Author Topic: Never Trumpers Illustrate Why Loyalty Is An Important Political Virtue  (Read 3123 times)

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Offline mystery-ak

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 Never Trumpers Illustrate Why Loyalty Is An Important Political Virtue

Julie Kelly's book, 'Disloyal Opposition,' ably documents just how tedious and unprincipled Donald Trump's allegedly conservative critics turned out to be.

By Auguste Meyrat
March 16, 2021

After the dust continues to settle on last year’s presidential election with Americans slowly accepting Joe Biden as the 46th president of United States, Julie Kelly’s polemic against the Never Trump movement may seem like yet another instance of a political writer getting it wrong. When Democrats occupy the White House along with the House and Senate, it seems like those writers who opposed Donald Trump won the argument. They can point to the results and claim they knew Trump and his populism would eventually lead to losses and relegate the GOP to their current political quagmire.

But Kelly’s book Disloyal Opposition: How the #NeverTrump Right Tried—and Failed—to Take Down the President is all the more relevant because of what transpired. She was right to take this movement seriously, and her thorough review of it shows exactly why Trump lost. It wasn’t that he had issues leading, but that his party and the conservative intelligentsia had issues following.

In too many cases during his administration, the real challenges to Trump came from his own side, even as he faced a second impeachment after he left office. Kelly shows this was not another typical instance of Republicans living up to their reputation as “The Stupid Party,” but of a group of influential Republicans allowing their intellect and pride to get the best of them.

What, at first, might come off as a book by a political junkie for political junkies ends up revealing deeper truths about politics and political culture, truths that conservatives would do well to internalize. The first truth is that the GOP and conservatism has changed significantly with President Trump.

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https://thefederalist.com/2021/03/16/never-trumpers-illustrate-why-loyalty-is-an-important-political-virtue/
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Offline txradioguy

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But loyalty to whom?   Or to what?

A lot of people that call themselves conservative these days want all of us loyal to a person not a political belief system or a party.

And that's just not gonna fly.
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Offline skeeter

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Good read. And pretty accurate, IMHO. My loyalty goes to whomever will champion the issues I believe in. And 90% of the time this described x45.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2021, 03:38:31 pm by skeeter »

Offline goatprairie

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I'll be about as loyal to  Trump as he was to the people who helped him on his way up the ladder.  :whistle: Issues/ethics over cults of personality.

Offline roamer_1

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But loyalty to whom?   Or to what?

A lot of people that call themselves conservative these days want all of us loyal to a person not a political belief system or a party.

And that's just not gonna fly.

That's exactly right.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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I'll be about as loyal to  Trump as he was to the people who helped him on his way up the ladder.  :whistle:

Really?  How about you give us an example @goatprairie

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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FTA

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But that’s the point. The Never Trumpers were, and are, quite tedious and repetitive. Whatever principles guided them in the past were replaced by their obsession with the president. Their overwhelming pride (or insecurity?) caused them to turn against Brett Kavanaugh, Devin Nunes, and even the teenagers from Covington Catholic High School.

They cheered on McCain who, out of spite, voted against ending Obamacare, and Romney, who voted to impeach the man who had helped him win his Senate seat. As for their leftist colleagues, politics became personal for Never Trumpers and the few arguments they made were weak and largely emotional. To her credit, Kelly avoids the term “Trump Derangement Syndrome,” (TDS) but this phenomenon definitely comes to mind.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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But loyalty to whom?   Or to what?  A lot of people that call themselves conservative these days want all of us loyal to a person not a political belief system or a party.  And that's just not gonna fly.

How about loyalty to the guy who keeps his campaign promises?  Would this work for you, or is this too pedestrian for the conservative purity that flows through your veins @txradioguy

Offline LMAO

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I did not vote for Donald Trump in 2016. I did vote for Gary Johnson. I thought that Donald Trump would have us in a war before the end of his first term. I was wrong. 

I think the debt is a serious issue. On the debt and deficit  I give Donald Trump an F. It is a serious problem that will catch up with us one day. However, I did vote for Donald Trump in 2020. I do believe that Joe Biden is going to over regulate the economy and I was right when I predicted we will lose our energy independence despite his promise on the campaign trail that he would not ban any fracking.

 
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Offline roamer_1

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I did not vote for Donald Trump in 2016. I did vote for Gary Johnson. I thought that Donald Trump would have us in a war before the end of his first term. I was wrong. 

I think the debt is a serious issue. On the debt and deficit  I give Donald Trump an F. It is a serious problem that will catch up with us one day. However, I did vote for Donald Trump in 2020. I do believe that Joe Biden is going to over regulate the economy and I was right when I predicted we will lose our energy independence despite his promise on the campaign trail that he would not ban any fracking.

Sadly, a vote acts only as an endorsement, so... The end game s voting FOR debt and deficit.

Offline LMAO

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Re: Never Trumpers Illustrate Why Loyalty Is An Important Political Virtue
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2021, 09:12:13 pm »
Sadly, a vote acts only as an endorsement, so... The end game s voting FOR debt and deficit.

 And I don’t disagree with you.  I may agree with Trump on energy independence and the deregulation of the economy but disagreed with his debt and deficits but by voting for energy independence and fewer regulations I am also voting for more debt and deficits



I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them.

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Offline skeeter

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Re: Never Trumpers Illustrate Why Loyalty Is An Important Political Virtue
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2021, 09:17:10 pm »
And I don’t disagree with you.  I may agree with Trump on energy independence and the deregulation of the economy but disagreed with his debt and deficits but by voting for energy independence and fewer regulations...
... and more secure borders, and more equitable trade agreements, and fewer foreign military entanglements, and better wage growth, etc etc.

No reason to apologize.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Never Trumpers Illustrate Why Loyalty Is An Important Political Virtue
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2021, 09:23:12 pm »
And I don’t disagree with you.  I may agree with Trump on energy independence and the deregulation of the economy but disagreed with his debt and deficits but by voting for energy independence and fewer regulations I am also voting for more debt and deficits

I guess I am more critically aligned. First do no harm. And that level of spending and debt are certainly harm. Anything else you may get is incidental at that point... It is developing into a pattern with the Republicans. Mouth service to the Christians, heavy support to the military, and fiscal conservatism and libertarianism go under the bus, every time.

I am to the point of favoring fiscal matters and liberty above all else - Even though that is counter to the nature of Conservatism proper, simply because those two things are ALWAYS cast off.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Never Trumpers Illustrate Why Loyalty Is An Important Political Virtue
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2021, 10:17:04 pm »
Anti-Trumpers like to lump loyalists to Trump with loyalty to the Constitution, and it's starting to piss me off. It's possible to be loyal to the Constitution and not care for Donald Trump.
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Offline Sled Dog

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Re: Never Trumpers Illustrate Why Loyalty Is An Important Political Virtue
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2021, 10:21:15 pm »
But loyalty to whom?   Or to what?

A lot of people that call themselves conservative these days want all of us loyal to a person not a political belief system or a party.

And that's just not gonna fly.

Trump was the face of the GOP.

Trump is a conservative.

Trump was the last best hope to recover America from the clutches of the Rodents.

The NT RINO's betrayed Trump, because Trump stood for conservative patriotic anti-Rodent America.

This isn't rocket scientists.  We know who the RINOs are and what they've done.   They are hated by the Rodents, because the Rodents hate everyone, even themselves.  They are hated by the Americans, because the RINOs are traitors.

Only other traitors don't hate the RINOs.
The GOP is not the party leadership.  The GOP is the party MEMBERSHIP.   The members need to kick the leaders out if they leaders are going the wrong way.  No coddling allowed.

Offline Sled Dog

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Re: Never Trumpers Illustrate Why Loyalty Is An Important Political Virtue
« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2021, 10:22:38 pm »
Anti-Trumpers like to lump loyalists to Trump with loyalty to the Constitution, and it's starting to piss me off. It's possible to be loyal to the Constitution and not care for Donald Trump.

Not really.

Trump was one of the most Constitutionalist presidents we've had since Coolidge.   

What wasn't to like about Donald Trump?   His open-handed tweets that didn't spare our enemies' feelz?   Boo hoo and all that.
The GOP is not the party leadership.  The GOP is the party MEMBERSHIP.   The members need to kick the leaders out if they leaders are going the wrong way.  No coddling allowed.

Offline DefiantMassRINO

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Re: Never Trumpers Illustrate Why Loyalty Is An Important Political Virtue
« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2021, 10:22:56 pm »
Many of the "Never-Trumpers" are Big Government, Globalist, American apologist, nation building, Illegal Resident coddling, Global Warming sellout, fiscally irresponsible, flip-flopping wind socks.

Mitt Romney is a prime example.  John McCain was another - he was against illegal immigration when running for Senator, and for it when he was running for President.

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Offline Sled Dog

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Re: Never Trumpers Illustrate Why Loyalty Is An Important Political Virtue
« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2021, 10:31:01 pm »
What these absurd Debt Weenies refuse to admit is that the President does not control the budget.

They clearly can't read the Constitution.

Maybe they can't figure out how many seat it takes in the House to change a anti-free-market closed-spiral tiny florescent photon emitter?

Maybe they can't figure out what it means when their own sort of people are in control of the House and Senate during the Final President's first half-term, people like Paul RINO and McConnell, or when the Rodents steal the House in 2018 and have that senile botox broad tearing up the Final President's State of the Union Speech on world TV.

The Final President could only sign the budgets those people sent to him.  He has no power to cut out the parts he doesn't like.  And the Final President, and America, needed things in those bills that had to be done.   Repairing the Rodent-reduced military, building the Border Wall, cutting taxes.   

So the same NT a-holes now blame the Final President for a budget crisis that has been in the making since Tip A Few O'Neill reneged on his agreement with Ronald Reagan to cut two dollars in spending for ever dollar in taxes cut.

The NT a-holes never seem to remember that or understand how the political process works in actual practice.    Like the Rodents, they want to blame every flaw on the President...when it's the Final President, and forgive every sabotage their own people have enacted against the Final President and the American people, of whom they are not.
The GOP is not the party leadership.  The GOP is the party MEMBERSHIP.   The members need to kick the leaders out if they leaders are going the wrong way.  No coddling allowed.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Never Trumpers Illustrate Why Loyalty Is An Important Political Virtue
« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2021, 10:34:17 pm »
Anti-Trumpers like to lump loyalists to Trump with loyalty to the Constitution, and it's starting to piss me off. It's possible to be loyal to the Constitution and not care for Donald Trump.

Hence my position.  :shrug:  :laugh:

Equally the other way, man. It's too easy for y'all to ball up Never-Tumpers into RINOs, which is not true. I am far to the right, and have never supported RINOs. For me Tumpy is nothing near Conservative. And there are plenty on the far right that are where I am.

Offline jmyrlefuller

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Re: Never Trumpers Illustrate Why Loyalty Is An Important Political Virtue
« Reply #19 on: March 16, 2021, 10:34:30 pm »
Not really.

Trump was one of the most Constitutionalist presidents we've had since Coolidge.   

What wasn't to like about Donald Trump?   His open-handed tweets that didn't spare our enemies' feelz?   Boo hoo and all that.
Remind me of how much he reduced the national debt. Oh, wait. He jacked it up just like his predecessors and successors.

Remind me of how he transformed the court. Oh, the same Brett Kavanaugh we warned not to put on the court stabbed him in the back and allowed a stolen election to stand and one-party Democratic rule to run.

Speaking of loyalty, let's talk to all the donations Trump made to Andrew Cuomo's pay-to-play scheme and Hillary Clinton to peddle influence at all those cocktail parties. Let's talk his hiring of Anthony Fauci, Cuomo's buddy, to lead the virus response into mass lockdowns that didn't work and still haven't been lifted.

Remind me of that big, beautiful wall that Mexico was supposed to pay for. Oh, wait. THERE'S STILL NO WALL.

He accomplished one thing as President that was actually successful, and that was simply Republican boilerplate tax cuts and the end of the Obamacare mandate. Those probably weren't even his idea.

As for his now-banned tweets, it wasn't just "our enemies," it was just about anyone who dared criticize him for anything, including lots of conservatives who actually accomplished stuff and took action, including Scott Walker and Ted Cruz. Remember the ever-popular Lyin' Ted smear that Trump repeated over and over again? Trump is the most disloyal person in politics. Don't lecture me about loyalty. He has none but to himself.
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Offline Sled Dog

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Re: Never Trumpers Illustrate Why Loyalty Is An Important Political Virtue
« Reply #20 on: March 16, 2021, 10:36:31 pm »
Many of the "Never-Trumpers" are Big Government, Globalist, American apologist, nation building, Illegal Resident coddling, Global Warming sellout, fiscally irresponsible, flip-flopping wind socks.

Mitt Romney is a prime example.  John McCain was another - he was against illegal immigration when running for Senator, and for it when he was running for President.

I want an America that is competitive, prosperous, proud, admired, strong, and feared.

Respected, not feared. 

Fear is a Rodent goal.

We regained respect under Reagan, after a decade of Rodents and incompetents.

The respect Reagan recovered for the US was quickly dissipated by the clown babbling about lips, the guy that patented new humidor concepts, the fool that called Islame a religion of "peace" not "pieces", and that marxist queerio born in Kenya who ran around apologizing and handing terrorist states cargo plane-loads of unmarked bills.

We were regaining respect under the Final President, even after the NT a-holes paved his way with spike-strips and curbstones.    But the Final President won his second term but he and the Americans were robbed, as expected, by the thieving Rodents and the NT a-holes are all pretending that election was honest.

The GOP is not the party leadership.  The GOP is the party MEMBERSHIP.   The members need to kick the leaders out if they leaders are going the wrong way.  No coddling allowed.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Never Trumpers Illustrate Why Loyalty Is An Important Political Virtue
« Reply #21 on: March 16, 2021, 10:40:04 pm »
Trump is a conservative.

No, he is not.

Quote
Trump was the last best hope to recover America from the clutches of the Rodents.

Then we were already lost to start with, if he's satisfactory, and the best you can do.

Quote
The NT RINO's betrayed Trump, because Trump stood for conservative patriotic anti-Rodent America.

There's no 'I' in team. If he was so readily betrayed, what does that say about his leadership, or alternatively, his ignorance?

Quote

This isn't rocket scientists.  We know who the RINOs are and what they've done.   They are hated by the Rodents, because the Rodents hate everyone, even themselves.  They are hated by the Americans, because the RINOs are traitors.

Only other traitors don't hate the RINOs.

Yeah, but you watch and see... By and large y'all will reelect them. It's been going on for decades. Y'all have to come to grips with the bare fact that y'all put them RINOs in there. Y'all stand under that 'big tent'.

Me, I say burn that damn tent down... And throw ALL the bastards out.

Offline Sled Dog

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Re: Never Trumpers Illustrate Why Loyalty Is An Important Political Virtue
« Reply #22 on: March 16, 2021, 10:49:01 pm »
Remind me of how much he reduced the national debt. Oh, wait. He jacked it up just like his predecessors and successors.

Oh!  Wait!

You could have read the whole post to see how that worked out.  Or maybe you could have tried paying attention during the robbery.  It was only four years ago.

Quote
Remind me of how he transformed the court. Oh, the same Brett Kavanaugh we warned not to put on the court stabbed him in the back and allowed a stolen election to stand and one-party Democratic rule to run.

Who would Mittens have installed?   Garland, of course.

Who would McStain have installed?  Hillary, of course.

Who would Jeb! have installed?  His brother?

I don't recall seeing you or anyone else posting against Gorsuch, Kavanaugh or Barrett at the time they were confirmed.   The best Justice to be appointed in the last 30 years was Thomas, and that was by the very unlikely RINO president I-Lied-About-Taxes.

Trump did his best with what he had.   What he did manage to do was seriously shift the Ninth Circus towards a more American outlook and similar miracles on the other courts that will last for decades.

We all know Roberts is either a weasel or the Rodents have serious blackmail leverage on the boy.  He should have resigned while Trump was in a position to put an American in his place.

And, no, I'm not forgiving those others for failing to do their job during The Steal.

Quote
Speaking of loyalty, let's talk to all the donations Trump made to Andrew Cuomo's pay-to-play scheme and Hillary Clinton to peddle influence at all those cocktail parties. Let's talk his hiring of Anthony Fauci, Cuomo's buddy, to lead the virus response into mass lockdowns that didn't work and still haven't been lifted.

Should we bother?   

Last time I checked, Trump isn't a career politician and here you are blaming him for not being a career politician.  Trump's mistakes were minor.   

Maybe...just maybe...you should cancel your subscriptions to the NY Times and CNN?

Quote
Remind me of that big, beautiful wall that Mexico was supposed to pay for. Oh, wait. THERE'S STILL NO WALL.

So you have no clue how the President of the United States gets money to fund projects.

You'll notice, or at least everyone else will, there's no question mark on the above sentence.  Just a period.

Quote
He accomplished one thing as President that was actually successful, and that was simply Republican boilerplate tax cuts and the end of the Obamacare mandate. Those probably weren't even his idea.

Yeah, it's not like the Final President campaigned on the goal of repealing MessiahCare and came within one Traitor's Vote of doing exactly that.   Remember McStain?   The Traitor living the good life in the Hanoi Hilton?

Quote
As for his now-banned tweets, it wasn't just "our enemies," it was just about anyone who dared criticize him for anything, including lots of conservatives who actually accomplished stuff and took action, including Scott Walker and Ted Cruz. Remember the ever-popular Lyin' Ted smear that Trump repeated over and over again? Trump is the most disloyal person in politics. Don't lecture me about loyalty. He has none but to himself.

Disloyal to who?

Not to me.

Not to 75 million other Americans.

When Trump coined the term "Lyin' Ted", Ted Cruz was telling lies.  And Scott Walker....did he manage to rescue Wisconsin, or is it still, as always, a Rodent dung-heap with corrupt politics and stolen elections?

Twitter had no business removing those tweets.   They are part of the public record.

Time now to hear some NT America-hating blather about how we need to follow our free-market principles to the grave...
The GOP is not the party leadership.  The GOP is the party MEMBERSHIP.   The members need to kick the leaders out if they leaders are going the wrong way.  No coddling allowed.

Offline Sled Dog

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Re: Never Trumpers Illustrate Why Loyalty Is An Important Political Virtue
« Reply #23 on: March 16, 2021, 10:58:36 pm »
No, he is not.

Yes, he is.

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Then we were already lost to start with, if he's satisfactory, and the best you can do.

That's possible.   But not "we", the Americans.   People like the NT a-holes can't be counted as losers when they never got in the game to play in the first place.   Those people signed up to be parasitic fish snatching what scraps they can from the Rodents they're riding on, even as they pretend to be with the eagles.  They're not respected by anyone, never have been and will never be.

The only adulation those people get is from each other.

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There's no 'I' in team. If he was so readily betrayed, what does that say about his leadership, or alternatively, his ignorance?

It says everything about HIS leadership.

He was not willing to compromise the pledges he made to his VOTERS to make his enemies, the Rodents and RINOs, happy.

He is not a Bush.   Give them man a hundred points for each Bush he wasn't.

He is not a McStain or a Romeny.  Give the man a million points for each of those.

So he starts out on the positive side with 2,000,300 points in leadership.

It wasn't his job to compromise with the Republicans on HIS team.  Because it was HIS team.   He won the elections of 2016 and 2020.  It was the Republicans job to get on HIS program and push that agenda upstream.

It was THEIR job to FOLLOW.   Their TREASONS do not cast shade on his leadership, their yipping and yapping and the petulant braying of their foolish supporters merely show what tiny people THEY are.

Trump is a great American.  One of the greatest.

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Yeah, but you watch and see... By and large y'all will reelect them. It's been going on for decades. Y'all have to come to grips with the bare fact that y'all put them RINOs in there. Y'all stand under that 'big tent'.

You are the one defending the Rodents and the RINOs.

The Americans are not.

Quote
Me, I say burn that damn tent down... And throw ALL the bastards out.

Politics is not a game you understand or play well.
The GOP is not the party leadership.  The GOP is the party MEMBERSHIP.   The members need to kick the leaders out if they leaders are going the wrong way.  No coddling allowed.

Offline Sled Dog

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Re: Never Trumpers Illustrate Why Loyalty Is An Important Political Virtue
« Reply #24 on: March 16, 2021, 11:08:19 pm »
Then again, maybe the NT's need to figure out why their boy Jeb! didn't succeed in getting the nomination without voters, as he promised.

Because the Americans were fed up with the Bush Clan, the Romeny Squishes and the McStain TRAITORS and chose instead the one candidate on the debate stages that reflected THEIR values and THEIR commitment to the United States.

The Americans, for the first time since 1984, selected the AMERICAN candidate they needed.

They didn't select a Squish, they didn't select a shrubbery, they didn't select a traitor, a rapist, a drunkard, a muslim or a senile old fool.    They didn't select anyone a Never Trumping traitor could ever approve of.

And in the process, their candidates successful run for his second term garnered more votes than any president ever in American history.

And we are still here.    And the NT jerks are never going to be happy ever again.  And hopefully over the next few years, they won't be in public office any more, either.

That Cheney broad isn't the only one going to be tossed out on it's well padded behind in 2022.
The GOP is not the party leadership.  The GOP is the party MEMBERSHIP.   The members need to kick the leaders out if they leaders are going the wrong way.  No coddling allowed.