The Briefing Room

General Category => Politics/Government => Topic started by: Chosen Daughter on January 10, 2019, 02:32:33 pm

Title: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: Chosen Daughter on January 10, 2019, 02:32:33 pm
Quote
Trump appears increasingly likely to declare a national emergency to build his border wall if lawmakers don’t come to a deal soon.

 By ELIANA JOHNSON and BURGESS EVERETT
  | 01/09/2019 07:45 PM EST
 

Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.

Graham brought together a half dozen Republican senators Wednesday afternoon in a last-ditch attempt to resolve the three-week stalemate before President Donald Trump deploys an explosive emergency declaration to build his border wall. The Republican senators were joined mid-meeting by White House emissaries Jared Kushner and Shahira Knight, the president’s congressional liaison.

Democrats were not invited to participate in the meeting, which largely comprised of centrist Republicans, including Sens. Rob Portman (R-Ohio) and Susan Collins (R-Maine). The participants emphasized that the discussions were preliminary in nature, but some of these senators are scheduled to meet Thursday with Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell to continue the discussions, according to congressional sources.

<Excerpted.>


https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/09/graham-shutdown-trump-border-wall-1093832 (https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/09/graham-shutdown-trump-border-wall-1093832)

We cannot allow Lindsey Graham to undermine border security with his amnesty deals.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: Chosen Daughter on January 10, 2019, 03:19:33 pm
I just wanted to mention that I work in the Manufacturing industry.  If you want an eye opener on the affects of 240% increase of illegal immigration go to Hispanics own website.

http://www.pewhispanic.org/2016/11/03/occupations-of-unauthorized-immigrant-workers/ (http://www.pewhispanic.org/2016/11/03/occupations-of-unauthorized-immigrant-workers/)

This data that they have given should make all Americans uneasy.  For me specifically and my industry unauthorized immigrants in 2016 outnumbered Americans.  The data says 14% to 9%.  And don't think that white collar jobs are safe either.  Take a look.  What we are doing is replacing American workers with unauthorized (illegal aliens).  I think it is obvious the outcome.  More Americans on welfare, and not by choice. 

Liberals think we owe it to let all Hondurans in because of Hillary's mistakes there.  It is obvious to me by discussions that they think everyone in Honduras is deserving of asylum.  And they lie about the illegal immigration.  Saying that it is down when it is up for the fourth straight month.  240%

And given that hugely number I wonder how the increase in job market is going to keep up with a monthly increased rate of 240%?  That is illegal immigrant inflation.  Cannot be sustained.  This is an Emergency.  Don't delay President Trump.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: libertybele on January 10, 2019, 05:13:34 pm
@Chosen Daughter I don't know what its going to take to get people to realize and understand what is fully going on.  It looks like people aren't going to open their eyes till this country is fully integrated, our Republic is changed to a Socialist entity with Sharia laws in place.  Making allowances for any type of amnesty in any shape or form will do exactly what I just mentioned.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: Jazzhead on January 10, 2019, 05:22:18 pm
We cannot allow Lindsey Graham to undermine border security with his amnesty deals.

That's not what's happening here.   What undermines border security is the Dems' refusal to approve funding for it.   There are two ways to proceed forward.  One is to declare a national emergency and bypass Congress,  a move that is (it appears) Constitutionally dubious, and even disturbs some conservatives because the weapon could conceivably be used to circumvent the Constitution when the Presidency is held by a Democrat.    The second is to secure the needed funding by entering into a compromise with Democrats.   

It does not undermine border security to obtain the needed funds by, for example,  agreeing to normalize the Dreamers.    That's the nature of political horse-trading in normal times.   Yes, these aren't normal times,  and our own impulse to stick a shiv in the Democrats is at least as strong as the Dems' desire to stick a shiv in us.   But in the meantime - the border remains a sieve for criminals and drugs.   What's important to you?  Securing the border or scoring political points?     
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: Jazzhead on January 10, 2019, 05:26:12 pm
@Chosen Daughter I don't know what its going to take to get people to realize and understand what is fully going on.  It looks like people aren't going to open their eyes till this country is fully integrated, our Republic is changed to a Socialist entity with Sharia laws in place.  Making allowances for any type of amnesty in any shape or form will do exactly what I just mentioned.

Respectfully, this is alarmist bullshit.   Normalizing the status of the "Dreamers" is not amnesty, and no, it won't cause the Republic to fall.   It will, perhaps, get us funding to construct an effective physical barrier at the border.   But I guess that's not what's important to you.   *****rollingeyes*****
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: edpc on January 10, 2019, 05:26:42 pm
We cannot allow Lindsey Graham to undermine border security with his amnesty deals.


You won’t be able to completely pin it on Graham. Has everyone forgotten this from January 2018?


“I think my positions are going to be what the people in this room come up with. I am very much reliant on the people in this room. I know most of the people on both sides, have a lot of respect for the people on both sides, and what I approve is going to be very much reliant on what the people in this room come to me with.”

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2018/01/09/donald-trump-promises-to-sign-daca-amnesty-bill-even-if-it-has-things-he-doesnt-like/ (https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2018/01/09/donald-trump-promises-to-sign-daca-amnesty-bill-even-if-it-has-things-he-doesnt-like/)
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: libertybele on January 10, 2019, 05:31:52 pm
Respectfully, this is alarmist bullshit.   Normalizing the status of the "Dreamers" is not amnesty, and no, it won't cause the Republic to fall.   It will, perhaps, get us funding to construct an effective physical barrier at the border.   But I guess that's not what's important to you.   *****rollingeyes*****

What is B.S. is you don't understand the impact of giving 'normal' status to Dreamers ... it increases the DEM voting base.  That is what this is and has always been about.  Th DEMS don't give a damn about them, they only care that they are insured their vote.

Getting a wall built, stopping amnesty in any form, and not giving away the sovereignty of this country IS extremely important to me.  I've been fighting this fight for a very long time and to insinuate that I don't care is insulting!!  Kiss my grits Jazz!
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: Jazzhead on January 10, 2019, 05:40:10 pm
What is B.S. is you don't understand the impact of giving 'normal' status to Dreamers ... it increases the DEM voting base.  That is what this is and has always been about.  Th DEMS don't give a damn about them, they only care that they are insured their vote.

Getting a wall built, stopping amnesty in any form, and not giving away the sovereignty of this country IS extremely important to me.  I've been fighting this fight for a very long time and to insinuate that I don't care is insulting!!  Kiss my grits Jazz!

"Fighting the fight" is meaningless.   Getting results is what counts.   We need funding for the wall.  If the price is normalizing the status of the "Dreamers", then why not accept that as a victory?    You seem to have this view that Hispanics are irredeemable Democrats.   That's simply bullshit.  Hispanic citizens are no more sympathetic to lawbreaking than anyone else.  Or maybe you simply believe that conservatism, economic growth, and U.S. sovereignty are concepts that only appeal to white folks.   

You're wrong.   I am confident that OUR values are the values of most who work hard and play by the rules.   
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: TomSea on January 10, 2019, 05:49:29 pm
Another danger, though, it should not happen because of the Senate, is what if the Dems take the House, Senate and Presidency. Then, they totally dictate the terms, say in 2024 or whenever.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: libertybele on January 10, 2019, 05:54:16 pm
"Fighting the fight" is meaningless.   Getting results is what counts.   We need funding for the wall.  If the price is normalizing the status of the "Dreamers", then why not accept that as a victory?    You seem to have this view that Hispanics are irredeemable Democrats.   That's simply bullshit.  Hispanic citizens are no more sympathetic to lawbreaking than anyone else.  Or maybe you simply believe that conservatism, economic growth, and U.S. sovereignty are concepts that only appeal to white folks.   

You're wrong.   I am confident that OUR values are the values of most who work hard and play by the rules.

If the results mean that we lose the sovereignty of this country than the fight is NOT meaningless.  No result, bargain, compromise is worth losing our sovereignty and if you don't think that the DEMS primary goal of all of this is to increase their voting base you are absolutely WRONG.  Hispanic citizens are those that have come here legally.  I was not referring to them.  Granting amnesty to those here ILLEGALLY who have broken laws to get here would most certainly vote liberal; they are the party that gave them a free ride on the backs of hardworking Hispanic-U.S. citizens (your reference) and U.S. citizens in general.

Jazz, you are one of the most liberal closed-minded people that posts in here.  So your comments don't surprise me, but IF we don't get a wall and DACA and Dreamers are granted a free pass, you are going to be rudely awakened and quickly educated the hard way.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: bilo on January 10, 2019, 06:13:48 pm
The Rats will never agree to a DACA deal if it includes the border wall, immigration reform, ending chain migration, ending the visa lottery, and full mandatory implementation of e-verify.

From the Rats perspective why agree to anything. As long as we have open borders the vast majority of children of illegal aliens born in the USA will vote for Rats. In addition, motor voter laws also register illegals "by error" and a fair number of them "mistakenly" vote as well.

CA. is the fulfillment of the Rat plan, 30 years plus of open borders and a formerly red state is now solidly blue.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: Emjay on January 10, 2019, 06:19:38 pm
The Rats will never agree to a DACA deal if it includes the border wall, immigration reform, ending chain migration, ending the visa lottery, and full mandatory implementation of e-verify.

From the Rats perspective why agree to anything. As long as we have open borders the vast majority of children of illegal aliens born in the USA will vote for Rats. In addition, motor voter laws also register illegals "by error" and a fair number of them "mistakenly" vote as well.

CA. is the fulfillment of the Rat plan, 30 years plus of open borders and a formerly red state is now solidly blue.

I agree @bilo   The Rats have drawn a line in the sand.  No victory whatever for Trump and no bill that includes the wall will pass.

So, I see no advantage in offering them any kind of DACA compromise  because they will not compromise.

I'm beginning to think that Trump will have to declare a national emergency and I hope he does.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: DCPatriot on January 10, 2019, 06:24:34 pm
I agree @bilo   The Rats have drawn a line in the sand.  No victory whatever for Trump and no bill that includes the wall will pass.

So, I see no advantage in offering them any kind of DACA compromise  because they will not compromise.

I'm beginning to think that Trump will have to declare a national emergency and I hope he does.

There should be rules already in place that allow a "National Security Emergency" directive to go immediately from obstructionist Commie judge to the Supreme Court in less than 30 days.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: bilo on January 10, 2019, 06:30:16 pm
I agree @bilo   The Rats have drawn a line in the sand.  No victory whatever for Trump and no bill that includes the wall will pass.

So, I see no advantage in offering them any kind of DACA compromise  because they will not compromise.

I'm beginning to think that Trump will have to declare a national emergency and I hope he does.

The key is even after declaring the national emergency, until the lawsuits are settled, Trump needs to keep the shut down in effect. Otherwise, all leverage is lost. The Rats will tie up Trump in court for years and if he loses in 2020 forget any chance of getting a wall at our southern border.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: libertybele on January 10, 2019, 06:37:59 pm
I agree @bilo   The Rats have drawn a line in the sand.  No victory whatever for Trump and no bill that includes the wall will pass.

So, I see no advantage in offering them any kind of DACA compromise  because they will not compromise.

I'm beginning to think that Trump will have to declare a national emergency and I hope he does.

 :amen:  They don't want to give Trump anything because he is succeeding despite their manmade chaos.  This is the ultimate tug of war and the GOP and Trump MUST win.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: Jazzhead on January 10, 2019, 06:39:53 pm
  So your comments don't surprise me, but IF we don't get a wall and DACA and Dreamers are granted a free pass, you are going to be rudely awakened and quickly educated the hard way.

If that were to happen, I'd be as upset as you are.   But the idea is to trade the wall for normalization of the Dreamers.   That is political horse-trading of the sort that goes on all the time in legislatures.    Indeed, for me that's the easiest deal in the world.   The Dreamers (those who've obeyed the law) can and should be normalized.  It's the right thing to do.   But, given the current political climate,  I have no objection to using the Dreamers as leverage to get the funds for the wall. 

But the Dems appear to have the same mindset as you - no compromise,  not one single solitary bone to the other side.  (Goes to show how much they really care about the Dreamers.)  In that case, then I hope President Trump declares a national emergency,  funds the wall from military appropriations, and re-opens the government.   Let the courts strike him down or uphold his exercise of executive authority.     
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: libertybele on January 10, 2019, 06:39:59 pm
There should be rules already in place that allow a "National Security Emergency" directive to go immediately from obstructionist Commie judge to the Supreme Court in less than 30 days.

I'm trying to understand why the commie judges can still stop this President in the first place.  Bammy and Holder did what they wanted even when Holder was ruled against.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: DCPatriot on January 10, 2019, 06:52:49 pm
I'm trying to understand why the commie judges can still stop this President in the first place.  Bammy and Holder did what they wanted even when Holder was ruled against.

Not stated loudly and broadly enough. 

"The most insidious power of the media is the power to ignore."  - Chris Plante
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: edpc on January 10, 2019, 06:54:47 pm
Even if the emergency declaration survived the court challenges and wall construction began immediately, some of you are not appreciating what a pyrrhic victory this will likely be.  At some point, the same maneuver will be invoked to address gun violence, single payer healthcare, or some other disastrous leftist cause. Look how the nuclear option on judges came back to haunt the left in just 4 years.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: edpc on January 10, 2019, 06:56:35 pm
I'm trying to understand why the commie judges can still stop this President in the first place.  Bammy and Holder did what they wanted even when Holder was ruled against.


Just look to Jackson, after the SCOTUS ruled against him.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: mystery-ak on January 10, 2019, 07:03:14 pm
Rush has said on today's show the likely scenario he has heard.

Trump, Nancy and Chuckie will agree to reopen the gov and Trump will sign with no money for the wall....the rats claim victory

Then at the same time Trump declares National Emergency to pay for the wall..Nancy and Chuck find a rat judge somewhere to stop it..ends up at SCOTUS months later...Trump's faithful declare victory

I will post this scenario when he has it up at his site
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: mystery-ak on January 10, 2019, 07:08:37 pm

Rush: Conventional Wisdom: Trump Will Cave and Declare Emergency
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,347181.new.html#new (http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,347181.new.html#new)
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: DCPatriot on January 10, 2019, 07:22:54 pm
Rush: Conventional Wisdom: Trump Will Cave and Declare Emergency
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,347181.new.html#new (http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,347181.new.html#new)

Rush must have scanned the threads this morning just before airtime on the East.    :laugh:

Ten minutes prior, I posted that, just like Rush, I live in Realville, too!  The courts will tie actual construction up and eventually, the Dem majority will defund the project outright.

That said, I believe he will call upon the Army Corp of Engineers and the Navy Seebees.   

He means what he says.  And that is the ONLY thing, in the end, that will cut through the Leftist American Idol-cultural bullshit. 
Reaching Joe/Jose American.

All the lies in the world aren't going to 'Trump' the video of the concrete structure you'll see going up...on FOXNEWS.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: libertybele on January 10, 2019, 07:30:55 pm
Rush has said on today's show the likely scenario he has heard.

Trump, Nancy and Chuckie will agree to reopen the gov and Trump will sign with no money for the wall....the rats claim victory

Then at the same time Trump declares National Emergency to pay for the wall..Nancy and Chuck find a rat judge somewhere to stop it..ends up at SCOTUS months later...Trump's faithful declare victory

I will post this scenario when he has it up at his site

Except the SCOTUS could always rule against him.  I don't ever count on Roberts and Ginsburg is still alive.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: bilo on January 10, 2019, 08:14:31 pm
Even if the emergency declaration survived the court challenges and wall construction began immediately, some of you are not appreciating what a pyrrhic victory this will likely be.  At some point, the same maneuver will be invoked to address gun violence, single payer healthcare, or some other disastrous leftist cause. Look how the nuclear option on judges came back to haunt the left in just 4 years.

You couldn't be more wrong.

The 1976 National Emergencies Act does provide a mechanism to stop abuse of this power. Congress can rebuke (nullify) the declaration with a simple majority vote.

It's not like the Rats haven't known about this law. obama used it numerous times.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: edpc on January 10, 2019, 08:17:16 pm
You couldn't be more wrong.

The 1976 National Emergencies Act does provide a mechanism to stop abuse of this power. Congress can rebuke (nullify) the declaration with a simple majority vote.

It's not like the Rats haven't known about this law. obama used it numerous times.


We currently have a split Congress, so how am I wrong? Even if they had enough Senators to defect, the motion still requires Trump’s signature, which he won’t provide. They don’t have the veto override numbers. If they did, they’d just end the shutdown.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: bilo on January 10, 2019, 08:17:21 pm
Except the SCOTUS could always rule against him.  I don't ever count on Roberts and Ginsburg is still alive.

You're right, that's why even after declaring a national emergency Trump should continue keeping the govt. partially shut down.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: Ghost Bear on January 10, 2019, 10:06:40 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/p8lbUNF.gif)
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: libertybele on January 10, 2019, 10:47:43 pm

We currently have a split Congress, so how am I wrong? Even if they had enough Senators to defect, the motion still requires Trump’s signature, which he won’t provide. They don’t have the veto override numbers. If they did, they’d just end the shutdown.

Ok ... in the same light though, if I'm understanding what you're saying next time DEMS are in office, all they have to do is continuously declare a National emergency for everything ... and there would be no stopping them. 

In essence then, what we would have at the end of the day is a dictatorship.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: edpc on January 10, 2019, 11:13:23 pm
Ok.....in the same light though, if I'm understanding what you're saying next time DEMS are in office, all they have to do is continuously declare a National emergency for everything ... and there would be no stopping them. 

In essence then, what we would have at the end of the day is a dictatorship.



Well, I won’t go as far to say they’d have endless declarations. However, they’d probably attempt it on a couple pet issues, such as guns or healthcare. The only things in the way are 2/3 of Congress opposing it (unlikely) or SCOTUS ruling it unconstitutional (toss up).
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: Victoria33 on January 10, 2019, 11:27:06 pm
Ok ... in the same light though, if I'm understanding what you're saying next time DEMS are in office, all they have to do is continuously declare a National emergency for everything ... and there would be no stopping them. 
In essence then, what we would have at the end of the day is a dictatorship.
@libertybele

Yes, a dictatorship which is what Trump wants as he believes only he can run the country with no one's help.
I think what Lindsay Graham said today, (and don't dump on Graham as he is a Senator with following), which was like this, "I see no way out of this."  He looked downcast, sad, and was admitting he could do nothing to get us out of this stalemate.  What will Trump do?  Someone here said he would announce the National Emergency Declaration at the State of the Union speech later this month.  Trump would have millions watching that speech and he would be the "King of The Hill" dictating what "His" country is going to do.  I agree with Graham, this is sad our government workers do not get paid so Trump can rule the country.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: libertybele on January 11, 2019, 12:06:01 am
@libertybele

Yes, a dictatorship which is what Trump wants as he believes only he can run the country with no one's help.
I think what Lindsay Graham said today, (and don't dump on Graham as he is a Senator with following), which was like this, "I see no way out of this."  He looked downcast, sad, and was admitting he could do nothing to get us out of this stalemate.  What will Trump do?  Someone here said he would announce the National Emergency Declaration at the State of the Union speech later this month.  Trump would have millions watching that speech and he would be the "King of The Hill" dictating what "His" country is going to do.  I agree with Graham, this is sad our government workers do not get paid so Trump can rule the country.

I certainly can understand your viewpoint.  Take into consideration the crisis at the border; and there IS and has been a crisis at the border for some time.  We cannot continue to allow millions to enter this country;especially when among them are terrorists and gang members and those that do harm to our citizenry.

We recently had a mob caravan of appx. 10,000 pounding on our back door.  It was recently announced that another caravan even larger is on its way. 

So President Trump wants funding for a physical barrier.  The DEMS who have publicly announced support for a border wall in the past, now have back pedaled and refuse to give him his funding.

What is he supposed to do?  Especially when this is the very issue that won him the presidency.  Those people want a wall.  As President it is his job and he took and oath to defend this country.  In 2006 BOTH Houses voted for the Secure Fence Act; 700 miles of fence were built ... we've been waiting an awfully long time for the rest of the fence to be funded.

Also keep in mind, that he didn't immediately state that he's going to declare a National Emergency; he made other attempts to no avail.  He PROMISED those that voted for him a wall.  We have a crisis at the border.  Again, what is he supposed to do?  Say, sorry, America, Chuck and Nancy don't want a wall, so we need to pander to them??

Personally, I don't think so.

Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: sneakypete on January 11, 2019, 12:19:48 am
Quote
Respectfully, this is alarmist bullshit. Normalizing the status of the "Dreamers" is not amnesty,

@Jazzhead

HTH do you figure that?  If they are not illegal aliens,why are they called Dreamers?

   
Quote
and no, it won't cause the Republic to fall.
 

A pebble here,a pebble there,and pretty soon you have broken the camel's back.

Quote
It will, perhaps, get us funding to construct an effective physical barrier at the border.   

Yeah,causen the Dims are such REASONABLE creatures,huh?
Quote
But I guess that's not what's important to you.   *****rollingeyes*****

Seems to me that what is important to you is seeing the left rule this country. Think you will have a big career playing guitar in the labor camps as the Woody Head Guthrie of the 21st Century?
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: sneakypete on January 11, 2019, 12:22:40 am

Quote
"Fighting the fight" is meaningless.   Getting results is what counts.   We need funding for the wall.

If we follow your airhead plan,we would be building the wall to keep people from escaping the 3rd world cesspool that America would become.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: The_Reader_David on January 11, 2019, 12:49:57 am
The advantage to offering a DACA compromise under the present circumstances is that is won't pass because the 'Rats won't compromise, which proves that all they care about is sticking it to Trump, not immigrants from Latin America, thereby showing them to, in fact, be uncaring in exactly the way they purport Republicans are.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: libertybele on January 11, 2019, 01:12:11 am
The advantage to offering a DACA compromise under the present circumstances is that is won't pass because the 'Rats won't compromise, which proves that all they care about is sticking it to Trump, not immigrants from Latin America, thereby showing them to, in fact, be uncaring in exactly the way they purport Republicans are.

Well, that is one way to look at it, but should they agree to give money in exchange for DACA, it does greatly compromise not only the future of the GOP but very possibly the sovereignty of this country.

IMHO there are several things in addition to the wall that is needed for border security:

Announce to other countries that the United States of America has now adopted a zero tolerance policy for illegal entry; and will use all means necessary, including lethal force to stop illegal immigration.  Legal immigration into this country will be welcome at a future date.

More border patrol agents and more technology at the border.

Mandatory enforcement of existing immigration law.

End of birthright citizenship, and chain migration and an end to benefits that entice illegals to come here.

A moratorium on ALL migration into this country until the wall is built and our immigration laws are being enforced.

To deal with illegal already in this country:

No DACA, no normalization for Dreamers; to do so is nothing short of amnesty.

No benefits for illegals/undocumented aliens.

Voluntary deportation; those that self deport can register and will have a chance for legal entry into this country.  Those that don't register and don't self deport if apprehended will have NO chance for legal entry into this country.

Continuation of no migration into this country from areas of known terrorists.

A federal ban on Sharia law.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: Chosen Daughter on January 11, 2019, 01:37:31 am
@libertybele

Yes, a dictatorship which is what Trump wants as he believes only he can run the country with no one's help.
I think what Lindsay Graham said today, (and don't dump on Graham as he is a Senator with following), which was like this, "I see no way out of this."  He looked downcast, sad, and was admitting he could do nothing to get us out of this stalemate.  What will Trump do?  Someone here said he would announce the National Emergency Declaration at the State of the Union speech later this month.  Trump would have millions watching that speech and he would be the "King of The Hill" dictating what "His" country is going to do.  I agree with Graham, this is sad our government workers do not get paid so Trump can rule the country.

If he is sad it will only be until the next golfing trip with the President.  Why don't you place the blame where it belongs.  Democrats, and yes Graham.   Because they know they can maneuver Graham because he has always and recently stated his amnesty desires.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: Chosen Daughter on January 11, 2019, 01:42:08 am
Well, that is one way to look at it, but should they agree to give money in exchange for DACA, it does greatly compromise not only the future of the GOP but very possibly the sovereignty of this country.

IMHO there are several things in addition to the wall that is needed for border security:

Announce to other countries that the United States of America has now adopted a zero tolerance policy for illegal entry; and will use all means necessary, including lethal force to stop illegal immigration.  Legal immigration into this country will be welcome at a future date.

More border patrol agents and more technology at the border.

Mandatory enforcement of existing immigration law.

End of birthright citizenship, and chain migration and an end to benefits that entice illegals to come here.

A moratorium on ALL migration into this country until the wall is built and our immigration laws are being enforced.

To deal with illegal already in this country:

No DACA, no normalization for Dreamers; to do so is nothing short of amnesty.

No benefits for illegals/undocumented aliens.

Voluntary deportation; those that self deport can register and will have a chance for legal entry into this country.  Those that don't register and don't self deport if apprehended will have NO chance for legal entry into this country.

Continuation of no migration into this country from areas of known terrorists.

A federal ban on Sharia law.

Amen.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: Fishrrman on January 11, 2019, 01:52:05 am
Great post, libertybele !  (#35)
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: Chosen Daughter on January 11, 2019, 02:04:15 am
I certainly can understand your viewpoint.  Take into consideration the crisis at the border; and there IS and has been a crisis at the border for some time.  We cannot continue to allow millions to enter this country;especially when among them are terrorists and gang members and those that do harm to our citizenry.

We recently had a mob caravan of appx. 10,000 pounding on our back door.  It was recently announced that another caravan even larger is on its way. 

So President Trump wants funding for a physical barrier.  The DEMS who have publicly announced support for a border wall in the past, now have back pedaled and refuse to give him his funding.

What is he supposed to do?  Especially when this is the very issue that won him the presidency.  Those people want a wall.  As President it is his job and he took and oath to defend this country.  In 2006 BOTH Houses voted for the Secure Fence Act; 700 miles of fence were built ... we've been waiting an awfully long time for the rest of the fence to be funded.

Also keep in mind, that he didn't immediately state that he's going to declare a National Emergency; he made other attempts to no avail.  He PROMISED those that voted for him a wall.  We have a crisis at the border.  Again, what is he supposed to do?  Say, sorry, America, Chuck and Nancy don't want a wall, so we need to pander to them??

Personally, I don't think so.

They were running video of Diane Feinstein last night talking about illegal immigration.  That new girl on FOX news said she used to talk just like Trump.  She did.  See it here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvRZdNoHEf8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvRZdNoHEf8)

So what has happened since then for this turn around?  I don't know, and I hate to sound like a conspiracy nut but Cartels have crossed my mind many times.  Why would we think that they will not infiltrate our political system here when they control every major city.  If they assassinate politicians and run the government in Mexico they certainly will here too.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: TomSea on January 11, 2019, 02:17:41 am
They were running video of Diane Feinstein last night talking about illegal immigration.  That new girl on FOX news said she used to talk just like Trump.  She did.  See it here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvRZdNoHEf8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvRZdNoHEf8)

So what has happened since then for this turn around?  I don't know, and I hate to sound like a conspiracy nut but Cartels have crossed my mind many times.  Why would we think that they will not infiltrate our political system here when they control every major city.  If they assassinate politicians and run the government in Mexico they certainly will here too.

I think it is mainly about changing red states to blue.... there can be a lot of speculation. As has been said, Obama and others said in the past, similar things that Trump is saying now.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: bilo on January 11, 2019, 04:13:12 am

We currently have a split Congress, so how am I wrong? Even if they had enough Senators to defect, the motion still requires Trump’s signature, which he won’t provide. They don’t have the veto override numbers. If they did, they’d just end the shutdown.

No, it doesn't.

The law was designed so a President can declare an emergency and act quickly and Congress can react if they disagree. If the POTUS declares an emergency the House can pass a rebuke (nullifying the declaration) which the Senate must then vote on within 15 days. If both chambers vote to rebuke the emergency declaration then the national emergency is ended.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: sneakypete on January 11, 2019, 08:44:27 am
Well, that is one way to look at it, but should they agree to give money in exchange for DACA, it does greatly compromise not only the future of the GOP but very possibly the sovereignty of this country.

IMHO there are several things in addition to the wall that is needed for border security:

Announce to other countries that the United States of America has now adopted a zero tolerance policy for illegal entry; and will use all means necessary, including lethal force to stop illegal immigration.  Legal immigration into this country will be welcome at a future date.

More border patrol agents and more technology at the border.

Mandatory enforcement of existing immigration law.

End of birthright citizenship, and chain migration and an end to benefits that entice illegals to come here.

A moratorium on ALL migration into this country until the wall is built and our immigration laws are being enforced.

To deal with illegal already in this country:

No DACA, no normalization for Dreamers; to do so is nothing short of amnesty.

No benefits for illegals/undocumented aliens.

Voluntary deportation; those that self deport can register and will have a chance for legal entry into this country.  Those that don't register and don't self deport if apprehended will have NO chance for legal entry into this country.

Continuation of no migration into this country from areas of known terrorists.

A federal ban on Sharia law.

@libertybele

 :amen: :amen: :amen:  What you wrote. ALL of it.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: TomSea on January 11, 2019, 11:04:35 am
Well, that is one way to look at it, but should they agree to give money in exchange for DACA, it does greatly compromise not only the future of the GOP but very possibly the sovereignty of this country.

IMHO there are several things in addition to the wall that is needed for border security:

Announce to other countries that the United States of America has now adopted a zero tolerance policy for illegal entry; and will use all means necessary, including lethal force to stop illegal immigration.  Legal immigration into this country will be welcome at a future date.

More border patrol agents and more technology at the border.

Mandatory enforcement of existing immigration law.

End of birthright citizenship, and chain migration and an end to benefits that entice illegals to come here.

A moratorium on ALL migration into this country until the wall is built and our immigration laws are being enforced.

To deal with illegal already in this country:

No DACA, no normalization for Dreamers; to do so is nothing short of amnesty.

No benefits for illegals/undocumented aliens.

Voluntary deportation; those that self deport can register and will have a chance for legal entry into this country.  Those that don't register and don't self deport if apprehended will have NO chance for legal entry into this country.

Continuation of no migration into this country from areas of known terrorists.

A federal ban on Sharia law.

That will work for a while but if one is talking true demographic change, over the span of 10, 20, 30 years, that change will still happen.  Just saying some are illegal doesn't address a lot of problems.

Congress has to vote on these things as well.

I might want this, this and this. It doesn't mean it's going to happen.

Plenty of Hispanics, legal citizens and likely Democrats, become voting age every year.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: Formerly Once-Ler on January 11, 2019, 11:51:32 am
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DwlaUzAXQAA_2nz.jpg)

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/trump-lindsay-graham-insults-219374 (https://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/trump-lindsay-graham-insults-219374)
Quote
“I think Lindsey Graham is a disgrace, and I think you have one of the worst representatives of any representative in the United States, and I don’t think he should run,” Trump said about the South Carolina senator at a campaign event in front of the lawmaker's home-state crowd. “I don’t think he could run for dog catcher in this state and win again. I really don’t. Other than that, I think he’s wonderful.”

“He’s one of the dumbest human beings I’ve ever seen,” Trump said.

I think they are both right.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: sneakypete on January 11, 2019, 02:21:36 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DwlaUzAXQAA_2nz.jpg)

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/trump-lindsay-graham-insults-219374 (https://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/trump-lindsay-graham-insults-219374)
I think they are both right.

@Once-Ler

Yeah,but you also think Mad Maxine Waters is a genius.

Then again,compared to you she might be one.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: XenaLee on January 11, 2019, 02:50:16 pm
Ok ... in the same light though, if I'm understanding what you're saying next time DEMS are in office, all they have to do is continuously declare a National emergency for everything ... and there would be no stopping them. 

In essence then, what we would have at the end of the day is a dictatorship.

Correct.  And we already know that they have that mentality.  I recall during GWB's presidency how the left framed everything as a "crisis". 
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: aligncare on January 11, 2019, 03:09:48 pm
Gregg Jarrett said yesterday, as he was guest hosting Sean Hannity’s show, that nearly every president, including Carter, Reagan, Clinton, Bush, Obama, had declared a national emergency roughly a dozen times each, and no one whispered a word of criticism.

Trump talks about declaring a national emergency and the left, including NeverTrumpers, lose their minds.

TDS: it’s a real thing.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: TomSea on January 11, 2019, 03:14:10 pm
Quote
Another decline in American exceptionalism: The falling fertility rate
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/another-decline-in-american-exceptionalism-the-falling-fertility-rate (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/another-decline-in-american-exceptionalism-the-falling-fertility-rate)

All of the whining about Dreamers isn't going to overcome stats like the above.  Their number delays what could be coming unless Americans start getting their replacement rate back up.

Hey, Santa Claus, I want this and that too.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: TomSea on January 11, 2019, 03:17:37 pm
Gregg Jarrett said yesterday, as he was guest hosting Sean Hannity’s show, that nearly every president, including Carter, Reagan, Clinton, Bush, Obama, had declared a national emergency roughly a dozen times each, and no one whispered a word of criticism.

Trump talks about declaring a national emergency and the left, including NeverTrumpers, lose their minds.

TDS: it’s a real thing.

I wasn't aware of this. I know Obama did for dreamers.... I'm told.  Good post.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: aligncare on January 11, 2019, 03:24:02 pm
I wasn't aware of this. I know Obama did for dreamers.... I'm told.  Good post.

Yes, I too was unaware of these facts. But, it goes to show how dishonest and disingenuous the Trump critics (otherwise known as losers) are.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: Jazzhead on January 11, 2019, 03:24:50 pm
All of the whining about Dreamers isn't going to overcome stats like the above.  Their number delays what could be coming unless Americans start getting their replacement rate back up.

Bottom line - we need more legal immigration.   With a birthrate below replacement level,  a nation can best sustain economic growth through immigration.   
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: skeeter on January 11, 2019, 03:29:05 pm
Bottom line - we need more legal immigration.   With a birthrate below replacement level,  a nation can best sustain economic growth through immigration.

Thats the worst advise you've ever given here.

Reminds me of the guy on TV last night saying we need universal healthcare for illegals because treating them in ER's is not an efficient use of healthcare resources.

Instead of continuing to build our system around the sick pathologies resulting from previous bad laws how about focusing on making it possible for American citizens to have their own families without impoverishing themselves again?

Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: TomSea on January 11, 2019, 03:37:04 pm
Actually, that low replacement rate, is certainly a part of how England/UK and Germany plan their future. Honestly, some countries, an article was posted recently, on Japan having a low replacement rate, aging population.  These are real concerns out there. I don't think we are at that point right now. All I was saying, is when people talk about Dreamers coming in, that is just the immediate picture. It doesn't mean I am for Dreamers, I'm just saying, that is just the short term scenario that basically gets washed out when one is talking about 10 or 20 years into the future. I don't know about California specifically, I have posted already, there are states that have become "minority-majority" and if one is talking about how they will vote, the votes are already there. Not that they will necessarily become blue because of dreamers.

To say, it is a factor of the Dreamers that will turn states blue may not be sound. States tend to have that already in homegrown votes.

(https://cdn2.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/3446604/Screen_Shot_2015-02-25_at_1.52.31_PM.0.png)
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: edpc on January 11, 2019, 03:39:37 pm
I wasn't aware of this. I know Obama did for dreamers.... I'm told.  Good post.



You’re probably not aware that some of the ‘emergency’ measures are anything but, like investment in Burma, Sierra Leone diamonds, and various other measures taken against individuals in foreign conflicts.

https://www.brennancenter.org/sites/default/files/analysis/NEA%20Declarations.pdf (https://www.brennancenter.org/sites/default/files/analysis/NEA%20Declarations.pdf)
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: Jazzhead on January 11, 2019, 03:54:05 pm
Thats the worst advise you've ever given here.


I am speaking of legal immigration, not the illegal kind.

You can't veto the laws of economics.  If the native-born aren't replacing themselves,  eventually economic growth will be impossible.  The government can't force folks to reproduce, but it can control the entry of new immigrants with the skills and ambition to thrive here.   I can't speak for you, @skeeter, but most of us are the children, grandchildren or great-grandchildren of immigrants.   My grandparents all came here in the twenties from Sweden.   Mrs. Jazz's parents both came here from Mexico.   Immigration has sustained this nation over the years.   

People simply don't want large families the way they used to.   There's no getting around that.   And with women in the workforce,  many have alternatives to staying at home and raising kids.   You may not like it, but that's how it is when women have the same rights and opportunities as men.   

What's the solution?   Legal immigration.   
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: aligncare on January 11, 2019, 03:54:47 pm
Bottom line - we need more legal immigration.   With a birthrate below replacement level,  a nation can best sustain economic growth through immigration.

I know of no one who is against ‘immigrants’ coming to America. What most folks are opposed to is illegal aliens, those mostly poor unkeducated people unfamiliar with our history and our traditions, flooding the country and undercutting citizens’ wages and forcing a rapid change to our American customs, traditions, laws and most importantly, our politics.

By the very nature of sneaking into the country, illegal aliens have not had to demonstrate to a U.S. immigration office a desire to assimilate into American society (no pledge of allegiance). If this condition persists over decades unchecked, we will lose America as founded.

Regarding their children however, I think DACA will eventually become law as part of a deal to secure the border with a wall and additional resources.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: TomSea on January 11, 2019, 03:58:55 pm
For clarification, I think I should have said is that in the EU, it seems their economies are growing at such a rate that even positive birthrates may not be keeping up with the economic growth.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: DCPatriot on January 11, 2019, 03:59:58 pm
It's totally ridiculous and suicidal for the nation to not purposefully balance out the racial component of the 'New' American citizen.

Don't tell me Barack Obama didn't open up the door for Middle Eastern and African Muslims.

Don't see why we can't give special preference to European Anglo-Saxons or Russians for a decade or three. :laugh:
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: TomSea on January 11, 2019, 04:03:34 pm
It's totally ridiculous and suicidal for the nation to not purposefully balance out the racial component of the 'New' American citizen.

Don't tell me Barack Obama didn't open up the door for Middle Eastern and African Muslims.

Don't see why we can't give special preference to European Anglo-Saxons or Russians for a decade or three. :laugh:

See, that's the thing. Back in the 1960s, the immigration was fixed to aid Europeans come in. Times changed, those laws came to benefit other groups because the Norweigans, etc. didn't really have a compulsion to come to America.

This was a major discussion point about 8 months ago. Perhaps, I can find this data later.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: TomSea on January 11, 2019, 04:05:36 pm
Those Somalis started coming in with that war back in the '90s, mainly during the Clinton administration or so, I'd believe that to be the case. Hmong who are from SE Asia have been coming in for decades.

For a country like France and maybe Belgium, a lot of their former colonies are Christian as well. Perhaps, if they worry about the growth rate of the Muslim population, they should bring in more Christians.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: edpc on January 11, 2019, 04:06:41 pm
I know of no one who is against ‘immigrants’ coming to America.


Really? I seem to remember a prominent candidate getting savaged over his position on H-1B visas not long ago.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: skeeter on January 11, 2019, 04:07:54 pm
I am speaking of legal immigration, not the illegal kind.

You can't veto the laws of economics.  If the native-born aren't replacing themselves,  eventually economic growth will be impossible.  The government can't force folks to reproduce, but it can control the entry of new immigrants with the skills and ambition to thrive here.   I can't speak for you, @skeeter, but most of us are the children, grandchildren or great-grandchildren of immigrants.   My grandparents all came here in the twenties from Sweden.   Mrs. Jazz's parents both came here from Mexico.   Immigration has sustained this nation over the years.   

People simply don't want large families the way they used to.   There's no getting around that.   And with women in the workforce,  many have alternatives to staying at home and raising kids.   You may not like it, but that's how it is when women have the same rights and opportunities as men.   

What's the solution?   Legal immigration.

No. The solution is for local and federal governments stop policies that DISCOURAGE Americans from having families.

This isn't the turn of the century and we're not in the middle of an industrial revolution. We do not need to import labor of any kind when millions of US citizens have made a lifestyle out of collecting public assistance (as 60% of foreign born currently do, BTW).

If we continue on the path we're on which you seem to encourage, replacing the population with people foreign to our values and heritage, we will very soon be totally converted into the socialist society you claim to abhor.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: DCPatriot on January 11, 2019, 04:10:44 pm
See, that's the thing. Back in the 1960s, the immigration was fixed to aid Europeans come in. Times changed, those laws came to benefit other groups because the Norweigans, etc. didn't really have a compulsion to come to America.

This was a major discussion point about 8 months ago. Perhaps, I can find this data later.

I'll bet there are tens of thousands of Nordic, French, German and Italians who would jump at the opportunity, given what the EU has done to Nationalism over the past ten years.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: sneakypete on January 11, 2019, 05:28:52 pm
Bottom line - we need more legal immigration.   With a birthrate below replacement level,  a nation can best sustain economic growth through immigration.

@Jazzhead

HORSEHILLARY! We need FEWER immigrants because there are even fewer jobs available for the people already here,and we are losing more jobs daily thanks to sending all our manufacturing to India and China.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: edpc on January 11, 2019, 05:34:01 pm
@Jazzhead

HORSEHILLARY! We need FEWER immigrants because there are even fewer jobs available for the people already here,and we are losing more jobs daily thanks to sending all our manufacturing to India and China.


Funny, I thought Trump was fixing that. He seems to think so.

https://m.newstimes.com/news/article/Trump-s-claim-that-job-growth-is-due-to-companies-13522938.php
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: sneakypete on January 11, 2019, 05:35:02 pm
Quote
I am speaking of legal immigration, not the illegal kind.

You can't veto the laws of economics.  If the native-born aren't replacing themselves,  eventually economic growth will be impossible.


The BASE of economic growth is JOBS. Mostly jobs related to manufacturing. What happens when a nation has a high percentage of the working population unemployed and starving in the streets because there are no jobs available and no budget to provide welfare services?

The answer is "Revolution". Revolution is what your heroes of the left are working for because they see it as the only way possible for them to establish control to dissolve the United States and make us a part of "WorldWide Government Incorporated". With THEM sitting on all the boards,of course.

I see Canada,the US,and Mexico being combined and renamed something sexy like "The North American Economic Zone",and us,as well as the rest of the world,will be ruled by a corporate board sitting in Zurich or somewhere similar.


 
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: Jazzhead on January 11, 2019, 05:41:00 pm
@Jazzhead

HORSEHILLARY! We need FEWER immigrants because there are even fewer jobs available for the people already here,and we are losing more jobs daily thanks to sending all our manufacturing to India and China.

In recent months stats show that employers are posting more jobs than there is a pool of willing citizens to fill them.    There are jobs available, right now, for those willing to work.   A problem, though, is the persistent decline in labor force participation.   Lots of legal Americans are, let's face it, too lazy to work - especially when to do so may require them to relocate where the jobs are or jeopardize their "disability" and other benefits - or too addicted to drugs.     This is a culture of un-ambition and dependency that in recent years has infected white Americans. 

Minorities are working as never before.   And certain minorities - e.g., from India and China - have cultures of hard work and educational achievement that surpass most white folks.    Immigrants generally have more ambition and drive than the native born,  which makes sense given the sacrifice they've made to pull up stakes and come here.    While I am not defending illegal immigration,  the fact is that employers - above and beyond the fact that they cost less - like these workers for perfectly rational reasons - they show up on time and work hard all day long.    They have to - as Dylan sang, to live outside the law you must be honest.    The native-born, too often, are more concerned with slumming.     
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: bilo on January 11, 2019, 05:52:00 pm
Gregg Jarrett said yesterday, as he was guest hosting Sean Hannity’s show, that nearly every president, including Carter, Reagan, Clinton, Bush, Obama, had declared a national emergency roughly a dozen times each, and no one whispered a word of criticism.

Trump talks about declaring a national emergency and the left, including NeverTrumpers, lose their minds.

TDS: it’s a real thing.

 :amen:

Just reading some of the posts here illustrates your point.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: skeeter on January 11, 2019, 05:52:05 pm
In recent months stats show that employers are posting more jobs than there is a pool of willing citizens to fill them.    There are jobs available, right now, for those willing to work.   A problem, though, is the persistent decline in labor force participation.   Lots of legal Americans are, let's face it, too lazy to work - especially when to do so may require them to relocate where the jobs are or jeopardize their "disability" and other benefits - or too addicted to drugs.     This is a culture of un-ambition and dependency that in recent years has infected white Americans. 

Minorities are working as never before.   And certain minorities - e.g., from India and China - have cultures of hard work and educational achievement that surpass most white folks.    Immigrants generally have more ambition and drive than the native born,  which makes sense given the sacrifice they've made to pull up stakes and come here.    While I am not defending illegal immigration,  the fact is that employers - above and beyond the fact that they cost less - like these workers for perfectly rational reasons - they show up on time and work hard all day long.    They have to - as Dylan sang, to live outside the law you must be honest.    The native-born, too often, are more concerned with slumming.   

Baloney. Importing labor is about profit maximization.

We are dissolving our nation for the sake of the state bureaucracy & the investor class.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: sneakypete on January 11, 2019, 05:52:42 pm
Quote
In recent months stats show that employers are posting more jobs than there is a pool of willing citizens to fill them.   


@jazzhand

Maybe not,but liars figure,and what else did you expect the very people responsible for killing our economy to report? THEY have highly-paid jobs were VERY nice benefits,and they don't want to lose them by reporting the truth.

Quote
There are jobs available, right now, for those willing to work.   A problem, though, is the persistent decline in labor force participation.   Lots of legal Americans are, let's face it, too lazy to work - especially when to do so may jeopardize their "disability" and other benefits - or too addicted to drugs.     This is a culture of dependency that in recent years has infected white Americans. 

The problem here is these benefits pay more than most of the menial jobs these people would get,even IF they were willing to work. WHY would they work for poverty wages when they can draw "my check" and sit around in their air-conditioned and heated part-mints all day and watch teebee while smoking weed and drinking beer?

Welfare should pay a LOT less and provide a LOT fewer creature comforts. Dormitories instead of individual family apartments. Dormitories with armed police on patrol and in control of the door  to protect the helpless and provide security by keeping out the drug dealers,etc,etc,etc by starting with things like not letting anyone enter that is obviously drunk or  high on drugs,even if they live there. Dormitories operated like basic training housing,where everyone is up at the crack of dawn and exercising or otherwise working,and then reporting to the mess hall for breakfast,lunch,and dinner. No refrigerators in the rooms and no cooking allowed.

This will motivate SOME of them to actually go out and look for and work jobs so they are once again in control of their lives. The professional parasites will still suck on Uncle Sugar's tit,but the cost will be greatly reduced and they will also be a lot safer.

Anyone that doesn't like it will be free to starve to death in the streets as the churches and other charities refuse to spend a dime of their own money to care for the poor.

 
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: libertybele on January 11, 2019, 05:57:38 pm
Bottom line - we need more legal immigration.   With a birthrate below replacement level,  a nation can best sustain economic growth through immigration.

Actaully, we need to enact a moratorium on ALL migration to this country in addition to building the wall.

This country cannot sustain the economic burden that illegals have imposed on this country.  President Trump has miraculously lowered the unemployment rate and people are back to work.  My hunch is we'll start seeing more families expanding.  Why would anyone want to have kids while on welfare and food stamps??

DEPORT the Illegals.  End chain migration and birthright citizenship.

You want  a larger U.S. population --- give more perks to U.S. citizens so that they can afford to expand their families.  That's a no-brainer!
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: bilo on January 11, 2019, 06:00:20 pm
Baloney. Importing labor is about profit maximization.

We are dissolving our nation for the sake of the state bureaucracy & the investor class.

 888high58888

The other point that is being missed is with controlled immigration we have time to assimilate the new immigrant groups. As a result of uncontrolled open borders and an education cartel that does not seek to help in the assimilation of new people to the country we are more divided by race than ever before. I don't know of any multi-racial nation that prospered for long. I believe they usually break apart.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: Jazzhead on January 11, 2019, 06:01:43 pm
Baloney. Importing labor is about profit maximization.

We are dissolving our nation for the sake of the state bureaucracy & the investor class.

Immigrants have been coming here for two centuries.   They come here with the ambition to work hard, and history shows that, starting with the next generation, they assimilated.   

Were your ancestors immigrants?   Mine were, and so were Mrs. Jazz's.   In her case, her parents came from Mexico - you know, BROWN people.  My father in law was a gardener for rich folks.    They had eight kids.   All went to college, including two who graduated from Stanford and one from Yale.  They are all assimilated, English-speaking, successful, productive Americans.   THAT's the American dream - and it's no different whether you come from Mexico or Norway. 

What has changed that you are now so willing to deny to others the opportunity that allowed you to be born American?   
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: libertybele on January 11, 2019, 06:10:26 pm
Immigrants have been coming here for two centuries.   They come here with the ambition to work hard, and history shows that, starting with the next generation, they assimilated.   

Were your ancestors immigrants?   Mine were, and so were Mrs. Jazz's.   In her case, her parents came from Mexico - you know, BROWN people.  My father in law was a gardener for rich folks.    They had eight kids.   All went to college, including two who graduated from Stanford and one from Yale.  They are all assimilated, English-speaking, successful, productive Americans.   THAT's the American dream - and it's no different whether you come from Mexico or Norway. 

What has changed that you are now so willing to deny to others the opportunity that allowed you to be born American?

2nd generation here on my Mom's side, 3rd generation here on my Dad's side - 50% Slovak/50% Croation.  My grandparents and greatgrandparents came her LEGALLY!  They assimilated!!!  They never ever claimed to be a hyphenated American!!  Those that come here now EXPECT the U.S.A. to support them and to assimilate and bow to their culture and they impose their way of life on others.  No Thank You!!

We need a moratorium on ALL migration into this country period until we have border security, a wall, and we have a handle on our immigration system!!

Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: Jazzhead on January 11, 2019, 06:16:28 pm
2nd generation here on my Mom's side, 3rd generation here on my Dad's side - 50% Slovak/50% Croation.  My grandparents and greatgrandparents came her LEGALLY!  They assimilated!!!  They never ever claimed to be a hyphenated American!!  Those that come here now EXPECT the U.S.A. to support them and to assimilate and bow to their culture and they impose their way of life on others.  No Thank You!!

We need a moratorium on ALL migration into this country period until we have border security, a wall, and we have a handle on our immigration system!!

I understand and agree with your concern about illegal immigration.  But you want to deny to others the same opportunities your ancestors seized.   Legal immigration - indeed, I'd be in favor of robust legal immigration -  is good for the economy and entirely consistent with who we are as a culture and a people.   
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: skeeter on January 11, 2019, 06:16:32 pm
Immigrants have been coming here for two centuries.   They come here with the ambition to work hard, and history shows that, starting with the next generation, they assimilated.   

Were your ancestors immigrants?   Mine were, and so were Mrs. Jazz's.   In her case, her parents came from Mexico - you know, BROWN people.  My father in law was a gardener for rich folks.    They had eight kids.   All went to college, including two who graduated from Stanford and one from Yale.  They are all assimilated, English-speaking, successful, productive Americans.   THAT's the American dream - and it's no different whether you come from Mexico or Norway. 

What has changed that you are now so willing to deny to others the opportunity that allowed you to be born American?

My wife is a legal immigrant, so you can stick your sly implication.

This country exists for the benefit of it citizens first and foremost, not those of other nations.

When it benefits AMERICANS to provide immigration opportunities to others we should do so. Currently 15% of the population is foreign born. I don't see an advantage in continuing the reckless immigration policy we have currently - its obvious we've reached the point of diminishing return.

If you cannot see we are being driven towards socialism with immigration being one big reason why then thats your problem. Treating the nation as the world's grab bag is nuts and will lead to all of us - US citizens as well as those who might immigrate - losing the freedoms you claim to cherish.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: sneakypete on January 11, 2019, 06:17:20 pm


What has changed that you are now so willing to deny to others the opportunity that allowed you to be born American?

@Jazzhead

Now you are claiming Americans were born because illegal aliens ALLOWED them to be born?

What has changed in the MINDSET OF THE IMMIGRANTS. Earlier immigrants came here to be Americans,live free,and profit from their hard work. Today's illegal aliens come here to get all the free stuff,and want to make America a part of Mexico.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: Jazzhead on January 11, 2019, 06:33:55 pm

What has changed in the MINDSET OF THE IMMIGRANTS. Earlier immigrants came here to be Americans,live free,and profit from their hard work.

I haven't been talking about illegal immigrants.   I've been addressing those who want to shut off legal immigration as well.   Legal immigrants today are no different than the earlier immigrants you describe.  They come here to be Americans and be successful.   They are a positive boon to the nation and its economy. 

 
Quote
Today's illegal aliens come here to get all the free stuff, and want to make America a part of Mexico.

No one should come here illegally.   But your statement smacks of ethnic stereotyping and I cannot let it pass without pointing that out.   
 
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: aligncare on January 11, 2019, 06:57:51 pm
I’m worried about becoming an America where patriotism – no, I think I mean, love for America, as founded – is no longer practiced and appreciated the way it was when my family came to America in 1956. I can’t help but think that unrestrained legal, and especially illegal, immigration may be pushing us towards that possible future.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: GrouchoTex on January 11, 2019, 07:00:18 pm
I’m worried about becoming an America where patriotism – no, I think I mean, love for America, as founded – is no longer practiced and appreciated the way it was when my family came to America in 1956. I can’t help but think that unrestrained legal, and especially illegal, immigration may be pushing us towards that possible future.

It seems to be the case, but not just with legal immigrants or illegal immigrants, but with those born here as well.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: aligncare on January 11, 2019, 07:03:17 pm
It seems to be the case, but not just with legal immigrants or illegal immigrants, but with those born here as well.

Sadly, true...
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: skeeter on January 11, 2019, 07:03:53 pm
It seems to be the case, but not just with legal immigrants or illegal immigrants, but with those born here as well.

True, but as the case with crime, just because part of the problem is home grown doesn't mean we should accept the other part that is not.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: libertybele on January 11, 2019, 07:06:04 pm
@Jazzhead

Now you are claiming Americans were born because illegal aliens ALLOWED them to be born?

What has changed in the MINDSET OF THE IMMIGRANTS. Earlier immigrants came here to be Americans,live free,and profit from their hard work. Today's illegal aliens come here to get all the free stuff,and want to make America a part of Mexico.

Sometimes, it's easier to 'ignore' than to try to explain logic.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: GrouchoTex on January 11, 2019, 07:08:04 pm
True, but as the case with crime, just because part of the problem is home grown doesn't mean we should accept the other part that is not.

Absolutely agree with you.
No need to import criminals and malcontents when we have plenty of them here.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: Jazzhead on January 11, 2019, 07:36:36 pm
Sometimes, it's easier to 'ignore' than to try to explain logic.

No, it's easier to simply employ a bit of reading comprehension.   I've been advocating more LEGAL immigration as a way to keep the nation strong (especially in the face of declining birthrates).   I am not disagreeing whatsoever with those who seek solutions to the problem of illegal immigration.   
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: Jazzhead on January 11, 2019, 07:38:56 pm
Absolutely agree with you.
No need to import criminals and malcontents when we have plenty of them here.

And again - the subject is LEGAL immigration.   These aren't criminals and malcontents.  A lot of 'em work harder than the native-born and are very appreciative of the opportunity to be here.   And they don't necessarily become Democrats - unless Republicans drive them away with insinuations that immigration be limited to white folks from Norway.   
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: Hoodat on January 11, 2019, 07:43:29 pm
The government is closed?  Sorry, I didn't notice.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: Jazzhead on January 11, 2019, 08:02:03 pm
The government is closed?  Sorry, I didn't notice.

My brother-in-law has.  He is one of thousands out on unpaid furlough.   At this point, though, he's just kickin' back and relaxing.   
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: skeeter on January 11, 2019, 08:04:44 pm
And again - the subject is LEGAL immigration.   These aren't criminals and malcontents.  A lot of 'em work harder than the native-born and are very appreciative of the opportunity to be here.   And they don't necessarily become Democrats - unless Republicans drive them away with insinuations that immigration be limited to white folks from Norway.

A lot of them do and a lot of them don’t. Is it too much to ask that we limit legal immigration to those that do? Or would that be racist?
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: Restored on January 11, 2019, 08:40:11 pm
My daughter is furloughed. Maybe it will convince her that it is time to leave NoVa.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: sneakypete on January 11, 2019, 11:38:47 pm

Quote
No one should come here illegally
.   

What about your beloved alleged "Dreamers"?

Quote
But your statement smacks of ethnic stereotyping and I cannot let it pass without pointing that out.

Your statement smacks of knee-jerk political correctness. You can't claim I am wrong,so you complain about me being right by trying to demean the descriptor.

Or are you going to try to deny the whole La Raza political movement?
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: sneakypete on January 11, 2019, 11:41:58 pm
My daughter is furloughed. Maybe it will convince her that it is time to leave NoVa.

@Restored

If she doesn't leave within the next few years she is likely to need an internal passport in order to be ALLOWED to leave in the near future.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: edpc on January 12, 2019, 01:44:07 am
Baloney. Importing labor is about profit maximization.

We are dissolving our nation for the sake of the state bureaucracy & the investor class.



Well, well, well.....look who is trying to dissolve the nation by importing labor to maximize profit for the investor class.



Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump

H1-B holders in the United States can rest assured that changes are soon coming which will bring both simplicity and certainty to your stay, including a potential path to citizenship. We want to encourage talented and highly skilled people to pursue career options in the U.S.

6:40 AM · Jan 11, 2019 · Twitter for iPhone

Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: Fishrrman on January 12, 2019, 01:48:14 am
aligncare wrote:
"I know of no one who is against ‘immigrants’ coming to America"

Well, you "know of" one now.
I am that person.
I want to see an END to ALL immigration -- legal as well as illegal -- for at least 50-75 years (with a very few exceptions).

Since 1965, we have been importing the seeds of our nation's destruction at an unbelievably rapid rate.

As far as I'm concerned, this should be stopped cold.
To.... zero.

We're "full up".
We don' need no mo'.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: Formerly Once-Ler on January 12, 2019, 12:29:07 pm
@Once-Ler

Yeah,but you also think Mad Maxine Waters is a genius.

Then again,compared to you she might be one.

blather on russiabot

ps.  This is the first post of yours I have suffered in over a year.  It was everything I expected.  Good job little buddy.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: GrouchoTex on January 12, 2019, 12:48:23 pm
And again - the subject is LEGAL immigration.   These aren't criminals and malcontents.  A lot of 'em work harder than the native-born and are very appreciative of the opportunity to be here.   And they don't necessarily become Democrats - unless Republicans drive them away with insinuations that immigration be limited to white folks from Norway.

No, in fact, the subject is not LEGAL immigration, no matter how often you try to steer the subject to that, and call us all racist in the process.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: sneakypete on January 12, 2019, 02:41:38 pm
aligncare wrote:
"I know of no one who is against ‘immigrants’ coming to America"

Well, you "know of" one now.
I am that person.
I want to see an END to ALL immigration -- legal as well as illegal -- for at least 50-75 years (with a very few exceptions).

Since 1965, we have been importing the seeds of our nation's destruction at an unbelievably rapid rate.

As far as I'm concerned, this should be stopped cold.
To.... zero.

We're "full up".
We don' need no mo'.

@Fishrrman

I ALMOST agree with you,but would make exceptions for geniuses that create new technologies,medical treatments,or just new ways of looking at old problems. People who would want to be coming here whose only interest in anything "free" would be in intellectual freedom and the ability to both profit from and move your ideas forward.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: sneakypete on January 12, 2019, 02:42:39 pm
blather on russiabot

ps.  This is the first post of yours I have suffered in over a year.  It was everything I expected.  Good job little buddy.

@Once-Ler

Thank you. If a fool like you hates it,I know I am doing ok.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: MOD8 on January 12, 2019, 03:06:13 pm
 :hijack: :dontfeed:
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: Emjay on January 12, 2019, 08:40:02 pm
I haven't been talking about illegal immigrants.   I've been addressing those who want to shut off legal immigration as well.   Legal immigrants today are no different than the earlier immigrants you describe.  They come here to be Americans and be successful.   They are a positive boon to the nation and its economy. 

 
No one should come here illegally.   But your statement smacks of ethnic stereotyping and I cannot let it pass without pointing that out.

No one has suggested cutting off legal immigration and you know it.  Some people have suggested a total ban on any immigration for six months until we can get a handle on the problem.

Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: aligncare on January 12, 2019, 08:57:25 pm
No one has suggested cutting off legal immigration and you know it.  Some people have suggested a total ban on any immigration for six months until we can get a handle on the problem.

@Fishrrman believes we need a much longer pause than that. I kinda agree, though the actual time is a matter of debate.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: skeeter on January 12, 2019, 09:42:18 pm

Well, well, well.....look who is trying to dissolve the nation by importing labor to maximize profit for the investor class.

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump

H1-B holders in the United States can rest assured that changes are soon coming which will bring both simplicity and certainty to your stay, including a potential path to citizenship. We want to encourage talented and highly skilled people to pursue career options in the U.S.

6:40 AM · Jan 11, 2019 · Twitter for iPhone


Did you expect me to do an about face because its Trump? I don't like importing labor that can be easily found in a nation of 350 million souls, and I don't care who is doing it.



Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: edpc on January 12, 2019, 10:39:50 pm
Did you expect me to do an about face because its Trump? I don't like importing labor that can be easily found in a nation of 350 million souls, and I don't care who is doing it.


All I’ve ever expected is for people to see how many times he’s been on both sides of each big issue and not the person he’s pretending to be at any given point, but that seems to be a huge ask.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: skeeter on January 12, 2019, 10:51:01 pm

All I’ve ever expected is for people to see how many times he’s been on both sides of each big issue, but that seems to be a huge ask.

Results are all I care about. If Trump doesn't get em he'll be back in the private sector and I'll be hoping the next guy gets it done. I really don't care who it is.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: Chosen Daughter on January 12, 2019, 11:44:51 pm


Well, well, well.....look who is trying to dissolve the nation by importing labor to maximize profit for the investor class.



Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump

H1-B holders in the United States can rest assured that changes are soon coming which will bring both simplicity and certainty to your stay, including a potential path to citizenship. We want to encourage talented and highly skilled people to pursue career options in the U.S.

6:40 AM · Jan 11, 2019 · Twitter for iPhone


As if we don't have Engineers here in America.  That could have been a good program but so much abuse.  It really is to hire foreigners so that they can pay less.  Well at least I can feel that the different classes are not all that different.  Unauthorized immigrants are employed in production 14% to American 9%.  In 2016.  Not sure how job growth is going to help Americans either when we are constantly raising the H-1b numbers.  Not for lower wage workers also when we know that unauthorized immigrants are taking these jobs say 3 out of every 4 jobs.  And illegal immigration is up 240% in the last 4 months.
Title: Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
Post by: Restored on January 13, 2019, 12:56:52 pm
As if we don't have Engineers here in America. 

There are two choices. Allow in programmers from India or outsource to India. We are in a "We want cheap programmers" cycle. It will eventually swing back to "We need American programmers" after Jindish cusses out a VP who complained about direct deposits not being done. Programmers are a finite lot because 50% of them want to get out of coding in 5 years.
Some companies can't outsource coding because they aren't allowed to send their data overseas.