The Briefing Room
General Category => Health/Education => Topic started by: rangerrebew on July 19, 2019, 01:26:25 pm
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DEA tracked every opioid pill sold in the US. The data is out—and it’s horrific
Just three drug makers and six distributors were behind the flood.
Beth Mole - 7/17/2019, 4:12 PM
Between 2006 and 2012, opioid drug makers and distributors flooded the country with 76 billion pills of oxycodone and hydrocodone—highly addictive opioid pain medications that sparked the epidemic of abuse and overdoses that killed nearly 100,000 people in that time period.
Further Reading
With a 10-day supply of opioids, 1 in 5 become long-term users
As the epidemic surged over the seven-year period, so did the supply. The companies increased distribution from 8.4 billion in 2006 to 12.6 billion in 2012, a jump of roughly 50%. In all, the deluge of pills was enough to supply every adult and child in the country with around 36 opioid pills per year. Just a 10-day supply can hook 1 in 5 people into being long-term users, researchers have determined.
The stunning supply figures were first reported by the Washington Post and come from part of a database compiled by the Drug Enforcement Administration that tracked the fate of every opioid pill sold in America, from manufacturers to individual pharmacies. A federal court in Ohio released the data this week as part of a massive consolidated court case against nearly two-dozen opioid makers and distributors, brought by nearly 2,000 cities, towns, and counties. The local governments allege that the opioid companies conspired to saturate the country with the potent painkillers to soak up billions in profits. The companies deny the allegations, arguing generally that they were serving the needs of patients.
https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/07/76-billion-opioid-pills-in-7-years-how-pharma-companies-drowned-us-in-drugs/
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Only available by Rx. Blame manufacturers but not doctors?!?
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Only available by Rx. Blame manufacturers but not doctors?!?
True .... the manufacturers and distributors don't write the prescriptions.
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But...but...it is so much easier to treat the symptoms than the problem.
So Just take two and call me in the morning!
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Sounds like another round of socking it to legitimate pain patients.
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Sounds like another round of socking it to legitimate pain patients.
Hardly. Did you read any of the article? The amounts that were being delivered to very small towns without anyone questioning it?
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Only available by Rx. Blame manufacturers but not doctors?!?
That is a stretch - In fact, I will say it's not true.
And probably the lion's share of addicts and deaths were probably not prescribed.
It could be that the prescription began the addiction, but the docs will usually not increase dosages forever, as the addict requires. Morphine is a high you get used to, and therefore, the addict chases the high into larger and larger dosages - which inevitably leads to the street, not the doctor's office.
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Hardly. Did you read any of the article? The amounts that were being delivered to very small towns without anyone questioning it?
I read it, and experience told me the rest. When a bureaucracy decides on a solution to a problem it's always a bureaucratic solution, which always screws the people with the smallest voice. In this case, that would be the legitimate patients.
In this article there is no voice at all, because there is zero mention of those patients.
More fodder for cracking down on the unfortunate Doctors who have to have to explain to their patients why they will have to start tolerating debilitating pain.
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I read it, and experience told me the rest. When a bureaucracy decides on a solution to a problem it's always a bureaucratic solution, which always screws the people with the smallest voice. In this case, that would be the legitimate patients.
In this article there is no voice at all, because there is zero mention of those patients.
More fodder for cracking down on the unfortunate Doctors who have to have to explain to their patients why they will have to start tolerating debilitating pain.
That's likely right - One of the blatant failures of the article is that it treats 'opioid deaths' without seeming to excise heroin from those figures. How many of those deaths were from heroin? That would be a significant thing to know, one would suppose.
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That's likely right - One of the blatant failures of the article is that it treats 'opioid deaths' without seeming to excise heroin from those figures. How many of those deaths were from heroin? That would be a significant thing to know, one would suppose.
Dittos Fentanyl. That's a lot of deaths swept under the "Opioid" rug, complicated by the fact there are legitimate patients for that.
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Dittos Fentanyl. That's a lot of deaths swept under the "Opioid" rug, complicated by the fact there are legitimate patients for that.
That's right. Neither does it take into account the truckloads of morphine products coming over the southern border, where norco is available across the counter, and sold like Chicklets...
You can't tell me that folks have not done that math - buy em three for a buck down there, get em over the border and get roughly 5-10 bucks a hit on the street...
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Between 2006 and 2012, opioid drug makers and distributors flooded the country with 76 billion pills of oxycodone and hydrocodone—highly addictive opioid pain medications that sparked the epidemic of abuse and overdoses that killed nearly 100,000 people in that time period.
So, that's 12,666,666,667 pills per year, 34,679,443 pills per day. If a person takes 4 pills per day, that's enough pills for 8,669,861 people.
Estimates of people suffering from chronic pain at any given time range from 50 million to 100 million. That number doesn't include those suffering from transient incidents, such as surgery or trauma.
That quoted number seems horrible until you break it down.
Adding: obviously, opioids can be very dangerous and should be taken carefully and only as needed.
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So, that's 12,666,666,667 pills per year, 34,679,443 pills per day. If a person takes 4 pills per day, that's enough pills for 8,669,861 people.
Estimates of people suffering from chronic pain at any given time range from 50 million to 100 million. That number doesn't include those suffering from transient incidents, such as surgery or trauma.
That quoted number seems horrible until you break it down.
That is a brilliant point.
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So, that's 12,666,666,667 pills per year, 34,679,443 pills per day. If a person takes 4 pills per day, that's enough pills for 8,669,861 people.
Estimates of people suffering from chronic pain at any given time range from 50 million to 100 million. That number doesn't include those suffering from transient incidents, such as surgery or trauma.
That quoted number seems horrible until you break it down.
Adding: obviously, opioids can be very dangerous and should be taken carefully and only as needed.
Pocket calculators are a wonderful thing. I've won a few arguments by running numbers as you just did! thanks!
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Pocket calculators are a wonderful thing. I've won a few arguments by running numbers as you just did! thanks!
It's more of knowing what to put into the calculator.
And, another point - anytime you see "horrific" in a headline, approach it with extreme caution.
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It's more of knowing what to put into the calculator.
And, another point - anytime you see "horrific" in a headline, approach it with extreme caution.
"If it bleeds, it leads." Caution is advised, especially in the modern, now, a-go-go days of click bait headlines.
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I read it, and experience told me the rest. When a bureaucracy decides on a solution to a problem it's always a bureaucratic solution, which always screws the people with the smallest voice. In this case, that would be the legitimate patients.
In this article there is no voice at all, because there is zero mention of those patients.
More fodder for cracking down on the unfortunate Doctors who have to have to explain to their patients why they will have to start tolerating debilitating pain.
Boo-boo-boo
Explaining to a few why they have to put up with a bit of extra pain is better than putting up with hundreds of thousands of lives ruined by the medical equivalent of dynamite.
There’s a reason why you can’t just run out to the local feed store and buy a few sticks of dynamite to clear your field of stumps, and it’s not because “we†wanted to inconvenience people removing stumps.
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Boo-boo-boo
Explaining to a few why they have to put up with a bit of extra pain is better than putting up with hundreds of thousands of lives ruined by the medical equivalent of dynamite.
There’s a reason why you can’t just run out to the local feed store and buy a few sticks of dynamite to clear your field of stumps, and it’s not because “we†wanted to inconvenience people removing stumps.
We'll have to agree to disagree about how many millions of patients constitutes the "few" you would doom to a lifetime of debilitating pain. I'm not talking about dental discomfort here, but spine patients who get relegated to beds and wheelchairs. May you never have to care for one of them in your lifetime.
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That is a stretch - In fact, I will say it's not true.
And probably the lion's share of addicts and deaths were probably not prescribed.
It could be that the prescription began the addiction, but the docs will usually not increase dosages forever, as the addict requires. Morphine is a high you get used to, and therefore, the addict chases the high into larger and larger dosages - which inevitably leads to the street, not the doctor's office.
FL is covered with ads for "pain clinics" (and lawyers). Say it hurts, pay your "consultation" fee, get a script, go next door, rinse, lather, repeat.
My County Commissioner sends regular email updates. One talked about what the county was doing to crack down on the illicit side (is there any other?) to these places, and about the big fines they were levying against offenders. She didn't respond when I asked how much the county would be fining itself for providing them advertising space on the sides of our buses.
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So, that's 12,666,666,667 pills per year, 34,679,443 pills per day. If a person takes 4 pills per day, that's enough pills for 8,669,861 people.
Estimates of people suffering from chronic pain at any given time range from 50 million to 100 million. That number doesn't include those suffering from transient incidents, such as surgery or trauma.
That quoted number seems horrible until you break it down.
Adding: obviously, opioids can be very dangerous and should be taken carefully and only as needed.
I'd say that 8.7M number is high, as it doesn't account for pills:
1) Taken by animals
2) Thrown away
3) Taken recreationally
I've bought hydrocodone twice in my life, 40 pills in all, for my dog (prescribed to be taken "as necessary"). 38 of them were thrown away.
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I'd say that 8.7M number is high, as it doesn't account for pills:
1) Taken by animals
2) Thrown away
3) Taken recreationally
I've bought hydrocodone twice in my life, 40 pills in all, for my dog (prescribed to be taken "as necessary"). 38 of them were thrown away.
Additionally, as my County Supervisor told me, they count "pills," with no regard to the size of each pill. A 5mg Vicoden counts the same as a 10mg Norco. Makes it pretty difficult to measure relative dosages that way, comparing apples to oranges. My Orthopod would give me a scrip for the 10mg Hydrocodones when I had hip surgery, and I promptly cut them all in half for dosing.
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I'd say that 8.7M number is high, as it doesn't account for pills:
1) Taken by animals
2) Thrown away
3) Taken recreationally
I've bought hydrocodone twice in my life, 40 pills in all, for my dog (prescribed to be taken "as necessary"). 38 of them were thrown away.
I think we may have destroyed the eeeeeeeeeeevil drug companies thingie.
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FL is covered with ads for "pain clinics" (and lawyers). Say it hurts, pay your "consultation" fee, get a script, go next door, rinse, lather, repeat.
My County Commissioner sends regular email updates. One talked about what the county was doing to crack down on the illicit side (is there any other?) to these places, and about the big fines they were levying against offenders. She didn't respond when I asked how much the county would be fining itself for providing them advertising space on the sides of our buses.
That ain't how it is here. I had to call in to my doctor for a script. that script, hand written, had to be picked up by me, personally. and it was only good for that day, which means I had to go directly to the pharmacist, personally, regardeless of the line, and get it filled, pretty much immediately.
When you happen to be all stove up that day, those requirements are hell. And not just on me, but whoever has to take me around too, since I am likely too stove up to drive.
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I think we may have destroyed the eeeeeeeeeeevil drug companies thingie.
As long as the Press can find something to scream about, Big Pharma will always be evil. Because profit. If there's one thing they can't stand, it's people making a buck.
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That ain't how it is here. I had to call in to my doctor for a script. that script, hand written, had to be picked up by me, personally. and it was only good for that day, which means I had to go directly to the pharmacist, personally, regardeless of the line, and get it filled, pretty much immediately.
When you happen to be all stove up that day, those requirements are hell. And not just on me, but whoever has to take me around too, since I am likely too stove up to drive.
That's assuming the Pharmacy has it in stock. If they don't, they won't tell you when they will have it, you have to just show up each day looking for it. We encountered this at CVS a couple of times. We just walked it over to Walmart, they always had plenty.
I read of some of my Bookface friends who really had trouble in the small cities with only a few pharmacies. They'd have to drive 4 hours (one-way) to Phoenix to get a scrip filled.
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That ain't how it is here. I had to call in to my doctor for a script. that script, hand written, had to be picked up by me, personally. and it was only good for that day, which means I had to go directly to the pharmacist, personally, regardeless of the line, and get it filled, pretty much immediately.
When you happen to be all stove up that day, those requirements are hell. And not just on me, but whoever has to take me around too, since I am likely too stove up to drive.
Yeah, the legit places seem pretty uppity. One of the pharmacies gave me carp about how Molly would have to come in and pick them up herself. I said she was a dog. She finally handed them over when I pointed out that the prescribing doctor was a vet, as shown by the DVM in her title.
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Yeah, the legit places seem pretty uppity. One of the pharmacies gave me carp about how Molly would have to come in and pick them up herself. I said she was a dog. She finally handed them over when I pointed out that the prescribing doctor was a vet, as shown by the DVM in her title.
When there's a "crisis," everybody's a flippin' gatekeeper. For your protection, you see.
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That's assuming the Pharmacy has it in stock. If they don't, they won't tell you when they will have it, you have to just show up each day looking for it. We encountered this at CVS a couple of times. We just walked it over to Walmart, they always had plenty.
I read of some of my Bookface friends who really had trouble in the small cities with only a few pharmacies. They'd have to drive 4 hours (one-way) to Phoenix to get a scrip filled.
Again, not here. That script was written only to my normal pharmacy... if they can't fill it, then I have to go through the whole rigamarole again tomorrow. And while I could go back to the doc, and let's say, have a new script rewritten for the wallyworld, he don't like voiding scripts for fear of audit... He will, but not often. It is a very stupid and narrow way.
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When there's a "crisis," everybody's a flippin' gatekeeper. For your protection, you see.
Well, they made it so damned difficult that I started looking for alternatives outside of western med... Successfully for the most part... When it gets to where I am hurting too bad, I just get drunk off my ass, and pray tomorrow will be better...
I sure as hell won't jump through their hoops, and I can secure all the Norco I need without them now, if that's the way I need to go... and cheaper too.
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That's likely right - One of the blatant failures of the article is that it treats 'opioid deaths' without seeming to excise heroin from those figures. How many of those deaths were from heroin? That would be a significant thing to know, one would suppose.
Heroin would only be part of that.
Don't forget Fentanyl (100X as strong as morphine) and Carfentanil (100 times stronger than Fentanyl), which are showing up on the street and orders of magnitude more potent, and often deadly.
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Boo-boo-boo
Explaining to a few why they have to put up with a bit of extra pain is better than putting up with hundreds of thousands of lives ruined by the medical equivalent of dynamite.
There’s a reason why you can’t just run out to the local feed store and buy a few sticks of dynamite to clear your field of stumps, and it’s not because “we†wanted to inconvenience people removing stumps.
You think the problem will go away because some pill mill operations are shut down and legitimate patients are deprived of medication?
:silly: :silly: :silly: :silly:
What DO you think the Cartels are moving? If not Heroin, then substitutes (Fentanyl, Carfentanil, likely from China) where a little bad chemistry goes a long way toward making dead people.
Sure, doctors push pain meds. I have turned prescriptions down (had some left over from surgery, and still didn't use them).
As for dynamite, if people want explosives, they can make them. The only stumps the politicians worry about are the ones they make speeches from.
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But...but...it is so much easier to treat the symptoms than the problem.
So Just take two and call me in the morning!
(http://i42.tinypic.com/2zgvnkl.jpg) I had two major spinal surgeries, lumbar and cervical that did not relieve the pain, why don't you just go ahead a splain to me and the millions like me just how easy it is? Just how many more times and hours on the operating table and months of recovery do you figure I should spend letting the Docs treat the problem? Because my answer is not one more minute under the knife.
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(http://i42.tinypic.com/2zgvnkl.jpg) I had two major spinal surgeries, lumbar and cervical that did not relieve the pain, why don't you just go ahead a splain to me and the millions like me just how easy it is? Just how many more times and hours on the operating table and months of recovery do you figure I should spend letting the Docs treat the problem? Because my answer is not one more minute under the knife.
How much of the problem was caused by that surgery? Did it give you any relief?
I'm not arguing for cutting off patients who are in pain from medication, I'm berating the incompetency and patent laziness of a portion of the medical profession.
Anyone who has been told their symptoms are 'just in their head' by some sh*tty doctor, rather than simply "I don't know, I will refer you to a specialist who might", needs no further explanation.
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How much of the problem was caused by that surgery? Did it give you any relief?
I'm not arguing for cutting off patients who are in pain from medication, I'm berating the incompetency and patent laziness of a portion of the medical profession.
Anyone who has been told their symptoms are 'just in their head' by some sh*tty doctor, rather than simply "I don't know, I will refer you to a specialist who might", needs no further explanation.
I was in pain for decades prior to the surgeries, I had days that I had to roll out of bed and pull myself up to a standing position and still went to work because I had a family to fee, clothe and put a roof over. The lumbar surgery did not help, I don't blame the surgeon, spinal surgeries are crap shoot. As far as the cervical, again the issue was ongoing for years, I had four disks that basically disintegrated and were compressing nerves which caused permanent damage and was 'repaired' by replacing the disks with donor(cadaver) bone and fusing them but again the damage was done and only partially relieved.
Are there pill pushers out there? Of course, but I don't believe that the majority of doctors intentionally addict patients to create customers. What I haven't seen discussed is the insurance companies role in this, you attack the doctors as being lazy and prescribing pills instead of referring a patient to a specialist when in fact the physicians hands may be tied by the patients coverage or dictated by insurance company. I know when I had Kaiser they blew me off for years and I paid for a fairly high level of coverage. The funny thing was when I became unemployed and no one would hire an old fart even though he was a skilled trade old fart and my benefits ran out and I ended up on MediCal my new doctor had no issue with sending me to pain management who contrary to what you seem to believe sent me for an MRI, was abashed at what he saw and sent me to a orthopedic surgeon. The surgeon was even more alarmed at the damage he saw to my spine and we started discussing surgery. Mind you Kaisers response for years was to ignore the damage shown on the X Rays, tell me it was my head or to just 'tuff it out' for a couple of weeks and it would go away...........eventually.
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I was in pain for decades prior to the surgeries, I had days that I had to roll out of bed and pull myself up to a standing position and still went to work because I had a family to fee, clothe and put a roof over. The lumbar surgery did not help, I don't blame the surgeon, spinal surgeries are crap shoot. As far as the cervical, again the issue was ongoing for years, I had four disks that basically disintegrated and were compressing nerves which caused permanent damage and was 'repaired' by replacing the disks with donor(cadaver) bone and fusing them but again the damage was done and only partially relieved.
Are there pill pushers out there? Of course, but I don't believe that the majority of doctors intentionally addict patients to create customers. What I haven't seen discussed is the insurance companies role in this, you attack the doctors as being lazy and prescribing pills instead of referring a patient to a specialist when in fact the physicians hands may be tied by the patients coverage or dictated by insurance company. I know when I had Kaiser they blew me off for years and I paid for a fairly high level of coverage. The funny thing was when I became unemployed and no one would hire an old fart even though he was a skilled trade old fart and my benefits ran out and I ended up on MediCal my new doctor had no issue with sending me to pain management who contrary to what you seem to believe sent me for an MRI, was abashed at what he saw and sent me to a orthopedic surgeon. The surgeon was even more alarmed at the damage he saw to my spine and we started discussing surgery. Mind you Kaisers response for years was to ignore the damage shown on the X Rays, tell me it was my head or to just 'tuff it out' for a couple of weeks and it would go away...........eventually.
Wouldn't a good doctor tell you what is right for you, and let you and the insurance company figure out who is going to pay for it?
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I was in pain for decades prior to the surgeries, I had days that I had to roll out of bed and pull myself up to a standing position and still went to work because I had a family to fee, clothe and put a roof over. The lumbar surgery did not help, I don't blame the surgeon, spinal surgeries are crap shoot. As far as the cervical, again the issue was ongoing for years, I had four disks that basically disintegrated and were compressing nerves which caused permanent damage and was 'repaired' by replacing the disks with donor(cadaver) bone and fusing them but again the damage was done and only partially relieved.
Are there pill pushers out there? Of course, but I don't believe that the majority of doctors intentionally addict patients to create customers. What I haven't seen discussed is the insurance companies role in this, you attack the doctors as being lazy and prescribing pills instead of referring a patient to a specialist when in fact the physicians hands may be tied by the patients coverage or dictated by insurance company. I know when I had Kaiser they blew me off for years and I paid for a fairly high level of coverage. The funny thing was when I became unemployed and no one would hire an old fart even though he was a skilled trade old fart and my benefits ran out and I ended up on MediCal my new doctor had no issue with sending me to pain management who contrary to what you seem to believe sent me for an MRI, was abashed at what he saw and sent me to a orthopedic surgeon. The surgeon was even more alarmed at the damage he saw to my spine and we started discussing surgery. Mind you Kaisers response for years was to ignore the damage shown on the X Rays, tell me it was my head or to just 'tuff it out' for a couple of weeks and it would go away...........eventually.
So you finally got a decent doctor who recognized the damage and sent you to a specialist.
Now, let's suppose you had had a doctor who would have acted as that doctor did, NOT ignoring the damage on the X-Rays, years earlier?
Would you have suffered the damage you did? Likely not, and that's my point. Telling you to "tough it out" is as bogus as just telling you to take a painkiller and keep on keeping on.
Whatever the case may have been, be it pressure from the HMO to not adequately treat a degenerating condition, the incompetence of the doctor, getting tossed to the wolves because despite your coverage because it's expensive to do right, the Kaiser crew shafted you. That's precisely the sort of "Health Care" I can do without, and often have.
Two of the last three medical issues I have had, I diagnosed before I even went to the doctor (a hernia and basal cell carcinoma), the third, they shrugged off as "in my head", and I accidentally cured myself after two years of pain and misery (tobacco juice kills heliobacter pylori, who knew?), and only found out exactly what was wrong a year later when my father (who has better doctors where he is) started describing the exact same symptoms, and his diagnosis. I still don't spit when I use smokeless tobacco, and my digestive tract works just fine, no pain, no ulcer between the duodenum and the small intestine.
I'm not saying all doctors are lazy, or incompetent, but there are enough out there who fit that description, who will treat the symptoms and not the cause--if they even treat the symptoms. I have suffered enough at the hands of those who would not pursue a diagnosis nor refer me to someone who would. Unfortunately,those are the doctors who contribute to the problem by not acknowledging or diagnosing the cause of the pain a patient has, and then assuming the patient is just there for drugs, and then sometimes not administering them either.
If I had my way, you would not be in pain, and I'll pray for your relief.
As I have said upthread, a lot of this 'crisis' is a 60s redux relapse of Heroin, augmented by Fentanyl and Carfentanil (hopefully, but not always, adequately diluted to not kill people) on the street. That isn't a doctor problem, it's a drug/Cartel problem, and while effective pharmaceutical pain medications are being stolen or sometimes prescribed for profit by unscrupulous and greedy doctors and otherwise shunted into that street market, I would not stop those who have a legitimate need for the medication from having access to that. That need will never be identified by lazy or incompetent doctors, and you have suffered not only pain, but further damage because of that.
That's coming from someone who nearly lost a grandson to an OD, saved by the Grace of God, a convenience store clerk who saw him get rolled out of the pickup and locked the till and went outsid of the store to give him CPR, and a police officer who arrived with Naloxone to negate the Heroin. He's clean now two years (had a come to Jesus moment over that), and doing well (Thank God). But those were street drugs, not pharmaceuticals, and not prescribed.
One more thing, how much money are the insurance companies gonna save if the pain meds are cut back? After all, I'd wager Kaiser didn't want to shell out for your treatment, either, and there may have been some corporate pressure to look the other way.
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@Cyber Liberty
@roamer_1
ALL
How does Vicodin, also known as hydrocodone, kill someone?
First, I take hydrocodone in order to function, to move my arms and wrists. Without them, could not dress or comb my hair. I have an orthopedic pain specialist to keep me moving. The pain med keeps me moving, working on projects, going to church, teaching Bible class, going to casinos for fun, helping other people, having a life.
Again, how does Vicodin, also known as hydrocodone, kill someone?
Here is the answer:
If you take too many Vicodin, hydrocodone, your lungs relax too much and stop working and you die.
This should be explained to patients but I think doctors don't do it because then the patient will know how to kill him/herself and if that patient is also depressed, the patient could take too many on purpose.
Another situation: One time I asked the pain specialist why I didn't feel a kind of high or feel different like people say they do when they take that drug. He said it is because I have the pain so I feel normal when I take one. People without real pain, feel the high or feel the low.
If you have joint/bone pain any where in your body, arms, wrists, shoulders, neck, back, knees, go to an Orthopedic Surgeon to begin to find out what can be done to relieve the pain.
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How does Vicodin, also known as hydrocodone, kill someone?
First, I take hydrocodone in order to function, to move my arms and wrists. Without them, could not dress or comb my hair. I have an orthopedic pain specialist to keep me moving. The pain med keeps me moving, working on projects, going to church, teaching Bible class, going to casinos for fun, helping other people, having a life.
@Victoria33
I have an ex-friend who is a textbook prescription drug addict.
He started on Norcos for a busted leg... And when the leg had healed and the docs began to taper him off, he played em for a while, till they finally dried up. Then he found a friend with more than they needed... and another, and another... Since everyone I know winds up building a stash for occasions when they fall short, or pain requires more, he was basically wrecking everyone's stashes until they had no more... Using them till they quit him, usually with prejudice.
By the time it was done, he was on 10 10.5s a day, and running out in the third week of the month, going full on cold-turkey detox for nearly two weeks,and booting up again just as soon as he could source. Then he started filling in off the street till eventually he was fully supported off the street at between five and ten bucks a hit. Do that math.
And considering that he had no means... He started out alright, a superstar pizza delivery guy (making $3k/mo or more delivering pizza!! whoda' thunkit?)... Till his first DUI - One DUI, and you ain't a pizza guy no more. Totally blackballed.
I can only imagine what he did to make his fix after that. And all that while drinking near a case a day in beer. I can't imagine how close to death he came every day.
He never made it to heroin, but he was surely heading that way, as toward the end, he would have had a cheaper, better high. Last I heard he was on a county methadone program (He doesn't live here), being treated just like a heroin addict. He was gaming them though, and considered himself above the other addicts, refusing to participate in the 12 steps... and refusing spin-dry.
That's where I left him. I know he'll run out the clock with the county, and wind up off the methadone, once he meets the end of the judge's hospitality. Where he goes from there is predictable.
So I am not unaware that some can really abuse things. But that is very, very different from folks that need it to make do. And by far and away, those I know are mostly the latter.
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@roamer_1
You said: "I have an ex-friend who is a textbook prescription drug addict.
He started on Norcos for a busted leg..."
My question is, did he take "helpers" to make him feel good, before he broke his leg?
In other words, did he drink, smoke, chew, or use marijuana, another drug, etc., before he broke his leg? If one has a habit of one thing, it is easier to make another habit.
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@roamer_1
You said: "I have an ex-friend who is a textbook prescription drug addict.
He started on Norcos for a busted leg..."
My question is, did he take "helpers" to make him feel good, before he broke his leg?
In other words, did he drink, smoke, chew, or use marijuana, another drug, etc., before he broke his leg? If one has a habit of one thing, it is easier to make another habit.
@Victoria33
Sure, he's a heavy drinker and an occasional dope smoker. And I recognize your point.
Certainly an addictive personality - but then, that's just about everybody anyway. :shrug:
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@Victoria33
Sure, he's a heavy drinker and an occasional dope smoker. And I recognize your point.
Certainly an addictive personality - but then, that's just about everybody anyway. :shrug:
Yep. It's just a question of what makes you feel good. It doesn't even have to be something you snort, smoke, shoot, eat, or rub in your belly button. I'm down to (smokeless) tobacco and the occasional gallon of coffee...
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Yep. It's just a question of what makes you feel good. It doesn't even have to be something you snort, smoke, shoot, eat, or rub in your belly button. I'm down to (smokeless) tobacco and the occasional gallon of coffee...
That's right... I still have a beer now and then... and more than a few if I am hurting bad - which I'd rather than the morphine I was on... But verily verily, there but for the grace of God go I.
:beer:
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That's right... I still have a beer now and then... and more than a few if I am hurting bad - which I'd rather than the morphine I was on... But verily verily, there but for the grace of God go I.
:beer:
Yep. Thankfully, when I got my look into that abyss, there was a hard edge I was able to back away from. Some people approach on the slippery slope and don't get to step away.
Besides, morphine tends to be 'binding', and beer generally does not have that effect.
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Yep. Thankfully, when I got my look into that abyss, there was a hard edge I was able to back away from. Some people approach on the slippery slope and don't get to step away.
Besides, morphine tends to be 'binding', and beer generally does not have that effect.
I wish I could say the same... He led me out of Egypt draggin me by the nose.
But out of Egypt I am, and for that, eternally grateful. :0001: :0001: :0001:
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I wish I could say the same... He led me out of Egypt draggin me by the nose.
But out of Egypt I am, and for that, eternally grateful. :0001: :0001: :0001:
My motto since High School:
Dragged kicking and screaming one step further down the road to maturity... :shrug: I'm getting to the point where I'm a mite more thoughtful (prayerful) and put up less resistance most days.
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My motto since High School:
Dragged kicking and screaming one step further down the road to maturity... :shrug: I'm getting to the point where I'm a mite more thoughtful (prayerful) and put up less resistance most days.
LOL! That's right... Whether it's sense or just getting too old for it is still up for discussion...
:silly:
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LOL! That's right... Whether it's sense or just getting too old for it is still up for discussion...
:silly:
:beer:
It might be the latter. It takes a tremendous amount of energy to do all that stupid shi.... :silly:
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:beer:
It might be the latter. It takes a tremendous amount of energy to do all that stupid shi.... :silly:
And, besides that stupid starts to look...well, stupid.
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And, besides that stupid starts to look...well, stupid.
Yeah, but when has that ever stopped a good ol boy?
I have more hold my beer moments than Carter has pills.
:whistle: :silly:
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Yeah, but when has that ever stopped a good ol boy?
I have more hold my beer moments than Carter has pills.
:whistle: :silly:
...and a few scars to prove it! :beer:
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...and a few scars to prove it! :beer:
pointing-up :yowsa: