Author Topic: Republicans Who Can’t Oppose Child Mutilation Should Get Out Of Office  (Read 904 times)

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Offline mystery-ak

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 Republicans Who Can’t Oppose Child Mutilation Should Get Out Of Office

Protecting people from murder, assault, battery, and mutilation by criminals and predators is the first and most basic government function. A state that cannot do this has no moral legitimacy to do anything else.

By Joy Pullmann
April 8, 2021

To explain his veto of a bill that would have protected children from transgender genital mutilation, Arkansas Gov. Asa Hutchinson claimed it would be “a vast government overreach.”

Using language similar to North Dakota Gov. Kristi Noem’s in vetoing a bill to protect girls’ sports from unfair and irrational transgender male competition, Hutchinson further claimed:

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    I don’t shy away from the battle when it is necessary and defensible. But the most recent action of the general assembly, while well intended, is off course. And I must veto House Bill 1570.

    House Bill 1570 would put the state as the definitive oracle of medical care overriding parents, patients, and healthcare experts. While in some instances the state must act to protect life, the state should not presume to jump into the middle of every medical, human, and ethical issue. This would be, and is, a vast government overreach.

Hutchinson’s excuses prove him to be an empty suit who understands nothing about the proper uses and abuses of government, a fool who can only parrot slogans without understanding one word that comes out of his own mouth. It is not “government overreach” for government to do its first and most basic job.
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Offline roamer_1

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I will have to revisit Noem if her reasoning is the same as Hutchinson.

Because Hutchinson is right. Imposing the will of the state upon a parent in the determination of a child's xexual preference is a very bad mistake. And that without recourse for the parents. A very bad idea.

At least make it criminal so that the state has a burden of proof, and the parents have the benefit of mounting a defense and a decision by their peers.

I agree absolutely - this is a mutilation and a bad way to handle a delusion - In fact, proven so. But do this and the precedent will come back to bite you.

Hutchinson is right - regulate the industry not the family. It does the same thing, and does not breach the authority of the parent.

Offline Sled Dog

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I guess we should eliminate all laws against child abuse, because that's the state getting between a parent and his victi...child.

Hutchinson is angling for a spot on the board of some woke company, perhaps.

Noemi was just too gutless to fight, because she discovered "Principles".
« Last Edit: April 08, 2021, 08:34:18 PM by Sled Dog »
The GOP is not the party leadership.  The GOP is the party MEMBERSHIP.   The members need to kick the leaders out if they leaders are going the wrong way.  No coddling allowed.

Offline roamer_1

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I guess we should eliminate all laws against child abuse, because that's the state getting between a parent and his victi...child.

Hutchinson is angling for a spot on the board of some woke company, perhaps.

Noemi was just too gutless to fight, because she discovered "Principles".

Exactly wrong. Asa Hutchison has been a Reaganite stalwart all the way along. If he says it's overbroad you better listen. Giving the homo crowd license on a silver platter is exactly the wrong thing to do. And that is what giving the state authority over a child's sexual disposition over his parents objection is going to do. This will come back, reverse, and bite y'all right in the butt.

Offline The_Reader_David

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Hutchinson is wrong because the states have always had the right and duty to regulate the practice of medicine in the public interest.  Doing so is not overreach.  It is not in the public interest to allow children to demand and receive medical modification their bodies (whether by chemical modification of their endocrine functions or surgery) in such a way that they will be rendered sterile before they reach the age of majority, or even the age of consent (in states where that is lower than 18).

I would suggest as a general rule, if one is incapable of giving legal consent to have sexual intercourse, one is incapable of giving consent to have a sex change.
And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know what this was all about.

Offline roamer_1

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Hutchinson is wrong because the states have always had the right and duty to regulate the practice of medicine in the public interest.  Doing so is not overreach.  It is not in the public interest to allow children to demand and receive medical modification their bodies (whether by chemical modification of their endocrine functions or surgery) in such a way that they will be rendered sterile before they reach the age of majority, or even the age of consent (in states where that is lower than 18).

I would suggest as a general rule, if one is incapable of giving legal consent to have sexual intercourse, one is incapable of giving consent to have a sex change.

This is not the practice of medicine - That is precisely Hutchinson's point If you will listen to what he said, he said he would have signed that in an instant.

This is authority of the state imposing and usurping the authority of the parents.
Shall the state impose the same stricture against male circumcision, regardless of religious belief? That will be next. Goose/gander.


Online Right_in_Virginia

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@roamer_1   --- Please explain why Hutchinson saw no problem with this:

Jewish Deplorable
@TrumpJew2


In 2019, Asa Hutchinson signed a bill banning female genital mutilation of minors.  His “limited government” defense is BS

Quote
Arkansas SB318 | 2019 | 92nd General Assembly
Summary (2019-03-26) To Prohibit Unlawful Female Genital Mutilation Of A Minor; To Create Awareness Programs Concerning And Statistical Tracking Of Unlawful Female Genital Mutilation; And To Declare...
https://legiscan.com/AR/bill/SB318/2019

8:45 PM · Apr 6, 2021·Twitter for iPhone
https://twitter.com/TrumpJew2/status/1379596208231055360

"Remember this day forever." -- President Donald J. Trump, January 6, 2021

Online Right_in_Virginia

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Amber Athey
@amber_athey


Hutchinson and Noem thought they could get away with the “you just don’t get it” defense. But people aren’t listening. Nor should they — underneath their posturing about limited govt and constitutional scholars, they were really protecting biz interests

Quote

Asa Hutchinson commits cable news seppuku - The Spectator
Arkansas governor Asa Hutchinson lit himself on fire by going on Tucker Carlson's show to explain a transgender bill veto
https://spectator.us/topic/arkansas-asa-hutchinson-tucker-carlson-transgender-bill-kristi-noem/

10:37 PM · Apr 7, 2021·Twitter for iPhone
https://twitter.com/amber_athey/status/1379986739368976386
"Remember this day forever." -- President Donald J. Trump, January 6, 2021

Offline roamer_1

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@roamer_1   --- Please explain why Hutchinson saw no problem with this:

8:45 PM · Apr 6, 2021·Twitter for iPhone
https://twitter.com/TrumpJew2/status/1379596208231055360

@Right_in_Virginia - That is banning a procedure. He specifically said if it was a medical procedure he'd have signed the bill - It is not the procedure that he objected to. He said the bill is broader than that.

Offline jafo2010

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As a nation, the USA has been practicing mass genocide now for almost 50 years.  And worse, we are now exporting that genocide to other countries with taxpayer dollars.  This country was lost to evil forces long ago.

Arguing this nonsense makes no sense.  And in all the arguments, not once did I hear it mentioned that John Hopkins Medical Center, renown at one time for doing gender reassignment surgery discontinued said surgery because they determined that folks seeking such were actually suffering from a mental disorder.  If JH is right, and I believe they are, then doing anything to a minor is a criminal act. 

Then there is the fact that many realize after going through puberty that they do not want to do the gender reassignment.  Damaging a child with chemicals to affect that outcome is nothing less than criminal.

And someone up stream mentioned circumcision.  Well, circumcision or male genital mutilation MGM, is one more needless act of mutilation we have been doing for one hundred years that is NOT necessary.  It came about as standard practice in the USA because of what happened to men fighting trench warfare in World War I.  The USA is the only nation that has it as a standard practice, other than Jews and Muslims, who do it for religious reasons.

We need to end liberalism in this nation and get back to being a sane country before it is too late.  Sadly, we are no where near that goal, for the liberals are winning.  And if they add PR and DC as states, and then pack the court, this nation as a republic is over.  DEAD, with zero chance for revival!!!

Offline roamer_1

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And someone up stream mentioned circumcision.  Well, circumcision or male genital mutilation MGM, is one more needless act of mutilation we have been doing for one hundred years that is NOT necessary.  It came about as standard practice in the USA because of what happened to men fighting trench warfare in World War I.  The USA is the only nation that has it as a standard practice, other than Jews and Muslims, who do it for religious reasons.

And just like that, we've moved from a psychological dysphoria to a direct intrusion on faith. Millions of Christians circumcise because Yah said to do it... It has never been physically necessary. It is a tradition or rite which has been maintained for millennia. But if you were the state - and many states are already hostile toward the Judeo-Christian religion - You would now have the authority to intercede, purportedly on the child's behalf, and curtail the religious practice and expression of faith it represents.

Thank you for making my point.

Online Right_in_Virginia

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@Right_in_Virginia - That is banning a procedure. He specifically said if it was a medical procedure he'd have signed the bill - It is not the procedure that he objected to. He said the bill is broader than that.

Really?  This excuse works for you?

The difference is with gender reassignment there isn't one procedure ... there's a whole host of hormone as well as multiple surgeries required to change a boy into a girl or a girl into a boy. The whole process should be put on hold until the patient reaches the age of consent.

So, really?  Asa's excuse works for you?


« Last Edit: April 09, 2021, 08:06:25 AM by Right_in_Virginia »
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Online Right_in_Virginia

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As a nation, the USA has been practicing mass genocide now for almost 50 years.  And worse, we are now exporting that genocide to other countries with taxpayer dollars.

Are you referring to gender reassignment with this statement?  @jafo2010

Arguing this nonsense makes no sense.  And in all the arguments, not once did I hear it mentioned that John Hopkins Medical Center, renown at one time for doing gender reassignment surgery discontinued said surgery because they determined that folks seeking such were actually suffering from a mental disorder.  If JH is right, and I believe they are, then doing anything to a minor is a criminal act. 

The medical care provided to minors (until now) is routinely for the treatment of accident or disease.  Even cosmetic surgery (a girl thing) requires a psych evaluation and parental consent.  Most surgeons won't perform any facial surgery until all bones and structure are set; so this pushes the minimum age for surgery to mid-teen.

Gender transitioning begins before puberty.  Around the age of 10 (although this is now happening even earlier) doctors can prescribe hormone blockers, which are injections or implants that keep the body from releasing estrogen or testosterone.  This is step one into the wonderful world of hormone manipulation that will last a lifetime.  Next up:  Multiple surgeries.


Then there is the fact that many realize after going through puberty that they do not want to do the gender reassignment.  Damaging a child with chemicals to affect that outcome is nothing less than criminal.

Agree.  This is why I agree with stopping the gender reassignment, including the period of  transitioning, until the patient has reached the age of consent.  If I had my druthers I'd also make a 3 visit psych evaluation mandatory (but this appears to be just me)


And someone up stream mentioned circumcision.  Well, circumcision or male genital mutilation MGM, is one more needless act of mutilation we have been doing for one hundred years that is NOT necessary.  It came about as standard practice in the USA because of what happened to men fighting trench warfare in World War I.  The USA is the only nation that has it as a standard practice, other than Jews and Muslims, who do it for religious reasons.

Mostly true.  The exception being "mutilation"  -- the penis is not cut off, it is not maimed or mangled; nor is its function impaired.    \
 
We need to end liberalism in this nation and get back to being a sane country before it is too late.  Sadly, we are no where near that goal, for the liberals are winning.  And if they add PR and DC as states, and then pack the court, this nation as a republic is over.  DEAD, with zero chance for revival!!!

I agree.  If we were a sane nation, "gender reassignment" would be laughed out of the medical arena because there would be two sexes as chosen by God.

The transvestite would be on display in the shadows of Greenwich Village  ---  not in our libraries reading to our young children. 

We all know this,  But at this moment for "gender reassignment" the question to answer is "how do we protect our young while we're still in satan's grip?".  And the answer is:  We find a way to stop it, even if it means legislation.

 As for the rest, we pray the proverbial pendulum is ready to start swinging back to normal; and we make the wisest choices in our politics to help give it a shove.  :0001:
"Remember this day forever." -- President Donald J. Trump, January 6, 2021

Offline roamer_1

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Really?  This excuse works for you?

The difference is with gender reassignment there isn't one procedure ... there's a whole host of hormone as well as multiple surgeries required to change a boy into a girl or a girl into a boy. The whole process should be put on hold until the patient reaches the age of consent.

So, really?  Asa's excuse works for you?

Excuse, @Right_in_Virginia ? I don't see an excuse. His intent was not against you, with some exception for those already undergoing transformation... He said he was *FOR* all that.

What he balked at was an overbroad authority granted to the state - And if that is true, I AGREE with him. That is not an excuse. That is a reason. If the language of the bill makes the state the sole arbiter and authority over the children, exluding the parents and the doctors, without charge or trial, that is indeed an overreach. And one  am not comfortable with either, as I have expressed upthread.

Turns out I can walk and chew gum at the same time.
I am certainly for limiting or abolishing the practice of gender change in children...
and it turns out, I would be against governmental overreach too.
Go figger.

And a bill providing for both ought to be vetoed.

But that is merely my speculation, taking Hutchinson at his word...
And also a moot point since the legislature overrode his veto.

So it is law. And when it is challenged we shall both see that I was right all the way along.

« Last Edit: April 09, 2021, 09:52:47 AM by roamer_1 »

Online Right_in_Virginia

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Excuse, @Right_in_Virginia ? I don't see an excuse. His intent was not against you, with some exception for those already undergoing transformation... He said he was *FOR* all that.

What does this jackassery even mean @roamer_1 ?

What he balked at was an overbroad authority granted to the state - And if that is true, I AGREE

What he balked at was fabricated to try and cover his ass.  Whoever called him with a warning will be outed soon enough. 
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Offline The_Reader_David

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This is not the practice of medicine.

That's odd, it involves injections of drugs and surgery under anesthesia and it's being taught in medical schools as the appropriate "treatment" for gender dysphoria, with a lot of them silencing faculty who suggest that treating gender dysphoria in the same way we treat other psychiatric ailments involving delusions is more appropriate.

Your argument vitiates the state's ability to suppress harmful quackery of any sort.
And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know what this was all about.

Offline jafo2010

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roamer_1
And just like that, we've moved from a psychological dysphoria to a direct intrusion on faith. Millions of Christians circumcise because Yah said to do it... It has never been physically necessary. It is a tradition or rite which has been maintained for millennia. But if you were the state - and many states are already hostile toward the Judeo-Christian religion - You would now have the authority to intercede, purportedly on the child's behalf, and curtail the religious practice and expression of faith it represents.

Thank you for making my point.

Maybe I am living under a rock, but I do not know a single Christian faith that has the practice of circumcision.  Not one!  Yes, folks that are Jewish and Muslim, that is a part of their thing, but not one Christian faith. 

Now I went out and searched it, and the net said Coptic Christians, Eritrean and Ethiopian Orthodox Christians practice circumcision.  All three of these Christian religions are small numbers when considering the global population.

The USA is the ONLY COUNTRY that practices circumcision, and we are slowly moving away from it.  At this time, only about half of America is having it done on their male children.  It is mutilation, plain and simple.

I have one son.  When my wife was pregnant, the woman teaching the Lamaze class suggested to the future parents in the room, which there were about 15 couples, like father, like son when asked what one should do.  My son was born on a Friday, and I brought my wife home on Monday, and flew out to my consulting project that night halfway across the country.  My mother in law was there to help my wife.  I flew back in early on Friday.  We sat down and had lunch.  The baby was in his crib while we ate.  And he started to stir.  I was done eating so I went to check on him.

He was wet, so I went to change his diaper.  When I laid the front part of the diaper against his body, he laid there and went OUUUUGH!, lips pursed in pain, like the diaper merely brushing up against his penis caused him severe pain.  I knew then I had just done the worst thing I could have ever done to my son.  We had two more kids, and I told my wife no more circs if we have a boy.  She wanted to fight with me over it, and I said over my dead body.

We are doing so many things wrong in this nation to harm folks.  The argument that children do not feel the circumcision, so it is no problem, THAT IS A BLATANT LIE.  I saw it first hand with my son.  It is mutilation, and no other nation does this.

Offline jafo2010

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Right_in_Virginia
Are you referring to gender reassignment with this statement?  @jafo2010
Geez, I am talking about abortion!!!
ABORTION!
ABORTION!!
ABORTION!!!

Offline jafo2010

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And to the person that said that circumcision causes no harm, you need to do some reading.  I once read that the difference between a circumcised penis and one not circumcised is the difference between black and white TV and a colored TV.  The destruction of hundreds if not thousands of nerve endings has a huge impact from what I read.

Circumcision is mutilation.

Taking children and giving them drugs to alter the development of their body is also mutilation.

But since when did we ever care about our children in this country?  We are allowing teacher unions to keep students out of classes for 1.5 years and counting.  Idiocracy is not just a movie title!!!!!!!!  The lives of millions of children are most likely destroyed, permanently!

And the science of it all, documented data, shows that children are not transmitters of the disease, and are not vulnerable to the disease.  So the science party continues with its ever loving lies.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2021, 03:34:30 PM by jafo2010 »

Offline Sled Dog

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Exactly wrong. Asa Hutchison has been a Reaganite stalwart all the way along.


Not any more.

Conservatives recognize the role of the state exists to protect children, both born and unborn.

PC RINOs do not.  All they care about is stopping American in its tracks.

And your Argument From Authority is a clear fail, anyway.   I know what a conservative is because I are one.   I know what a conservative is not, and one of the exclusionary criteria is permitting the abuse of children for any reason.

Oh.  You didn't realize you were playing the Argument From Authority Game.   You lost it anyway.  Everyone that plays that game loses.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2021, 06:16:24 PM by Sled Dog »
The GOP is not the party leadership.  The GOP is the party MEMBERSHIP.   The members need to kick the leaders out if they leaders are going the wrong way.  No coddling allowed.

Offline Sled Dog

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This is not the practice of medicine - That is precisely Hutchinson's point If you will listen to what he said, he said he would have signed that in an instant.

This is authority of the state imposing and usurping the authority of the parents.
Shall the state impose the same stricture against male circumcision, regardless of religious belief? That will be next. Goose/gander.

Well, you're right there.   Sexually mutilating children is not medical practice, it's sexually mutilating children.

And clearly the state has the obligation to enact laws to protect them from teachers, quacks and so-called "parents" who want to sexually mutilate a child.   

Just like how the sane states ban female circumcisions.

And should ban male circumcisions.
The GOP is not the party leadership.  The GOP is the party MEMBERSHIP.   The members need to kick the leaders out if they leaders are going the wrong way.  No coddling allowed.

Offline Sled Dog

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@Right_in_Virginia - That is banning a procedure. He specifically said if it was a medical procedure he'd have signed the bill - It is not the procedure that he objected to. He said the bill is broader than that.

Oh.

Giving pills that castrate a child for life is not a "procedure".

So it's okay in your eyes.

You keep saying "he said the bill is broader than that", and assuming he's not referring to the Camel's Butt in Washington, which broad is he referring to and explain how she's wider.
The GOP is not the party leadership.  The GOP is the party MEMBERSHIP.   The members need to kick the leaders out if they leaders are going the wrong way.  No coddling allowed.

Offline Sled Dog

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And just like that, we've moved from a psychological dysphoria to a direct intrusion on faith. Millions of Christians circumcise because Yah said to do it... It has never been physically necessary. It is a tradition or rite which has been maintained for millennia. But if you were the state - and many states are already hostile toward the Judeo-Christian religion - You would now have the authority to intercede, purportedly on the child's behalf, and curtail the religious practice and expression of faith it represents.

Thank you for making my point.

What's your point again, that the children ARE NOT the property of their parents, because if they were, then they are property in real terms and then the state gets to define how that property is controlled and handled.

So, no.  Children are not property, and as sovereign individuals the children should not be mutilated, not as females with clitorectomies nor as males, with circumcisions.   It's no big deal to tell the Jews that they can't hack at their baby boys' penises, but they'll have to wait until the bar mitzvah to let the "young man" decide for himself is he wants to bear a physical mark showing his allegiance to his family's God or not.

Or isn't personal choice something we accept around here?

For something more serious, like doing the Full Heaven's Gate thing, the child should certainly not be assisted by doctors or parents.    It's child abuse of the worst order.   People wanting to go Full Eunuch need serious psychological counseling, not the offer of someone to hold the chainsaw with steady hands and anesthetic.
The GOP is not the party leadership.  The GOP is the party MEMBERSHIP.   The members need to kick the leaders out if they leaders are going the wrong way.  No coddling allowed.

Offline Sled Dog

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Really?  This excuse works for you?

The difference is with gender reassignment there isn't one procedure ... there's a whole host of hormone as well as multiple surgeries required to change a boy into a girl or a girl into a boy. The whole process should be put on hold until the patient reaches the age of consent.

So, really?  Asa's excuse works for you?

Hutchinson just trashed true conservative principles to become a SpokesHole for Principled Conservatives, so naturally the Orange-Man-Bad weenies are defending him.

They don't have any logic.

They never do.

That's never stopped them before, why should it start now?
The GOP is not the party leadership.  The GOP is the party MEMBERSHIP.   The members need to kick the leaders out if they leaders are going the wrong way.  No coddling allowed.

Offline Sled Dog

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Excuse, @Right_in_Virginia ? I don't see an excuse. His intent was not against you, with some exception for those already undergoing transformation... He said he was *FOR* all that.

What he balked at was an overbroad authority granted to the state - And if that is true, I AGREE with him. That is not an excuse. That is a reason. If the language of the bill makes the state the sole arbiter and authority over the children, exluding the parents and the doctors, without charge or trial, that is indeed an overreach. And one  am not comfortable with either, as I have expressed upthread.

Turns out I can walk and chew gum at the same time.
I am certainly for limiting or abolishing the practice of gender change in children...
and it turns out, I would be against governmental overreach too.
Go figger.

And a bill providing for both ought to be vetoed.

But that is merely my speculation, taking Hutchinson at his word...
And also a moot point since the legislature overrode his veto.

So it is law. And when it is challenged we shall both see that I was right all the way along.

The state already has the authority to block medical practices.

Guess what?  The Constitution says so.

Why does the state do this?   To protect the patients.

Which patients need protecting the most? 

The young patient with demented Rodent-voting fad-following fools for parents.  Yeah, it's not very likely that normal American, ie conservative, parents want their children mutilated chemically or surgically.   But Rodents want that.

The GOP is not the party leadership.  The GOP is the party MEMBERSHIP.   The members need to kick the leaders out if they leaders are going the wrong way.  No coddling allowed.