Author Topic: Texas largely relies on natural gas for power. It wasn’t ready for the extreme cold.  (Read 2905 times)

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Offline catfish1957

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You are most welcome!

And BTW, This little excerpt is at the root of the problem and is no accident!

The federal government subsidies for wind amount to 2.3 cents per kWh, putting it well below the cost of coal and natural gas. A free market does not exist between these sources of electricity.

I can remember back in the early '90's moving from one location to another 100 miles away (both in Texas)   where my electricity costs went from 6.2 cents/KWH to 9.1.  That move alone, jaded me instantly on the state of electrical utilities being free market driven.
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline Bigun

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I can remember back in the early '90's moving from one location to another 100 miles away (both in Texas)   where my electricity costs went from 6.2 cents/KWH to 9.1.  That move alone, jaded me instantly on the state of electrical utilities being free market driven.


We are in strong disagreement in that case. I'm firmly convinced that truly FREE markets the only way to go but the problem is there aren't any! SOMEONE is always thumbing the scale somewhere!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline catfish1957

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We are in strong disagreement in that case. I'm firmly convinced that truly FREE markets the only way to go but the problem is there aren't any! SOMEONE is always thumbing the scale somewhere!

I think we are in agreement.  If you read my post, I am inferring that any free market commodity isn't going to be 50% different a 100 miles apart.
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline Bigun

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I think we are in agreement.  If you read my post, I am inferring that any free market commodity isn't going to be 50% different a 100 miles apart.

 :yowsa:  I just read your post and get that now.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline thackney

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I posted it just as I got it and the only numbers in it that I really give a damn about are these:

The federal government subsidies for wind amount to 2.3 cents per kWh, putting it well below the cost of coal and natural gas. A free market does not exist between these sources of electricity. because they go right to the heart of the problem IMHO.

The federal government is actively doing its best to undermine the idea of a market based electrical grid in Texas.

That credit is now lowered to 1.5¢/kWH but I agree with your point.  No subsidies for energy production.

If any government funds are used, it should be limited to technology research, but still I prefer none.
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Offline Lando Lincoln

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Free Enterprise would never be so foolish as to build these wind farms.  Oil, gas and coal remain King to the rational world. 
There are some among us who live in rooms of experience we can never enter.
John Steinbeck

Offline thackney

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I can remember back in the early '90's moving from one location to another 100 miles away (both in Texas)   where my electricity costs went from 6.2 cents/KWH to 9.1.  That move alone, jaded me instantly on the state of electrical utilities being free market driven.

The Texas deregulation to allow competition did not happen until Jan 1, 2002.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deregulation_of_the_Texas_electricity_market

I was working at Houston Lighting & Power in the early 90s.  We started moving towards this goal in 1991, planning probably started earlier farther up the management change. 
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Offline catfish1957

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Free Enterprise would never be so foolish as to build these wind farms.  Oil, gas and coal remain King to the rational world.

When you see the model of what Musk did with Tesla, turning it into a 3/4 of a Trillion Dollar, and most valuable car company in the world  based off the back of subsidies?

Gubmit money feeds that kind of Wind Farm and Solar Bank foolishness. The Hydrocarbon industry is competing with the Greenies who are benefiting with a marked deck. 
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline Bigun

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Free Enterprise would never be so foolish as to build these wind farms.  Oil, gas and coal remain King to the rational world.

That needed to be bigger so people could see it!  You could not be more right @Lando Lincoln but IMHO nuclear should have a place at the table WRT electrical power generations as well.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2021, 03:03:58 pm by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline catfish1957

  • Laken Riley.... Say her Name. And to every past and future democrat voter- Her blood is on your hands too!!!
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The Texas deregulation to allow competition did not happen until Jan 1, 2002.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deregulation_of_the_Texas_electricity_market

I was working at Houston Lighting & Power in the early 90s.  We started moving towards this goal in 1991, planning probably started earlier farther up the management change.

My last move was in '94, so I have no idea what the disparity is now.  But back in '91...  the difference didn't pass the red faced test as far as I was concerned. No electrical cost should be 50% difference two counties over.
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline thackney

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My last move was in '94, so I have no idea what the disparity is now.  But back in '91...  the difference didn't pass the red faced test as far as I was concerned. No electrical cost should be 50% difference two counties over.

In 1994 it was NOT free market driven.  It is now.  The differences because it are much smaller.  But now you and your neighbor can be hugely different rates depending on the plan you choose.

http://powertochoose.org/
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Offline XenaLee

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This has been a reality check for anyone in Texas and in any other state where it was assumed that their electric grid would not be fubared by the federal government in some way or measure.

Here's the check:   It will be fubared to the nth now.   The RL will ensure that states, especially red states like Texas, are 'brought into line' with their new green deal bullshit policies.

Get/buy a damned generator.   Get the biggest one you can afford.   I plan to buy one by next winter.   This situation will only get worse.  That is the reality.   Face it.
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Offline Lando Lincoln

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When you see the model of what Musk did with Tesla, turning it into a 3/4 of a Trillion Dollar, and most valuable car company in the world  based off the back of subsidies?

Gubmit money feeds that kind of Wind Farm and Solar Bank foolishness. The Hydrocarbon industry is competing with the Greenies who are benefiting with a marked deck.

As President Reagan said, government is the problem.  Here is a very minor but real example.  On February 10, I sent a package via USPS to my son in Bismarck, NoDak complete with tracking info.  As of this morning, the tracking says the package is delayed but is on its way to the next facility.  The last checkpoint was it left Palatine, Illinois on February 11.  What the heck is that?  Do you think UPS or FedEx could survive with similar performance? 

Can you imagine a Federal Supermarket?  What a mess that would be.

Then, to the point of wind farms.  When do they generally stall in output?  Extreme weather such as heat waves, bitter cold or freezing precipitation.  These are precisely the times when they are most needed.  Then, there is the carbon footprint of a single turbine from its manufacture, to soil stabilization, to foundations and so on.  Retired turbines must be landfilled.  They are monuments to our emotional stupidity. 
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Offline Lando Lincoln

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That needed to be bigger so people could see it!  You could not be more right @Lando Lincoln but IMHO nuclear should have a place at the table WRT electrical power generations as well.

@Bigun... I think of your well being often, my friend.  Hope you and yours are well.

These wind farms just infuriate me. 
« Last Edit: February 20, 2021, 03:25:43 pm by Lando Lincoln »
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Offline thackney

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Get/buy a damned generator.   Get the biggest one you can afford.   I plan to buy one by next winter.   This situation will only get worse.  That is the reality.   Face it.

I would recommend dual fuel over the biggest.  Lots of people had problems getting theirs to run due to lack of fuel / low nat gas pressure.

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Offline Bigun

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This has been a reality check for anyone in Texas and in any other state where it was assumed that their electric grid would not be fubared by the federal government in some way or measure.

Here's the check:   It will be fubared to the nth now.   The RL will ensure that states, especially red states like Texas, are 'brought into line' with their new green deal bullshit policies.

Get/buy a damned generator.   Get the biggest one you can afford.   I plan to buy one by next winter.   This situation will only get worse.  That is the reality.   Face it.

I currently own two.  A small 4KW gas engine-driven and a 15KW unit that hooks up to my tractor and can power my whole house in an emergency. 

I plan to install a 17KW propane unit on my house soon that will come on automatically when commercial power fails and drop off the same way when it comes back.  (I'm getting too old to fight the elements in those situations.)
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Lando Lincoln

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I would recommend dual fuel over the biggest.  Lots of people had problems getting theirs to run due to lack of fuel / low nat gas pressure.

I will have a 23kW LP unit installed at my home in Wisconsin.  It will have a 650 gallon tank dedicated to it.
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Offline thackney

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I currently own two.  A small 4KW gas engine-driven and a 15KW unit that hooks up to my tractor and can power my whole house in an emergency. 

I plan to install a 17KW propane unit on my house soon that will come on automatically when commercial power fails and drop off the same way when it comes back.  (I'm getting too old to fight the elements in those situations.)

I have liked the idea of the tractor option, but not the cost.  I can buy a dual fuel (gasoline/propane) entire generator for less dollars and still keep my tractor free for other use.
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Offline Bigun

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@Bigun... I think of your wellbeing often, my friend.  Hope you and yours are well.

Thank you, my friend!

Outside of somewhat low water pressure on our community water system, we have had no problems here and everyone is well. 

Quote
These wind farms just infuriate me.

 888high58888 They SHOULD infuriate any right-thinking person!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Bigun

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I have liked the idea of the tractor option, but not the cost.  I can buy a dual fuel (gasoline/propane) entire generator for less dollars and still keep my tractor free for other use.

I got that tractor-powered unit as a "to boot" in one of my trades a few years ago and it works just fine except, as I say, having to get out in the weather to use it.  It will be for sale before this year is out I think. It will power my 220-volt welder/plasma cutter so I might keep it just for that.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2021, 03:32:27 pm by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline XenaLee

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I would recommend dual fuel over the biggest.  Lots of people had problems getting theirs to run due to lack of fuel / low nat gas pressure.


Like this one....

https://www.samsclub.com/p/ai-power-portable-generator-6000-watt-dual-fuel/prod24963485?xid=plp_product_25

No quarter given to the enemy within...ever.

You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out of it.

Offline Lando Lincoln

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...You could not be more right @Lando Lincoln but IMHO nuclear should have a place at the table WRT electrical power generations as well.

Yes, I left out nukes.  They indeed have a place. 
There are some among us who live in rooms of experience we can never enter.
John Steinbeck

Offline catfish1957

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Like this one....



Looking at finally breaking down and getting back up generation (Generarc). Hate shelling out for 3 of 'em at $10K a piece.  But still if NG goes out, same boat I guess.
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline Bigun

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I will have a 23kW LP unit installed at my home in Wisconsin.  It will have a 650 gallon tank dedicated to it.

 :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Cyber Liberty

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I would recommend dual fuel over the biggest.  Lots of people had problems getting theirs to run due to lack of fuel / low nat gas pressure.

You stole my thunder.  If I wanted to get a generator like @Lando Lincoln's, I'd get a large container for Propane or something similar.  I'd never use natural gas piped in, because a crisis that can crash the electrical grid, will bring down the gas distribution network as well. 

Tanks of gasoline or diesel present problems of their own because there is a shelf life.  There would have to be a routine for rotating the stock, like in a pantry of canned goods.
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