Author Topic: Natural Gas Market Chaos Continues as Texas Governor Bans Producers From Selling Outside State  (Read 3364 times)

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Offline Fishrrman

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thackney complained:
"I am done arguing on this topic with the people that want to take the private property because others planned so poorly."

and sled dog piled on with:
"And now Abbott wants to steal someone else's property in a grand-stand move"

I seriously doubt anyone's property (in this case, that of the gas producers) is being "stolen".
Will the producers not be compensated at market rates?

The issue is not "stolen property", and I'm appalled that people I might have otherwise respect as being "smarter than me" do not recognize this.

Rather, it is a matter of serious statewide emergency (in that people are at risk of freezing/dying), which could be alleviated through the temporary diversion of natural resources (the gas) -- and whether such diversions should be undetaken or not.

I believe that in this case, the dire situation of Texas' residents DO take precedence over fulfilling pending contracts. This doesn't mean the contracts are voided. It DOES mean that they will be fulfilled a little later.

After reading the arguments proffered by some folks here, is it any wonder why "conservatism" per se seems to be falling out of favor with the American public...?

Offline RetBobbyMI

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Hello?

The gas company is selling their property across state lines.  That makes it interstate.

The government attempting to usurper those property rights violates interstate commerce already in progress.   

The gas companies have contracts to deliver, ya dig?
Oh, so states by virtue of taxing goods ordered from out of the state are in contempt of interstate commerce?
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Offline thackney

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Oh, so states by virtue of taxing goods ordered from out of the state are in contempt of interstate commerce?

Sales Tax is applied at the point of sale/delivery, equal for goods produced in state or out.
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Offline Sled Dog

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I used to work under the Jimmy Carter regime in which he forced companies to declare gas reserves flowing into interstate markets to be forevermore dedicated to interstate markets, a truly evil 'taking' from individuals and companies.

As most price controls went, this distorted the market tremendously as the interstate gas could not be sold more than 59 cents per mcf, whereas intrastate gas markets commanded well over 2 dollars per mcf.

It was a terrible perversion that forced Texans to produce their gas and sell it to other states cheaply when Texans had to pay at the same time horrific gas prices to heat their own homes.

We older Texans recall these days and developed the adage "Let them freeze in the dark".

And we remember the mistreatment we had at the hands of the feds and will not forget it.

So no, I reject the premise that in times of trials like now, it is an over-reach to protect our own first and foremost rather than trying to make the biggest buck one can make.

If a company wishes to conduct business in Texas and to extract the resources within our state, it is a priority that Texans are accommodated before that company's shareholders.  For those that do not like those terms, seek out adventures in other states.

Actually, the legal obligation of the officers of that company are towards the interests of the shareholders.

Why didn't Texas plan for a little cold weather?

New York ALWAYS freezes.

New York NEVER suffers electric or gas shortages thereby, except for the occasional inconvenience of freezing rain and downed power lines.   

Sounds like the political hacks of Texas are seeking scapegoats for their own incompetence.

And, again, once the gas is out of the ground and in the pipes, the gas belongs to the customers.    Maybe the state of Texas can get into a bidding situation and BUY the gas they need....hmmmm?
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Offline Sled Dog

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Oh, so states by virtue of taxing goods ordered from out of the state are in contempt of interstate commerce?


You mean that nasty rule the Congress passed for the sake of over-taxed holes like California and Massachusetts where they can force sellers outside of those states to pay those confiscatory sales tax rates as if they were in those shit holes?

Sales tax should be charged where the product is sold, and if that's outside of CA, then the socialists of CA don't get a cut.

That works for gas, too, as far as I'm concerned.

Yeah, I would say that those states don't have the Constitutional authority to impose their sales taxes on other states, and that is most definitely in violation of Section I, Article 8.

The GOP is not the party leadership.  The GOP is the party MEMBERSHIP.   The members need to kick the leaders out if they leaders are going the wrong way.  No coddling allowed.

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Actually, the legal obligation of the officers of that company are towards the interests of the shareholders.

Why didn't Texas plan for a little cold weather?

New York ALWAYS freezes.

New York NEVER suffers electric or gas shortages thereby, except for the occasional inconvenience of freezing rain and downed power lines.   

Sounds like the political hacks of Texas are seeking scapegoats for their own incompetence.

And, again, once the gas is out of the ground and in the pipes, the gas belongs to the customers.    Maybe the state of Texas can get into a bidding situation and BUY the gas they need....hmmmm?
Negative.  Those officers have to comply with applicable laws before they can do the shareholders' bidding.  Or they will find themselves in jail.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2021, 03:04:04 pm by IsailedawayfromFR »
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Offline Sled Dog

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thackney complained:
"I am done arguing on this topic with the people that want to take the private property because others planned so poorly."

and sled dog piled on with:
"And now Abbott wants to steal someone else's property in a grand-stand move"

I seriously doubt anyone's property (in this case, that of the gas producers) is being "stolen".
Will the producers not be compensated at market rates?

The issue is not "stolen property", and I'm appalled that people I might have otherwise respect as being "smarter than me" do not recognize this.

Rather, it is a matter of serious statewide emergency (in that people are at risk of freezing/dying), which could be alleviated through the temporary diversion of natural resources (the gas) -- and whether such diversions should be undetaken or not.

I believe that in this case, the dire situation of Texas' residents DO take precedence over fulfilling pending contracts. This doesn't mean the contracts are voided. It DOES mean that they will be fulfilled a little later.

After reading the arguments proffered by some folks here, is it any wonder why "conservatism" per se seems to be falling out of favor with the American public...?

The gas was earmarked for customers elsewhere.

What happened to their rights?  They had a contract, didn't they?

"Conservatism" means the state having enough sense to PLAN for natural disasters, not reacting in a flurry of panic when it gets a little bit cold outside.   Texas never had a winter before?   This problem in Texas was caused by Gaia worshippers.  Don't blame the conservatives when they reject later socialist efforts to undue what the cultists did in the first place.

The bottom line:
Texas is supposed to be a big-boy, grown-up state.  So they need to pull their underoos back up and fix their problem without all the whining.  They caused what happened to them, they should be embarrassed and should shut up about it.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2021, 03:33:16 pm by Sled Dog »
The GOP is not the party leadership.  The GOP is the party MEMBERSHIP.   The members need to kick the leaders out if they leaders are going the wrong way.  No coddling allowed.

Offline roamer_1

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Why didn't Texas plan for a little cold weather?

New York ALWAYS freezes.

New York NEVER suffers electric or gas shortages thereby, except for the occasional inconvenience of freezing rain and downed power lines.   


Now hold on, that ain't right.

NY is made for cold. Texas is made for heat.
You want a fair comparison, take the hottest day in NY in 130 years and see how much trouble NY gets into. Or a mild to moderate hurricane... See how NY handles that. Predictably, poorly.

I get there's a whole lot of room and desire to point fingers. But off the get-go,  understand that this was a tad past extraordinary circumstances for Texas. Sh*t fell down just like it would from a class 4 or better hurricane... To a great degree, not planned for because expenses would outweigh the risk, even as planning and hardening against a class 4 hurricane is mostly absurd. Or planning around a 100 yr flood plain... with the expectation that there would be no losses at all.

C'mon. That ain't right. Not any more than expecting NY (or Montana) to handle 115 degrees flawlessly and with grace.

Some things just ain't nobody's fault. Some things just ARE. You see it coming and all you can do is say 'Oh, sh*t' and then it hits you upside the head with a 2x4.

Some day, the caldera at Yellowstone is gonna go off. And it will be epic. I ain't gonna take kindly to folks saying how Montana should have better prepared. How the hell do you prepare for that? Even though MT is in  a volcanic zone. Even though we have some experience in that regard... At some point the event outweighs ANY experience.

Not to say that after-action should not be considered. This was a major hit, and chances are steps can be taken to soften the blow next time. But there will be a next time. And it will suck. And folks will drop the ball.

So in my mind, the first point of after-action should be the regular citizen understanding the cold hard truth: All y'all have grown soft, relying on a system that is doomed to fail at some point, like all systems DO. Doesn't matter if it is Texas or New York. The system WILL fail, and !YOU! will be on your own. That is going to happen in  some degree to each and every one of us.

So instead of worrying about what the fat cats are doing... Wonder what !YOU! can do to protect !YOURSELF! ... Because the time is coming, surely. Folks that made it through the knothole would do well, best of all, to calculate where they themselves could have done better... What steps they can take to take the weight off the system in a time of trial, and not rely on it at all.



Online Smokin Joe

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Now hold on, that ain't right.

NY is made for cold. Texas is made for heat.
You want a fair comparison, take the hottest day in NY in 130 years and see how much trouble NY gets into. Or a mild to moderate hurricane... See how NY handles that. Predictably, poorly.

I get there's a whole lot of room and desire to point fingers. But off the get-go,  understand that this was a tad past extraordinary circumstances for Texas. Sh*t fell down just like it would from a class 4 or better hurricane... To a great degree, not planned for because expenses would outweigh the risk, even as planning and hardening against a class 4 hurricane is mostly absurd. Or planning around a 100 yr flood plain... with the expectation that there would be no losses at all.

C'mon. That ain't right. Not any more than expecting NY (or Montana) to handle 115 degrees flawlessly and with grace.

Some things just ain't nobody's fault. Some things just ARE. You see it coming and all you can do is say 'Oh, sh*t' and then it hits you upside the head with a 2x4.

Some day, the caldera at Yellowstone is gonna go off. And it will be epic. I ain't gonna take kindly to folks saying how Montana should have better prepared. How the hell do you prepare for that? Even though MT is in  a volcanic zone. Even though we have some experience in that regard... At some point the event outweighs ANY experience.

Not to say that after-action should not be considered. This was a major hit, and chances are steps can be taken to soften the blow next time. But there will be a next time. And it will suck. And folks will drop the ball.

So in my mind, the first point of after-action should be the regular citizen understanding the cold hard truth: All y'all have grown soft, relying on a system that is doomed to fail at some point, like all systems DO. Doesn't matter if it is Texas or New York. The system WILL fail, and !YOU! will be on your own. That is going to happen in  some degree to each and every one of us.

So instead of worrying about what the fat cats are doing... Wonder what !YOU! can do to protect !YOURSELF! ... Because the time is coming, surely. Folks that made it through the knothole would do well, best of all, to calculate where they themselves could have done better... What steps they can take to take the weight off the system in a time of trial, and not rely on it at all.
Well, let me put this this way.

Insulation works both ways.   It will keep heat in, as those of us up north know full well, but by the same token, it will keep heat out as well. (which is why those fancy expensive coolers keep ice for a couple of days when you really want a cold beverage. After that, it is a matter of making sure you have the gadgets to either make heat or remove it inside whatever climate you want controlled. Enough Texans have worked in North Dakota's oil patch to figure out how to keep their treaters from freezing up, even if they rarely face temperatures worse than a spring day here.

At some point a question of being cheap and maybe a dash of hubris come into play. Even here, when the weather hits -30 (static air), some things don't work. You won't know for certain they will until they do under those conditions, and the best laid plans of mice and men... Still, the effort is made, and generally successful because it IS made, even if it costs a bit more, because here, as we well know, failure is not an option, especially when you have to thaw the ground bury folks. The knowledge is there, there is historical precedent for such temperatures there, and it's folly to think it won't happen again, ever. But humans tend to forget quickly, move on, reestablish their normalcy bias, and not learn one thing from history, instead of being ready for next time.

As for when the caldera pops, well, some things we don't have much experience with, considering it's been a while since the last time. The last super volcano event (for certain) reduced the humans to a real genetic bottleneck (Toba), and if the Minoans were eliminated by such, may well have spawned the legends of Atlantis (there is always a grain of truth in legends). If that happens, well, aside from going north and east and being geared up for -40 weather in July, I'm not sure what will work, and even if that will--we might have enough ridges between here and there, and the low pressure system generated by the release of heat will likely suck arctic air to where we are. Most past ash falls have been mostly to the southwest of this area, although I expect wed get some--kinda like with Mt. St Helens, and ruin engines on the way out of here, because the clear cold air would be coming in out of Northern Canada before the major ash fall began. That's all theory we have no experience with, unlike winter at this latitude, which, as I said, a lot of Texans have had experience with.
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Offline HoustonSam

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Why didn't Texas plan for a little cold weather?

New York ALWAYS freezes.

New York NEVER suffers electric or gas shortages thereby, except for the occasional inconvenience of freezing rain and downed power lines.   

Sounds like the political hacks of Texas are seeking scapegoats for their own incompetence.

The infrastructure here is designed for the conditions that occur reliably year after year; those conditions are 100 degrees F week after week during the summer when north of 70 GW is needed to power air conditioning, not single digit and negative temperatures.  It isn't incompetence or political hackdom to design for, and maintain capital budgets for, conditions that occur frequently rather than conditions that occur infrequently.

Risk is understood as the product of an event's probability with its consequences; TX has bet on the former term being small and failed to recognize how large the latter term has become.  I suspect greater winterization will be required in regulations going forward, and I suspect most Texans will approve of some increase in their utility bills to accommodate those requirements.
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Offline roamer_1

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Well, let me put this this way.

Insulation works both ways.   It will keep heat in, as those of us up north know full well, but by the same token, it will keep heat out as well. (which is why those fancy expensive coolers keep ice for a couple of days when you really want a cold beverage.

Or there's the redneck way, where he takes his cooler and sinks it in spooge inside of a Rubbermaid tote, and gets the same dang thing, and he don't need your fancy-ass high-dollar cooler at all.

Or there's the hillbilly way, where he just takes what he needs made cold, puts it in quart jars, and puts the quarts in a cage, and sinks the whole mess in the well, not even needing the things the redneck does.

There's ways and ways. Some are better than others, till they're not.

Quote
After that, it is a matter of making sure you have the gadgets to either make heat or remove it inside whatever climate you want controlled. Enough Texans have worked in North Dakota's oil patch to figure out how to keep their treaters from freezing up, even if they rarely face temperatures worse than a spring day here.


Maye true - but what's missing is something you and me know natively... The system WILL fail, and it will fail at the worst possible time. You and me know that intimately, and we are both ready to make do. Now, I ain't been to your place, and I ain't never seen your face. But I make that claim knowing full well I am damn well right. I KNOW you have alt heat. I KNOW you have alt light. You very likely have alt electric too, though that is less important... And you may even have your freezer sitting out on the porch. I KNOW that because of where you are, and that you are alive to push the buttons on your keyboard.

We in the (rural) north do not have the convenience of reliance on the system... ANY system. We have to make do for ourselves. It is a necessity here. Them Texans that have drifted north - And I too know that happens... I have punched cows with Texans - Them Texans likely have learned to live in the north and know how... But they drift on south again and find it ain't a worry... So even with the knowledge, they don't assemble the possibles needed, which is the same dang thing as being without the knowledge altogether.

That's the thing, right there. I don't think it's an hubris. There ain't a NEED down there, but merely a caution... So they get caught with their pants down. Hopefully the after-action realization will prepare them for the next go around. And foremost in that is the realization of reality: The system WILL fail, and it WILL FAIL at the worst imaginable time. Texas has to learn to make do again.

And I say that a bit too flippantly - I know that many WERE ready and DID make do - Likely all of em out on the farm and out of the city, or shop-dawgs and blue collar in the city... I would like an after-action thread where Texans note what worked and what didn't, and how they can better withstand alone - That thread would be interesting.

And mobedda that than whining about fat cats and how they let everyone down (which should just be presumed in the first place). There is an education to be had, and you will find that after-action story-telling all the time up in here... Which helps folks get a plan, and implement changes.

Quote
At some point a question of being cheap and maybe a dash of hubris come into play. Even here, when the weather hits -30 (static air), some things don't work. You won't know for certain they will until they do under those conditions, and the best laid plans of mice and men... Still, the effort is made, and generally successful because it IS made, even if it costs a bit more, because here, as we well know, failure is not an option, especially when you have to thaw the ground bury folks. The knowledge is there, there is historical precedent for such temperatures there, and it's folly to think it won't happen again, ever. But humans tend to forget quickly, move on, reestablish their normalcy bias, and not learn one thing from history, instead of being ready for next time.


That's all right. I had a bit of that when I lost power up in here for what was supposed to be four days. A vicious wind came through annd turned the woods into pixie sticks and blew down a whole lot of what was above ground (medium-duty transmission and lesser)... My own systems didn't fail - I largely didn't use them anymore than I usually do... But I found a gaping flaw in my intermediate preparedness... Too much work to haul out everything, so I figured to power through the night and worry about it tomorrow in the daylight... Power came back on during the night, and I was alright all the way along, because I had the possibles. But the comfort was less than I would expect.

So I am going to work on intermediate systems (heavy investment into rechargeables, UPS and power stations,  and LED lighting, as an instance), and make it far easier to engage fail-over systems... Because living through a night with no internet, cell set to full-sip, reading L'amour by headlamp was not fun enough.

So yeah, even experienced folks have room for improvement, always. I ain't throwing stones. I am leaning into solar, and batteries as a part of that intermediacy too, so I don't need the jeny as fast. Maybe four hours or so... and that augments when I DO need the jenny, because I can charge up the batts and shut it off again. A MASSIVE non-critical hole was found... and I do aim to patch it up.

Quote
As for when the caldera pops, well, some things we don't have much experience with, considering it's been a while since the last time. The last super volcano event (for certain) reduced the humans to a real genetic bottleneck (Toba), and if the Minoans were eliminated by such, may well have spawned the legends of Atlantis (there is always a grain of truth in legends). If that happens, well, aside from going north and east and being geared up for -40 weather in July, I'm not sure what will work, and even if that will--we might have enough ridges between here and there, and the low pressure system generated by the release of heat will likely suck arctic air to where we are. Most past ash falls have been mostly to the southwest of this area, although I expect wed get some--kinda like with Mt. St Helens, and ruin engines on the way out of here, because the clear cold air would be coming in out of Northern Canada before the major ash fall began. That's all theory we have no experience with, unlike winter at this latitude, which, as I said, a lot of Texans have had experience with.

I used a volcano ad-absurdum... I was grasping for something a feller would not be ready for up in here. And to describe the idea that some things are just bigger than you can plan for. SHTF down there in Texas, bigger and badder than anyone figured on, and when the system got put to the test, it fell down. That ain't no surprise in an extraordinary circumstance... And that was what I was getting at - Shifting focus from being upset that the system failed, to a necessary awareness of a need for self-reliance. That was my point.

Offline RetBobbyMI

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Sales Tax is applied at the point of sale/delivery, equal for goods produced in state or out.
Point of sale (POS) and point of delivery (POD) are two different things in the logistics world. Sales taxes are applied at the point of sale, not the delivery. thus it is Interstate commerce if bought out of state and delivered into another.
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"A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand.� ? Bertrand Russell, A History of Western Philosophy

Offline thackney

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Actually, the legal obligation of the officers of that company are towards the interests of the shareholders.

Why didn't Texas plan for a little cold weather?

New York ALWAYS freezes.

New York NEVER suffers electric or gas shortages thereby, except for the occasional inconvenience of freezing rain and downed power lines.   

Sounds like the political hacks of Texas are seeking scapegoats for their own incompetence.

And, again, once the gas is out of the ground and in the pipes, the gas belongs to the customers.    Maybe the state of Texas can get into a bidding situation and BUY the gas they need....hmmmm?

Never?

Gov. Cuomo’s Self-Inflicted Natural Gas Shortage Coming to a Head
https://energycentral.com/c/og/gov-cuomo%E2%80%99s-self-inflicted-natural-gas-shortage-coming-head
Nov 22, 2019

State regulators admit there’s a gas shortage amid utility fight
https://nypost.com/2019/10/17/state-regulators-admit-theres-a-gas-shortage-amid-utility-fight/
October 17, 2019

Gas Shortages Give New York an Early Taste of the Green New Deal
https://www.wsj.com/articles/gas-shortages-give-new-york-an-early-taste-of-the-green-new-deal-11550272395
July 11, 2012

We now know the cause of New York’s massive blackout
https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/30/us/nyc-blackout-con-ed-explanation-trnd/index.html
July 30, 2019

August 14, 2003  Blackout
https://www3.dps.ny.gov/pscweb/WebFileRoom.nsf/Web/5FA2EC9B01FE415885256E69004D4C9E/$File/doc14463.pdf?OpenElement
...loss of electricity to 6.3 million customers...
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Offline Sled Dog

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Now hold on, that ain't right.

NY is made for cold. Texas is made for heat.
You want a fair comparison, take the hottest day in NY in 130 years and see how much trouble NY gets into. Or a mild to moderate hurricane... See how NY handles that. Predictably, poorly.

I get there's a whole lot of room and desire to point fingers. But off the get-go,  understand that this was a tad past extraordinary circumstances for Texas. Sh*t fell down just like it would from a class 4 or better hurricane... To a great degree, not planned for because expenses would outweigh the risk, even as planning and hardening against a class 4 hurricane is mostly absurd. Or planning around a 100 yr flood plain... with the expectation that there would be no losses at all.

C'mon. That ain't right. Not any more than expecting NY (or Montana) to handle 115 degrees flawlessly and with grace.

Some things just ain't nobody's fault. Some things just ARE. You see it coming and all you can do is say 'Oh, sh*t' and then it hits you upside the head with a 2x4.

Some day, the caldera at Yellowstone is gonna go off. And it will be epic. I ain't gonna take kindly to folks saying how Montana should have better prepared. How the hell do you prepare for that? Even though MT is in  a volcanic zone. Even though we have some experience in that regard... At some point the event outweighs ANY experience.

Not to say that after-action should not be considered. This was a major hit, and chances are steps can be taken to soften the blow next time. But there will be a next time. And it will suck. And folks will drop the ball.

So in my mind, the first point of after-action should be the regular citizen understanding the cold hard truth: All y'all have grown soft, relying on a system that is doomed to fail at some point, like all systems DO. Doesn't matter if it is Texas or New York. The system WILL fail, and !YOU! will be on your own. That is going to happen in  some degree to each and every one of us.

So instead of worrying about what the fat cats are doing... Wonder what !YOU! can do to protect !YOURSELF! ... Because the time is coming, surely. Folks that made it through the knothole would do well, best of all, to calculate where they themselves could have done better... What steps they can take to take the weight off the system in a time of trial, and not rely on it at all.

Sure, it's fine.

Winter happens in Texas every year.   Sometimes worse that others.

New York City has enjoyed the visit of major hurricanes in the past.   As someone from the upstate region, I'm all for telling NYC they should have been spending their own money to prepare for the next hurricane that comes along, because come along it shall, and to leave my money alone when it happens.

There's this concept from the colonial era that today's modern soft-and-girlish citizens have completely forgotten. 

Self-reliance and competence.   

Has American really considered the consequences of putting windmills all over the landscape? 

No.

Will America change it's approach to increased wind-mill reliance in the face of what happened to Texas?

No.

Is the Rodent War on US Energy Independence going to slow down in the face of what happened this winter? 

No.

What's going to happen if Yellowstone erupts on a massive scale?

People are going to die.  By the millions.   There is no economic way to plan and prepare for something not even remotely foreseeable at the present time.

But winters happen every year.   

Every.
Year.

Someday Mount Shasta will erupt again.   California should be planning for the event, including a good strong emergency fund devoted to that precise occurrence.   The taxpayers of other states should not be affected, not by one penny.   But California is not fiscally mature, to say the least.  So why aren't the 400 Congress-Creatures from the other states not cementing into law their refusal to fund California's criminal fiscal negligence?

When the Toilet By The Bay has yet another major earthquake, who should pay, the people of Idaho Falls or the People Dumping On The Streets of San Francisco?

Normal people plan for accidents with insurance.   

Normal states plan for natural disasters with prudent financial planning.

No state in the US is normal, apparently.  They're all run by children.
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Offline Sled Dog

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Never?

Gov. Cuomo’s Self-Inflicted Natural Gas Shortage Coming to a Head
https://energycentral.com/c/og/gov-cuomo%E2%80%99s-self-inflicted-natural-gas-shortage-coming-head
Nov 22, 2019

State regulators admit there’s a gas shortage amid utility fight
https://nypost.com/2019/10/17/state-regulators-admit-theres-a-gas-shortage-amid-utility-fight/
October 17, 2019

Gas Shortages Give New York an Early Taste of the Green New Deal
https://www.wsj.com/articles/gas-shortages-give-new-york-an-early-taste-of-the-green-new-deal-11550272395
July 11, 2012

We now know the cause of New York’s massive blackout
https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/30/us/nyc-blackout-con-ed-explanation-trnd/index.html
July 30, 2019

August 14, 2003  Blackout
https://www3.dps.ny.gov/pscweb/WebFileRoom.nsf/Web/5FA2EC9B01FE415885256E69004D4C9E/$File/doc14463.pdf?OpenElement
...loss of electricity to 6.3 million customers...

Well....when I left New York it was before Rodney King achieved hero status.   That boy then was still nothing but an unknown drug addicted male prostitute.    But I know my siblings left behind have still never frozen in the dark thanks to Rodent Policies ruining the state.

Thanks for your links, but all you've done is proven that Rodents should never be allowed to be in government, not even as union members cleaning toilets with their tongues.
The GOP is not the party leadership.  The GOP is the party MEMBERSHIP.   The members need to kick the leaders out if they leaders are going the wrong way.  No coddling allowed.

Offline Sled Dog

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I used a volcano ad-absurdum... I was grasping for something a feller would not be ready for up in here. And to describe the idea that some things are just bigger than you can plan for. SHTF down there in Texas, bigger and badder than anyone figured on, and when the system got put to the test, it fell down. That ain't no surprise in an extraordinary circumstance... And that was what I was getting at - Shifting focus from being upset that the system failed, to a necessary awareness of a need for self-reliance. That was my point.

Agreed and noted as such.

But a cold winter is nothing unusual, even if this particular event was somewhat outside the statistical norm.

Texas SHOULD have been prepared for this event.

There's another event the entire nation should be getting prepared for.   When the next Carrington Event happens, a massive Solar Mass Ejection flare that hammers the US magnetic field, the entire power grid of the US is vulnerable and no efforts are being made to address what is certainly a known and expected event.

The entire planet's electrical grid will fail.   Ours should not be allowed to collapse.   But our national grid can't even handle a wee bit of chill.

And, yeah, this will be an event that affects the entire nation equally and is suitable for intelligent Congressional action.

Too bad we don't have any intelligent Congress-Creatures.
The GOP is not the party leadership.  The GOP is the party MEMBERSHIP.   The members need to kick the leaders out if they leaders are going the wrong way.  No coddling allowed.

Offline roamer_1

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Agreed and noted as such.

But a cold winter is nothing unusual, even if this particular event was somewhat outside the statistical norm.

Texas SHOULD have been prepared for this event.


Well... in a word, no. There has not been weather this bad down there in living memory. Grampaw never seen it.

And since that kind of weather, everything more technical than a buckboard came into being. Alright... they had steam engines by then, and horseless carriages were all the rage in the big cities... but you get my drift.

You stop and think of everything that would have to change to winterize Texas. Every waterline would have to go 3 ft or better in the ground. All the plumbing in exterior walls and attics would have to be moved.

D00d. They don't have PLOWS. Not to mention snow blowers and all. Mini splits are all the rage down there... cheap and easy, and 100% gonna not function below freezing, not to mention below zero. Nobody's got heavy parkas or muks, They ain't got sh*t. And you're braggin up how they should have known better.

I like pokin fun at my Texan brothers about their inability to handle cold... There's a pic wandering around that says 'I survived the storm of 2012' or some such with a solo cup full of ice spilled in an asphalt parking lot. HAHAHA! Good fun and all... This is damn well different. Folks are dead. Hell stock tanks froze up solid (see, they don't have tank heaters down that way).. Even if you were right, which you ain't, it would be flat wrong to poke at em now.

This is some serious damn business here. I agree that folks should take steps. I agree that individual responsibility is paramount. I have said as much in these threads. But to blithely waive them off and say 'they have winter all the time' is just purely bullshit.

Quote
There's another event the entire nation should be getting prepared for.   When the next Carrington Event happens, a massive Solar Mass Ejection flare that hammers the US magnetic field, the entire power grid of the US is vulnerable and no efforts are being made to address what is certainly a known and expected event.

The entire planet's electrical grid will fail.   Ours should not be allowed to collapse.   But our national grid can't even handle a wee bit of chill.

And, yeah, this will be an event that affects the entire nation equally and is suitable for intelligent Congressional action.

Too bad we don't have any intelligent Congress-Creatures.

BOO! Tell you what... it wouldn't hurt me a lick. and I'd have more work than I'd know what to do with.

Online Smokin Joe

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Point of sale (POS) and point of delivery (POD) are two different things in the logistics world. Sales taxes are applied at the point of sale, not the delivery. thus it is Interstate commerce if bought out of state and delivered into another.
Then why am I charged my State sales tax on internet purchases (out of state)? The tax may be applied at the point of sale, but it is the tax for the point of delivery.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline RetBobbyMI

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Then why am I charged my State sales tax on internet purchases (out of state)? The tax may be applied at the point of sale, but it is the tax for the point of delivery.
Exactly the point. States charging state sales taxes on interstate commerce.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid."  -- John Wayne
"Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish.� ? Euripides, The Bacchae
"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.� ? Laurence J. Peter, The Peter Principle
"A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand.� ? Bertrand Russell, A History of Western Philosophy