The Briefing Room

General Category => Editorial/Opinion/Blogs => Topic started by: Right_in_Virginia on July 11, 2019, 12:13:58 pm

Title: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 11, 2019, 12:13:58 pm
Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
The Week, Jul 9, 2019, Damon Linker

I love those "Any Functioning Adult 2020" bumper stickers as much as any upper-middle-class suburban white liberal. But if I'm honest, it isn't really true. I will never vote for Donald Trump, but that doesn't mean I'll cast a ballot for any Democrat with a pulse. I would vote for no one rather than contribute to the victory of a candidate who fails to show minimal competence and capacity for responsible leadership.

Judged by that standard, the Democratic field isn't looking very good right now. Yes, it's early. There's plenty of time to mollify my concerns. But at the moment, none of the leading candidates seem like serious contenders.

This isn't just about me and my quirky obsessions. There's no make-or-break list of centrist policies I expect presidential nominees to embrace and advocate in order to win my support. I just want to see evidence that the person acts and speaks like a potential president. (Yes, of course, Trump failed that elementary test in 2016, and he continues to fail it nearly every day. But that doesn't mean those seeking to replace him get to play by new, vastly lower standards.)

Let's begin with Sen. Kamala Harris, who received a lot of attention for her debate performance on June 27. As an act of political theatrics, her confrontation with former Vice President Joe Biden over the latter's opposition to federally mandated busing of students to desegregate school districts during the 1970s was the undisputed highlight of the opening two-night Democratic debate. It was a gripping performance.


More:  https://theweek.com/articles/851404/serious-democrat-please-run-president
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 11, 2019, 12:14:56 pm
Is it fear I'm detecting from upper middle class white liberals?   88devil



Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: EdJames on July 11, 2019, 12:16:25 pm
Is it fear I'm detecting from upper middle class white liberals?   88devil

If they weren't so damned brainwashed they would see voting for Trump as the only sane action....
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: sneakypete on July 11, 2019, 12:22:03 pm
I think the author of that brain fart was more confused when he wrote it than I was after reading it,and that's saying something.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: sneakypete on July 11, 2019, 12:24:00 pm
Is it fear I'm detecting from upper middle class white liberals?   88devil

@Right_in_Virginia

No,they are clueless "think happy thoughts and happy things will happen" airheads.

I think their confusion is finally finding a voice.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 11, 2019, 12:27:04 pm
@Right_in_Virginia

No,they are clueless "think happy thoughts and happy things will happen" airheads.

I think their confusion is finally finding a voice.

Tough to argue with @sneakypete  ......  :laugh:
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: massadvj on July 11, 2019, 12:43:05 pm
Is it fear I'm detecting from upper middle class white liberals?   88devil

Things were so much easier for them when they rested easy in the knowledge that their professed liberalism was a free ride to accumulate wealth, chase women and skirt the law through legal wrangling.  Even candidates like Obama talked the radical lingo, but once in office Goldman and Chase still ran the economy and it was pretty much business as usual.  Nowadays the candidates must show themselves to be "true believers" who really mean it.  For upper middle class urbanites, that means their own assets are at risk.

These days being a liberal in any urban setting is a necessary condition for getting laid.  But if you are male and not passive, being a lib no longer gets you a "get out of jail free" card like it once did.  People like Cosby, Epstein, Weinstein, Frankin and maybe even Bill Clinton are  being taught that the worst thing you can do for the so-called powerless is give them power.  They will end up eating their own.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Jazzhead on July 11, 2019, 12:53:51 pm
It is a shame that the Dems are reacting to Trump's professional wrestling-style themes of divisiveness, bombast and conflict by doubling down with the same.   It will be difficult if not impossible for any adult in the room to break through the cheering anti-Trump media, which exults in the hate.   

It used to be that two wrongs didn't make a right.   Now we don't even have the option of a "right" choice,  a candidate who is decent-minded and willing to listen to opposing arguments without first labelling them as racist and irredeemable. 

There is one Democrat I could possibly support - Sen.  Michael Bennett, who almost alone among the clown car denizens has been willing to call out the extremists and avoid the cheap 'n easy labels.   But the Dems want their schoolyard brawl with the President;  the last thing they are willing to nominate is a grown-up.     
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: sneakypete on July 11, 2019, 01:44:07 pm

These days being a liberal in any urban setting is a necessary condition for getting laid.  But if you are male and not passive, being a lib no longer gets you a "get out of jail free" card like it once did.  People like Cosby, Epstein, Weinstein, Frankin and maybe even Bill Clinton are  being taught that the worst thing you can do for the so-called powerless is give them power.  They will end up eating their own.

@massadvj

Couldn't happen to a more deserving group of people.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Cyber Liberty on July 11, 2019, 02:41:36 pm
These days being a liberal in any urban setting is a necessary condition for getting laid.

It's a lot easier to be conservative and pretend to be liberal than it is to be a leftist trying to feign conservatism.  I'm remind of a Star Trek TOS episode, "Mirror Mirror," when some of the crew was transported to a parallel dimension of savages.  As Spock said at the end, "We caught them right away.  You were able to disguise your selves as barbarians, but it was impossible for your counterparts to behave civilized."

Advantage:  Conservatives.  Lefties will fall for anything.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Jazzhead on July 11, 2019, 02:47:50 pm
It's a lot easier to be conservative and pretend to be liberal than it is to be a leftist trying to feign conservatism.  I'm remind of a Star Trek TOS episode, "Mirror Mirror," when some of the crew was transported to a parallel dimension of savages.  As Spock said at the end, "We caught them right away.  You were able to disguise your selves as barbarians, but it was impossible for your counterparts to behave civilized."

Advantage:  Conservatives.  Lefties will fall for anything.

 888high58888
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: massadvj on July 11, 2019, 02:50:59 pm
@massadvj

Couldn't happen to a more deserving group of people.

The Dems are the party of Boss Tweed, Edwin Edwards, Huey Long, James Traficant, Richard Daley and Lyndon Johnson.  All of these people had one thing in common: they were populist leftists.  The current crop of "true believers" would be no less corrupt, and maybe even more so, were they to attain power.

Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Cyber Liberty on July 11, 2019, 02:55:11 pm
888high58888

 888high58888

Keeping conservatives at the top of the gene pool, one conquest at a time.  Thank goodness I'm too old for that kind of crap anymore...
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: IsailedawayfromFR on July 11, 2019, 03:53:23 pm
This might be ominously a setup to select Michelle Obama as the nominee.

Strange isn't it that someone like her, eminently unqualified and unserious most of her "first time I am proud to be an American" life, might be more sane than what is currently the Democrat field?
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: catfish1957 on July 11, 2019, 03:56:30 pm
IF Zell Miller was alive, I'd vote for him over Tump.  Maybe Scoop Jackson too.

OF course those dinosaurs are extinct.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: goatprairie on July 11, 2019, 04:30:53 pm
The writer does not come to the obvious conclusion: the party has lurched so far to the left,  that there might not be any decent, moderate Dem pols left anymore.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: roamer_1 on July 11, 2019, 04:46:42 pm
It is a shame that the Dems are reacting to Trump's professional wrestling-style themes of divisiveness, bombast and conflict by doubling down with the same.   It will be difficult if not impossible for any adult in the room to break through the cheering anti-Trump media, which exults in the hate.   

It used to be that two wrongs didn't make a right.   Now we don't even have the option of a "right" choice,  a candidate who is decent-minded and willing to listen to opposing arguments without first labelling them as racist and irredeemable. 

There is one Democrat I could possibly support - Sen.  Michael Bennett, who almost alone among the clown car denizens has been willing to call out the extremists and avoid the cheap 'n easy labels.   But the Dems want their schoolyard brawl with the President;  the last thing they are willing to nominate is a grown-up.   

Hell must be freezing over @Jazzhead - Because while not in the particular (I plead ignorance), I will agree with you in spirit. If the Dems were capable of lofting a classical liberal (roughly Dave Rubin-esque, let's say), we would all be better for it, with a real choice in the offing...

Not that they can, I think.
And I would submit that while you are right about the Dems being more interested in a schoolyard brawl, the Republicans, and this administration in particular, are no different in that regard.

One side or the other willing to offer up a grownup would be a sign of healing.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Jazzhead on July 11, 2019, 04:52:44 pm

One side or the other willing to offer up a grownup would be a sign of healing.

Indeed it would, @roamer_1 .   But this time around, at least, it won't be the Republicans.   And the chance of a Bennett or Hickenlooper breaking though to the Dem nomination is, basically, no chance.

So a schoolyard brawl it is.   Why should I be complicit in enabling it?   
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: roamer_1 on July 11, 2019, 05:04:31 pm
Indeed it would, @roamer_1 .   But this time around, at least, it won't be the Republicans.   And the chance of a Bennett or Hickenlooper breaking though to the Dem nomination is, basically, no chance.

So a schoolyard brawl it is.   Why should I be complicit in enabling it?   

That's right @Jazzhead , and hence, my reticence.
and in the mean time,
both Conservatism and classic liberalism languish.

Would for a statesman, over a thousand mere politicians of any stripe.

 :beer:
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Bigun on July 11, 2019, 05:06:30 pm
A serious Democrat???  There is such a thing???  Who knew???
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Cyber Liberty on July 11, 2019, 05:08:03 pm
Don't look now, but there isn't a non-bully in the bunch.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: roamer_1 on July 11, 2019, 05:10:21 pm
Don't look now, but there isn't a non-bully in the bunch.

On either side...
Jussayin.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: roamer_1 on July 11, 2019, 05:20:14 pm
IF Zell Miller was alive, I'd vote for him over Tump.  Maybe Scoop Jackson too.

OF course those dinosaurs are extinct.

And btw, @catfish1957 , me too.
 happy77
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Cyber Liberty on July 11, 2019, 05:20:37 pm
On either side...
Jussayin.

I believe I just sad that too.   rrthree
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Bigun on July 11, 2019, 05:24:54 pm
Don't look now, but there isn't a non-bully in the bunch.

Having myself been a candidate in an unsuccessful political race at a low level, I think one NEEDS to be a bit of a bully to be successful these days.  Sad as that is, I believe it to be true.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Sanguine on July 11, 2019, 05:28:44 pm
And btw, @catfish1957 , me too.
 happy77

If Zell Miller were still alive and still a democrat, no way would I vote for him.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: rustynail on July 11, 2019, 05:31:54 pm
So this place is really the democrat briefing room?
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: truth_seeker on July 11, 2019, 06:04:54 pm
Why is the GOP called the Stupid Party?

Because when a windfall like Trump occupies the Oval Office, yet the GOP plots/considers to reverse that beneficial condition.

How about devoting the energy towards finding and electing better Republicans?


Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Bigun on July 11, 2019, 06:13:03 pm
If Zell Miller were still alive and still a democrat, no way would I vote for him.

 pointing-up pointing-up pointing-up
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: roamer_1 on July 11, 2019, 06:33:06 pm
If Zell Miller were still alive and still a democrat, no way would I vote for him.

I don't give a crap about the big blue rhinestone 'D', anymore than I do the big red rhinestone 'R'. Both of em are full of crap, and against the American people.

Voting for either one because of the designation is just as bad.
Communist imposition run by the UN, or global socialist 'New World Order' run out of the board rooms... Take your pick.

Classic liberalism is a whole lot closer to Conservatism than either party - As a proponent and fan of the Intellectual Dark Web, you should have noticed that by now.

@Sanguine
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: roamer_1 on July 11, 2019, 06:34:15 pm
Why is the GOP called the Stupid Party?

Because when a windfall like Trump occupies the Oval Office, yet the GOP plots/considers to reverse that beneficial condition.

How about devoting the energy towards finding and electing better Republicans?

What windfall?
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Jazzhead on July 11, 2019, 06:42:00 pm
What windfall?

The windfall is for the Democrats,  now on the verge of nominating and electing a socialist progressive to be President of the United States,  all because of the opportunity presented by the Trump trainwreck.   
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Cyber Liberty on July 11, 2019, 07:02:51 pm
The windfall is for the Democrats,  now on the verge of nominating and electing a socialist progressive to be President of the United States,  all because of the opportunity presented by the Trump trainwreck.

I guess that's the fault of all these conservatives for resisting the Rats.  Political life would be peaceful of we would just cave in and let the Rats have what they want.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: catfish1957 on July 11, 2019, 07:06:44 pm
pointing-up pointing-up pointing-up

Line up Zell Miller and Donald Trump, and look at their life long positions on issues.  3 guess which one is more conservative.....   and it a'int the orange guy.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Bigun on July 11, 2019, 07:20:04 pm
Line up Zell Miller and Donald Trump, and look at their life long positions on issues.  3 guess which one is more conservative.....   and it a'int the orange guy.

As I recall Zell wrote a book about the Democrat party.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51HA4QPE1DL._SX314_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)

You should read it!
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Jazzhead on July 11, 2019, 07:34:43 pm
I guess that's the fault of all these conservatives for resisting the Rats.  Political life would be peaceful of we would just cave in and let the Rats have what they want.

Fighting back isn't the issue.   If all Trump were doing was fighting back I'd be cheering him on.   But his "leadership" is impulsive and erratic and driven by his ego and aversion to criticism.   I understand the "he may be a fool but he's our fool" mentality,  but he's created the likelihood that a radical progressive will win the Presidency.         
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: roamer_1 on July 11, 2019, 08:07:50 pm
Line up Zell Miller and Donald Trump, and look at their life long positions on issues.  3 guess which one is more conservative.....   and it a'int the orange guy.

FACT.

Back in the day, the Conservatives and Blue Dog Democrats were allies.
Fiscal conservatism, and governance by consensus, rather than by opposition.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: roamer_1 on July 11, 2019, 08:12:28 pm
The windfall is for the Democrats,  now on the verge of nominating and electing a socialist progressive to be President of the United States,  all because of the opportunity presented by the Trump trainwreck.

That is yet to be determined... But it is not a far fetched position.
The GOTV for democrats will be simple, with the opposition against Tump being white-hot.
Republicans better work at jacking up their numbers, because there will not be any Democrats sitting it out, regardless of the candidate.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: truth_seeker on July 11, 2019, 08:20:13 pm
Fighting back isn't the issue.   If all Trump were doing was fighting back I'd be cheering him on.   But his "leadership" is impulsive and erratic and driven by his ego and aversion to criticism.   I understand the "he may be a fool but he's our fool" mentality,  but he's created the likelihood that a radical progressive will win the Presidency.         

There are no Zell Millers anymore.

No other Republican, and no 3rd party kook, can win.


That is the truth. John Anderson, Ross Perot, Pat Buchanan, Harry Browne, Gary Johnston, Evan McMuffin, just a bit of the evidence.


Polls demonstrates that most Republicans will support Trump.

But you folks go ahead and romp around in political fantasyland, and prove my post from awhile ago:

3rd party kook site @Jazzhead @roamer_1   
again.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: DCPatriot on July 11, 2019, 08:23:23 pm
Bolted up in bed.  Alright, I get up every 2-1/2 hours, this time wondering:

Hillary Clinton feels she won the Popular Vote and thus is the rightful POTUS, why hasn't she appeared as 'The Sane One', like some Joan of Arc?    :shrug:


We have to figure that "President" Trump has all the real dirt on her now...so maybe that's why she's still waking up every morning in her own vomit?

Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Jazzhead on July 11, 2019, 08:41:16 pm
Republicans better work at jacking up their numbers, because there will not be any Democrats sitting it out, regardless of the candidate.

At any time other than the present,  a booming economy and historically low unemployment would give a huge boost to the incumbent.   But not this time.   This is the anomalous situation where folks are so tired of the President's antics that the election will be a referendum on the man himself,  not on the millions of jobs and opportunities created by his, and the GOP Congress', policies.

That's as Trump, it appears, wants it.   But it creates an opportunity for the Dems to sneak in a progressive socialist and seize full control of Congress,  a truly disastrous result for everything we hold dear.

It is not too late to thank Trump for his service and urge him, for the good of his legacy and the nation, to decline to run for re-election.     

Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: roamer_1 on July 11, 2019, 08:59:02 pm
There are no Zell Millers anymore.
No other Republican, and no 3rd party kook, can win.

@truth_seeker
So what? Somehow I get a Karl Rovian "where else they gonna go?" spirit coming out of you.
I'll tell you where they're going to go - HOME.

As it is, if there were ONLY a Republican and Democrat to vote for, predicting the candidates, I just wouldn't bother voting. I got no dog in this hunt.

And y'all better figure that out, because you've BARELY dragged their fat asses over the finish line - That is, the last three Republican wins - by the skin of your teeth.

Defend Conservatism, not Republicans. Til you do, it matters not whether I vote 3rd party or sit home - Either way, I won't be voting with you... I have no reason to.


Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: sneakypete on July 11, 2019, 09:00:53 pm
Fighting back isn't the issue.   If all Trump were doing was fighting back I'd be cheering him on.   But his "leadership" is impulsive and erratic and driven by his ego and aversion to criticism.   
       

@Jazzhead

All that,and he was and is STILL far superior to any of the usual alleged Republican regulars.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: berdie on July 11, 2019, 09:01:13 pm
The only thing I know about Zell...is that he gives a darn good fiery speech.

If he were alive...maybe the Pubs could hire him to speak. He had me on my feet at home.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: sneakypete on July 11, 2019, 09:02:57 pm


 
But you folks go ahead and romp around in political fantasyland, and prove my post from awhile ago:

3rd party kook site @Jazzhead @roamer_1   
again.

@truth_seeker

What they all want is another "solid Republican" like Poppy or Boy Jorge.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: sneakypete on July 11, 2019, 09:04:56 pm
At any time other than the present,  a booming economy and historically low unemployment would give a huge boost to the incumbent.   But not this time.   This is the anomalous situation where folks are so tired of the President's antics that the election will be a referendum on the man himself,  not on the millions of jobs and opportunities created by his, and the GOP Congress', policies.

That's as Trump, it appears, wants it.   But it creates an opportunity for the Dems to sneak in a progressive socialist and seize full control of Congress,  a truly disastrous result for everything we hold dear.

It is not too late to thank Trump for his service and urge him, for the good of his legacy and the nation, to decline to run for re-election.     

@Jazzhead

Give it a rest. You are not fooling anyone. What you want is another RINO like Bush.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: roamer_1 on July 11, 2019, 09:13:45 pm
@truth_seeker

What they all want is another "solid Republican" like Poppy or Boy Jorge.

Oh horse crap, @sneakypete , and you know it. We just had this conversation in the last couple weeks.
Give me a Goldwater or a Reagan, and I will come a'runnin.

I will *NOT* vote for another Republican Moderate (Bushes, McCain't, Dole) EVER again... and I certainly won't be voting for a Republican liberal (Romney, Tump)

Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: roamer_1 on July 11, 2019, 09:14:55 pm
The only thing I know about Zell...is that he gives a darn good fiery speech.

If he were alive...maybe the Pubs could hire him to speak. He had me on my feet at home.

That's right. And he meant it.
 :beer:
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Maj. Bill Martin on July 11, 2019, 09:20:04 pm

One side or the other willing to offer up a grownup would be a sign of healing.

I think there is a bit too much emphasis on "tone" being the problem.  Trump is a loudmouthed brawler, but he didn't create the rather massive policy differences that so divide very large chunks of voters in this country.  You could slap a bandaid of civility on the conversations, but the truth is that we'd still be just as far from compromise solutions.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: roamer_1 on July 11, 2019, 09:51:12 pm
I think there is a bit too much emphasis on "tone" being the problem.  Trump is a loudmouthed brawler, but he didn't create the rather massive policy differences that so divide very large chunks of voters in this country.  You could slap a bandaid of civility on the conversations, but the truth is that we'd still be just as far from compromise solutions.

@Maj. Bill Martin
I think you are wrong - But not for the reason you state.
Yes I care somewhat about tone - Civility is important, and one can be firm in conviction without being boorish. But more to the point, he pisses people off just for the sake of pissing them off, with nothing to gain... And what that translates to is very extreme determination in his opponents.

And the proof of that is the white-hot anger against him, when really, he has not moved the status quo enough to worry about.

I will not say that will, like @Jazzhead , but I will say that very well may cause a very determined left to roll out one helluva GOTV...

And that's just plain dumb.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Bigun on July 11, 2019, 09:57:31 pm
I'm going to take a break before I loose a LOT of friends!
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: InHeavenThereIsNoBeer on July 11, 2019, 10:11:16 pm
I'm going to take a break before I loose a LOT of friends!

That's it.  If you can't spell lose correctly, you're going on ignore, pal.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: EdJames on July 11, 2019, 10:16:05 pm
I'm going to take a break before I loose a LOT of friends!

Why do you think I moved my attention to the current baseball controversy??

(Ooops, looks like that may not work out so well either!!)

 :silly:
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Bigun on July 11, 2019, 10:21:01 pm
That's it.  If you can't spell lose correctly, you're going on ignore, pal.

Tooo many ooos in my spaghetti ooos
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Jazzhead on July 11, 2019, 10:40:18 pm
@Jazzhead

Give it a rest. You are not fooling anyone. What you want is another RINO like Bush.

No, I wish it were that simple.  I want anyone but Trump. If the election is a referendum on Trump, rather than on the issues,  the Dems likely control the whole ball of wax.

I don't give a damn whether it's a moderate,  a conservative or a libertarian.   I just want to know who has the courage to stand up and oppose him?   
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: InHeavenThereIsNoBeer on July 11, 2019, 10:42:35 pm
Tooo many ooos in my spaghetti ooos

I can't hear you.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Maj. Bill Martin on July 12, 2019, 03:27:03 pm
@Maj. Bill Martin
I think you are wrong - But not for the reason you state.
Yes I care somewhat about tone - Civility is important, and one can be firm in conviction without being boorish. But more to the point, he pisses people off just for the sake of pissing them off, with nothing to gain... And what that translates to is very extreme determination in his opponents.

And the proof of that is the white-hot anger against him, when really, he has not moved the status quo enough to worry about.

I will not say that will, like @Jazzhead , but I will say that very well may cause a very determined left to roll out one helluva GOTV...

And that's just plain dumb.

I think this depends on whether you view Trump as the action, or the reaction.  I think the nomination/election of Trump was the reaction by a whole lot of folks to the Democrats leftward acceleration over the course of the last decade.  Because Obama did move the country left in a lot of ways, but more importantly, I believe he created a mindset among the left that they "owned" the tide of political debate in this country.  That they are entitled to power simply because of their virtue.  And I believe that was evident before Trump took office.  Trump won because other Republicans failed to respond to that aggressively enough to satisfy voters.

Bernie Sanders was the canary in the coal mine.  He's a guy who would have been laughed out of the race a decade ago because he was an avowed socialist.  And yet, he had all the enthusiasm in the Democrat party, and would have won the nomination if black voters had not gone overwhelmingly for Hillary.  And he did that not by running against Trump, but by running against the "moderates" in the Democrat Party itself.  And even Bernie's success was just the logical continuation of things like Occupy Wall Street, the overnight shift in gay marriage, and Obama reversing himself and moving hard left on immigration with DACA. 

Those things all preceded Trump as the lightning rod, and reflect a remarkable degree of leftward movement in the country over a short period of time.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: roamer_1 on July 12, 2019, 03:46:53 pm
I think this depends on whether you view Trump as the action, or the reaction.  I think Trump was the reaction to the Democrats leftward acceleration over the course of the last decade.  Because Obama did move the country left in a lot of ways, but more importantly, I believe he created a mindset among the left that they "owned" the tide of political debate in this country.  That they are entitled to power simply because of their virtue.  And I believe that was evident before Trump took office.  Trump won because other Republicans failed to respond to that aggressively enough to satisfy voters.

Bernie Sanders was the canary in the coal mine.  He's a guy who would have been laughed out of the race a decade ago because he was an avowed socialist.  And yet, he had all the enthusiasm in the Democrat party, and would have won the nomination if black voters had not gone overwhelmingly for Hillary.  And he did that not by running against Trump, but by running against the "moderates" in the Democrat Party itself.  And even Bernie's success was just the logical continuation of Occupy Wall Street, the overnight shift in gay marriage, and Obama reversing himself and moving hard left on immigration with DACA. 

Those things all preceded Trump as the lightning rod, and reflect a remarkable degree of leftward movement in the country over a short period of time.

@Maj. Bill Martin
I don't really care about the impetus, the reasons, whatever. What matters is what he has done since he attained the office.
He likes pissing people off.
He likes publicly stepping on folks.
He likes grinding their faces in it.

No purpose about it, unless it is centered on himself - he's the martyr, and they did it to him... that sort of thing.

Well, hold on, because it's gonna get rough. You ain't going to have a rift in the Democrats, with a bunch of butthurt Berinie-ites staying home. You are not going to have anything cropping up that will matter. They are so very pissed off by now that they will very eagerly vote en-bloc against the Tumpy one.

Like I said, I ain't saying it's so, but it is very possible that Tump is the author of a mighty blue wave.

And all that, for basically nothing. Judges, a corporate tax cut, and a whole helluva lot of spending... all the rest are executive orders that will pass like bad mexican food in the middle of the night.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Maj. Bill Martin on July 12, 2019, 04:03:24 pm
@Maj. Bill Martin
I don't really care about the impetus, the reasons, whatever. What matters is what he has done since he attained the office.

It matters very much in terms of the argument that "Trump is the reason the Democrats have become so radical and have dug in their heels."  Because if Trump isn't the real reason, and this is a route on which they were going to embark anyway, then the justification for some Republicans to try to tear him down isn't as strong.

Quote
Well, hold on, because it's gonna get rough. You ain't going to have a rift in the Democrats, with a bunch of butthurt Berinie-ites staying home. You are not going to have anything cropping up that will matter. They are so very pissed off by now that they will very eagerly vote en-bloc against the Tumpy one.

Like I said, I ain't saying it's so, but it is very possible that Tump is the author of a mighty blue wave.

That blue wave wouldn't be a smidge smaller if it was someone like Ted Cruz.  It would only be smaller if it was a more moderate Republican who endorsed more of the views held by Democrats.  Which, of course, might well lead to a lack of support from conservatives who detest that sort of thing.

And just to clarify, I was very strongly anti-Trump during the primaries because of the way he behaved.  @Mesaclone laid out a well-reasoned case (to me, anyway....) why supporting Trump in the general election made sense despite the fact that Trump was so detestable personally.  Would I have preferred someone else?  Sure -- I didn't vote for the guy in the primaries.  And I very much wish he'd have decided only to serve one term and then turned it over to some staunch conservative who didn't have all that baggage.

But he didn't.  So the reality with which we are currently faced is that he's going to be the GOP nominee, and someone much further to the left is going to be the Democrat nominee.  How we all choose to respond to that reality is obviously an individual choice.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: goatprairie on July 12, 2019, 04:38:24 pm
I think this depends on whether you view Trump as the action, or the reaction.  I think the nomination/election of Trump was the reaction by a whole lot of folks to the Democrats leftward acceleration over the course of the last decade.  Because Obama did move the country left in a lot of ways, but more importantly, I believe he created a mindset among the left that they "owned" the tide of political debate in this country.  That they are entitled to power simply because of their virtue.  And I believe that was evident before Trump took office.  Trump won because other Republicans failed to respond to that aggressively enough to satisfy voters.

Bernie Sanders was the canary in the coal mine.  He's a guy who would have been laughed out of the race a decade ago because he was an avowed socialist.  And yet, he had all the enthusiasm in the Democrat party, and would have won the nomination if black voters had not gone overwhelmingly for Hillary.  And he did that not by running against Trump, but by running against the "moderates" in the Democrat Party itself.  And even Bernie's success was just the logical continuation of things like Occupy Wall Street, the overnight shift in gay marriage, and Obama reversing himself and moving hard left on immigration with DACA. 

Those things all preceded Trump as the lightning rod, and reflect a remarkable degree of leftward movement in the country over a short period of time.
"Bernie Sanders was the canary in the coal mine"
Yes, avowed socialists in the Dem Party couldn't have gotten any traction decades ago. Now they're legitimate threats to win the Dem Party nomination for president and are shaping the thoughts and ideas of Dem programs.
What happened? They're getting a ton of support from millennials and other ignorant youthful voters who somehow think we're living in the third world country, and only socialist ideas can save the country and the world. Their skulls of mush were mostlyinfluenced and ruined in school.
 Which proves academia is the biggest threat of the three-headed lib/leftist monster which includes academia, the media, and the entertainment industry.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Maj. Bill Martin on July 12, 2019, 05:05:05 pm
"Bernie Sanders was the canary in the coal mine"
Yes, avowed socialists in the Dem Party couldn't have gotten any traction decades ago. Now they're legitimate threats to win the Dem Party nomination for president and are shaping the thoughts and ideas of Dem programs.
What happened? They're getting a ton of support from millennials and other ignorant youthful voters who somehow think we're living in the third world country, and only socialist ideas can save the country and the world. Their skulls of mush were mostlyinfluenced and ruined in school.
 Which proves academia is the biggest threat of the three-headed lib/leftist monster which includes academia, the media, and the entertainment industry.

Exactly.  And again, Bernie didn't get that support by being anti-Trump.  He got it by being anti-Hillary/anti-moderate Democrat.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: roamer_1 on July 12, 2019, 06:13:39 pm
It matters very much in terms of the argument that "Trump is the reason the Democrats have become so radical and have dug in their heels."  Because if Trump isn't the real reason, and this is a route on which they were going to embark anyway, then the justification for some Republicans to try to tear him down isn't as strong.

To a degree you're right - They dd the very same thing to Bush, and would do the same to any threat.
It is a matter of degree. And YES, Tump has stoked em up, white hot.

Quote
That blue wave wouldn't be a smidge smaller if it was someone like Ted Cruz. 

Yes, I think it would... Largely because Cruz is not in the business of tearing people down without purpose.

Quote
But he didn't.  So the reality with which we are currently faced is that he's going to be the GOP nominee, and someone much further to the left is going to be the Democrat nominee.  How we all choose to respond to that reality is obviously an individual choice.

Not that much further. Six of one, half-dozen of the other.  :shrug:
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: jafo2010 on July 12, 2019, 06:59:42 pm
What the heck does serious Democrat even mean?  Almost an oxymoron!

Sanders in 2016 largely represented the anti-Clinton vote.  I believe you will hear your serious Democomie announce in September or October.  Let the rabble clown car have their idiotic debates, and yes, they were purely idiotic!

Come the fall, the serious candidate announces and appears as Joan of Arc coming to the rescue.

Steyer will be another Jeb.  Spend $100 million+ to get 1-2%. 

It has long been my contention that a lot of thought and planning went into the Dem contest.  I believe much of what is going on is choreographed.  I believe 8-10 of the candidates entered for the benefit of solely diluting the vote for Sanders.

I have seen nothing that indicates HR Clinton will not enter the race in the fall.  THERE....your serious candidate, or so she will appear in a couple months after the Dems' bashing one another.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: sneakypete on July 12, 2019, 09:51:26 pm
@Maj. Bill Martin
I think you are wrong - But not for the reason you state.
Yes I care somewhat about tone - Civility is important, and one can be firm in conviction without being boorish. But more to the point, he pisses people off just for the sake of pissing them off, with nothing to gain...

@roamer_1

I disagree. It is his negotiating strategy. He pisses off his opponents to throw them off balance so they make mistakes. One mistake is to focus on what he says instead of what he is doing. Keep in mind these are usually people nobody ever says "No" to,and they lose ALL their cool when this happens.

Mad people make mistakes. The biggest one is doing and saying what they WANT to do and say instead of what they NEED to do and say to come out on top.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: roamer_1 on July 12, 2019, 10:02:17 pm
@roamer_1

I disagree. It is his negotiating strategy. He pisses off his opponents to throw them off balance so they make mistakes. One mistake is to focus on what he says instead of what he is doing. Keep in mind these are usually people nobody ever says "No" to,and they lose ALL their cool when this happens.

Mad people make mistakes. The biggest one is doing and saying what they WANT to do and say instead of what they NEED to do and say to come out on top.


Well I think that is more underwater 64 dimensional chess strategery and wishful thinking. @sneakypete .

Even if it is true, it seems to be a mighty poor strategy, as he loses way more than he wins.  :shrug:

But I do not think it's true. I think he's just an ass.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: sneakypete on July 12, 2019, 10:09:10 pm

Well I think that is more underwater 64 dimensional chess strategery and wishful thinking. @sneakypete .

Even if it is true, it seems to be a mighty poor strategy, as he loses way more than he wins.  :shrug:

But I do not think it's true. I think he's just an ass.

@roamer_1

So what? We NEED someone strong to run the country. Look at what those wuss asshats,Carter and the Bush Crime Family did. You want to go back to surrendering to the left because you ARE the left,or do you want a president that will stand up to them?
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: roamer_1 on July 12, 2019, 10:15:30 pm
@roamer_1

So what? We NEED someone strong to run the country. Look at what those wuss asshats,Carter and the Bush Crime Family did. You want to go back to surrendering to the left because you ARE the left,or do you want a president that will stand up to them?

@sneakypete
A false proposition.
Tump isn't standing up to anything. He blusters and threatens, and makes a big stink, and then folds like a 2 dollar lawn chair.

Then he takes a victory lap.
woohoo.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: sneakypete on July 12, 2019, 10:36:56 pm
@sneakypete
A false proposition.
Tump isn't standing up to anything. He blusters and threatens, and makes a big stink, and then folds like a 2 dollar lawn chair.

Then he takes a victory lap.
woohoo.

@roamer_1

Yeah,that must be why so many Dim and RINO heads are exploding,right?

"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: roamer_1 on July 12, 2019, 10:41:13 pm
Yeah,that must be why so many Dim and RINO heads are exploding,right?


@sneakypete
Then you should have no problem listing his wins - REAL wins. Executive orders don't count.

Quote
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

You got that much right alright.
All y'all are so happy to see someone poke his finger in their eye, that literally, nothing else matters.
Which must be enough, because that's all you're getting.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: sneakypete on July 12, 2019, 10:43:07 pm
@sneakypete
Then you should have no problem listing his wins - REAL wins. Executive orders don't count.

You got that much right alright.
All y'all are so happy to see someone poke his finger in their eye, that literally, nothing else matters.
Which must be enough, because that's all you're getting.

@roamer_1

Why bother when you are just going to ignore them or tell me I am wrong because of your biases and refusal to admit you are wrong.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: roamer_1 on July 12, 2019, 10:46:50 pm
@roamer_1

Why bother when you are just going to ignore them or tell me I am wrong because of your biases and refusal to admit you are wrong.

@sneakypete
Naw. You won't play because you've got nothing.
Take away his EOs and he's done damn little, and much less than that is conservative.

Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: sneakypete on July 12, 2019, 11:11:27 pm
@sneakypete
Naw. You won't play because you've got nothing.
Take away his EOs and he's done damn little, and much less than that is conservative.

@roamer_1

Granted,he hasn't done as much as he could have done,but this IS BECAUSE OF PEOPLE LIKE YOU attacking him all the time instead of letting your local politicians know you support him.

This is 21st Century America,and no politician can accomplish much without political support from his or her party,as well as registered voters from his or her party. It's called "influence".
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: roamer_1 on July 13, 2019, 12:17:07 am
Granted,he hasn't done as much as he could have done,but this IS BECAUSE OF PEOPLE LIKE YOU attacking him all the time instead of letting your local politicians know you support him.

@sneakypete
No, he hasn't done much of anything, and what he has done is spend more money than Obama - That alone is a 'no sale'.

Seems to me that support has to be earned.
All I have seen so far is a battleship mouth and a rowboat ass.

Quote
This is 21st Century America,and no politician can accomplish much without political support from his or her party,as well as registered voters from his or her party. It's called "influence".

You're barking up the wrong tree.
I walked away from the Republicans in 07 in total disgust, and so far I ain't seen a damn thing that makes me want to go back. *SPIT*
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: roamer_1 on July 13, 2019, 01:18:03 am
By the by... It is a curious thing to me @sneakypete , your unswerving support of his loudmouth antics - That you often become gleeful with it...

Being what you are, I would think you would recognize the big bar room drunk hollering his fool head off about how tough he is...And you'd know the real curly wolf is the quiet one in a dark corner with his back to the wall...

I have come to expect it from them eastern folks, where it seems that bluster is what passes for tough... But you're a Colorado boy, back up in the sticks, with callouses on your hands and fighting in your past.

For the life of me, I don't get what you're seeing.  :shrug:
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Hoodat on July 13, 2019, 01:21:14 am
Quote
Can a serious Democrat please run for president?

These are serious Democrats.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: IsailedawayfromFR on July 14, 2019, 07:44:23 pm
I don't give a crap about the big blue rhinestone 'D', anymore than I do the big red rhinestone 'R'. Both of em are full of crap, and against the American people.

Voting for either one because of the designation is just as bad.
Communist imposition run by the UN, or global socialist 'New World Order' run out of the board rooms... Take your pick.

Classic liberalism is a whole lot closer to Conservatism than either party - As a proponent and fan of the Intellectual Dark Web, you should have noticed that by now.

@Sanguine
Because if Zell was still in office as a Democrat he would be voting for Chuck Schumer as his leader.

That is why @Sanguine says that, I believe.

And I agree with that sentiment.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Cyber Liberty on July 14, 2019, 07:48:54 pm
Because if Zell was still in office as a Democrat he would be voting for Chuck Schumer as his leader.

That is why @Sanguine says that, I believe.

And I agree with that sentiment.

You cut right to the bottom line with that one sentence, friend.  Zell talked a really good talk, but he was a Rat at heart when it came to forcing their commie agenda down our throats, starting with a vote for Majority Leader.  Did he make some good votes?  Sure, especially compared to some Pubbies and a lot of Rats, but that very first vote in January is the most important. 

The same applies to Manchin.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Bigun on July 14, 2019, 07:49:53 pm
Because if Zell was still in office as a Democrat he would be voting for Chuck Schumer as his leader.

That is why @Sanguine says that, I believe.

And I agree with that sentiment.

Not to mention following the party line at every turn unless allowed to deviate by managment.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: roamer_1 on July 14, 2019, 07:51:06 pm
Because if Zell was still in office as a Democrat he would be voting for Chuck Schumer as his leader.

That is why @Sanguine says that, I believe.

And I agree with that sentiment.

LOL! Because Republican leadership is any different from Democrat leadership?
You've got to be kidding me.

But Zell also would be voting with conservatives on social issues and on fiscal issues, more often than not, and that makes Zell way more an ally to Conservatism than McConnell or McCain't have ever been. Even dead, btw.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Sanguine on July 14, 2019, 08:12:26 pm
Because if Zell was still in office as a Democrat he would be voting for Chuck Schumer as his leader.

That is why @Sanguine says that, I believe.

And I agree with that sentiment.

Exactly!
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: IsailedawayfromFR on July 14, 2019, 09:55:31 pm
LOL! Because Republican leadership is any different from Democrat leadership?
You've got to be kidding me.
So it is your belief that GOP leadership in the Senate would ram down the throats of the Senate the nominations of Sotomayor and Kagan to the Supreme Court, right?

You must also think that Chuck Schumer would have held up debate on the nomination of Merrick Garland to the Supreme Court like Mitch did, right?

You are the one who is kidding, right?
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: roamer_1 on July 14, 2019, 10:00:28 pm
So it is your belief that GOP leadership in the Senate would ram down the throats of the Senate the nominations of Sotomayor and Kagan to the Supreme Court, right?

You must also think that Chuck Schumer would have held up debate on the nomination of Merrick Garland to the Supreme Court like Mitch did, right?

You are the one who is kidding, right?

I believe that it is left-foot and right-foot of the same dang thing.
Those that get all wrapped up in this partisanship game are fools and sheep lead to slaughter.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Hoodat on July 15, 2019, 12:06:40 am
Because if Zell was still in office as a Democrat he would be voting for Chuck Schumer as his leader.

Exactly.  In 2001, with 49 Democrats, 49 Republicans, 1 Independent, and 1 hard line Communist making up the Senate, Zell's vote put Tom Daschle in the Majority Leader seat.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: roamer_1 on July 15, 2019, 12:10:26 am
Exactly.  In 2001, with 49 Democrats, 49 Republicans, 1 Independent, and 1 hard line Communist making up the Senate, Zell's vote put Tom Daschle in the Majority Leader seat.

So what?

Seems to me that Republicans would do much better worrying about their own house than hating on the Democrats. What makes a coalition unified is a common set of principles.
Currently, the only thing that matters is hating democrats.
That is not enough.

Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: IsailedawayfromFR on July 15, 2019, 12:52:16 am
I believe that it is left-foot and right-foot of the same dang thing.
Those that get all wrapped up in this partisanship game are fools and sheep lead to slaughter.
No answer.  Obvious dodge.

Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: roamer_1 on July 15, 2019, 01:03:37 am
No answer.  Obvious dodge.

Not a dodge at all. It is exactly what I think...
And as predicted by our founders, btw, who hated the thought of partisanship.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 15, 2019, 01:07:37 am
Seems to me that Republicans would do much better worrying about their own house than hating on the Democrats.

The Republicans, for the most part, are worrying about the American house.  The top 2020 agenda item is stopping the real and present danger to our Union presented by the liberal socialists masquerading as Democrats.

It is not about hating them ... it's about defeating them.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Hoodat on July 15, 2019, 01:08:07 am
So what?

Seems to me that Republicans would do much better worrying about their own house than hating on the Democrats. What makes a coalition unified is a common set of principles.
Currently, the only thing that matters is hating democrats.
That is not enough.

Agreed.  Republicans have an uncanny propensity for snatching defeat out of the jaws of victory.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: roamer_1 on July 15, 2019, 01:19:10 am
The Republicans, for the most part, are worrying about the American house. The top 2020 agenda item is stopping the real and present danger to our Union presented by the liberal socialists masquerading as Democrats.

It is not about hating them ... it's about defeating them.

LOL! no they're not. They are instilling globalism. The battle is between old school socialism run out of the UN vs kinder/gentler New Word Order socialism run out of board rooms.

If what you said was true, the very first thing would be to tear the handles of power away from the moderate wing of the Republicans, and give them to the Conservative wing.

That is not what happened. Nor will it happen this go-around.

MItch 'the Turtle' McConnell and Lindsay 'freakin Twinkletoes' Graham have more power than ever. And most of the Conservatives have been defamed or ground up through the revolving doors of this administration.

You are not preaching federalism, fiscal conservatism, social conservatism, or anything else that would be a true and healing balm to this country.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: roamer_1 on July 15, 2019, 01:22:07 am
Agreed.  Republicans have an uncanny propensity for snatching defeat out of the jaws of victory.

That's right. The only thing left that you must search out to believe is that that is by design.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Hoodat on July 15, 2019, 01:35:10 am
We're at war with Eastasia.  We've always been at war with Eastasia.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: roamer_1 on July 15, 2019, 01:40:18 am
We're at war with Eastasia.  We've always been at war with Eastasia.

No, we are at war with Babylon.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Hoodat on July 15, 2019, 01:53:03 am
No, we are at war with Babylon.

Technically, yes.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: InHeavenThereIsNoBeer on July 15, 2019, 01:55:08 am
https://www.theonion.com/midwest-peace-talks-shattered-by-illinois-toll-booth-bo-1819564942 (https://www.theonion.com/midwest-peace-talks-shattered-by-illinois-toll-booth-bo-1819564942)
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: bigheadfred on July 15, 2019, 01:58:23 am
Merely my opinion.

 The dems don't care if they can field a good candidate because they are convinced no matter who they pick, they ARE going to win.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: bigheadfred on July 15, 2019, 02:00:22 am
No, we are at war with Babylon.

That explains that whore Kamala.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: InHeavenThereIsNoBeer on July 15, 2019, 02:00:24 am
Merely my opinion.

 The dems don't care if they can field a good candidate because they are convinced no matter who they pick, they ARE going to win.

Just like always.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: LegalAmerican on July 15, 2019, 02:11:50 am
This might be ominously a setup to select Michelle Obama as the nominee.

Strange isn't it that someone like her, eminently unqualified and unserious most of her "first time I am proud to be an American" life, might be more sane than what is currently the Democrat field?


WHAT?  That is a man.  http://youtu.be/WSmOuX6DtVU (http://youtu.be/WSmOuX6DtVU)

Error 404 (Not Found)!!1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSmOuX6DtVU&feature=youtu.be#)
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: LegalAmerican on July 15, 2019, 02:18:04 am
The Republicans, for the most part, are worrying about the American house.  The top 2020 agenda item is stopping the real and present danger to our Union presented by the liberal socialists masquerading as Democrats.

It is not about hating them ... it's about defeating them.


Yes.   

I agree, and with RINO'S like these with demon-rats...how can our country survive?  Then Lindsey Graham, who said if Trump fires SESSIONS..his presidency will be over..and no one will support his agenda. I think people need to look at CONGRESS..not president TRUMP.
----------------------
The 12 Senate Republicans who voted AGAINST president TRUMPS..National Emergency at border.

 Roger Wicker of Mississippi,

Marco Rubio of Florida,

 Rob Portman of Ohio,
 Susan Collins of Maine,
 Lisa Murkowski of Alaska,
Pat Toomey of Pennsylvania,
 Roy Blunt of Missouri,
 Lamar Alexander of Tennessee,

 Mitt Romney of Utah,

 Rand Paul of Kentucky,

Jerry Moran of Kansas

and Mike Lee of Utah.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: sneakypete on July 15, 2019, 03:17:29 am

 
----------------------
The 12 Senate Republicans who voted AGAINST president TRUMPS..National Emergency at border.

 Roger Wicker of Mississippi,

Marco Rubio of Florida,

 Rob Portman of Ohio,
 Susan Collins of Maine,
 Lisa Murkowski of Alaska,
Pat Toomey of Pennsylvania,
 Roy Blunt of Missouri,
 Lamar Alexander of Tennessee,

 Mitt Romney of Utah,

 Rand Paul of Kentucky,

Jerry Moran of Kansas

and Mike Lee of Utah.

@LegalAmerican

Truthfully,is anyone surprised by a single name on that list?
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: jafo2010 on July 15, 2019, 03:57:36 am
EVERY name on that list should be primaried in a national effort to get rid of all of them.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: DCPatriot on July 15, 2019, 04:14:44 am
Not a dodge at all. It is exactly what I think...
And as predicted by our founders, btw, who hated the thought of partisanship.

Ahhh....the irony.    :laugh:



Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: roamer_1 on July 15, 2019, 04:20:05 am
Ahhh....the irony.    :laugh:

You misspelled prophecy.
They were dang well right.

Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Jazzhead on July 15, 2019, 01:05:51 pm

Yes.   

I agree, and with RINO'S like these with demon-rats...how can our country survive?  Then Lindsey Graham, who said if Trump fires SESSIONS..his presidency will be over..and no one will support his agenda. I think people need to look at CONGRESS..not president TRUMP.
----------------------
The 12 Senate Republicans who voted AGAINST president TRUMPS..National Emergency at border.

 Roger Wicker of Mississippi,

Marco Rubio of Florida,

 Rob Portman of Ohio,
 Susan Collins of Maine,
 Lisa Murkowski of Alaska,
Pat Toomey of Pennsylvania,
 Roy Blunt of Missouri,
 Lamar Alexander of Tennessee,

 Mitt Romney of Utah,

 Rand Paul of Kentucky,

Jerry Moran of Kansas

and Mike Lee of Utah.

Those 12 Republicans will be proven prescient after the Dems take over after 2020 and declare a national emergency to give the President executive powers to fight climate change.    The WSJ in this morning's edition:

Quote
  [C]onservatives who applaud Mr. Trump's run around Congress should think again.  Progressives will exploit the precedent for their own purposes

It is always a mistake to sacrifice principal for expedience.   Conservatives were right to oppose President Obama's executive orders,  but expose their lack of principles by excusing such imperialism as practiced by President Trump. 
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Sanguine on July 15, 2019, 01:33:23 pm
Those 12 Republicans will be proven prescient after the Dems take over after 2020 and declare a national emergency to give the President executive powers to fight climate change.    The WSJ in this morning's edition:

It is always a mistake to sacrifice principal for expedience.   Conservatives were right to oppose President Obama's executive orders,  but expose their lack of principles by excusing such imperialism as practiced by President Trump.

Defending our borders is an actually Constitutionally mandated function of the federal government; climate change not so much.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Cyber Liberty on July 15, 2019, 01:42:24 pm
Defending our borders is an actually Constitutionally mandated function of the federal government; climate change not so much.

Besides, if the Rats win everything because of Trump's stupidity, as is constantly repeated by some Members, then they won't need EOs to get their way, the Rats can just ram anything they want through Congress as they did with Obastardcare.

The "polls" all say he's losing big (just like in 2016) and they're believed by many.  May as well pack it in now.  Get the survival gear and ammo before there's a run on it.   *****rollingeyes*****
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: skeeter on July 15, 2019, 01:49:03 pm
Those 12 Republicans will be proven prescient after the Dems take over after 2020 and declare a national emergency to give the President executive powers to fight climate change.    The WSJ in this morning's edition:

It is always a mistake to sacrifice principal for expedience.   Conservatives were right to oppose President Obama's executive orders,  but expose their lack of principles by excusing such imperialism as practiced by President Trump.

BTW the Wall Street Journal has zero credibility where border security is concerned.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: roamer_1 on July 15, 2019, 03:40:24 pm

It is always a mistake to sacrifice principal for expedience.   Conservatives were right to oppose President Obama's executive orders,  but expose their lack of principles by excusing such imperialism as practiced by President Trump.

That is exactly true.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Cyber Liberty on July 15, 2019, 03:47:31 pm
That is exactly true.

This is problematic because the Courts have established an "Obastard EO Supremacy Doctrine," where Trump cannot reverse EOs written by Obastard.  A Doctrine that has been written about in glowing terms on these pages.

Used to be what can be done by an Executive Order can be undone by Executive Order.  Those days are gone, which increases the likelihood it will take bloodshed to return the country to it's original course.  The Doctrine made Obastard a King, not an Executive.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: roamer_1 on July 15, 2019, 03:52:17 pm
This is problematic because the Courts have established an "Obastard EO Supremacy Doctrine," where Trump cannot reverse EOs written by Obastard.  A Doctrine that has been written about in glowing terms on these pages.

Used to be what can be done by an Executive Order can be undone by Executive Order.  Those days are gone, which increases the likelihood it will take bloodshed to return the country to it's original course.  The Doctrine made Obastard a King, not an Executive.

And folks are assuming the same to be true of Tump... cheering every EO like mad... When all of it is nothing but dust in the wind.

Not very long ago, Conservatives scorned presidents that ruled by EO - and not just Obama - Long before that. I still do.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Cyber Liberty on July 15, 2019, 04:41:22 pm
And folks are assuming the same to be true of Tump... cheering every EO like mad... When all of it is nothing but dust in the wind.

Not very long ago, Conservatives scorned presidents that ruled by EO - and not just Obama - Long before that. I still do.

The Obastard Doctrine does not apply to Republican Presidents. 

ETA:  Forswearing the use of EOs merely guarantees King Obastard's continued Supremacy. 
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Bill Cipher on July 15, 2019, 04:44:24 pm
This is problematic because the Courts have established an "Obastard EO Supremacy Doctrine," where Trump cannot reverse EOs written by Obastard.  A Doctrine that has been written about in glowing terms on these pages.

Used to be what can be done by an Executive Order can be undone by Executive Order.  Those days are gone, which increases the likelihood it will take bloodshed to return the country to it's original course.  The Doctrine made Obastard a King, not an Executive.

Absolutely not true.  The courts have simply held that due process prevents the arbitrary denial of a benefit granted, even if the granting of the benefit was initially via discretionary EO.  That is an ancient principle that long predates Obama. 
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Cyber Liberty on July 15, 2019, 04:47:55 pm
Absolutely not true.  The courts have simply held that due process prevents the arbitrary denial of a benefit granted, even if the granting of the benefit was initially via discretionary EO.  That is an ancient principle that long predates Obama.

A Doctrine now applied almost universally to Obastard EOs. 
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Bill Cipher on July 15, 2019, 04:56:13 pm
A Doctrine now applied almost universally to Obastard EOs. 

Gee, whatever happened to “just the facts” and no innuendo or speculation?  First, provide evidence of this “universal” application.
Second, if the EOs gave vested benefits, then due process requires that they be treated that way.  That’s the law. 

Or are we no longer in favor of applying the law?
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Cyber Liberty on July 15, 2019, 05:00:00 pm
Gee, whatever happened to “just the facts” and no innuendo or speculation?  First, provide evidence of this “universal” application.
Second, if the EOs gave vested benefits, then due process requires that they be treated that way.  That’s the law. 

Or are we no longer in favor of applying the law?

It's an odd little creature that you seem to have a problem discerning.  It's called an "opinion."  I've heard tell you have some too, but yours are Golden.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Hoodat on July 15, 2019, 05:10:09 pm
Gee, whatever happened to “just the facts” and no innuendo or speculation?

lol
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Cyber Liberty on July 15, 2019, 05:15:50 pm
lol

This is an opinion forum, and the theory is I can't have one because of the red boxes over my Avatar.   :shrug:
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Hoodat on July 15, 2019, 05:21:00 pm
Innuendo and speculation is only allowed to those unable to locate the abortion right in the US Constitution when pressed.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Cyber Liberty on July 15, 2019, 05:31:37 pm
Innuendo and speculation is only allowed to those unable to locate the abortion right in the US Constitution when pressed.

Or the "Predicate Clause" in the Second Amendment that allows the Government to force registration, insurance and eventual confiscation of personal firearms from law-abiding Citizens.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Bigun on July 15, 2019, 05:37:12 pm
Or the "Predicate Clause" in the Second Amendment that allows the Government to force registration, insurance and eventual confiscation of personal firearms from law-abiding Citizens.

Or the language that makes judges Kings.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Cyber Liberty on July 15, 2019, 06:04:37 pm
Or the language that makes judges Kings.

It took a century or two of judicial malpractice to get them Coronated, but there they are.  To the applause of only lawyers (and there they are too.  Courtiers).  All the makings of a 21st Century Feudal system.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: dfwgator on July 15, 2019, 06:39:47 pm
It is a shame that the Dems are reacting to Trump's professional wrestling-style themes of divisiveness, bombast and conflict by doubling down with the same.   It will be difficult if not impossible for any adult in the room to break through the cheering anti-Trump media, which exults in the hate.   
 

Maybe that explains why Trump does it in the first place....Because it is working.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Jazzhead on July 15, 2019, 07:32:43 pm
Maybe that explains why Trump does it in the first place....Because it is working.

It is one hell of a gamble to deliberately radicalize (and motivate) your opponent in the hope they become too radicalized to win the election.   If it works,  solid, but if it fails we may well see the end of the Republic.   
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Cyber Liberty on July 15, 2019, 07:37:56 pm
It is one hell of a gamble to deliberately radicalize (and motivate) your opponent in the hope they become too radicalized to win the election.   If it works,  solid, but if it fails we may well see the end of the Republic.

The dreaded Trump Tweets seem to be having the effect of convincing the Rats to drop their moderate masks, and telling us what they really think.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: roamer_1 on July 15, 2019, 08:18:17 pm
The dreaded Trump Tweets seem to be having the effect of convincing the Rats to drop their moderate masks, and telling us what they really think.

Sorry Cyber - That has not been behind a mask. We have all known the liberal agenda for a very, very long time.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Cyber Liberty on July 15, 2019, 08:36:46 pm
Sorry Cyber - That has not been behind a mask. We have all known the liberal agenda for a very, very long time.

He's not playing to us.  You and I have known, but I'm not so sure about our LIV brethren.   ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep****

They're the ones Trump needs to wake up if he is to "expand the base."
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: sneakypete on July 16, 2019, 12:37:40 am
Sorry Cyber - That has not been behind a mask. We have all known the liberal agenda for a very, very long time.

@roamer_1

What's with this "we" stuff? You pregnant?
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: roamer_1 on July 16, 2019, 12:47:07 am
@roamer_1

What's with this "we" stuff? You pregnant?

@sneakypete

'We have all known'...

We.. all..

Everyone in range.

If some of y'all weren't bright enough to be included, I apologize for the assumption.  :whistle:
Carry on.

Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: sneakypete on July 16, 2019, 12:53:50 am
@sneakypete



If some of y'all weren't bright enough to be included, I apologize for the assumption.  :whistle:
Carry on.

@roamer_1

Thanks! That's awful white of you.

BTW,bless your soul!
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: roamer_1 on July 16, 2019, 12:56:09 am
@roamer_1

Thanks! That's awful white of you.

BTW,bless your soul!

 :silly: :tongue2:
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Maj. Bill Martin on July 16, 2019, 12:57:55 am
It is one hell of a gamble to deliberately radicalize (and motivate) your opponent in the hope they become too radicalized to win the election.   If it works,  solid, but if it fails we may well see the end of the Republic.

This all goes back to the question of whether he is radicalizing them, or simply exposing their radicalism that already existed.  That may be the ultimate question that divides so many of us on whether he is a force for good or ill.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: InHeavenThereIsNoBeer on July 16, 2019, 01:02:38 am
This all goes back to the question of whether he is radicalizing them, or simply exposing their radicalism that already existed.  That may be the ultimate question that divides so many of us on whether he is a force for good or ill.

Tough for me to say, because if he's the one that's been doing it, he started before I was born.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Jazzhead on July 16, 2019, 01:31:31 pm
Maybe that explains why Trump does it in the first place....Because it is working.

You think it's working?   Have you seen the polls?   It's ensuring his defeat!
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Jazzhead on July 16, 2019, 01:33:59 pm
This all goes back to the question of whether he is radicalizing them, or simply exposing their radicalism that already existed.  That may be the ultimate question that divides so many of us on whether he is a force for good or ill.

But he's not doing a good job at exposing their radicalism.   He's turned the narrative away from the squad's radicalism and instead allowed the media to portray them as victims of racism.   
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Sanguine on July 16, 2019, 01:43:51 pm
You think it's working?   Have you seen the polls?   It's ensuring his defeat!


His polls?  Have you?  His numbers (fwtiw) look very good right now.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: skeeter on July 16, 2019, 01:52:14 pm
But he's not doing a good job at exposing their radicalism.   He's turned the narrative away from the squad's radicalism and instead allowed the media to portray them as victims of racism.   

As if the media needed an excuse to carry the left's water.

It wouldn't matter if Trump spent 100% of his time passing out candy in DC schools or ladling out soup in a homeless shelter they'd find reasons to say exactly the same things they're saying now. As they did with squishes like Mitt Romney.

The left decided on a strategy of polarization years ago. All Trump is doing is openly acknowledging it - because it is clear ignoring it is simply enabling it.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Bigun on July 16, 2019, 01:58:14 pm
As if the media needed an excuse to carry the left's water.

It wouldn't matter if Trump spent 100% of his time passing out candy in DC schools or ladling out soup in a homeless shelter they'd find reasons to say exactly the same things they're saying now. As they did with squishes like Mitt Romney.

The left decided on a strategy of polarization years ago. All Trump is doing is openly acknowledging it - because it is clear ignoring it is simply enabling it.

 :yowsa:  Spot on!
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Jazzhead on July 16, 2019, 01:59:07 pm

His polls?  Have you?  His numbers (fwtiw) look very good right now.

His polls show him getting his ass whipped.   
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Maj. Bill Martin on July 16, 2019, 02:09:58 pm
But he's not doing a good job at exposing their radicalism.   He's turned the narrative away from the squad's radicalism and instead allowed the media to portray them as victims of racism.   

The media is always going to portray the left sympathetically, and either bury or not report at all things they say that are truly offensive to most Americans.  They've done that same crap going all the way back to Reagan.  It's gotten much worse over the last decade or so as they've bought completely into the concept of "racial justice", "privilege", etc., where criticism of someone who happens to be a minority is equated to criticism of someone because they're a minority.  Anyway, in this particular case, the mainstream media generally buried the offensive statements made by members of "The Squad", and were already using the argument that "any conservative who criticizes them is being racist" even  before Trump tweeted.

The issue with Trump isn't how the media portrays what he says, though.  It's how did you become aware that people with the views of "The Squad" were a significant part of the Democrat party in the first place?   And how many Americans who you think were unaware of some of the horrible things they've said will become aware of them because Trump started this brushfire?
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Maj. Bill Martin on July 16, 2019, 02:11:16 pm
By the way, it just struck me how the title of this thread reveals how badly the author fails to comprehend the threat.

The people running for the Democrat nomination are serious.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: skeeter on July 16, 2019, 02:17:57 pm
The media is always going to portray the left sympathetically, and either bury or not report at all things they say that are truly offensive to most Americans.  They did that same crap going all the way back to Reagan.

The issue with Trump isn't how the media portrays what he says, though.  It's how did you become aware that people with the views of "The Squad" were a significant part of the Democrat party in the first place?

Trump is simply openly opposing these lunatics, and rightly tying the rat party to them. They truly are its motive force.

Of course they do not want to be opposed - surrendering the field to them as we have up until now has worked so well for them. 
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: aligncare on July 16, 2019, 02:21:26 pm
His polls show him getting his ass whipped.

Except that Trump has a track record in these matches to use as a barometer. And recent history tells us whenever these eruptions occurred, it worked out in Trump’s favor. In the end, he always comes out on top.

Some ask, is he really that smart? Does he plan moves in advance, or is he just lucky after he “blunders.”

No, he really is that smart.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Jazzhead on July 16, 2019, 02:37:53 pm
The issue with Trump isn't how the media portrays what he says, though.  It's how did you become aware that people with the views of "The Squad" were a significant part of the Democrat party in the first place?   And how many Americans who you think were unaware of some of the horrible things they've said will become aware of them because Trump started this brushfire?

I agree that's the issue.   But why cannot Trump (and other Republicans)  expose their radicalism without handing the Dems and their media a weapon to portray Trump (and by extension Republicans) as racist?     The narrative this morning is that Republicans, by not "speaking out" against Trump's tweets, are endorsing his racism.    If there's any discussion of the Squad's radicalism, I'm not hearing it.  All I'm hearing is outrage over Trump's racist trope and these four poor victims.    The above-the-fold feature in this morning's Philly Inquirer, for example, consists of interviews with immigrants who lament the times they've been heckled to "go home".   

The media is going to have a field day tying Republicans to Trump's love-it-or-leave-it screed.    The message that the Dems are embracing truly dangerous ideas is being lost in the media dogpile on Trump's Archie Bunker imitation.     

Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Maj. Bill Martin on July 16, 2019, 02:40:34 pm
The left decided on a strategy of polarization years ago. All Trump is doing is openly acknowledging it - because it is clear ignoring it is simply enabling it.

The problem is that not acknowledging it permits Democrats to paint a distorted picture of the political choices presented to voters.  The media generally won't cover damaging statements made by leftists, so voters don't even get to hear both sides for themselves.  What Trump has figured out is that the media will permit attention to be drawn to those controversies if they believe they can spin it to make Trump the bad guy.  The advantage we have is that the media is out of touch with much of the country, and so doesn't really understand that stuff they believe hurts Trump actually helps him with many voters.

Or perhaps more accurately, it may not make him look any better, but it exposes some pretty horrible things about the left that makes them look much worse.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Jazzhead on July 16, 2019, 02:51:43 pm
 This  (https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/15/us/trump-tweets-two-americas-blake/index.html) is the sort of disgusting commentary the left is spouting this morning.   Trump's merely a reflection of millions of racist deplorables.   The left hates us,  not the President.   But it's the President that gives the Dems the excuse to spout this divisive garbage. 

Things are going to get a hell of a lot worse before they get better.     
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Sanguine on July 16, 2019, 02:52:38 pm
His polls show him getting his ass whipped.

Got a link?
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Hoodat on July 16, 2019, 03:00:57 pm
But why cannot Trump (and other Republicans)  expose their radicalism without handing the Dems and their media a weapon to portray Trump (and by extension Republicans) as racist?     

Trump handed them nothing that could be portrayed as racist.  The Dems are going to create that weapon regardless of what Trump says.  And this is a perfect example of that.


The narrative this morning is that Republicans, by not "speaking out" against Trump's tweets, are endorsing his racism.

The narrative this morning is a lie.  And there is not a damn thing anyone can do or say to prevent or change that.  Even Chuck Schumer was on TV this morning citing the 14th Amendment as being the law of the land for "hundreds of years" with zero mention of how Democrats have opposed it through its entire existence.


If there's any discussion of the Squad's radicalism, I'm not hearing it.  All I'm hearing is outrage over Trump's racist trope and these four poor victims.

Maybe you should stop hanging out with liberals.  Besides, the only victim here is 'truth'.


The above-the-fold feature in this morning's Philly Inquirer, for example, consists of interviews with immigrants who lament the times they've been heckled to "go home".

Can't help you there.   The Democrat cities of the North are far more intolerant (and racist) than the cities down here.  But it is to be expected that a liberal paper like the Inquirer would push the Democrat narrative rather than report the facts of what a Republican President actually said.


The media is going to have a field day tying Republicans to Trump's love-it-or-leave-it screed.

This is tame compared to what I was told back in 2010 when Democrats were taking away my doctor and insurance.  When complaining that their Obamacare mandate forced me to buy their insurance simply because I breathed, they told me that I didn't have to breathe.

When the day comes where they start putting up the barbed wire, lining up cattle cars, handing out striped pajamas, and firing up the ovens, I will know exactly which side is doing it.  It will be the intolerant ones screaming "racism"  at others while practicing it themselves in full view.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Cyber Liberty on July 16, 2019, 03:35:22 pm
Got a link?

Preferably a non-media poll.  Media polls are not designed to measure, they are designed to influence.  The days of the Press being a neutral observer are long gone.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Maj. Bill Martin on July 16, 2019, 04:35:57 pm
But it's the President that gives the Dems the excuse to spout this divisive garbage

So Democrats are now publicly spouting divisive garbage because of Trump.  All they needed was an excuse to show us all how they have really felt all along.

Bingo.  This goes back to the "bitter clingers" comment of Obama, and the "deplorables" comment of Hillary.  Even John Kerry's condescending/insulting "I'm gonna get me a hunting license."  They've thought this about most of the rest of us for a very long time, but they were usually savvy enough to keep it under wraps because of the potential that it could backfire.  But Trump baits them into revealing those sentiments publicly, and the result is that voters get a better glimpse of who the other side really is.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Cyber Liberty on July 16, 2019, 04:41:22 pm
So Democrats are now publicly spouting divisive garbage because of Trump.  All they needed was an excuse to show us all how they have really felt all along.

Bingo.  This goes back to the "bitter clingers" comment of Obama, and the "deplorables" comment of Hillary.  Even John Kerry's condescending/insulting "I'm gonna get me a hunting license."  They've thought this about most of the rest of us for a very long time, but they were usually savvy enough to keep it under wraps because of the potential that it could backfire.  But Trump baits them into revealing those sentiments publicly, and the result is that voters get a better glimpse of who the other side really is.

When the Press telegraphed its intention to destroy Trump at all costs, it freed him to do what he wants.  Only people naive about the intentions of the Press don't see that.  Pelosi can see it, and is mad as Hell.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Jazzhead on July 16, 2019, 04:42:19 pm
So Democrats are now publicly spouting divisive garbage because of Trump.  All they needed was an excuse to show us all how they have really felt all along.

Bingo.  This goes back to the "bitter clingers" comment of Obama, and the "deplorables" comment of Hillary.  Even John Kerry's condescending/insulting "I'm gonna get me a hunting license."  They've thought this about most of the rest of us for a very long time, but they were usually savvy enough to keep it under wraps because of the potential that it could backfire.  But Trump baits them into revealing those sentiments publicly, and the result is that voters get a better glimpse of who the other side really is.

I understand what you're saying,  but most voters aren't politicos.    We were doing just fine for a few days there with Pelosi and the Squad fightin' like cats.   Now the narrative isn't the Dems flirting with extremism but Trump channeling Archie Bunker.   I'd say the Dems have snatched victory from the jaws of defeat.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: rustynail on July 16, 2019, 04:49:41 pm
 If you don't love it, leave it:   www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIxBmyRQlwQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIxBmyRQlwQ#)
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: aligncare on July 16, 2019, 04:52:15 pm
Preferably a non-media poll.  Media polls are not designed to measure, they are designed to influence.  The days of the Press being a neutral observer are long gone.

Agree. In fact, I cannot any longer dismiss the crazy notion floating around that a civil war is brewing. Right now, it’s cold. But could war ignite upon some unforeseen and troubling turn of events? I truly do not know the answer to that.

Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Cyber Liberty on July 16, 2019, 04:59:05 pm
Agree. In fact, I cannot any longer dismiss the crazy notion floating around that a civil war is brewing. Right now, it’s cold. But could war ignite upon some unforeseen and troubling turn of events? I truly do not know the answer to that.

It will be when the Normals start beating the crap out of the Press's precious "anti-fascists" in the streets.  "Objects in Mirror are Closer Than They Appear."
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Maj. Bill Martin on July 16, 2019, 05:02:45 pm
I agree that's the issue.   But why cannot Trump (and other Republicans)  expose their radicalism without handing the Dems and their media a weapon to portray Trump (and by extension Republicans) as racist?     The narrative this morning is that Republicans, by not "speaking out" against Trump's tweets, are endorsing his racism.    If there's any discussion of the Squad's radicalism, I'm not hearing it.  All I'm hearing is outrage over Trump's racist trope and these four poor victims.    The above-the-fold feature in this morning's Philly Inquirer, for example, consists of interviews with immigrants who lament the times they've been heckled to "go home".   

The media is going to have a field day tying Republicans to Trump's love-it-or-leave-it screed.    The message that the Dems are embracing truly dangerous ideas is being lost in the media dogpile on Trump's Archie Bunker imitation.   

The media will not report/focus on statements made by Democrats that they believe would offend or concern voters.  They'll just bury them.  That's exactly what happened before Trump made his comments -- they just buried the statements made by Omar, Pressley, etc..

But while the press narrative will never favor Trump, the more attention that gets drawn to that issue overall, the more likely people are to start finding out exactly what it was those women said that so pissed off Trump.  And my guess is that the contents of their statements is much more likely to piss off swing voters than what Trump said.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Jazzhead on July 16, 2019, 05:10:25 pm
  And my guess is that the contents of their statements is much more likely to piss off swing voters than what Trump said.

And I think your guess is wrong.   The Dems use tweets like this to brand Trump (and by extension, Republicans) as toxic.    Lindsay Graham is right - the President needs to aim higher.   The WSJ is right - the President's tweets foolishly gave the Dems a gift.   
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: skeeter on July 16, 2019, 05:10:33 pm
I understand what you're saying,  but most voters aren't politicos.    We were doing just fine for a few days there with Pelosi and the Squad fightin' like cats.   Now the narrative isn't the Dems flirting with extremism but Trump channeling Archie Bunker.   I'd say the Dems have snatched victory from the jaws of defeat.

Trump isn't a brain surgeon, but he knows how to brand. Its how he has done business since the 70s.

And its a game the left has been playing for decades while the GOP has been finger-in-the-nose oblivious. And have been having their ass handed to them by the rats time after time because of.

Thats what he's doing here - branding. And it will work, I will bet you my Roth IRA.


Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Maj. Bill Martin on July 16, 2019, 05:10:50 pm
I understand what you're saying,  but most voters aren't politicos.    We were doing just fine for a few days there with Pelosi and the Squad fightin' like cats.

I don't think Nancy Pelosi being able to portray herself as moderate equals the GOP "doing fine". 

Quote
Now the narrative isn't the Dems flirting with extremism but Trump channeling Archie Bunker.   I'd say the Dems have snatched victory from the jaws of defeat.

Pelosi was starting to do a decent job of distancing the Democrats from those extremists -- it risked becoming a "Sister Souljah" moment and creating the false impression that Pelosi herself isn't a nutbag leftist.  Those four could have become the sacrificial lambs that let the rest of the party look more appealing to moderates.  To me, that's how it looked like things were going before Trump spoke up.

Trump has now much more securely bound the Democrats to those four, and when the campaign rolls around and the ads quoting the Squad start showing up on TV and YouTube...there's going to be more than a few people agreeing with Trump's sentiment.

Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Hoodat on July 16, 2019, 05:17:09 pm
Pelosi was starting to do a decent job of distancing the Democrats from those extremists -- it risked becoming a "Sister Souljah" moment and creating the false impression that Pelosi herself isn't a nutbag leftist.  Those four could have become the sacrificial lambs that let the rest of the party look more appealing to moderates.  To me, that's how it looked like things were going before Trump spoke up.

Trump has now much more securely bound the Democrats to those four, and when the campaign rolls around and the ads quoting the Squad start showing up on TV and YouTube...there's going to be more than a few people agreeing with Trump's sentiment.

Correctamundo!  Three days ago, Pelosi was the poster child of sanity in the Democrat Party, a contrast against the four wackos.  Now she can only stand by and nod her head giving silent support to this train wreck. 
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Cyber Liberty on July 16, 2019, 05:33:17 pm
I don't think Nancy Pelosi being able to portray herself as moderate equals the GOP "doing fine". 

Pelosi was starting to do a decent job of distancing the Democrats from those extremists -- it risked becoming a "Sister Souljah" moment and creating the false impression that Pelosi herself isn't a nutbag leftist.  Those four could have become the sacrificial lambs that let the rest of the party look more appealing to moderates.  To me, that's how it looked like things were going before Trump spoke up.

Trump has now much more securely bound the Democrats to those four, and when the campaign rolls around and the ads quoting the Squad start showing up on TV and YouTube...there's going to be more than a few people agreeing with Trump's sentiment.

It's telling the donkey-faced bartender has 77% name recognition, but 19% approval (I saw that on TeeBee last night...Carlson I think).  It tells me Trump could be on the right track here. If he can tie all the Rats to her and her gang he's miles ahead of where the Enemedia wants him to be.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: rustynail on July 16, 2019, 05:44:35 pm
Correctamundo!  Three days ago, Pelosi was the poster child of sanity in the Democrat Party, a contrast against the four wackos.  Now she can only stand by and nod her head giving silent support to this train wreck. 
My thinking also.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: jafo2010 on July 16, 2019, 07:30:45 pm
People here underestimating Trump's savvy at forming the theater for the issues are doomed to defeat, just like Clinton.  In the 2016 election, Trump brilliantly defined the issues that the election evolved around.  He is doing it again.

He is elevating the Anarchist Four to be the leaders and heart of the Democommie Party, and Pelosi is trying to reign them in with not much luck.  If he is successful with establishing the playing field, the entire Dem field will be perceived as anarchists, communists, etc and the vast majority of thinking Americans will not vote for these slugs.

Sadly, the media are key players in this drama, and I think we have witnessed three years of Trump playing the media like a violin.  The media is radically biased, and Trump is using this bias.  Again, I say his strategy is brilliant.  Through the years, we have heard multiple presidents complain about the bias of the media, but Trump with his FAKE NEWS sentiment has in fact convinced many in America the media is not to be trusted, and that lack of trust is also reflected in polls.

I spent a number of years working in the media, and their polls are NOT to be trusted. And for folks that want to reference operations like Pew Research etc for polls, who do you think funds Pew heavily?  Well, if you guessed George Soros, you would be correct.  There are so many wealthy folks like Soros using large sums of money to influence you the voter.  Their influence did not work last time, and I doubt it will work this time either.  The American people are tired of being betrayed, and politicians, the media, and others have betrayed the American people for many decades.

The American taxpayer is tired of seeing undeserving people get things handed to them that they have to work hard for.  Trump promised to take care of Americans first.  THAT RESONATES!  All the nonsense that the clown car is running around spouting off just does not resonate!!!!  It doesn't.  Reparations are attractive to a small number, and there is a far greater number that are exercised by the notion, including people from all demographics.

The only person that stands a chance against Trump in 2020 is Clinton.  The members of the present clown car go no where fast!

Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: sneakypete on July 17, 2019, 12:44:26 am
His polls show him getting his ass whipped.

@Jazzhead

Someone harsh your buzz?
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Jazzhead on July 17, 2019, 12:46:47 pm
@Jazzhead

Someone harsh your buzz?

No, not buzzed at all.   I'm clear-eyed and sober,  and see the future in stark relief -  if Trump if the GOP nominee,  he will not be re-elected, and the Senate will likely be gone too. 

There is nothing more important right now than to avoid that terrible result.   

Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Cyber Liberty on July 17, 2019, 01:42:55 pm
No, not buzzed at all.   I'm clear-eyed and sober,  and see the future in stark relief -  if Trump if the GOP nominee,  he will not be re-elected, and the Senate will likely be gone too. 

There is nothing more important right now than to avoid that terrible result.   

That's your opinion.  Some share it, some don't, and the sun still rose in the East.  It makes the TBR world go 'round.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: goatprairie on July 17, 2019, 01:44:42 pm
On this latest uproar there are two groups of people on Trump's side...the devoted followers who love everything he says, and the people who will vote for him, like me, because there is absolutely no chance of voting for the current assemblage of anti-American, anti-capitalist, socialist scum vying for the Dem nomination.
Many of us in the second group despise the Dem congress critters in question, and in reality most of the rest of the Dem Party members. But we especially hate anti-Americans of whatever color. Personally, I'd like to add a few more things about the Dem scum.
Nevertheless, the worry is that not enough Americans will understand that while ill-considered, Trump's comments were nowhere near racist. The media just considers any criticism of liberal minorities as racist. That rule doesn't hold true for conservative minorities.
But again, many people in the middle third i.e. moderates might not see it that way. Many of those people don't follow politics closely and simply respond to whatever garbage is printed or aired by the lib media. A president spouting off like Trump is not deemed appropriate by many Americans who might vote for a more even-tempered president.
Some people say polls don't matter. I hope to hell they're right in Nov. 2020.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Bigun on July 17, 2019, 01:45:55 pm
No, not buzzed at all.   I'm clear-eyed and sober,  and see the future in stark relief -  if Trump if the GOP nominee,  he will not be re-elected, and the Senate will likely be gone too. 

There is nothing more important right now than to avoid that terrible result.   

How much money would you like to wager on that?

The Trump Steamroller (https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/07/the-trump-steamroller/)
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Bigun on July 17, 2019, 01:48:12 pm
On this latest uproar there are two groups of people on Trump's side...the devoted followers who love everything he says, and the people who will vote for him, like me, because there is absolutely no chance of voting for the current assemblage of anti-American, anti-capitalist, socialist scum vying for the Dem nomination.
Many of us in the second group despise the Dem congress critters in question, and in reality most of the rest of the Dem Party members. But we especially hate anti-Americans of whatever color. Personally, I'd like to add a few more things about the Dem scum.
Nevertheless, the worry is that not enough Americans will understand that while ill-considered, Trump's comments were nowhere near racist. The media just considers any criticism of liberal minorities as racist. That rule doesn't hold true for conservative minorities.
But again, many people in the middle third i.e. moderates might not see it that way. Many of those people don't follow politics closely and simply respond to whatever garbage is printed or aired by the lib media. A president spouting off like Trump is not deemed appropriate by many Americans who might vote for a more even-tempered president.
Some people say polls don't matter. I hope to hell they're right in Nov. 2020.

 :yowsa:

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67318307_2995573753817812_1715291117752156160_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_eui2=AeFbdjf1wKErC9HYc7kXORt5AnqjtoXMmPw97CMlH8c4zSgudPFltrCq2XrDDCA25kVLYhWB5SHM9wD8RlYzScNqC6axQO7WTq74rjIr-jMuhg&_nc_oc=AQkiWzmyPlxP8CgRYH8jcG21G0xbNzOXLegh6AlSR84ZEpBWnqgfwqQ3jShu6FsV2lo&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&oh=ab237979b8268753f8ac19ee54a7e5cd&oe=5DB5EE30)
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: catfish1957 on July 17, 2019, 01:54:16 pm
I have a SCV key chain that I occasionally have on me.  (Sons of Confederate Veterans, thugh not have not joined yet.)

I've had about a half dozen people through the past ask if I was a racist, or supported racist causes.....

I then remind them of who one of the greatest living SCV members is.   H.K. Edgerton.  This guy is like a hero to me.

(http://www.historicsullivan.com/events_2010_08_27_clip_image002.jpg)
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: catfish1957 on July 17, 2019, 02:02:04 pm
I know time is precious, but if you have an interest in southern heritage, and HK, this is such hard hitting 15 minutes worth watching

God Bless HK.


Error 404 (Not Found)!!1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUw_P6w8Rdw#)
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Bigun on July 17, 2019, 02:03:32 pm
I know time is precious, but if you have an interest in southern heritage, and HK, this is such hard hitting 15 minutes worth watching

God Bless HK.


Error 404 (Not Found)!!1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUw_P6w8Rdw#)

 :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Maj. Bill Martin on July 17, 2019, 02:05:13 pm
On this latest uproar there are two groups of people on Trump's side...the devoted followers who love everything he says, and the people who will vote for him, like me, because there is absolutely no chance of voting for the current assemblage of anti-American, anti-capitalist, socialist scum vying for the Dem nomination.
Many of us in the second group despise the Dem congress critters in question, and in reality most of the rest of the Dem Party members. But we especially hate anti-Americans of whatever color. Personally, I'd like to add a few more things about the Dem scum.
Nevertheless, the worry is that not enough Americans will understand that while ill-considered, Trump's comments were nowhere near racist. The media just considers any criticism of liberal minorities as racist. That rule doesn't hold true for conservative minorities.
But again, many people in the middle third i.e. moderates might not see it that way. Many of those people don't follow politics closely and simply respond to whatever garbage is printed or aired by the lib media. A president spouting off like Trump is not deemed appropriate by many Americans who might vote for a more even-tempered president.
Some people say polls don't matter. I hope to hell they're right in Nov. 2020.
All good points.

The reality is that the die is cast at this point.  Trump is going to be the nominee.  So the question for each of us is what we believe to be the best course to help the GOP hold/gain as many seats in Congress as possible, whether or not we prefer Trump to the alternative and if so, what we can do to maximize the chances that the Dem nominee does not win the general election
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Jazzhead on July 17, 2019, 02:18:36 pm
How much money would you like to wager on that?

I am not unwilling to wager,  except that the last thing I want to do is win the bet.   
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Jazzhead on July 17, 2019, 02:19:39 pm
All good points.

The reality is that the die is cast at this point.  Trump is going to be the nominee.  So the question for each of us is what we believe to be the best course to help the GOP hold/gain as many seats in Congress as possible, whether or not we prefer Trump to the alternative and if so, what we can do to maximize the chances that the Dem nominee does not win the general election

It is not even August yet, and more than a year before the election.   The die is not cast.   
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: roamer_1 on July 17, 2019, 03:29:36 pm
All good points.

The reality is that the die is cast at this point.  Trump is going to be the nominee.  So the question for each of us is what we believe to be the best course to help the GOP hold/gain as many seats in Congress as possible, whether or not we prefer Trump to the alternative and if so, what we can do to maximize the chances that the Dem nominee does not win the general election

Why?
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: sneakypete on July 17, 2019, 08:16:37 pm
Quote
No, not buzzed at all.   I'm clear-eyed and sober,  and see the future in stark relief -  if Trump if the GOP nominee,  he will not be re-elected, and the Senate will likely be gone too. 

@Jazzhead

So,you are just naturally delusional?

Quote
There is nothing more important right now than to avoid that terrible result.   

Yeah,whatever we do,we MUST keep the backstabbing RINO bastards in power,huh?

Pray tell,what would be the difference in the way the Senate votes,since half the alleged Republican we have now talk a good game,but always work with the left?

What we NEED to do is get rid of a bunch of those SOB's in the primary,and replace them with younger people the DNC doesn't have any blackmail on.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: sneakypete on July 17, 2019, 08:24:19 pm
It is not even August yet, and more than a year before the election.   The die is not cast.   

@Jazzhead

OK,bubba,how about throw out a few names of people that can beat him for the nomination?
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Jazzhead on July 17, 2019, 08:49:08 pm
@Jazzhead

OK,bubba,how about throw out a few names of people that can beat him for the nomination?

I am not suggesting that primary-ing Trump would be successful.   I am advocating that he be persuaded not to run for reelection, a la LBJ.   It am not urging that Trump be replaced by a "RINO" or Never-Trumper.   I want him to be replaced by a compatible candidate who can defeat the Democrat by appealing to both Republicans and independents,  help keep the Senate in GOP hands,  and thereby preserve Trump's policies and legacy.   That is a far better result than Trump running a quixotic campaign for re-election that ends in disaster for the GOP and triumph for a newly-radicalized Democratic party. 

I've suggested Trump's former U.N. ambassador, Nikki Haley,  who left the Administration on good terms,  as a possible GOP nominee.   Another good choice might be Liz Cheney, who's defended the President and shows real capacity for inspiration and leadership.   A Never-Trumper like Romney would split the party.     
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: truth_seeker on July 17, 2019, 08:58:34 pm
Has Haley expressed interest? No.

Kasich, Amash, Flake, McMuffin have. Gives the GOP their own stupid Squad of Four.

Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: sneakypete on July 17, 2019, 09:15:21 pm
I am not suggesting that primary-ing Trump would be successful.   I am advocating that he be persuaded not to run for reelection, a la LBJ.   It am not urging that Trump be replaced by a "RINO" or Never-Trumper.   I want him to be replaced by a compatible candidate who can defeat the Democrat by appealing to both Republicans and independents,  help keep the Senate in GOP hands,  and thereby preserve Trump's policies and legacy.   That is a far better result than Trump running a quixotic campaign for re-election that ends in disaster for the GOP and triumph for a newly-radicalized Democratic party. 

I've suggested Trump's former U.N. ambassador, Nikki Haley,  who left the Administration on good terms,  as a possible GOP nominee.   Another good choice might be Liz Cheney, who's defended the President and shows real capacity for inspiration and leadership.   A Never-Trumper like Romney would split the party.     

@Jazzhead

Ok,you named a couple of at least semi-reasonable names at first glance,but what makes you sure either would stand up to the pressure that would be put on them if they got the nomination? Neither are experienced at Presidential runs,and the wolves would be nipping at their heels and hoping to spook them. ONE slip by either,and the news and the political establishment would be demanding they step down in favor of one of the usual suspect/party insider they know they can control.

AND.......either would lose because they would refuse to fight.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: sneakypete on July 17, 2019, 09:17:19 pm
Has Haley expressed interest? No.

Kasich, Amash, Flake, McMuffin have.

@truth_seeker

Are any of them actual conservatives? Flake might be,but it's been a while since I heard anything from him.

If they are just unleaded Republicans,what good are they for anything but caving to the left?
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: berdie on July 17, 2019, 09:37:41 pm
Flake??? Are we talking about the same person?
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Jazzhead on July 17, 2019, 10:26:54 pm
Flake??? Are we talking about the same person?

I view Flake as a Goldwaterite.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Sanguine on July 17, 2019, 10:32:16 pm
I view Flake as a Goldwaterite.

Jeff Flake?  The Jeff Flake?
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Cyber Liberty on July 17, 2019, 11:05:16 pm
I view Flake as a Goldwaterite.

I'd get that view to an optometrist.  Barry would have detested that turncoat. I knew Barry Goldwater, and you, sir are no Goldwater.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Jazzhead on July 18, 2019, 12:13:16 am
Goldwater was my first political hero.  I read COAC when I was in junior high.
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Maj. Bill Martin on July 18, 2019, 12:40:54 am
It is not even August yet, and more than a year before the election.   The die is not cast.   

Okay...

1) Even if Trump drops out, the other contenders would have to run in primaries, which means getting campaigns off the ground, etc..  At what point in time do you believe it will be too late as a practical matter for other candidates to enter the primary?

2) Can you please point to some significant, objective evidence that Trump is actually persuadable in terms of stepping down.  Not just a feeling that you think he might do it, but some actual evidence of him being willing to drop out.  Because I don't see even a sliver of it.

@Jazzhead
Title: Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 18, 2019, 12:52:27 am
I view Flake as a Goldwaterite.

Jeff "Hello Global Citizens" Flake?   :silly: