Author Topic: 73 West Point Cadets accused of cheating in newest scandal,and not being expelled  (Read 933 times)

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Offline sneakypete

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Backlash Over Leniency at West Point After 73 Cadets Are Accused of Cheating
The revelations — and the academy’s handling of them — have prompted a debate about integrity, rehabilitation, and what it means to be a cadet.

By Mihir Zaveri and Dave Philipps


Quote
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/23/nyregion/west-point-cheating-scandal.html

It is engraved in a stone monument on the grounds of the U.S. Military Academy at West Point: “A cadet will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do.”

But this week, a cheating scandal involving dozens of cadets has ignited a fierce backlash over the academy’s decision to allow many of those involved to enter a rehabilitation program. The ensuing debate has forced the elite institution’s alumni, instructors and families to wrestle with questions of integrity, responsibility and honor — principles at the very heart of West Point’s identity.

Officials at West Point have offered few details about the investigation, which was made public earlier this week. It is the largest cheating scandal the institution has confronted in more than 40 years.

In all, 73 cadets were accused of cheating after West Point instructors discovered “irregularities in the mathematical work” they submitted on a final calculus exam in May.

continued at link above

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Offline sneakypete

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Affirmative action along with racial and gender quotas ain't enough?
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Offline Bigun

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Backlash Over Leniency at West Point After 73 Cadets Are Accused of Cheating
The revelations — and the academy’s handling of them — have prompted a debate about integrity, rehabilitation, and what it means to be a cadet.

By Mihir Zaveri and Dave Philipps


It is engraved in a stone monument on the grounds of the U.S. Military Academy at West Point: “A cadet will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do.”

But this week, a cheating scandal involving dozens of cadets has ignited a fierce backlash over the academy’s decision to allow many of those involved to enter a rehabilitation program. The ensuing debate has forced the elite institution’s alumni, instructors and families to wrestle with questions of integrity, responsibility and honor — principles at the very heart of West Point’s identity.

Officials at West Point have offered few details about the investigation, which was made public earlier this week. It is the largest cheating scandal the institution has confronted in more than 40 years.

In all, 73 cadets were accused of cheating after West Point instructors discovered “irregularities in the mathematical work” they submitted on a final calculus exam in May.

continued at link above

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And now even the long gray line has been destroyed!

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They used to kick them out for cheating..73 is a lot to lose...
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Offline catfish1957

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Just one more of what the needle of the barometer shows about us in moral fiber.

Precedent has been set at the Academy.  Future cheating will be looked at as reasonable risk sadly.
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline sneakypete

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And now even the long gray line has been destroyed!

Merry Christmas!  @sneakypete

@Bigun

Thanks,and the same right back to you!
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Offline sneakypete

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They used to kick them out for cheating.

@mystery-ak

Yeah,back in the days when being a WP graduate MEANT something! Yeah,a awful lot of them ran around acting like they had sticks up their ass and had never even heard rumors of a thing called "humor",but when they made you a promise,you could take it to the bank.

Not so much anymore,it seems.

Quote
73 is a lot to lose...

Not only a lot,a shame and an embarrassment. IMNSHO,oaths mean things,and EVERY commissioned officer at WP should treaten to resign unless we go back to the old standards of "an officers oath is his bond".
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Offline sneakypete

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Just one more of what the needle of the barometer shows about us in moral fiber.

Precedent has been set at the Academy.  Future cheating will be looked at as reasonable risk sadly.

@catfish1957

I knew this was going to happen when they cut some black cadets some slack on the tests years ago.
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Online jafo2010

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You can bet a large majority of the cheaters are minorities.  I would bet a huge sum.  Either folks of color, females, something along those lines.

I don't care if they have to dismiss half the class, get rid of them, or forever ruin the institution!!!

Offline Smokin Joe

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You can bet a large majority of the cheaters are minorities.  I would bet a huge sum.  Either folks of color, females, something along those lines.

I don't care if they have to dismiss half the class, get rid of them, or forever ruin the institution!!!
Right. Cheating won't get them through a command situation, or at least not the troops they command.
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Offline sneakypete

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Right. Cheating won't get them through a command situation, or at least not the troops they command.

@Smokin Joe

It WILL however,with any luck at all,get them a bullet in the back of their heads in a combat situation.

You can't cheat your way thought a combat command.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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@Smokin Joe

It WILL however,with any luck at all,get them a bullet in the back of their heads in a combat situation.

You can't cheat your way thought a combat command.
Going up on the hill to speak to the troops doesn't work well in a combat zone. Dad's outfit lost a brand new Lt. that way in Korea. But yeah, I know what you mean...
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Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression


There are no "Socialists", no "Progressives", only Communists, with every negative image that totalitarianism might muster, demanding fealty and conformity to their views, with a legacy of 150,000,000 dead and counting.

Online jafo2010

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A  fellow I worked with on three consulting engagements, a former green beret, told me he personally fragged more than one 90 day wonder Lieutenant in Vietnam who came and was anxious to go into the jungle to kill the enemy.  And I have heard that the average life expectancy to be 15 minutes for a lieutenant in Vietnam.

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Offline sneakypete

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A  fellow I worked with on three consulting engagements, a former green beret, told me he personally fragged more than one 90 day wonder Lieutenant in Vietnam who came and was anxious to go into the jungle to kill the enemy.


@jafo2010

He was a liar. Special Forces didn't get any "90 day wonders". We DID get the occasional O-1's,but they went through the SF officer qualification course before being assigned to an A-team,and in general they were VERY good young officers,willing to learn from the experienced NCO's they worked with. Any that had an attitude never made it far enough to get on a team.

I have also seen a few 0-2 and 0-3's that had been career SF NCO's who won battlefield commissions while working with units like Mike Force. You messed with people like them at your own risk.

I spent 7 years in SF,and never met or worked with a single young officer (0-1 to 0-3) that didn't have his "stuff" together. If one ever showed up anywhere on an actual deployed team,he didn't last long. You didn't screw with team sgts if you wanted to be around long. They could,and WOULD run your ass right out of the camp.

Quote
And I have heard that the average life expectancy to be 15 minutes for a lieutenant in Vietnam.

More BS. I know next to nothing about how things worked in conventional infantry units like the 173rd Abn,but all the Captains you saw running around had to have came from somewhere.

Yes,0-1 and 0-2's had high casualty rates,but that was almost entirely due to them being young,inexperienced,and working right out there in front where the most risks were being taken. The learning curve was steep. Especially since in conventional units the E-1 to E-5's they were commanding had very little experience themselves,and most of them didn't want to be there.

Ironically enough,going to a airborne unit like the 173rd was a bonus because they were all volunteers who wanted to be there,and who were more likely to take a young LT under their wings and protect him until he could get a little experience.

Going to a conventional "leg" unit that was full of teenage to 25 year old draftees was unbelievably dangerous. Nobody knew much about what was going on,and few cared. All most wanted to do was the absolute minimum they had to do to get through their 1 year tour.

AFAIK,all that "fragging" crap went on in the base camps at the rear,where the lame,the lazy,and the criminals were kept to do stuff like burn crap cans and run police calls while trying to get discharges so they could go home.

I guess there were rare exceptions in forward units that had real shitheads for commanders,but like I said,they were rare. Most of those buttholes had political connections in the army,and went on one or two assaults so they could put each other in for hero badges before using connections to get sent back to a rear echelon unit as a commander/war "hero".

That sort of thing was more common than most people might think,and the officers who pulled that crap were shameless.

It also happened with senior officers pulling their one "combat tour" flying around over their troops in combat,and "leading" them over the radio as they flew high above small arms fire and shouted orders into a handset. Pure scum.
 
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Online jafo2010

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Well good to hear, in that if he was throwing me bull.  But he was a scary dude, no mistaking that fact.  He had a demeanor that he was dangerous.

And he may well have saved my life.  I came down with pneumonia while I was in Louisiana.  I wasted away in a hotel room, eating only a few soda crackers.  I could not look at food without feeling nauseous.  I dropped 25 pounds.  He came along one day at lunch time, knocked on the door.  I answered in my skives.  He said, 'get dressed, we are going to eat lunch.'  I said, just leave me alone, I cannot even look at food, to which he responded, 'either get dressed and come with me, or I am dragging you from the room and taking you to the restaurant dressed as you are and shoving food down your throat.  Your choice'.  I got dressed, and we went to this restaurant where everything they give you is in a separate bowl.  The table top was covered with bowls of food. Just looking at the food was torture.   I ate about half my food, forcing every bite.  Next morning, I woke up and felt so good, I went to work.  I was very weak, but I was anxious to get back.

His stories go back to 1976 through 78, and his comment was 'these young guys right out of college would come to Nam, and want to go out into the jungle to kill g(*&s'.  I assumed he was talking about 90 day wonders, and not guys from the academy.

Offline sneakypete

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His stories go back to 1976 through 78, and his comment was 'these young guys right out of college would come to Nam, and want to go out into the jungle to kill g(*&s'.  I assumed he was talking about 90 day wonders, and not guys from the academy.

@jafo2010

He was full of Bush. For one thing,the VN war was over before that time frame.
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Online jafo2010

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You misunderstand.  76 to 78 was when he was telling me his stories.  That is when we worked together.

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I know very well when it ended.  I was the last year of the draft.  My best friend had number 49.  The draft got up to 41 before they ended it.  He was sweating he would get drafted.  My number, was 364.  We would have needed a declared major war for me to get drafted, although I came within a hair of joining the Air Force ROTC in school.  Took the physical, and they said I was out for being a pilot or navigator.  Next best thing they told me was missiles.  I just could not see me in a missile silo in the middle of Kansas.

Offline sneakypete

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You misunderstand.  76 to 78 was when he was telling me his stories.  That is when we worked together.

@jafo2010

I stand corrected.
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Offline verga

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You can bet a large majority of the cheaters are minorities.  I would bet a huge sum.  Either folks of color, females, something along those lines.

I don't care if they have to dismiss half the class, get rid of them, or forever ruin the institution!!!
:bingo:. Either we have rules and standards or we don't.
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Offline catfish1957

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:bingo:. Either we have rules and standards or we don't.

More accurately "double standards"
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Offline verga

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@jafo2010

He was a liar. Special Forces didn't get any "90 day wonders". We DID get the occasional O-1's,but they went through the SF officer qualification course before being assigned to an A-team,and in general they were VERY good young officers,willing to learn from the experienced NCO's they worked with. Any that had an attitude never made it far enough to get on a team.

I have also seen a few 0-2 and 0-3's that had been career SF NCO's who won battlefield commissions while working with units like Mike Force. You messed with people like them at your own risk.

I spent 7 years in SF,and never met or worked with a single young officer (0-1 to 0-3) that didn't have his "stuff" together. If one ever showed up anywhere on an actual deployed team,he didn't last long. You didn't screw with team sgts if you wanted to be around long. They could,and WOULD run your ass right out of the camp.

More BS. I know next to nothing about how things worked in conventional infantry units like the 173rd Abn,but all the Captains you saw running around had to have came from somewhere.

Yes,0-1 and 0-2's had high casualty rates,but that was almost entirely due to them being young,inexperienced,and working right out there in front where the most risks were being taken. The learning curve was steep. Especially since in conventional units the E-1 to E-5's they were commanding had very little experience themselves,and most of them didn't want to be there.

Ironically enough,going to a airborne unit like the 173rd was a bonus because they were all volunteers who wanted to be there,and who were more likely to take a young LT under their wings and protect him until he could get a little experience.

Going to a conventional "leg" unit that was full of teenage to 25 year old draftees was unbelievably dangerous. Nobody knew much about what was going on,and few cared. All most wanted to do was the absolute minimum they had to do to get through their 1 year tour.

AFAIK,all that "fragging" crap went on in the base camps at the rear,where the lame,the lazy,and the criminals were kept to do stuff like burn crap cans and run police calls while trying to get discharges so they could go home.

I guess there were rare exceptions in forward units that had real shitheads for commanders,but like I said,they were rare. Most of those buttholes had political connections in the army,and went on one or two assaults so they could put each other in for hero badges before using connections to get sent back to a rear echelon unit as a commander/war "hero".

That sort of thing was more common than most people might think,and the officers who pulled that crap were shameless.

It also happened with senior officers pulling their one "combat tour" flying around over their troops in combat,and "leading" them over the radio as they flew high above small arms fire and shouted orders into a handset. Pure scum.
When I was in basic, we had a young Lt. He made a joke to one of the Drills about combat. The Captain took him aside but not quite out of ear shot. He told the youngster that our drill instructors had earned their stripes and were Airborne Rangers and that if he kept his mouth shut and his ears open he might just learn enough to survive a combat situation. The Lt. went back and apologized. Earned some respect that day.   
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�More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly.�-Woody Allen
If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken him completely by surprise.

Offline Bigun

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@jafo2010

He was a liar. Special Forces didn't get any "90 day wonders". We DID get the occasional O-1's,but they went through the SF officer qualification course before being assigned to an A-team,and in general they were VERY good young officers,willing to learn from the experienced NCO's they worked with. Any that had an attitude never made it far enough to get on a team.

I have also seen a few 0-2 and 0-3's that had been career SF NCO's who won battlefield commissions while working with units like Mike Force. You messed with people like them at your own risk.

I spent 7 years in SF,and never met or worked with a single young officer (0-1 to 0-3) that didn't have his "stuff" together. If one ever showed up anywhere on an actual deployed team,he didn't last long. You didn't screw with team sgts if you wanted to be around long. They could,and WOULD run your ass right out of the camp.

More BS. I know next to nothing about how things worked in conventional infantry units like the 173rd Abn,but all the Captains you saw running around had to have came from somewhere.

Yes,0-1 and 0-2's had high casualty rates,but that was almost entirely due to them being young,inexperienced,and working right out there in front where the most risks were being taken. The learning curve was steep. Especially since in conventional units the E-1 to E-5's they were commanding had very little experience themselves,and most of them didn't want to be there.

Ironically enough,going to a airborne unit like the 173rd was a bonus because they were all volunteers who wanted to be there,and who were more likely to take a young LT under their wings and protect him until he could get a little experience.

Going to a conventional "leg" unit that was full of teenage to 25 year old draftees was unbelievably dangerous. Nobody knew much about what was going on,and few cared. All most wanted to do was the absolute minimum they had to do to get through their 1 year tour.

AFAIK,all that "fragging" crap went on in the base camps at the rear,where the lame,the lazy,and the criminals were kept to do stuff like burn crap cans and run police calls while trying to get discharges so they could go home.

I guess there were rare exceptions in forward units that had real shitheads for commanders,but like I said,they were rare. Most of those buttholes had political connections in the army,and went on one or two assaults so they could put each other in for hero badges before using connections to get sent back to a rear echelon unit as a commander/war "hero".

That sort of thing was more common than most people might think,and the officers who pulled that crap were shameless.

It also happened with senior officers pulling their one "combat tour" flying around over their troops in combat,and "leading" them over the radio as they flew high above small arms fire and shouted orders into a handset. Pure scum.

John F'n Kerry asked for and received three purple hearts inside of 90 days and it was didi mao for him!  Everyone in my unit put bandaids on wounds far worse than anything he saw all the time and kept on moving.  Look where he is and where we are now.
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"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
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Offline sneakypete

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John F'n Kerry asked for and received three purple hearts inside of 90 days and it was didi mao for him!  Everyone in my unit put bandaids on wounds far worse than anything he saw all the time and kept on moving.  Look where he is and where we are now.

@Bigun

Kerry,IN FACT,never had one single wound that required more than a bandage,or that didn't quit bleeding on their own.

He also put himself in for all three. This happened because the rule was back then that anyone who was wounded  times qualified for immediate transfer back to the US,irregardless of how much or how little time they served in VN.

IIRC,two of those PH's he got came from when his squadron leader (or whatever the hell they called him) was on leave,and Kerry was the acting commander while he was gone. This allowed Kerry to not only write himself up for his Purple Hearts,but also to approve them to be sent up the chain of command.
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Offline rangerrebew

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Not only a lot,a shame and an embarrassment. IMNSHO,oaths mean things,and EVERY commissioned officer at WP should treaten to resign unless we go back to the old standards of "an officers oath is his bond".

Or, have those who got the bum's rush before this happened, file a class action lawsuit for discrimination, double standards, inequality, discrimination against nonathletes,
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