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Author Topic: GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers  (Read 27205 times)

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Offline Hoodat

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Re: GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers
« Reply #50 on: March 08, 2021, 02:34:03 am »
Quote from: roamer_1 on March 08, 2021, 02:14:43 am

The common sense thing to do is to quit supporting Republicans merely for shiny baubles. or even more, as an hedge against Democrats. They ARE NO HEDGE against Democrats. They have not won a single damn thing in 35 years. Your argument is as asinine as always because Democrats are winning ANYWAY. Your fetid, feckless party is no stop-gap at all.

There have been a few minor victories scattered here and there, but overall this argument is correct.  2017-18 is a prime example.  Republicans controlled the White House and both Houses of Congress.  Yet the national debt increased by $2 trillion.  And Planned Parenthood received over $1 billion in taxpayer funding - a record amount for any two-year period.
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If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline Hoodat

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Re: GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers
« Reply #51 on: March 08, 2021, 02:36:31 am »
Quote from: BassWrangler on March 08, 2021, 01:48:08 am
Exit polls showed the GOP turnout was down. That was 100% Trump and Trump acolytes telling people there was no point because of cheating.


That didn't happen.  It was Democrat groups that were running fake ads saying that.
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If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline roamer_1

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Re: GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers
« Reply #52 on: March 08, 2021, 02:37:56 am »
Quote from: Hoodat on March 08, 2021, 02:34:03 am
There have been a few minor victories scattered here and there, but overall this argument is correct.  2017-18 is a prime example.  Republicans controlled the White House and both Houses of Congress.  Yet the national debt increased by $2 trillion.  And Planned Parenthood received over $1 billion in taxpayer funding - a record amount for any two-year period.

Exactly right, and it is nothing new... And still they keep voting em in there. Get them so fearful of Democrats they'll vote for anything, and the pubbies do very much the same as the democrats and receive no consequence whatsoever.

There's your problem right there. There HAS TO BE A CONSEQUENCE.
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers
« Reply #53 on: March 08, 2021, 02:42:12 am »
Quote from: roamer_1 on March 08, 2021, 02:37:56 am
Exactly right, and it is nothing new... And still they keep voting em in there. Get them so fearful of Democrats they'll vote for anything

We're at war with Eastasia.  We've always been at war with Eastasia.
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If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline bilo

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Re: GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers
« Reply #54 on: March 08, 2021, 02:44:01 am »
Quote from: BassWrangler on March 08, 2021, 02:21:58 am
I would agree with you that now is a good time to focus on primary-ing RINOs. But I'd like to see that take the form of finding and supporting good alternative candidates instead of driving RINOs even farther towards the Dems by threatening them. Talk softly and carry a big stick versus shoot your mouth off and write checks your butt can't cash.

Nonsense

After Reagan won the cold war what has that approach accomplished?

Trump came into office with an agenda of restoring America and never stopped. So what if he called people out for being jerks and hypocrites, he never wavered!

It's time to change tactics. If Trump isn't going to start a 3rd party and instead is going to change the Pub party it's up to us to support the America First candidates in the primaries and if they aren't the nominee in the general election sit it out.
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Online libertybele

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Re: GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers
« Reply #55 on: March 08, 2021, 02:50:30 am »
Quote from: Hoodat on March 08, 2021, 02:34:03 am
There have been a few minor victories scattered here and there, but overall this argument is correct.  2017-18 is a prime example.  Republicans controlled the White House and both Houses of Congress.  Yet the national debt increased by $2 trillion.  And Planned Parenthood received over $1 billion in taxpayer funding - a record amount for any two-year period.

Putting the debt aside the GOP didn't accomplish a dang thing with a full majority.  The GOP couldn't stand together due to failed leadership. RINO leadership!!! Leadership that made excuses, played the blame game and sided with the Dems and people continued to vote for them.  The GOP continues to have RINO leadership and is riddled with RINOs, that's why the party is dead.

@roamer_1 is correct, they offer no true opposition to liberals.
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Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

BassWrangler

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Re: GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers
« Reply #56 on: March 08, 2021, 02:52:17 am »
Quote from: Right_in_Virginia on March 08, 2021, 02:26:59 am
The President never told GA voters not to vote, directly or indirectly.  The President went to Georgia, twice, encouraging Georgians to vote for the two candidates.  He tore into the Democrat candidates, even using the TrumpTron, and described the power the democrats would have if they controlled the Senate.  He was quite passionate.

At the same time, the PEOPLE of Georgia were begging Republicans in Congress to investigate and expose the fraud and prove the President's rightful victory.  The PEOPLE of Georgia were begging their state legislature to do the same ... AND to fix the avenues for fraud before the January election so their votes would matter and victory would be possible. 

These jackasses did neither.  The State Legislature in Georgia and Republicans in Congress laughed in their faces and lost the state by allowing the fraud from November to continue in January.  But I'd be remiss not to give an honorary hat tip to Mitch McConnell for telling Georgians not only were their votes not important enough to safeguard  --- they also weren't worth $2,000 -- as the President had insisted they were.

Facts @BassWrangler .  They're stubborn and don't change even under the weight of Trump hate.

You won't get any argument from me about the cowardly response to voter fraud. But I distinctly remember Trump making some disparaging comments about Georgia and the Senate run-off in light of fraud. You are right that he did later do two rallies. We'll never know for sure what would have happened if he had given a consistent message about the importance of GOP turnout in the runoff, instead of focusing just on the fraud, or if he had divorced himself from that loon, Lynnwood, forcefully and early. Ultimately, we're not going to agree on this issue.
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers
« Reply #57 on: March 08, 2021, 02:54:13 am »
Quote from: Hoodat on March 08, 2021, 02:42:12 am
We're at war with Eastasia.  We've always been at war with Eastasia.

. And ethereal deep-state boogeymen!  :terror:
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BassWrangler

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Re: GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers
« Reply #58 on: March 08, 2021, 02:55:20 am »
Quote from: roamer_1 on March 08, 2021, 02:30:08 am
I am done waiting on Republicans. I was neck deep in TEA, but as usual, Republicans put that fire put.

Time for the rubber to hit the road. Put the hell up or shut the hell up. Show me the damn money.
Done with feckless promises. Done with half-assed movements selling hyphenated conservatism. Done with all of it. If y'all want to actually win, you're gonna have to stand for something. When I see Conservatism - ACTUAL Conservatism rising with fire in its eye, THEN I will hear y'all and come a running. Expecting folks to follow after this lukewarm low-dollar crap... Well it sure as hell don't attract me. and it never will.



Not you of course, @BassWrangler ... I agree with you more than I don't.

Yeah, it is frustrating. It's been The death of a thousand cuts up until now.
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Online libertybele

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Re: GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers
« Reply #59 on: March 08, 2021, 03:00:57 am »
Quote from: bilo on March 08, 2021, 02:44:01 am
Nonsense

After Reagan won the cold war what has that approach accomplished?

Trump came into office with an agenda of restoring America and never stopped. So what if he called people out for being jerks and hypocrites, he never wavered!

It's time to change tactics. If Trump isn't going to start a 3rd party and instead is going to change the Pub party it's up to us to support the America First candidates in the primaries and if they aren't the nominee in the general election sit it out.

Unless bills are passed and systems are put in place for a fair election., good luck with that.

Changing the Republican party on a crumbled foundation is futile especially with a DEM majority making rules as they seem fit to fulfill their agenda.

The GOP winning seats is not going to happen. 
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Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline Hoodat

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Re: GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers
« Reply #60 on: March 08, 2021, 03:03:31 am »
Quote from: libertybele on March 08, 2021, 03:00:57 am
The GOP winning seats is not going to happen.

And the GOP is perfectly OK with that.
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If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline sneakypete

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Re: GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers
« Reply #61 on: March 08, 2021, 03:09:22 am »
Quote from: BassWrangler on March 08, 2021, 02:11:40 am
Come on, now. I'm as reliable of a conservative as you'll ever meet, and while I wasn't a fan of Trump in the primary, I supported him once he won. But now that he's left office, I think we need to move on as we normally do when a President loses after one term.

But I understand and appreciate that many of you have a deep love for the man, so in the interest of fighting the enemy and not each other, I'll drop it.

@BassWrangler

You don't understand anything. I wouldn't let him in my house if he came and knocked on the door.

Having said that,I don't vote for political candidates because I want to be their "bestie". I vote for who I think will best serve the country,NOT who might want to be my buddy.

Trump's ego is a HUGE turn-off for me personally,but in THIS particular case,it makes him the perfect candidate for President. His ego is tied to how he goes down in the history books as either a good president or a bum,and nothing is more important to him that how he will be seen by historians in the years to come.

He can't be bribed,and he can't even be threatened into betraying his oath because NOTHING is as important to him as the history books write-ups

Ok,if he saves America from the Dims and their Chinese masters,I'd probably let him use my phone.

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Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

BassWrangler

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Re: GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers
« Reply #62 on: March 08, 2021, 03:12:07 am »
Quote from: sneakypete on March 08, 2021, 03:09:22 am
@BassWrangler

You don't understand anything. I wouldn't let him in my house if he came and knocked on the door.

Having said that,I don't vote for political candidates because I want to be their "bestie". I vote for who I think will best serve the country,NOT who might want to be my buddy.

Trump's ego is a HUGE turn-off for me personally,but in THIS particular case,it makes him the perfect candidate for President. His ego is tied to how he goes down in the history books as either a good president or a bum,and nothing is more important to him that how he will be seen by historians in the years to come.

He can't be bribed,and he can't even be threatened into betraying his oath because NOTHING is as important to him as the history books write-ups

Ok,if he saves America from the Dims and their Chinese masters,I'd probably let him use my phone.

I'd agree with you if he had any lasting accomplishments. he got some judges appointed, but that's about it.
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Offline bilo

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Re: GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers
« Reply #63 on: March 08, 2021, 03:23:28 am »
Quote from: libertybele on March 08, 2021, 03:00:57 am
Unless bills are passed and systems are put in place for a fair election., good luck with that.

Changing the Republican party on a crumbled foundation is futile especially with a DEM majority making rules as they seem fit to fulfill their agenda.

The GOP winning seats is not going to happen.

We aren't going to get a 3rd party, so it's all we have left. If the election process remains as corrupt as it was in 2020 then the only option left after elections fail is secession. I think in the end that's where we will end up, but not enough people have seen it yet.

You see the tendency in that direction with FL., TX., and others ending mask mandates, starting to put laws in place that penalize media that censors candidates, TX., starting to take steps to protect their border, and 5 counties in the state of Oregon looking to vote on becoming a part of Idaho.
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Offline bilo

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Re: GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers
« Reply #64 on: March 08, 2021, 03:25:17 am »
Quote from: sneakypete on March 08, 2021, 03:09:22 am
@BassWrangler

You don't understand anything. I wouldn't let him in my house if he came and knocked on the door.

Having said that,I don't vote for political candidates because I want to be their "bestie". I vote for who I think will best serve the country,NOT who might want to be my buddy.

Trump's ego is a HUGE turn-off for me personally,but in THIS particular case,it makes him the perfect candidate for President. His ego is tied to how he goes down in the history books as either a good president or a bum,and nothing is more important to him that how he will be seen by historians in the years to come.

He can't be bribed,and he can't even be threatened into betraying his oath because NOTHING is as important to him as the history books write-ups

Ok,if he saves America from the Dims and their Chinese masters,I'd probably let him use my phone.

Great analysis!
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers
« Reply #65 on: March 08, 2021, 03:27:00 am »
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Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers
« Reply #66 on: March 08, 2021, 08:03:27 am »
Quote from: roamer_1 on March 08, 2021, 02:30:08 am
I am done waiting on Republicans. I was neck deep in TEA, but as usual, Republicans put that fire put.

Time for the rubber to hit the road. Put the hell up or shut the hell up. Show me the damn money.
Done with feckless promises. Done with half-assed movements selling hyphenated conservatism. Done with all of it. If y'all want to actually win, you're gonna have to stand for something. When I see Conservatism - ACTUAL Conservatism rising with fire in its eye, THEN I will hear y'all and come a running. Expecting folks to follow after this lukewarm low-dollar crap... Well it sure as hell don't attract me. and it never will.



Not you of course, @BassWrangler ... I agree with you more than I don't.
Yep, on all counts.  888high58888
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Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

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Offline roamer_1

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Re: GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers
« Reply #67 on: March 08, 2021, 08:08:12 am »
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Offline mikezpen

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Re: GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers
« Reply #68 on: March 08, 2021, 03:46:55 pm »
Donald Trump shouldn't be the message. His message should be the message.That's what's important.
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BassWrangler

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Re: GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers
« Reply #69 on: March 08, 2021, 03:58:43 pm »
Quote from: mikezpe n on March 08, 2021, 03:46:55 pm
Donald Trump shouldn't be the message. His message should be the message.That's what's important.

100% agree, but with Trump it's always about him. I love the message, but would like to see a fresh face carrying it forward. From someone who doesn't step on his Johnson on a daily basis.
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Offline Mesaclone

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Re: GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers
« Reply #70 on: March 08, 2021, 06:51:36 pm »
Quote from: mikezpen on March 08, 2021, 03:46:55 pm
Donald Trump shouldn't be the message. His message should be the message.That's what's important.

The two are inseparablein these next two election cycles...22 and 24. Certainly,  in 26/28 that will change, but Donald Trump is the MAGA message until after the 2024 election. The establishment/RINO class wants to separate him from that so they can claim his message...realizing they totally missed the boat and misread conservative sentiment in 2016 and 2020. But there is no greater mission for the GOP then to purge that establishment RINO class through the primary process...and then to move forward in a united manner to win back the House/Senate...and then the White House in 2024. But the candidates will either be Trump himself, or Trump supported MAGA candidates...the establishment does not get to "steal/co-opt" MAGA for themselves as many here seem to be advocating.

Trump IS the message to a great extent...because the message is "no more RINO/NT's". The party has to be conservative and it has to NOT be run by the establishment...once we achieve those two goals we can spank the Dems in any election.
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Online libertybele

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Re: GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers
« Reply #71 on: March 08, 2021, 07:21:47 pm »
Trump was the messenger for 75+ million.  Tired of RINOS, tired of do nothing GOP, tired of broken promises and close the dang border!!! No amnesty. Don't mess with the 2A!
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Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline Hoodat

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Re: GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers
« Reply #72 on: March 08, 2021, 07:36:16 pm »
Substance over style.
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If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers
« Reply #73 on: March 08, 2021, 07:55:08 pm »
Quote from: BassWrangler on March 08, 2021, 03:12:07 am
I'd agree with you if he had any lasting accomplishments. he got some judges appointed, but that's about it.

Yes, there are the judges, and off the top of my head: and the tax cuts, and the strong fundamentals of the economy still working for Biden's favor, and Operation Warp Speed turning out three COVID-19 vaccines in a miraculously short time, and European nations paying their fair share for NATO, and the Abraham Accords, and the Serbia-Kosovo Economic Agreement, and the rebuilt military, and the Space Force and this...



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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers
« Reply #74 on: March 08, 2021, 08:01:44 pm »
Quote from: BassWrangler on March 08, 2021, 02:55:20 am
Yeah, it is frustrating. It's been The death of a thousand cuts up until now.

Stealing my lines now?   88devil
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