The Briefing Room
General Category => National/Breaking News => Topic started by: Sanguine on September 10, 2018, 10:51:12 pm
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Washington, DC) — Judicial Watch announced today that U.S. District Court Judge Christopher R. Cooper issued an order stating that the Army must reconsider its decision denying a Purple Heart to Sgt. Joshua Berry for injuries sustained in the 2009 international terrorist attack at Fort Hood, Texas.
The August 22 order calls for the Army to reconsider its decision and to act appropriately. If the Army wishes to stick with the denial, it must sufficiently explain why Sgt. Berry is not entitled to the Purple Heart.
On remand, the Army, assuming it wishes to stick with its determination, must explain why Berry is not entitled to a Purple Heart and do so with sufficient clarity that “a court can measure†the denial “against the ‘arbitrary or capricious’ standard of the [Administrative Procedures Act].â€
Judicial Watch on October 12, 2017, filed a lawsuit on behalf of Sgt. Berry’s father, Howard M. Berry, who is challenging the Army’s denial ...
https://www.judicialwatch.org/press-room/press-releases/judicial-watch-victory-judge-orders-army-to-reconsider-granting-purple-heart-to-sgt-joshua-berry-for-injuries-sustained-in-2009-fort-hood-terror-attack/?utm_source=deployer&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=tipsheet&utm_term=members&utm_content=20180910224537 (https://www.judicialwatch.org/press-room/press-releases/judicial-watch-victory-judge-orders-army-to-reconsider-granting-purple-heart-to-sgt-joshua-berry-for-injuries-sustained-in-2009-fort-hood-terror-attack/?utm_source=deployer&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=tipsheet&utm_term=members&utm_content=20180910224537)
Workplace violence my a**.
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Workplace violence my a**.
@Sanguine
The SOB doesn't deserve a Purple Heart because he wasn't wounded in combat by a declared enemy. He was shot by a fellow soldier committing criminal assault/attempted murder.
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SORRY but no metal for Sgt. Berry. Not for cheapening everything.
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Interesting. I would not have expected that reaction from either of you. Is it because he wasn't in a war zone?
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Interesting. I would not have expected that reaction from either of you. Is it because he wasn't in a war zone?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple_Heart
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple_Heart
Not sure what part is relevant here, @Bigun?
The Purple Heart is awarded in the name of the President of the United States to any member of the Armed Forces of the United States who, while serving under competent authority in any capacity with one of the U.S. Armed Services after April 5, 1917, has been wounded or killed.
Also, I found the JW story a little confusing. Why was the father the one filing suit?
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Interesting. I would not have expected that reaction from either of you. Is it because he wasn't in a war zone?
@Sanguine
It's because he is trying to steal something that isn't his. The Purple Heart Medal is ONLY awarded to military members who are killed or wounded while in combat with an armed enemy. You don't get one if you are shot or killed by your fellow soldier because you didn't earn it any more than you would have earned one from being killed in an auto accident.
I will tell you how seriously this is taken. I was wounded twice in Laos by shrapnel from B-40 rockets,and didn't get a Purple Heart either time. One reason is I didn't put myself in for one or ask anyone else to put me in for one because the wounds were so minor they quit bleeding with a bandage. I still have the scars,though.
Also,it would have taken the testimony of one of the guys with me that they witnessed me being wounded. You do NOT get a Purple Heart because YOU say you earned one. You get one because OTHER people were with you when you were wounded,they were witnesses to the wound,and they signed statements saying you were wounded while in combat with enemy forces. I would have been embarrassed to even ask for a witness statement over something so minor,so I didn't get one.
Even though I WAS wounded by enemy fire while in combat,in MY mind,I STILL didn't deserve one for wounds so minor they basically quit bleeding on their own. Not while I had friends getting arms and legs traumatically amputated from machine gun fire hitting bones.
SOOOOO. Somebody tell that punk that "sympathy" is between shit and syphilis in the dictionary,and to look there if he feels like some sort of victum.
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@Sanguine
It's because he is trying to steal something that isn't his. The Purple Heart Medal is ONLY awarded to military members who are killed or wounded while in combat with an armed enemy. You don't get one if you are shot or killed by your fellow soldier because you didn't earn it any more than you would have earned one from being killed in an auto accident.
I will tell you how seriously this is taken. I was wounded twice in Laos by shrapnel from B-40 rockets,and didn't get a Purple Heart either time. One reason is I didn't put myself in for one or ask anyone else to put me in for one because the wounds were so minor they quit bleeding with a bandage. I still have the scars,though.
Also,it would have taken the testimony of one of the guys with me that they witnessed me being wounded. You do NOT get a Purple Heart because YOU say you earned one. You get one because OTHER people were with you when you were wounded,they were witnesses to the wound,and they signed statements saying you were wounded while in combat with enemy forces. I would have been embarrassed to even ask for a witness statement over something so minor,so I didn't get one.
Even though I WAS wounded by enemy fire while in combat,in MY mind,I STILL didn't deserve one for wounds so minor they basically quit bleeding on their own. Not while I had friends getting arms and legs traumatically amputated from machine gun fire hitting bones.
SOOOOO. Somebody tell that punk that "sympathy" is between shit and syphilis in the dictionary,and to look there if he feels like some sort of victum.
Guys in my outfit (and yours) suffered wounds worse than any of those John F'n Kerry suffered on a regular basis and never even went to the dispensary much less put themselves in for the Purple Heart.
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This guy must be a ferret faced Frank Burns type. I remember on one episode where Frank slipped and hurt his back on the way to the latrine and put himself in for a PH.
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Guys in my outfit (and yours) suffered wounds worse than any of those John F'n Kerry suffered on a regular basis and never even went to the dispensary much less put themselves in for the Purple Heart.
@Bigun
And none of them "wounded" themselves or put themselves in for one,either. Kerry got away with this because of his status as boat commander,and because of his connections to the Kennedy Crime Family.
He got his Silver Star the same way. He put himself in for it when HIS commanding officer was on leave,and he was the acting commanding officer that had to sign approval for the award.
Kerry was never once wounded in combat.
Calling Kerry scum is insulting to real scum.
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@Bigun
And none of them "wounded" themselves or put themselves in for one,either. Kerry got away with this because of his status as boat commander,and because of his connections to the Kennedy Crime Family.
He got his Silver Star the same way. He put himself in for it when HIS commanding officer was on leave,and he was the acting commanding officer that had to sign approval for the award.
Kerry was never once wounded in combat.
Calling Kerry scum is insulting to real scum.
:amen: :beer:
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Thank you "swiftboaters"
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@Sanguine
It's because he is trying to steal something that isn't his. The Purple Heart Medal is ONLY awarded to military members who are killed or wounded while in combat with an armed enemy. You don't get one if you are shot or killed by your fellow soldier because you didn't earn it any more than you would have earned one from being killed in an auto accident.
I will tell you how seriously this is taken. I was wounded twice in Laos by shrapnel from B-40 rockets,and didn't get a Purple Heart either time. One reason is I didn't put myself in for one or ask anyone else to put me in for one because the wounds were so minor they quit bleeding with a bandage. I still have the scars,though.
Also,it would have taken the testimony of one of the guys with me that they witnessed me being wounded. You do NOT get a Purple Heart because YOU say you earned one. You get one because OTHER people were with you when you were wounded,they were witnesses to the wound,and they signed statements saying you were wounded while in combat with enemy forces. I would have been embarrassed to even ask for a witness statement over something so minor,so I didn't get one.
Even though I WAS wounded by enemy fire while in combat,in MY mind,I STILL didn't deserve one for wounds so minor they basically quit bleeding on their own. Not while I had friends getting arms and legs traumatically amputated from machine gun fire hitting bones.
SOOOOO. Somebody tell that punk that "sympathy" is between shit and syphilis in the dictionary,and to look there if he feels like some sort of victum.
As of March 1973, the criteria also expanded to cover a military member who was wounded in a terrorist attack. Not just in armed combat against an enemy force.
(Now this just adds to the question if this was a terrorist attack or workplace violence).
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Thank you "swiftboaters"
:amen: :amen: and :amen:
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BKMK
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:amen: :amen: and :amen:
To this day the liberal press carries Kerry's water over the Vets who outed the traitor.
Setting the Record Straight on the Swift Boat Veterans
https://www.weeklystandard.com/mark-hemingway/setting-the-record-straight-on-the-swift-boat-veterans (https://www.weeklystandard.com/mark-hemingway/setting-the-record-straight-on-the-swift-boat-veterans)
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple_Heart
U.S. Armed Services after April 5, 1917, has been wounded or killed. Specific examples of services which warrant the Purple Heart include any action against an enemy of the United States; any action with an opposing armed force of a foreign country in which the Armed Forces of the United States are or have been engaged; while serving with friendly foreign forces engaged in an armed conflict against an opposing armed force in which the United States is not a belligerent party; as a result of an act of any such enemy of opposing armed forces; or as the result of an act of any hostile foreign force.After March 28, 1973, it may be awarded as a result of an international terrorist attack against the United States or a foreign nation friendly to the United States, recognized as such an attack by the Secretary of the Army, or jointly by the Secretaries of the separate armed services concerned if persons from more than one service are wounded in the attack.
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As of March 1973, the criteria also expanded to cover a military member who was wounded in a terrorist attack. Not just in armed combat against an enemy force.
(Now this just adds to the question if this was a terrorist attack or workplace violence).
@AbaraXas
Well,HELL,why don't we just turn them into "attendance badges" and give everybody one?
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@AbaraXas
Well,HELL,why don't we just turn them into "attendance badges" and give everybody one?
I guess it all depends if you consider Islamic Terrorism the same as some postal employee getting pissed he didn't get a raise or an actual international effort engaged in war against our country. They are at war with us, no matter if you want to acknowledge it or not.
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@AbaraXas
Well,HELL,why don't we just turn them into "attendance badges" and give everybody one?
Cheapen everything seems to be the prevailing mood lately. I'm not playing!
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Cheapen everything seems to be the prevailing mood lately. I'm not playing!
So it is no longer 'about damned time'?
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php?topic=161851.0 (http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php?topic=161851.0)
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php?topic=161550.0 (http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php?topic=161550.0)
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So it is no longer 'about damned time'?
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php?topic=161851.0 (http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php?topic=161851.0)
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php?topic=161550.0 (http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php?topic=161550.0)
Killed and maimed at their home while forcibly unarmed by a terrorist! No different than if they had been in Afganistan!
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I guess it all depends if you consider Islamic Terrorism the same as some postal employee getting pissed he didn't get a raise or an actual international effort engaged in war against our country. They are at war with us, no matter if you want to acknowledge it or not.
@AbaraXas
So what? How was he fighting that terrorist by sitting in a audience at a military base in the US? Guess what,Bubba,if you were a truck driver injured in a wreck,helicopter or aircraft crewman injured by aircraft accident in a combat zone you didn't get a Purple Heart,either. To earn a Purple Heart you MUST have been wounded in combat against an armed enemy.
BTW,you know what is really behind this,right? Some of the REMF officers and senior NCO's that were there and who had spent their entire careers avoiding combat wanted to be awarded a Purple Heart to improve their promotion chances.
When the Purple Heart ceases being a combat only award,it will cease to have any meaning at all.
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@sneakypete @Bigun
Thank you both for your service.
(https://watchusplaygames.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/memorialday-2012-deserts-of-warzone-iraq-afghanistan-soldier-salute.jpg)
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Thank you very much, Sir! It was my pleasure.
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@AbaraXas
So what? How was he fighting that terrorist by sitting in a audience at a military base in the US? Guess what,Bubba,if you were a truck driver injured in a wreck,helicopter or aircraft crewman injured by aircraft accident in a combat zone you didn't get a Purple Heart,either. To earn a Purple Heart you MUST have been wounded in combat against an armed enemy.
BTW,you know what is really behind this,right? Some of the REMF officers and senior NCO's that were there and who had spent their entire careers avoiding combat wanted to be awarded a Purple Heart to improve their promotion chances.
When the Purple Heart ceases being a combat only award,it will cease to have any meaning at all.
Maybe I am missing something. When these purple hearts were awarded for victims of the Fort Hood terrorist attack, people here cheered for it and said it was 'about time' (link above). They were victims of terrorism just like troops sitting in station in the embassy in Beirut when a truck bomb went off. They were awarded the Purple Heart too.
Why is it we cheered when they were awarded, but now say it is a travesty that they were awarded- for the very same people in the very same incident?
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Maybe I am missing something. When these purple hearts were awarded for victims of the Fort Hood terrorist attack, people here cheered for it and said it was 'about time' (link above). They were victims of terrorism just like troops sitting in station in the embassy in Beirut when a truck bomb went off. They were awarded the Purple Heart too.
Why is it we cheered when they were awarded, but now say it is a travesty that they were awarded- for the very same people in the very same incident?
What's this "we stuff",white man?
The Marines killed in the Beirut bombing were deployed to what was considered to be a combat zone. It's been a while since Texas was a combat zone.
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What's this "we stuff",white man?
The Marines killed in the Beirut bombing were deployed to what was considered to be a combat zone. It's been a while since Texas was a combat zone.
Yeah, it has been a while. About the time Nidal Hassan went off.
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Yeah, it has been a while. About the time Nidal Hassan went off.
888high58888
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Yeah, it has been a while. About the time Nidal Hassan went off.
@Sanguine
Ok,you just clearly established that you have no idea what a combat zone is and have never been to one.
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@Sanguine
Ok,you just clearly established that you have no idea what a combat zone is and have never been to one.
No, that has not been established.
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At least in a combat zone, one is armed. Not so with the Ft. Hood victims.
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At least in a combat zone, one is armed. Not so with the Ft. Hood victims.
And some of them surely should have been armed. Even at their own home base. Some percentage of them should be on duty and armed 24/7/365 no matter where they are in the world.
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I'm just questioning if the courts even have the jurisdiction here.
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My thought are the same expressed by Free Vulcan do the courts have any jurisdiction here?
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No, that has not been established.
@Sanguine
Yes,it has. Your ignorance about it is proof of this.
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@Sanguine
Yes,it has. Your ignorance about it is proof of this.
The fact that you can't even see that you could be wrong belies that.
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And some of them surely should have been armed. Even at their own home base. Some percentage of them should be on duty and armed 24/7/365 no matter where they are in the world.
@Bigun
Unfortunately the regular peacetime army is ran by career Regular Army officers who care about nothing on Earth more than their careers,and are terrified of being blamed if one of their garrison soldiers shoots somebody with a issue weapon,and it gets back to the Pentegram that they weren't controlling their men.
I have had RA officers come up to me while traveling around VN with a sub gun of some sort because they are light and easy to carry,and inform me I am carrying an unauthorized weapon and they have to seize it. Every single one of them changed their minds when I told them "You got THAT shit right!"
This is the prime reason the regular army hated Special Forces. They had no authority over us,and couldn't order us to do a damn thing we didn't want to do. We had a different agenda we were working on than them that didn't involve following rule books,and they hate anybody and everybody that doesn't wear red and march in a straight line. It would really piss them off when they would ask "what are you doing in our AO?",and we would truthfully tell them "You don't have a need to know." If it hadn't been that way we would have never had the time to train any indigenous troops or run any missions because they wanted us under their command to run recon missions for THEM.
There was a USMC General officer relived of his command for refusing orders to send armor and infantry in to keep a remote SF camp in his AO from being overran by the NVA. He flat refused to do it,and Westmoreland flew into DaNang the next morning to personally relieve him of his command and replace him. As a result the camp was overran,several hundred Montagnard civilians were killed by the NVA as a result when the camp was overran. To this day there are still 2 SF guys listed as missing in action. The only reason more weren't missing is because the SF guys from CCN took it upon themselves to fly in the next morning at sunrise with SVN helicopter pilots flying the helicopters,and they rescued the survivors that were still in hiding as the NVA ran off. If that Marine General had flown in a couple of companies of Marines the previous afternoon,the camp would have never been overran. The NVA drove into the camp in freaking Soviet tanks,and the troops there had nothing that would defeat the armor other than mortars,and that would take a direct hit. Something really hard to do with a mortar. IIRC,this was 1969.
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And some of them surely should have been armed. Even at their own home base. Some percentage of them should be on duty and armed 24/7/365 no matter where they are in the world.
@Bigun
BTW,the only soldiers armed on a daily basis at army bases are the MP's,and they aren't allowed to carry a chambered round in their handguns. The only exception to this rule that I am aware of are the guards at Special Operations compounds. Do NOT screw with them because they WILL blow you away and get away with it. Your name and face is on their list of people to get admitted that day,and if you ain't on the list,you don't get in. Not even if they know you personally.
I suppose the same is true of S-1,S-2,and S-3 headquarters at Division levels,but have never been in a division,so I am just guessing.
One good rule of thumb to follow ANYWHERE you go in the army is that if the guy guarding the gate is a E-7,E8, or E-9 and he tells you that you are not coming in if your name and photo isn't on his list,take his word for it and leave quietly.
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I'm just questioning if the courts even have the jurisdiction here.
@Free Vulcan
No,they don't. The only courts that have any say on this issue are the JAG courts. Military members don't come under or have rights under Constitutional Law. Good catch!
Then again,if Congress sticks it's big red nose in,they can get what they want because they will cut the military budget if they don't.
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@Bigun
Unfortunately the regular peacetime army is ran by career Regular Army officers who care about nothing on Earth more than their careers,and are terrified of being blamed if one of their garrison soldiers shoots somebody with a issue weapon,and it gets back to the Pentegram that they weren't controlling their men.
I have had RA officers come up to me while traveling around VN with a sub gun of some sort because they are light and easy to carry,and inform me I am carrying an unauthorized weapon and they have to seize it. Every single one of them changed their minds when I told them "You got THAT shit right!"
This is the prime reason the regular army hated Special Forces. They had no authority over us,and couldn't order us to do a damn thing we didn't want to do. We had a different agenda we were working on than them that didn't involve following rule books,and they hate anybody and everybody that doesn't wear red and march in a straight line. It would really piss them off when they would ask "what are you doing in our AO?",and we would truthfully tell them "You don't have a need to know." If it hadn't been that way we would have never had the time to train any indigenous troops or run any missions because they wanted us under their command to run recon missions for THEM.
There was a USMC General officer relived of his command for refusing orders to send armor and infantry in to keep a remote SF camp in his AO from being overran by the NVA. He flat refused to do it,and Westmoreland flew into DaNang the next morning to personally relieve him of his command and replace him. As a result the camp was overran,several hundred Montagnard civilians were killed by the NVA as a result when the camp was overran. To this day there are still 2 SF guys listed as missing in action. The only reason more weren't missing is because the SF guys from CCN took it upon themselves to fly in the next morning at sunrise with SVN helicopter pilots flying the helicopters,and they rescued the survivors that were still in hiding as the NVA ran off. If that Marine General had flown in a couple of companies of Marines the previous afternoon,the camp would have never been overran. The NVA drove into the camp in freaking Soviet tanks,and the troops there had nothing that would defeat the armor other than mortars,and that would take a direct hit. Something really hard to do with a mortar. IIRC,this was 1969.
@sneakypete
There is no doubt that things have changed radically since I got out and not for the better either.
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@Sanguine
The Purple Heart Medal is ONLY awarded to military members who are killed or wounded while in combat with an armed enemy. You don't get one if you are shot or killed by your fellow soldier because you didn't earn it any more than you would have earned one from being killed in an auto accident.
Right. My father had one of his Purple Hearts rescinded when it was discovered the tank round that wounded him and killed several in his squad was fired by an Anerican tank and not Chinese or North Korean. No Heart for "friendly fire".
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Right. My father had one of his Purple Hearts rescinded when it was discovered the tank round that wounded him and killed several in his squad was fired by an Anerican tank and not Chinese or North Korean. No Heart for "friendly fire".
That sucks, IMO. You put yourself in harm's way while I sit here at my keyboard, I just don't care which way the round was going.
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Right. My father had one of his Purple Hearts rescinded when it was discovered the tank round that wounded him and killed several in his squad was fired by an Anerican tank and not Chinese or North Korean. No Heart for "friendly fire".
@Smokin Joe
Sad,because your father WAS in combat with an armed enemy or the US tanks wouldn't have been firing.
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@Smokin Joe
Sad,because your father WAS in combat with an armed enemy or the US tanks wouldn't have been firing.
Dad was pretty philosophical about it all. He was awarded it three times in all, before they rescinded that one. He wasn't in it for the medals, and would have gladly given them all up to have the guys that tank round killed back--he was the lucky one, they absorbed most of the damage.
Still, as I grow older myself, I realize it is nice to have tangible symbols of recognition for the things you do (or, in some cases, are done to you).
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That sucks, IMO. You put yourself in harm's way while I sit here at my keyboard, I just don't care which way the round was going.
Yeah. I would change that to all battlefield injuries not self-inflicted and sustained in active combat, but I don't make the rules. A good 'sea lawyer' might have claimed that the tank round was fired as a result of enemy action, but my father is one who has had so many various other non-military awards over the years, another oak leaf on a small ribbon in a shadow box doesn't matter enough to him to contest it.