of a submarine with active [sonar],” he said, “why wouldn’t the Chinese just kill it?”

And with all the things that can go wrong out on the high seas, hundreds of miles from shore, who's to say it was attacked, and not just the victim of a rogue wave, a whale, or something else?
Title: Re: DARPA funds drones to hunt quiet diesel subs
Post by: famousdayandyear on September 17, 2012, 03:13:20 am
And with all the things that can go wrong out on the high seas, hundreds of miles from shore, who's to say it was attacked, and not just the victim of a rogue wave, a whale, or something else?

Good point.  I had imagined these drones operating in the Gulf of Mexico and/or other coastal waters of the US.
Title: Re: DARPA funds drones to hunt quiet diesel subs
Post by: U-238 on September 17, 2012, 03:17:32 am
DARPA funds drones to hunt quiet diesel subs
http://www.navytimes.com/news/2012/09/navy-darpa-funds-drones-to-hunt-quiet-diesel-subs-091512 (http://www.navytimes.com/news/2012/09/navy-darpa-funds-drones-to-hunt-quiet-diesel-subs-091512)
By Sam Fellman - Staff writer
Posted : Saturday Sep 15, 2012 10:21:00 EDT

The Navy has moved one step closer to designing the next generation of submarine chasers: roving drone ships capable of scanning the seas for the quietest diesel subs.

The vision for these trimarans, a project funded by the Defense Department’s advanced research arm, is to detect and trail foreign subs across thousands of kilometers for months at a time — all largely without human intervention.

While tracking the sub via sonar, the drone ships would be able to safely navigate, avoiding shoals and other ships.

After proving this core concept was feasible, the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency awarded $58 million Aug. 16 to military contractor SAIC to design, build and test these autonomous sub-hunters. But the unmanned vessels will require years of development and testing to consistently accomplish feats challenging for the best human crews.

The biggest engineering challenge will be proving a design that can autonomously drive itself through the ocean and avoid other ships while simultaneously tracking very quiet subs for periods up to three months, an ability one engineer called “intelligent autonomy.”

“Building a boat is rather easy,” said retired Capt. Rick Simon, director of Spatial Integrated Systems, a contractor working with DARPA to help these vessels navigate through high sea states. “But make that thing smart enough to go out there for 90 days and not have to call home to Mama and ask for help — that’s the hard part.”

If these many technological hurdles are scaled, the Navy could have a relatively cheap way to neutralize the diesel subs, which are used by regimes such as North Korea, China and Iran and represent one of its foremost threats.

“Our goal is to transition an operational game-changer to the Navy,” said Scott Littlefield, a program manager at DARPA, in an Aug. 16 news release. “This should create an asymmetry to our advantage, negating a challenging submarine threat at one-tenth their cost of building subs.”

The next three years will be busy as SAIC and subcontractors design and construct an integrated, autonomous boat capable of detecting diesel subs.
From plans to reality

DARPA expects vessel prototypes to start at-sea tests in 2015. Building such complex, autonomous vessels will likely lead to technological breakthroughs that affect other parts of the Navy.

But as this system transitions from concept to fleet reality, the Navy will have to resolve larger issues about how to make a gee-whiz design relevant in wartime, one former submarine captain said.

“Is this a peacetime or a wartime capability?” said the retired officer, who asked to remain anonymous to speak candidly about a defense contract. He highlighted the vessels’ vulnerability in wartime, such as against the Chinese navy.

“If this thing is out there, banging away on top of a submarine with active [sonar],” he said, “why wouldn’t the Chinese just kill it?”

You can probably detect a submarine through its wake.There is that problem with the SOSUS network
Title: Re: DARPA funds drones to hunt quiet diesel subs
Post by: famousdayandyear on September 17, 2012, 03:28:52 am
You can probably detect a submarine through its wake.There is that problem with the SOSUS network

An underwater wake?  Interesting
Title: Re: DARPA funds drones to hunt quiet diesel subs
Post by: U-238 on September 17, 2012, 03:30:50 am
An underwater wake?  Interesting

LOL.Now they are using satellites.Detecting submarines via satellite is a form of Non-Acoustic Anti-Submarine Warfare (NAASW). Lasers, infrared and other detectors and synthetic aperture radar (SAR) in space may be used as part of this NAASW activity. Satellites might see subtle undersea disturbances caused by submarines, watch wave patterns on or beneath the sea surface, or detect subtle variations in ocean temperature.

http://www.behindbluelines.com/2009/07/22/what-is-state-of-the-art-in-submarine-detection/
Title: Re: DARPA funds drones to hunt quiet diesel subs
Post by: famousdayandyear on September 17, 2012, 03:36:29 am
LOL.Now they are using satellites.Detecting submarines via satellite is a form of Non-Acoustic Anti-Submarine Warfare (NAASW). Lasers, infrared and other detectors and synthetic aperture radar (SAR) in space may be used as part of this NAASW activity. Satellites might see subtle undersea disturbances caused by submarines, watch wave patterns on or beneath the sea surface, or detect subtle variations in ocean temperature.

Very interesting, U2--but wAAAAAAAy too techie for me.  Thx for input
Title: Re: DARPA funds drones to hunt quiet diesel subs
Post by: U-238 on September 17, 2012, 03:37:12 am
Very interesting, U2--but wAAAAAAAy too techie for me.  Thx for input

No problem.