The Briefing Room
General Category => Politics/Government => Topic started by: Right_in_Virginia on October 08, 2019, 05:18:55 pm
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Rand Paul: It's Not U.S. Responsibility 'to Fight Every War and Find Every Peace'
CNS News, Oct 8, 2019
Some Republicans, including Trump allies such as Sen Lindsey Graham, have joined Democrats in sharply criticizing the president's decision to withdraw an unannounced number of U.S. troops from northeastern Syria. But Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) strongly supports the president's move, even if the "neocon war caucus of the Senate" -- Paul's words -- does not.
"We haven't been able to find peace for 18 years in Afghanistan," Paul told Fox News's Neil Cavuto in a telephone interview on Monday. "So I certainly don't think we're going to find peace in Syria. But I do think a couple of hundred people there is simply a trip wire for a bigger war or for a calamity for our soldiers."
The neocons "always want to stay at war. They always think it's the best answer," Paul said:
But I would say this. I think President Trump recognizes what President Reagan recognized, unfortunately too late, in Beirut. Leaving three or 400 people in an area that is vulnerable could lead to catastrophe, but also doesn't really do anything to secure our national security.
You know, I'm kind of the belief go big -- go big or go home. You know, 200 or 300 people are just a trip wire to get us drawn into something and a tragedy probably, but they aren't enough to do anything.
In fact, there may be a couple of -- there may be dozens of people at a time -- maybe a dozen here, dozen there. They aren't enough to deter anything. And part of the resolution of the war over there has to be people who live over there.
The Turks live over there. The Syrians live over there. And we have -- they have apparently come to an agreement. There's about three million Syrian refugees in Turkey. You know, they're going to try to get some of those people back into Syria. And they have to have an area -- a zone where they can control that. […]
More w/audio: https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/susan-jones/rand-paul-its-not-us-responsibility-fight-every-war-and-find-every-peace (https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/susan-jones/rand-paul-its-not-us-responsibility-fight-every-war-and-find-every-peace)
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Here's the essence of the President's orders. Before the neocons storm the castle I hope they read this:
FTA
The United States has an estimated 1,000 troops in Syria. According to The New York Times, Trump's pullback order affects around 100 to 150 of them.
Turkey wants to set up a buffer zone, free of Kurdish fighters, along its 300-mile border with Syria. It then plans to repatriate some two million Syrian refugees who fled to Turkey to escape the civil war.
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I don't trust the Turks at all. I also don't trust Assad or the Kurds either, so there's no reason to shed one crop of American blood in northern Syria.
Of the players listed above, only one is a Nato Ally. A poor one, admittedly, but an ally nonetheless.
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Here's the essence of the President's orders. Before the neocons storm the castle I hope they read this:
FTA
Too late. They've purged and have moved on.
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I don't trust the Turks at all. I also don't trust Assad or the Kurds either, so there's no reason to shed one crop of American blood in northern Syria.
Of the players listed above, only one is a Nato Ally. A poor one, admittedly, but an ally nonetheless.
And we also shouldn't trust a radical kook like Rand Paul to advise the President on foreign policy either.
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Before the neocons storm the castle I hope they read this:
You're not even bright enough in your attempt to smear people who disagree with this foreign policy mistake to know what the definition of "neocon" is.
You just hear Rand Paul use it...and repeat it like a clapping seal.
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And we also shouldn't trust a radical kook like Rand Paul to advise the President on foreign policy either.
No, I would not either.
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The term "neoconservative" was used originally by socialists to criticize the politics of Social Democrats, USA (SDUSA). Jonah Goldberg argues that the term is ideological criticism against proponents of modern American liberalism who had become slightly more conservative.
The term "neoconservative" was popularized in the United States during 1973 by the socialist leader Michael Harrington, who used the term to define Daniel Bell, Daniel Patrick Moynihan, and Irving Kristol, whose ideologies differed from Harrington's.
So I guess @Right_in_Virginia and anyone else here tossing around the "neocon" term for those that don't agree with their radical Libertarian isolationist cheerleading now that Trump is adopting it...think we're all socialists or former socialists.
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The term "neoconservative" was used originally by socialists to criticize the politics of Social Democrats, USA (SDUSA). Jonah Goldberg argues that the term is ideological criticism against proponents of modern American liberalism who had become slightly more conservative.
The term "neoconservative" was popularized in the United States during 1973 by the socialist leader Michael Harrington, who used the term to define Daniel Bell, Daniel Patrick Moynihan, and Irving Kristol, whose ideologies differed from Harrington's.
So I guess @Right_in_Virginia and anyone else here tossing around the "neocon" term for those that don't agree with their radical Libertarian isolationist cheerleading now that Trump is adopting it...think we're all socialists or former socialists.
For a period last year or so, "neocon" was used as a synonym for "anti-Zionist" and later "warmonger." A not-very-useful attachment meant to tar people by association.
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This discussion reminds me of the expression, “The camel is a horse designed by committee.â€
Well, foreign policy designed by committee is also a bad idea, that’s why it’s vested in the executive. We elected a president to make these decisions, the president made the call, and no amount of back-seat driving or what if’s adds much towards resolving our disagreements.
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The term "neoconservative" was used originally by socialists to criticize the politics of Social Democrats, USA (SDUSA). Jonah Goldberg argues that the term is ideological criticism against proponents of modern American liberalism who had become slightly more conservative.
The term "neoconservative" was popularized in the United States during 1973 by the socialist leader Michael Harrington, who used the term to define Daniel Bell, Daniel Patrick Moynihan, and Irving Kristol, whose ideologies differed from Harrington's.
So I guess @Right_in_Virginia and anyone else here tossing around the "neocon" term for those that don't agree with their radical Libertarian isolationist cheerleading now that Trump is adopting it...think we're all socialists or former socialists.
I have been stupidly called a "neocon" so many times in the past that it doesn't even phase me in the least. I just always consider the source. :shrug:
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This discussion reminds me of the expression, “The camel is a horse designed by committee.â€
Well, foreign policy designed by committee is also a bad idea, that’s why it’s vested in the executive. We elected a president to make these decisions, the president made the call, and no amount of back-seat driving or what if’s adds much towards resolving our disagreements.
And when it fails and the Kurds fall you'll be the first one here fire fighting on behalf of Trump agaisnt those that predicted what happened.
You wanna see an endless war in the ME? Let Turkey either directly or indirectly free thise ISIS fighters currently in priosn and you'll get the endless war everyone ehre is falsely claiming we're in right now.
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I have been stupidly called a "neocon" so many times in the past that it doesn't even phase me in the least. I just always consider the source. :shrug:
Same here. I just wanted to educate some of the people more prone to knee jerk responses than actually thoughtful replies the origin of the smear they like to use.
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A not-very-useful attachment meant to tar people by association.
Alot of that going around. Debate would be so much more productive if we'd dispose of the labels.
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For a period last year or so, "neocon" was used as a synonym for "anti-Zionist" and later "warmonger." A not-very-useful attachment meant to tar people by association.
Yeah the whole warmonger association with the term really took during Bush 43's administration.
And you're right it's not very useful at all...especially when you learn it's origins.
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In the middle east we have only two real allies, the Kurds and the Israels. Trump basically gave the Turks permission to invade Syria so
they could wipe out the Kurds. That's like giving Iran permission to invade Israel. He is now walking it back after getting a HUGE blow back
from conservatives.
I hate the neocons that got us involved over there for no damn reason. At the very top of my list is George W Bush.
Saddam tried to have W's father killed so W had a family score to settle with him. He took the nation to war not for US interests but for
family business. When when his top general told him he did not have enough troops to successful occupy Iraq he fired that general and
all the neocons said "The Iraqis will throw rose petals at the feet of our troops". Yeah how did that work out for us? Well we did not
have enough troops and the Iraqis did not throw rose petals instead they threw IEDs. Then the hated Bush withdrew and gave birth to
ISIS, which BTW Turkey armed and trained along with the CIA. That is what Bengazi (sp) was all about and why Hillary does not want
to talk about Bengazi. Ambassador Steven's job was to see to it that all the arms used to murder Kadafi Libya got to Syria to murder
Assad. The USA has made a complete mess over there. Starting with the idiot Bush and then the traitor Zero. The last thing we need to
do is make sure Turkey is NOT green lighted to wipe out the Kurds. I am a big supporter of Trump but he f'ed up big time on this.
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In the middle east we have only two real allies, the Kurds and the Israels. Trump basically gave the Turks permission to invade Syria so
they could wipe out the Kurds. That's like giving Iran permission to invade Israel. He is now walking it take after getting a HUGE blow back
from conservatives.
I hate the neocons that got us involved over there for no damn reason. At the very top of my list is George W Bush.
Saddam tried to have W's father killed so W had a family score to settle with him. He took the nation to was not for US interests but for
family business. When when his top general told him he did not have enough troops to successful occupy Iraq he fired that general and
all the neocons said "The Iraqis will throw rose petals at the feet of our troops". Yeah how did that work out for us. Well we did not
have enough troops and the Iraqis did not throw rose petals instead they threw IEDs. Then the hated Bush withdrew and gave birth to
ISIS, which BTW Turkey armed and trained along with the CIA. That is what Bengazi (sp) was all about and why Hillary does not want
to talk about Bengazi. Ambassador Steven's job was to see to it that all the arms used to murder Kadafi Libya got to Syria to murder
Assad. The USA has made a complete mess over there. Starting with the idiot Bush and then the traitor Zero. The last thing we need to
do is make sure Turkey is NOT green lighted to wipe out the Kurds. I and a big supporter of Trump but he f'ed up big time on this.
Well said.
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Well said.
LOL, to many typo's. I think I corrected most to them.
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LOL, to many typo's. I think I corrected most to them.
It happens to me all the time too.
Just one minor little disagreement now that I go back and read it. It wasn't 43 pulling out of Iraq that alllowed ISIS to spread. That was the fault of Obama...Biden to be exact pulling us out unilaterally without a SOFA and agaisnt the wishes of the Iraqi government and despite the warnings from then GEN Mattis that this ISIS group was forming and would be trouble if we left. Obama fired Mattis.
ISIS is actually an offshoot of the Taliban. ISIS was actually considered too radical for Taliban beliefs ISIS members were booted from the Taliban for being too extreme.
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It happens to me all the time too.
Just one minor little disagreement now that I go back and read it. It wasn't 43 pulling out of Iraq that alllowed ISIS to spread. That was the fault of Obama...Biden to be exact pulling us out unilaterally without a SOFA and agaisnt the wishes of the Iraqi government and despite the warnings from then GEN Mattis that this ISIS group was forming and would be trouble if we left. Obama fired Mattis.
ISIS is actually an offshoot of the Taliban. ISIS was actually considered too radical for Taliban beliefs ISIS members were booted from the Taliban for being too extreme.
This is my recollection as well. Nobody heard of ISIS until Obastard threw Iraq to the wolves, then Wham! They were all over Western Iraq, complete with all the atrocities against civilians. They must be pretty messed up to be considered too "extreme" by the Taliban and the Iranians. I guess they're still right at home in Assad's Syria.
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It happens to me all the time too.
Just one minor little disagreement now that I go back and read it. It wasn't 43 pulling out of Iraq that alllowed ISIS to spread. That was the fault of Obama...Biden to be exact pulling us out unilaterally without a SOFA and agaisnt the wishes of the Iraqi government and despite the warnings from then GEN Mattis that this ISIS group was forming and would be trouble if we left. Obama fired Mattis.
ISIS is actually an offshoot of the Taliban. ISIS was actually considered too radical for Taliban beliefs ISIS members were booted from the Taliban for being too extreme.
My recollection is that Obama implemented what Bush negotiated. But have not really investigated who really dropped the ball on Iraq.
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This is my recollection as well. Nobody heard of ISIS until Obastard threw Iraq to the wolves, then Wham! They were all over Western Iraq, complete with all the atrocities against civilians. They must be pretty messed up to be considered too "extreme" by the Taliban and the Iranians. I guess they're still right at home in Assad's Syria.
ISIS was fighting to overthrow Assad. And the CIA was arming and training them. So I guess they are not to extreme for the CIA.
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ISIS was fighting to overthrow Assad. And the CIA was arming and training them. So I guess they are not to extreme for the CIA.
John Brennan isn't too extremist a Moslem for the CIA.
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My recollection is that Obama implemented what Bush negotiated. But have not really investigated who really dropped the ball on Iraq.
But that wasn't what Bush negotiated. When Bush left office, the negotiations for the SOF Agreement @txradioguy mentioned above were not completed. At the first sign of Iraqi resistance in the negotiations (IOW, standard negotiating practices), Omama just got up and left the table, and the massive pull-out followed. That was Obastard's plan, right from the start. He did it.
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But that wasn't what Bush negotiated. When Bush left office, the negotiations for the SOF Agreement @txradioguy mentioned above were not completed. At the first sign of Iraqi resistance in the negotiations (IOW, standard negotiating practices), Omama just got up and left the table, and the massive pull-out followed. That was Obastard's plan, right from the start. He did it.
OK, I'll take your word for it, like I said I haven't looked into it and I really don't want to. I'm just happy both W and Zero are gone.
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It's funny how just about everyone on this board agrees when someone talks about us not going to war unless we intend to win. Yet, when the president decides to bail out of a "no win" situation, people start complaining. If we have learned anything in our sordid history with the Middle East, it is that there are no such things as good guys or bad guys. If Turkey, Russia or Iran want to get into the mess, more power to them. They can afford it even less than we can.
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It's funny how just about everyone on this board agrees when someone talks about us not going to war unless we intend to win. Yet, when the president decides to bail out of a "no win" situation, people start complaining. If we have learned anything in our sordid history with the Middle East, it is that there are no such things as good guys or bad guys. If Turkey, Russia or Iran want to get into the mess, more power to them. They can afford it even less than we can.
It's not a matter or win or no win...it's a matter of right or wrong.
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Bush had the right idea about invading Iraq, but Paul Brenner screwed the pooch, then obummer ate the damn dog. Eisenhower's thing about the Military Industry Complex, comes to mind.
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Bush had the right idea about invading Iraq, but Paul Brenner screwed the pooch, then obummer ate the damn dog. Eisenhower's thing about the Military Industry Complex, comes to mind.
So where are Suddam's nukes? That after all was the "reason" we created the horrible mess that is the Middle East today.
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It's not a matter or win or no win...it's a matter of right or wrong.
Yes, it's a Duty, Honor, Country thing.
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So where are Suddam's nukes? That after all was the "reason" we created the horrible mess that is the Middle East today.
My money's always been on Bekka, in Syria.
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It's not a matter or win or no win...it's a matter of right or wrong.
So the US soldier pays the price with limb or life to prove that politicians are virtuous? For what? Middle Easterners’ politics? Is there a compelling reason an American should sacrifice? Is it to protect his family, his home, his country?
I cannot anymore find a reason for this entanglement and I find @massadvj ’s point particularly cogent in this regard.
Enough.
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So where are Suddam's nukes? That after all was the "reason" we created the horrible mess that is the Middle East today.
With all due respect @jpsb the ME has been screwed up since before we were even a Country. Go in, kick azz and get the Fk out of their internal affairs except for some guidelines like Germany and Japan after WWII. It's been downhill for US Foreign entanglements since Korea.
IMHO, ain't nobody fixing that CF currently called the ME, except themselves and I don't believe their up to the task.
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So where are Suddam's nukes? That after all was the "reason" we created the horrible mess that is the Middle East today.
They went to Syria along with his whole WMD program. CENTCOM watched the convoy go unabated across the border a couple days before Baghdad fell.
A couple years later the IAF took care of the new WMD facility Syria had created from Saddams weapons.
And we didn't create any mess in the ME if anything we always have to go in and fix the messes made.
Thats some Ron/Rand Paul kook talk right there on your part.
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I am hearing now that the original directivesaid US troops were leaving the area and NOT Syria itself.
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I am hearing now that the original directivesaid US troops were leaving the area and NOT Syria itself.
I've heard 'northern Syria' this entire time.
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So I guess @Right_in_Virginia and anyone else here tossing around the "neocon" term for those that don't agree with their radical Libertarian isolationist cheerleading now that Trump is adopting it...think we're all socialists or former socialists.
Good grief, get a hold of the hyperbole @txradioguy It's getting the best of you.
There's nothing isolationist about wanting America's young sent to die only for what's in America's interests and national security. And there is nothing isolationist about our bringing our soldiers home when our mission is accomplished.
For the life of me I don't understand how you can justify a father and son serving in the same war 18 years apart --- or why you're so hell-bent on replicating this disaster everywhere and anywhere.
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And just when I am starting to like you ....... BAMB!
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There's a Theory on the Net that the most burdensome database in a Forum is the Ignore List, once you reach critical mass on that one, you start going down.
You Briefers need to learn to be more tolerant of each other for the good of us all or there will be another Brief outage (relinking Databases), promptly followed by Quarterly Briefathon's to remove your BIAS from our presence and insure Site Stability.
(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/c0/8f/83/c08f837d491a7696a214782faa65b4f2.jpg)
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So the US soldier pays the price with limb or life to prove that politicians are virtuous? For what? Middle Easterners’ politics? Is there a compelling reason an American should sacrifice? Is it to protect his family, his home, his country?
I cannot anymore find a reason for this entanglement and I find @massadvj ’s point particularly cogent in this regard.
Enough.
If Obama had done this the media would be drooling all over themselves talking about how "courageous" he was to stand up to the military, etc. Because it's Trump, they take the neocon side and make it look like he is some kind of mad man. Enough is right.
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There's a Theory on the Net that the most burdensome database in a Forum is the Ignore List, once you reach critical mass on that one, you start going down.
You Briefers need to learn to be more tolerant of each other for the good of us all or there will be another Brief outage (relinking Databases), promptly followed by Quarterly Briefathon's to remove your BIAS from our presence and insure Site Stability.
(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/c0/8f/83/c08f837d491a7696a214782faa65b4f2.jpg)
Thank you Mr. Pleasant!
Error 404 (Not Found)!!1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_mH9Mdlua0#)
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Thank you Mr. Pleasant!
Error 404 (Not Found)!!1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_mH9Mdlua0#)
@TomSea I'd shamelessly admit that I'd probably make the top 10 list here as far as being on Briefers Ignore List (mine stays empty), though, I don't have access to that information and that could essentially make me more part of the 'problem' than the 'solution'. I get that.
But I promise I can change, just give me 5 more years.
wink777
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So, "soft ignore" is okay, someone mentioned this in the past, not my terminology, just sort of scan over others posts if you don't like what they say. Hmmn.
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I survive here on 'Soft Ignore' @TomSea It's great for your Blood Pressure.
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Good grief, get a hold of the hyperbole @txradioguy It's getting the best of you.
There's nothing isolationist about wanting America's young sent to die only for what's in America's interests and national security. And there is nothing isolationist about our bringing our soldiers home when our mission is accomplished.
For the life of me I don't understand how you can justify a father and son serving in the same war 18 years apart --- or why you're so hell-bent on replicating this disaster everywhere and anywhere.
You know nothing about what we do or why we do it. You just enjoy the fruits of our labor...the ability to sit on your ass in a nice air conditioned house and pontificate about how bad it is that we go to foreign shores to fight threats to the U.S. on their turf.
You don't understand why a father and son will do that because you don't know anything about selfless service or a family legacy of wearing the nations uniform. You just think like John Kerry and the rest of the Libs that we do this because we have no other choice in life.
You're completely clueless...and it shows badly.
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If Obama had done this the media would be drooling all over themselves talking about how "courageous" he was to stand up to the military, etc. Because it's Trump, they take the neocon side and make it look like he is some kind of mad man. Enough is right.
He abandoned an ally to their enemy. An enemy that wasn't going to make a move until Trump retreated. Had we stayed the Kurds and those jailed ISIS fighters wouldn't be threatened in the least.
We gave them our word. Doesn't that count for anything anymore? Or is it only as good until it's not politically expedient anymore?
Like I said this isn't about policy or the mythical endless wars...it's about right and wrong.
And you and some others don't seem to care about that.
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If Obama had done this the media would be drooling all over themselves talking about how "courageous" he was to stand up to the military, etc. Because it's Trump, they take the neocon side and make it look like he is some kind of mad man. Enough is right.
There's people here that raised all kinds of hell about Obama screwing the Kurds over and abandoning other allies in the ME and how wrong that was. Now because it's Trump the same people call it "sound foreign policy".
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You know nothing about what we do or why we do it.
The problem isn't that I don't know why we do half of what we do to our military @txradioguy .... the problem is our leaders don't know. It's just more of "this is how we've always done it" hoping someday, somehow they'll actually be right. To this I say "enough!".
You don't understand why a father and son will do that because you don't know anything about selfless service or a family legacy of wearing the nations uniform.
I am intimately acquainted with this father and son. And you are wrong. I do understand and with my heart, mind and soul I know that neither agrees with what our leaders have done and continue to do with our brave warriors. Selfless they are. Stupid they are not. And I am damn proud of both.
You're completely clueless...and it shows badly.
You are completely lost in a sea of emotion, unable to acknowledge the mistakes made by both the civilian and military leaders who order our young to the shores of death. You are unable to see the failures in strategies that leave nothing more accomplished than drained American blood and treasure in their wake. What's worse is your demand for more of the same and that all agree with you or be condemned as "clueless". How dare you.
I am sorry that shouting "enough of the madness" is calling into question your view not only of the world but your role in it. There's nothing I can do about this but offer you my sincere condolences --- even as I thank God for the light at the end of this long and dark tunnel.