The Briefing Room
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Skeptic on December 10, 2018, 08:57:22 am
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Homelessness has become a serious danger in many large U.S. cities. Some homeless are hopelessly dysfunctional with mental illnesses, some are criminals who fell out of the society they damaged, some are physically disabled and unable to work. Some are illegal aliens waiting for a construction crew to pick them up for cheap labor. Most of them have one thing in common; they don't have family or friends who would take them in and give them another chance.
Then there are the homeless people that can work and can function physically and mentally and arent a serious danger to society. This last crowd we've got the unlucky ones who were laid off and couldn't find work, the unlucky ones whose houses burnt down and they weren't insured, the unlucky ones who are good people but born into bad families who shortchanged them in life and denied them a steady start, broken homes, etc. You got some of them who were aggressively attacked and scandalled and left for dead by someone with more money and power than them. Its this last crowd that I'm focusing on right here.
The question is, what should we require and expect from these downtrodden hard and honest workers who lost it all? Getting out of homelessness is exceptionally difficult, even with a job. Starting with absolutely nothing is much harder than you think. What should we reasonably expect from these poor workers who depend on us to survive?
Here's my list.
The most important things a homeless person needs to get done in order of importance.
1. Get your proper identification. State ID card or drivers license, birth certificate and social security card. Without these things you cant get a job and you cant rent a house.
2. Get a mailing address. You can usually get an address in most American cities through a social service that you can use to retrieve your mail. My city is an exception. So you definitely don't want to be homeless here.
3. Get a job. If you can't find a mailing address to prove your residency to your employer you might just have to lie. Employers dont want to hire homeless people. If you tell everyone that interviews you that you are homeless your chances for landing a job shrinks by 90%.
4. Save your money. Saving your money while homeless is difficult but do your best. Get a bank account if you dont already got one. Do your best, we know its hard. Once you save up a few thousand dollars you'll be ready to re-enter functional society.
Dont let being homeless depress you. You can do it!
* NOTE: Less than a minute following this post my phone screen went white and then my phone restarted itself. Strange coincidence worth noting.
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What we shouldn't require of the dependent homeless
Some things are ridiculously stupid to require someone to do in order to reclaim a normal life and get out of homelessness, heres some of those things
1. We shouldnt require that a homeless person be exploited or coerced. Some evil folks love taking advantage of a persons powerlessness while they are homeless and believe it or not some of these street prowlers that target homeless people are famous sports and rock stars and politicians. Truth is, its easy to coerce someone who has nothing and it shouldnt happen, especially if all they want to do is work and reclaim a decent life.
2. We shouldn't require that homeless person be a member of a religious crowd, a political party or any other organization in order to leave the street. If they want to work for money and are willing to pay their taxes, thats all they need right there. Making them financially independent is the goal, not increasing their emotional dependency and complicating their lives with additional activities that eat up their precious time. Time that can be used looking for work and working.
Anyone got anything to add?
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Homelessness has become a serious danger in many large U.S. cities. Some homeless are hopelessly dysfunctional with mental illnesses, some are criminals who fell out of the society they damaged, some are physically disabled and unable to work. Some are illegal aliens waiting for a construction crew to pick them up for cheap labor. Most of them have one thing in common; they don't have family or friends who would take them in and give them another chance.
Then there are the homeless people that can work and can function physically and mentally and arent a serious danger to society. This last crowd we've got the unlucky ones who were laid off and couldn't find work, the unlucky ones whose houses burnt down and they weren't insured, the unlucky ones who are good people but born into bad families who shortchanged them in life and denied them a steady start, broken homes, etc. You got some of them who were aggressively attacked and scandalled and left for dead by someone with more money and power than them. Its this last crowd that I'm focusing on right here.
The question is, what should we require and expect from these downtrodden hard and honest workers who lost it all? Getting out of homelessness is exceptionally difficult, even with a job. Starting with absolutely nothing is much harder than you think. What should we reasonably expect from these poor workers who depend on us to survive?
Here's my list.
The most important things a homeless person needs to get done in order of importance.
1. Get your proper identification. State ID card or drivers license, birth certificate and social security card. Without these things you cant get a job and you cant rent a house.
2. Get a mailing address. You can usually get an address in most American cities through a social service that you can use to retrieve your mail. My city is an exception. So you definitely don't want to be homeless here.
3. Get a job. If you can't find a mailing address to prove your residency to your employer you might just have to lie. Employers dont want to hire homeless people. If you tell everyone that interviews you that you are homeless your chances for landing a job shrinks by 90%.
4. Save your money. Saving your money while homeless is difficult but do your best. Get a bank account if you dont already got one. Do your best, we know its hard. Once you save up a few thousand dollars you'll be ready to re-enter functional society.
Dont let being homeless depress you. You can do it!
* NOTE: Less than a minute following this post my phone screen went white and then my phone restarted itself. Strange coincidence worth noting.
Wow. I can't believe what I'm reading. If you're homeless, get a bank account? It takes money to open a bank account and for many accounts if you don't maintain a particular balance you are charged. Most homeless people don't have the money to open account nor maintain a balance -- they use the money to eat and survive!
Get a state ID, birth certificate, etc. -- again that all takes $$ --- money that is spent on survival on the streets.
Homeless people don't normally have access to desirable interview clothing, a shower and transportation.
The one that surprised me the most is your advice to LIE!! Seriously??
The statistics are alarming:
Nearly 80% of workers are living paycheck to paycheck.
39.7 Million people live in poverty.
6 in 10 Americans don't have $500 saved.
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Nearly 80% of workers are living paycheck to paycheck.
39.7 Million people live in poverty.
6 in 10 Americans don't have $500 saved.
What do you think we could do to mitigate those problems?
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What do you think we could do to mitigate those problems?
Nothing. We need to decrease our surplus population. If we can't throw them in jail then they should be left to die on the streets of their own accord. Preferable in a cold climate so to keep the smell down and not gag the productive citizenry stepping over them on the way to their jobs.
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Their votes?
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What do you think we could do to mitigate those problems?
Stop taxing production and income. tax consumption instead (less food, medical, and modest housing.)
Lower regulation and licensing bars, and reduce the troubles put upon employers in order to make hiring more attractive.
More than anything, the cost of government has to be cut to a proper level (less than a quarter of what we have now, hopefully a tenth of GNP), and the debt weight on the dollar needs to be paid, so the dollar has value again.
The very government you adore is the garrote upon the neck of Americans.
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You are looking down from "On High", making your list of "Most Importants" way, way down the list, from a list from the viewpoint, of a "Homeless Person".
One needs to start from what is most important for "Basic Survival" and then work from there.
Survival Rule of 3 and Survival Priorities
For real survival situations it is better to remember and prioritize by the four levels of the Survival Rules of 3:
You can survive for 3 Minutes without air (oxygen) or in icy water
You can survive for 3 Hours without shelter in a harsh environment (unless in icy water)
You can survive for 3 Days without water (if sheltered from a harsh environment)
You can survive for 3 Weeks without food (if you have water and shelter)
And then one can focus on odd jobs, better shelter, and steadily improving One's "Lot in Life".
At that point "Your List" can come into play.
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Stop taxing production and income. tax consumption instead (less food, medical, and modest housing.)
Lower regulation and licensing bars, and reduce the troubles put upon employers in order to make hiring more attractive.
More than anything, the cost of government has to be cut to a proper level (less than a quarter of what we have now, hopefully a tenth of GNP), and the debt weight on the dollar needs to be paid, so the dollar has value again.
The very government you adore is the garrote upon the neck of Americans.
:amen:
Work programs need to be brought back giving folks a chance to make a living and get some training.
Back in the '80's I had a friend who went through a nasty divorce; deadbeat husband deadbbeat dad. She wound up finding a job through a work program. The company she worked for rec'd incentives for hiring and training. She was able to secure subsidized housing and food and eventually was able to support herself and her daughter. It was heart breaking at times to see her struggle; they many times would have a can of soup and a piece of bread between the two of them for dinner and I remember her taking a piece of her old jeans in order to make her daughter's jeans longer so she could wear them so the kids wouldn't make fun of her for them being too short. I babysat for her while she worked at night (shift premium) and sometimes she would just breakdown in tears. She had a sister and no other family. No friends.
Her biggest stumbling block to her getting back on her feet, was the embarrassment that surrounded her having to seek help and get the subsidies.
I now wonder what she would have done if that program wasn't in place?
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You are looking down from "On High", making your list of "Most Importants" way, way down the list, from a list from the viewpoint, of a "Homeless Person".
One needs to start from what is most important for "Basic Survival" and then work from there.
And then one can focus on odd jobs, better shelter, and steadily improving One's "Lot in Life".
At that point "Your List" can come into play.
That's all right - But often circumstance prevents even trying - For instance, I know a LOT of guys who are homeless who have no percentage in excelling, because debt that cannot be discharged makes them entirely unable to succeed. Huge bills for college, child support payments, court demands wrt alimony and 'equity', and there is a weight on them they cannot bear.
I had a particular employee, a great worker, whose attachments to his wages left him with about 200 bucks a month to survive on. He lived in a shed attached to my shop for a while, and kept an eye on the place for me... All of us helped him out as we could, with canned goods, and clothes and such... We had him rigged up alright with access to the shop internet, and a decent TV... He lived better there than he had in years... Till the government decided he was getting rent in lieu of wage, which got me in trouble with the county for having living quarters in a commercial area...
By the time it was done, he was living in a box by the river, without a job, and I got hung with a big bill from my lawyers and a no contest decision to pay for.
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:amen:
Work programs need to be brought back giving folks a chance to make a living and get some training.
Right - But more than that, taxing income prevents savings. Taxing consumption (fair tax, retail(only) tax) allows or encourages savings. If you are up against hard times, you have the option to consume less - tighten the belt and make do, without the penalty of Uncle getting his rake off of you in spite of your difficulty. And a consumption tax puts the government into partnership with the citizen, it being in the interest of both for the economy to remain stable and productive.
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Interesting conversation. BKMK
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That's all right - But often circumstance prevents even trying - For instance, I know a LOT of guys who are homeless who have no percentage in excelling, because debt that cannot be discharged makes them entirely unable to succeed. Huge bills for college, child support payments, court demands wrt alimony and 'equity', and there is a weight on them they cannot bear.
I had a particular employee, a great worker, whose attachments to his wages left him with about 200 bucks a month to survive on. He lived in a shed attached to my shop for a while, and kept an eye on the place for me... All of us helped him out as we could, with canned goods, and clothes and such... We had him rigged up alright with access to the shop internet, and a decent TV... He lived better there than he had in years... Till the government decided he was getting rent in lieu of wage, which got me in trouble with the county for having living quarters in a commercial area...
By the time it was done, he was living in a box by the river, without a job, and I got hung with a big bill from my lawyers and a no contest decision to pay for.
9999hair out0000
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Stop taxing production and income. tax consumption instead (less food, medical, and modest housing.)
Lower regulation and licensing bars, and reduce the troubles put upon employers in order to make hiring more attractive.
More than anything, the cost of government has to be cut to a proper level (less than a quarter of what we have now, hopefully a tenth of GNP), and the debt weight on the dollar needs to be paid, so the dollar has value again.
The very government you adore is the garrote upon the neck of Americans.
Amen Brother @roamer_1 ! AMEN!!!
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2. Get a mailing address.
Van down by the river?
(https://media1.break.com/dnet/media/2009/2/68%20A%20Van%20Down%20By%20the%20River.jpg)
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2. Get a mailing address.
Van down by the river?
Hey. I've told you before... Stay the hell away from my place.
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Hey. I've told you before... Stay the hell away from my place.
Ah hell. Looks like that address is already taken. Maybe refrigerator box under a bridge is still open?
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"We" shouldn't require shit. They need to find these things out on their own, because you can't "make" anybody accept any of this.
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Couldn’t agree more @roamer_1
The number one thing that the homeless and economically disadvantaged need is this: a job...any job.
The number two thing they need? Another job. And another one after that. You can sleep when you’re dead. BUT the one thing the VAST majority of them do not have? The DESIRE to put in the real, hard, shoveling shit, eating crap sandwich WORK that it takes to alter their equation.
Now some will probably think I sound like a cold heartless sonofabitch...and maybe I am...but I am because I speak from experience. Have I been homeless? No. Have I been within days or hell, even hours of being homeless? You’re damn right I have. But I have worked two jobs through most of my life and long periods of having three at once. I once worked 9 months without one single day off, not a weekend, not a holiday...not a single day.
The most important factor to fix the problem? The WANT TO. And you can’t give that to someone else.
Sorry, rant off.
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One other factor, many, many of these people are receiving SSDI to support their addictions.
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Ah hell. Looks like that address is already taken. Maybe refrigerator box under a bridge is still open?
I don't know. But you've got to stop sneaking around with your camera. It's creepy. Heck the tenement gals won't even come over anymore with you hangin around with your box of wine, and flashing your ambassador credentials. And dude.... Mogen David? Really?
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BUT the one thing the VAST majority of them do not have? The DESIRE to put in the real, hard, shoveling shit, eating crap sandwich WORK that it takes to alter their equation.
I don't know the whole answer @Axeslinger ... but I do know this: It has to be harder on the bottom than one rung up, and there has to be a way to climb out... both of which are not true right now.
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I don't know. But you've got to stop sneaking around with your camera. It's creepy. Heck the tenement gals won't even come over anymore with you hangin around with your box of wine, and flashing your ambassador credentials. And dude.... Mogen David? Really?
I wonder if this is Frank's favorite:
(https://www.liquormart.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/650x650/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/2/3/23378_29.jpg)
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I wonder if this is Frank's favorite:
(https://www.liquormart.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/650x650/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/2/3/23378_29.jpg)
I can't tell... he's got all the flavors ever since he started that misbegotten shaved ice business.
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I can't tell... he's got all the flavors ever since he started that misbegotten shaved ice business.
You think it glows in the dark?
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I don't know the whole answer @Axeslinger ... but I do know this: It has to be harder on the bottom than one rung up, and there has to be a way to climb out... both of which are not true right now.
@roamer_1
Again, friend: I agree with you. I am all for helping those who are willing to put in the work to help themselves and absolutely agree with getting the government out of everyone’s way. But there are also those who choose to not have the desire...and I don’t partiularly care what happens to them. My father used to say: “You have a right not to work, but you also have the right to starve...your call.â€
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You think it glows in the dark?
Well, the ice is made with Philly water... :shrug:
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You think it glows in the dark?
I don't think finding out is worth the risk.
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One other factor, many, many of these people are receiving SSDI to support their addictions.
?? How do they qualify for SSDI if they've not worked?
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Well, the ice is made with Philly water... :shrug:
Speaking of water, the water cooler at work is stocked with Hagerman Springs Water. Which means it has been filtered through the plutonium waste at the DOE site just to my west--the Snake River Aquifer. It has an aura about it.
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?? How do they qualify for SSDI if they've not worked?
SSDI is a give-away program. And, many of them would have had some work history.
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?? How do they qualify for SSDI if they've not worked?
I think it takes about six months of "counseling" and maybe a "suicide" attempt thrown in, not to mention a voice or two in the head.
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You think it glows in the dark?
Black Light. 4 foot tube.
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About 2/3 of "homeless" are alcoholics/addicts and/or mentally ill.
I have seen many that drugged/drank themselves into mental illness.
And they adapt as they get worse.
They also lie, cheat and steal.
Generally they won't attend AA and NA meetings, since they are "not that bad."
Salvation Army and other programs are available. SA however requires a few days without a drink.
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Black Light. 4 foot tube.
Two separate items. How many liters does the tube hold???
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About 2/3 of "homeless" are alcoholics/addicts and/or mentally ill.
I have seen many that drugged/drank themselves into mental illness.
And they adapt as they get worse.
They also lie, cheat and steal.
Generally they won't attend AA and NA meetings, since they are "not that bad."
Salvation Army and other programs are available. SA however requires a few days without a drink.
It really is very sad. I used to volunteer at a food pantry and people would sometimes come in seeking shelter as well. More often than not the Salvation Army was full. How does one get to an AA or NA meeting without transportation? There are more people in need than there are programs.
We've also reached an opioid epidemic in this country to the extent that life expectancy is on the decline. These addicts and alcoholics are usually someone's mother, father, sister, brother, daughter or son. **nononono*
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You think it glows in the dark?
Only when it exits the body.
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It really is very sad. I used to volunteer at a food pantry and people would sometimes come in seeking shelter as well. More often than not the Salvation Army was full. How does one get to an AA or NA meeting without transportation? There are more people in need than there are programs.
We've also reached an opioid epidemic in this country to the extent that life expectancy is on the decline. These addicts and alcoholics are usually someone's mother, father, sister, brother, daughter or son. **nononono*
Many of them are also veterans.
That and our extremely bad human trafficking problem where I live prevents me from judging them too harshly. I can’t condemn a vet with untreated ptsd, or a woman who was repeatedly raped as a child to be groomed as a prostitute.
I can say that private charities are the answer, not more Big Gov.
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Only when it exits the body.
8888huh
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It really is very sad. I used to volunteer at a food pantry and people would sometimes come in seeking shelter as well. More often than not the Salvation Army was full. How does one get to an AA or NA meeting without transportation? There are more people in need than there are programs.
We've also reached an opioid epidemic in this country to the extent that life expectancy is on the decline. These addicts and alcoholics are usually someone's mother, father, sister, brother, daughter or son. **nononono*
There are more than enough recovery resources. Obamacare made it a very profitable business opportunity.
There is a shortage of people, desperate enough to work the programs.
I favorlonger sentences to hard labor and bread and water.
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Many of them are also veterans.
That and our extremely bad human trafficking problem where I live prevents me from judging them too harshly. I can’t condemn a vet with untreated ptsd, or a woman who was repeatedly raped as a child to be groomed as a prostitute.
I can say that private charities are the answer, not more Big Gov.
Thanks for pointing out these individuals ... too often we always assume drugs and alcohol. People do fall on hard times in different ways for a multitude of reasons.
You are right, we shouldn't judge people when we don't know their story or haven't walked in their shoes.
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You are right, we shouldn't judge people when we don't know their story or haven't walked in their shoes.
Sure. Why don't you show me the errors in my ways for being judgemental by inviting some of these folks over for Christmas dinner. Let me know how it goes and what time the police leave.
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Sure. Why don't you show me the errors in my ways for being judgemental by inviting some of these folks over for Christmas dinner. Let me know how it goes and what time the police leave.
How did you leap from "not judging" to inviting them over for Christmas dinner?
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How did you leap from "not judging" to inviting them over for Christmas dinner?
Easily. If you do not judge others then all people are equal to you. That means it isn't any bother to have some of these folks over for a turkey leg and egg nog since the only difference between them is you is that they are short on food and shelter. They are the same as you in every measure because you've made no discernment.
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No response on this thread then all the sudden 40 replies. I will sift through the conversation.
Wow. I can't believe what I'm reading. If you're homeless, get a bank account? It takes money to open a bank account and for many accounts if you don't maintain a particular balance you are charged. Most homeless people don't have the money to open account nor maintain a balance -- they use the money to eat and survive!
Get a state ID, birth certificate, etc. -- again that all takes $$ --- money that is spent on survival on the streets.
Homeless people don't normally have access to desirable interview clothing, a shower and transportation.
The one that surprised me the most is your advice to LIE!! Seriously??
The statistics are alarming:
Nearly 80% of workers are living paycheck to paycheck.
39.7 Million people live in poverty.
6 in 10 Americans don't have $500 saved.
Order of importance if you read what I wrote carefully. In most large U.S. cities there's resources for the homeless to get an ID card and proper certification to prove citizenship. You can't find work without identification and proof of citizenship, hence my recommendation to start there. Theres resources for interview clothing too, if not I recommend you ask a church for help. Churches like good people and will help them if they are willing to make their own part happen.
About the bank account. Some people have bank accounts when they become homeless and some of them keep them through their misfortune and right back into being in a home again. Once again, order of importance. If you are homeless and get a job you are wise to not carry your savings with you in case something bad happens. It takes a couple or few thousand dollars to get yourself upright, best to put that money in a bank account just to be safe.
If you are homeless and desperate for work and if telling a potential employer your living situation reduces your chance of getting hired 90%, then go ahead, lie! You are an American citizen, you want to work, you'll pay your taxes and this job is the only thing between you and living indoors, lie! Who wouldn't?
:amen:
Work programs need to be brought back giving folks a chance to make a living and get some training.
Back in the '80's I had a friend who went through a nasty divorce; deadbeat husband deadbbeat dad. She wound up finding a job through a work program. The company she worked for rec'd incentives for hiring and training. She was able to secure subsidized housing and food and eventually was able to support herself and her daughter. It was heart breaking at times to see her struggle; they many times would have a can of soup and a piece of bread between the two of them for dinner and I remember her taking a piece of her old jeans in order to make her daughter's jeans longer so she could wear them so the kids wouldn't make fun of her for them being too short. I babysat for her while she worked at night (shift premium) and sometimes she would just breakdown in tears. She had a sister and no other family. No friends.
Her biggest stumbling block to her getting back on her feet, was the embarrassment that surrounded her having to seek help and get the subsidies.
I now wonder what she would have done if that program wasn't in place?
Day labor was a reliable source of work to get started if you were searching for work. When I was 20 and doing a work search I would put myself on a list for a day labor company and they would call me for work 75% of the time. Day labor isn't reliable like it was years ago. I like your idea of work programs for responsible adults willing to put the effort in to get their lives together once again.
Interesting conversation. BKMK
What is BKMK?
"We" shouldn't require shit. They need to find these things out on their own, because you can't "make" anybody accept any of this.
I wasn't suggesting that we "make" anyone do anything. This observance of the hardship of homelessness and what they deal with led me to make this list. Some people look on them and demand more than they can do. Here's what is realistic.
You say we shouldn't require shit but we already do. Just like we require welfare recipients to do things a certain way and qualify for benefits.
Couldn’t agree more @roamer_1
The number one thing that the homeless and economically disadvantaged need is this: a job...any job.
The number two thing they need? Another job. And another one after that. You can sleep when you’re dead. BUT the one thing the VAST majority of them do not have? The DESIRE to put in the real, hard, shoveling shit, eating crap sandwich WORK that it takes to alter their equation.
Now some will probably think I sound like a cold heartless sonofabitch...and maybe I am...but I am because I speak from experience. Have I been homeless? No. Have I been within days or hell, even hours of being homeless? You’re damn right I have. But I have worked two jobs through most of my life and long periods of having three at once. I once worked 9 months without one single day off, not a weekend, not a holiday...not a single day.
The most important factor to fix the problem? The WANT TO. And you can’t give that to someone else.
Sorry, rant off.
I agree with you but you must accept that not all of them are worthless wankers, some of them would gladly work if given the chance. Those are the ones I was referring to. Those were the people I was getting on about.
One other factor, many, many of these people are receiving SSDI to support their addictions.
Yes, thats a really big issue. Also, some people who did work hard their whole lives lose out because cost of living increases washed out their financial bite.
About 2/3 of "homeless" are alcoholics/addicts and/or mentally ill.
I have seen many that drugged/drank themselves into mental illness.
And they adapt as they get worse.
They also lie, cheat and steal.
Generally they won't attend AA and NA meetings, since they are "not that bad."
Salvation Army and other programs are available. SA however requires a few days without a drink.
I would definitely not suggest staying at a Salvation Army shelter for the same reason you listed. All manner of horrible things happen in shelters. You're safer on the street than trusting public shelters. Might as well live in a commune in Crimea.
"bookmark"
Members do that so it's easier to spot participated threads or those of interest.
Okay, thanks.
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What is BKMK?
"bookmark"
Members do that so it's easier to spot participated threads or those of interest.
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Easily. If you do not judge others then all people are equal to you. That means it isn't any bother to have some of these folks over for a turkey leg and egg nog since the only difference between them is you is that they are short on food and shelter. They are the same as you in every measure because you've made no discernment.
But, even if they are equal, I don't like all of them. And, people I don't like I don't invite.
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@Skeptic, re:
Quote from: Sanguine on December 12, 2018, 08:28:08 PM
One other factor, many, many of these people are receiving SSDI to support their addictions.
Yes, thats a really big issue. Also, some people who did work hard their whole lives lose out because cost of living increases washed out their financial bite.
It IS a big issue and it doesn't affect only those taking SSDI, but everyone who has saved up for retirement.
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But, even if they are equal, I don't like all of them. And, people I don't like I don't invite.
Stop being so judgemental.
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Stop being so judgemental.
:tongue2:
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What we shouldn't require of the dependent homeless
Some things are ridiculously stupid to require someone to do in order to reclaim a normal life and get out of homelessness, heres some of those things
1. We shouldnt require that a homeless person be exploited or coerced. Some evil folks love taking advantage of a persons powerlessness while they are homeless and believe it or not some of these street prowlers that target homeless people are famous sports and rock stars and politicians. Truth is, its easy to coerce someone who has nothing and it shouldnt happen, especially if all they want to do is work and reclaim a decent life.
2. We shouldn't require that homeless person be a member of a religious crowd, a political party or any other organization in order to leave the street. If they want to work for money and are willing to pay their taxes, thats all they need right there. Making them financially independent is the goal, not increasing their emotional dependency and complicating their lives with additional activities that eat up their precious time. Time that can be used looking for work and working.
Anyone got anything to add?
I am of the belief that they need to want to be helped. That is my first requirement. There is a lot of help available...if you want it badly enough.
Sometimes living with no retsrictions or demands is very attractive. Maybe a lot of those folks don't want those restrictions..
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I see a problem with all these solutions, everyone(almost) is making the assumption that all of the homeless are unhappy living as they do. The reality is that there a large segment of the mentally ill who by choice refuse to take medications or live in a facility, then there are those that live on the streets because they just don't want to live by societies rules. Until, and the liberals and ACLU will never let it happen, we again institutionalize the mentally ill who are incapable of living on their own, and we take the "free spirits' off the streets whether they like it or not, those two segments will never leave the streets on their own.
We'll see how much more people will take of their parks , shopping centers and neighborhoods being taken over by drug users, drunks and pedophiles before they tell the liberals to go to hell. In O.C. when they cleared out the homeless encampment along the 57 Fwy, there were not many there that weren't there by choice. I know of a Church that had off ices and facilities not far from there that had a no question asked food bank, clothing, showers and laundry facilities(I know because the company I worked for built them) free for the homeless and poor along with job assistance. There are a ton of churches of all denominations in the area offering assistance.............if people actually want it.
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"bookmark"
Members do that so it's easier to spot participated threads or those of interest.
Okay.
Sometimes living with no retsrictions or demands is very attractive. Maybe a lot of those folks don't want those restrictions..
Being poor with no money is more restricting than working and earning money. Depending on others is more restricting than depending on yourself. You can easily observe this without having to go through it yourself. Standing on a corner with a sign seems extremely restricting, don't you think? Not to mention dangerous and shameful.
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Wow. I can't believe what I'm reading. If you're homeless, get a bank account? It takes money to open a bank account and for many accounts if you don't maintain a particular balance you are charged. Most homeless people don't have the money to open account nor maintain a balance -- they use the money to eat and survive!
@libertybele
No kidding. Just TRY to open a bank account without a mailing address.
Not to mention trying to cash a check or write a check and have it accepted if you look and smell like a typical homeless person.
Then try to keep it open without making regular deposits. If you are homeless,where are you going to get the money to do this since when you do have money,you end up paying too much for a room for one night so you can get clean and sleep comfortably.
The ironic thing is it can cost more to be homeless than to have a small apartment or room rented. The problem the homeless have is getting together enough money at one time for a months rent in advance and a security deposit. Not to mention getting the electricity and water turned on if it's not a furnished apartment. Yeah,they typically spend more than this each month for fast food,stuff like peanut butter and jelly from stop and robs,and an occasional motel room,but they are spending today's money today,and not saving anything because they don't earn much and it costs more to live like that.
Ever try to find a job when you have no mailing address,no transportation,and are barefoot because you have no shoes? I have,and it's not easy. Especially since people in that position normally have a bit of an attitude after being rejected over and over.
Get a state ID, birth certificate, etc. -- again that all takes $$ --- money that is spent on survival on the streets.
HOW can you get a state ID without an address for them to mail it to? How can you receive your birth certificate in the mail if you have no mailing address?
The one that surprised me the most is your advice to LIE!! Seriously??
Oh,hell YEAH! Lying is your most valuable survival tool if you are homeless and broke.
Do I know how to operate a piece of machinery? Of course I do! Even if I have never seen it before in my life.
Do I have transportation? Of course I do! I have a friend that will drop me off on his way to work. The same friend that lets me sleep in his spare bedroom until I can get on my feet.
Do I have any physical injuries or illnesses that might limit my movement or ability to work? Of course not! I am in perfect health and physical condition!
If you DON'T lie you will stay homeless forever.
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One other factor, many, many of these people are receiving SSDI to support their addictions.
@Sanguine
Which removes their incentive to do anything but get high and take a nap.
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You think it glows in the dark?
@Sanguine @Frank Cannon
I think Frank glows in the dark.
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?? How do they qualify for SSDI if they've not worked?
@libertybele
You didn't know that addiction is now considered to be a handicap?
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?? How do they qualify for SSDI if they've not worked?
@libertybele
The same way illegal aliens qualify for free stuff. I can't remember the names of any of the programs right now,but there are various programs out there to provide free stuff for virtually anybody BUT healthy people who want to work.
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Sometimes living with no retsrictions or demands is very attractive. Maybe a lot of those folks don't want those restrictions..
@berdie
When I was really sick with Agent Orange infections while living in Denver,I would walk to the closest Manpower office on the days when I was able to work. Sucked at first,but once they get to know you and understand you are not an addict or a drunk and can be trusted,you get the good jobs like driving trucks.
I almost always got offered a permanent starting position by the end of the day,but had to turn them down because I had days I could work,and days I couldn't do anything. Jobs like Manpower are probably THE ideal way for someone homeless to get back on their feet IF they live in a big city. The people there don't care if you are homeless or not. All they care about is "can I send you out on a job and not lose the contract?". Show up on time and work hard,and you are golden. They will even hold the good jobs for you if they know you are coming,and those are the jobs that allow a potential employer to judge your attitude and mental state,and to consider you for a full-time job without going through the whole song and dance of filling out applications that are tossed when they see you have been out of work for a while. They already KNOW you have been out of work for a while and have already decided to hire you when they make the offer. No worries about not having a car,not having a telephone,etc,etc,etc. You have already showed up for work there on time several times,sober and wearing clean clothes with a good work attitude,and that is really all they care about.
I ended up with a machine shop job from working Manpower once I got semi-healthy again and could show up for work every day. I was initially hired as day labor to sweep floors,haul trash,and do anything else that needed to be done,but made it known I also knew how to run a milling machine and an engine lathe.
Anyhow,there was a couple that showed up for work at the local Manpower office pretty much every day. Clean clothes,clean body,and no obvious mental problems. Probably in their mid-20's,and renting a room in a boarding house somewhere. Both were well-spoken,seemed healthy,and never showed up drunk or high,so I asked them one day why they didn't just get regular full-time jobs and an actual apartment. They told me they liked the freedom of day labor. They could work every day if they wanted,and then take off for a week to hitch-hike or take a bus to a concert they wanted to go to in another state,and were free to just stay there if they wanted because they took everything they owned with them when they went.
Kind of an ideal lifestyle as long as you are young and healthy,but I told them "It's going to suck all the air out of your universe if you ever get injured or seriously ill because one day you are going to wake up and discover Manpower jobs are your ONLY option,and no longer a choice."
They were genuine hippies,not like the ones you see on tv,so I doubt that anything I said to them made any difference in the way they lived or thought.
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@Sanguine
Which removes their incentive to do anything but get high and take a nap.
Exactly. Think of that - alcoholics getting paid to be alcoholics.
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Stop taxing production and income. tax consumption instead (less food, medical, and modest housing.)
Lower regulation and licensing bars, and reduce the troubles put upon employers in order to make hiring more attractive.
More than anything, the cost of government has to be cut to a proper level (less than a quarter of what we have now, hopefully a tenth of GNP), and the debt weight on the dollar needs to be paid, so the dollar has value again.
The very government you adore is the garrote upon the neck of Americans.
888high58888
All this, and address the mental health issue.