Pardon My Perplexity, But Why Should We Be Gracious?

[roamer_1]

We may just have to go the Watergate route.  Nixon won overwhelmingly in 72.  But the Rats didn't give up, and they eventually got their scalp.

No. If there is corruption, there must be evidence. And if there is evidence, there is an argument for the court. But overturning the voters is a very dangerous business, that I for one will not abide.

[Jazzhead]

I almost agree with you, with a simple caveat: If there were electoral shenanigans, then by all means pursue them through the courts, regardless if enough can be garnered to overturn a county or state. But only where and how the evidence will allow.

That is a reasonable statement, sir.

[dfwgator]

No. If there is corruption, there must be evidence. And if there is evidence, there is an argument for the court. But overturning the voters is a very dangerous business, that I for one will not abide.

Was not Watergate, and Nixon's resignation overturning the 72 vote?

[roamer_1]

It was a close election, could have gone either way.  I think in a way what Trump is doing now, is precisely what his enemies did.  Plant enough seeds of doubt that the election was legit with all the "Russia, Russia, Russia" crap.      I think he knows he won't win, but he can do exactly what the Rats did to him.

I think that is very likely right. But it is playing with a strange fire that Republicans have always before eschewed. And again, when BOTH sides de-legitimize the electoral process, there will not be an electoral process for long.

[roamer_1]

Was not Watergate, and Nixon's resignation overturning the 72 vote?

YES. And Nixon did well to avoid the crisis by stepping down.

[dfwgator]

I think that is very likely right. But it is playing with a strange fire that Republicans have always before eschewed. And again, when BOTH sides de-legitimize the electoral process, there will not be an electoral process for long.

And where did that get the Republicans?   It's time we started playing the same game as the Rats.  Sorry, but as long as we play by the Marquess of Queensberry Rules, the Rats will keep kicking our ass.

[Jazzhead]

No. If there is corruption, there must be evidence. And if there is evidence, there is an argument for the court. But overturning the voters is a very dangerous business, that I for one will not abide.

Thank you for making that crucial distinction.  It is truly dangerous ground to disrespect the people's verdict.   The Dems did it last time to the millions who chose Trump, and I despise them for it. And I likewise despise those who now claim their rage entitles them to reject what the people have now decided.

[dfwgator]

YES. And Nixon did well to avoid the crisis by stepping down.

Biden will not be a popular President, eventually he will piss off somebody who knows what went down, and they will talk.     Biden will never be more popular than he is now.  Starting January 20, it starts going downhill for him.

[libertybele]

I repeat - GOP candidates were successful, defying all poll predictions, up and down the ballot.  It was only Trump who lost.

I think I've made this point before --- there was absolute, undeniable fraud and corruption.  That fraud and corruption is being fought in court.

Whether recounts or lawsuits puts Trump in the oval office or not is questionable.

What cannot and should not be denied is the fact that if there indeed was corruption or fraud that took place, those that did so committed a crime and should be punished; otherwise WE the People will never be able to trust the outcome of any election.  The INTEGRITY of our electoral process has been compromised. That is what is extremely important here.  We cannot have people rigging elections nor the media deciding elections.  We are NOT a Banana Republic.

If you don't see this as cause for concern or alarm, then I really think you need to re-examine your priorities. 

[roamer_1]

And where did that get the Republicans?   It's time we started playing the same game as the Rats.  Sorry, but as long as we play by the Marquess of Queensberry Rules, the Rats will keep kicking our ass.

It has long been the case that Republicans have had to overwhelm the ballot box to nullify typical Democrat cheating... And the answer does not mean, 'they cheat, so we can too'. If neither side will abide the rules, then the rules are gone.

[dfwgator]

Thank you for making that crucial distinction.  It is truly dangerous ground to disrespect the people's verdict.   The Dems did it last time to the millions who chose Trump, and I despise them for it. And I likewise despise those who now claim their rage entitles them to reject what the people have now decided.

This will only stop when there is MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) if either side plays this game.   That only happens when Republicans stop rolling over.  And Trump is the only one who seems to get that.

[dfwgator]

It has long been the case that Republicans have had to overwhelm the ballot box to nullify typical Democrat cheating... And the answer does not mean, 'they cheat, so we can too'. If neither side will abide the rules, then the rules are gone.

How are we cheating?  Trump is pursuing a legal option, it may get thrown out.  But it's not cheating.

[roamer_1]

Thank you for making that crucial distinction.  It is truly dangerous ground to disrespect the people's verdict.   The Dems did it last time to the millions who chose Trump, and I despise them for it. And I likewise despise those who now claim their rage entitles them to reject what the people have now decided.

That is the salient point. 'The point of total darkness and the light's divine divide' - to misuse Dan Fogelberg. 

[aligncare]

Understand if the Conservatives ditch Trump, we are right back to Square One.  Leaderless, just 70 million people bitching and nothing getting done.   Regardless of how you feel about Trump, the fact is, he is still the only one who can galvanize our side,    until the torch can be passed on.    But we aren't at that point yet, so we have to stand by Trump, as long as he's willing to fight.

Exactly. We’re running out of options here. If democrats can steal national elections they become the gatekeepers. Patriotic Americans will huddle outside with no voice and no keys to enter into the governing majority ever again. It’s bye bye miss American pie.

[dfwgator]

YES. And Nixon did well to avoid the crisis by stepping down.

A "Crisis" that was ginned up by the Leftist media that never forgave Nixon for his involvement with HUAC.  And I'm not even that much of a Nixon fan.

[Jazzhead]

I think that is very likely right. But it is playing with a strange fire that Republicans have always before eschewed. And again, when BOTH sides de-legitimize the electoral process, there will not be an electoral process for long.

Words of wisdom.  We do ourselves, and our nation, no good by acting like skunks just because the "other side" does so.

[dfwgator]

Words of wisdom.  We do ourselves, and our nation, no good by acting like skunks just because the "other side" does so.

So going through courts is being a "skunk"?    Algore got 37 days.

[roamer_1]

How are we cheating?  Trump is pursuing a legal option, it may get thrown out.  But it's not cheating.

I am ALL FOR IT if it is done in the courts... I think that overturning obvious ballot-stuffing is great. And I think inconsistencies (like not allowing Republican observers) has to hurt. But proving widespread ballot tampering had better come with incontrovertible evidence... And in that case where it is down to a last gasp, I would far prefer the mulligan to state legislators assigning electors.

You forget the other half that will not believe you, and you are doing to them precisely what you think they are doing to you. By and large, it is not the American people who are acting in bad faith, Democrat or Republican... It is the political machines that are acting badly. To overturn the American people is a profoundly bad mistake.

Unless you want war.

[roamer_1]

Exactly. We’re running out of options here. If democrats can steal national elections they become the gatekeepers. Patriotic Americans will huddle outside with no voice and no keys to enter into the governing majority ever again. It’s bye bye miss American pie.

Think long and hard about what you are justifying... Without any proof so far.

[dfwgator]

I am ALL FOR IT if it is done in the courts... I think that overturning obvious ballot-stuffing is great. And I think inconsistencies (like not allowing Republican observers) has to hurt. But proving widespread ballot tampering had better come with incontrovertible evidence... And in that case where it is down to a last gasp, I would far prefer the mulligan to state legislators assigning electors.

You forget the other half that will not believe you, and you are doing to them precisely what you think they are doing to you. By and large, it is not the American people who are acting in bad faith, Democrat or Republican... It is the political machines that are acting badly. To overturn the American people is a profoundly bad mistake.

Unless you want war.

You and I know that won't happen, it will be Biden in the White House.   But it will be a Pyrrhic Victory, that is tainted.    And he will not be a popular President.   

Trump is doing this because it keeps the base with him.   If he had conceded too early,   he would have lost a good chunk of them.     Now, he gets to fight another day.  Yes, he may temporarily lose some people who think he's taking this too far.   But when they see the disaster of the Biden/Harris administration, that will be forgotten.

Note that since the election,  Trump's approval has actually gone up, not down.   America will have a serious case of "Buyer's Remorse" next year.

[roamer_1]

Words of wisdom.  We do ourselves, and our nation, no good by acting like skunks just because the "other side" does so.

Never wrestle with a pig, right?

[Bigun]

I am ALL FOR IT if it is done in the courts... I think that overturning obvious ballot-stuffing is great. And I think inconsistencies (like not allowing Republican observers) has to hurt. But proving widespread ballot tampering had better come with incontrovertible evidence... And in that case where it is down to a last gasp, I would far prefer the mulligan to state legislators assigning electors.

You forget the other half that will not believe you, and you are doing to them precisely what you think they are doing to you. By and large, it is not the American people who are acting in bad faith, Democrat or Republican... It is the political machines that are acting badly. To overturn the American people is a profoundly bad mistake.

Unless you want war.

If war is what it takes to clean this shit up then so be it!  But we MUST exhaust every other possible avenue before that happens!

[Hoodat]

Don McLean - Bye Bye Miss American Pie

[sneakypete]

It's perfectly logical. Folks support Republican policies but were sick and tired of Trump's reality show.    The fact that Republicans won up and down the board strongly suggests that the rejection of Trump wasn't because of fraud, but because of the expressed will and wisdom of the people.

@Jazzhead

You realize that what you are saying is that it was people who consider style to be more important than substance who  refused to vote for Trump,while placing yourself squarely in the middle of that group.

Another word for people like that is "shallow".

[dfwgator]

@Jazzhead

You realize that what you are saying is that it was people who consider style to be more important than substance who  refused to vote for Trump,while placing yourself squarely in the middle of that group.

Another word for people like that is "shallow".

They are going to find out where the shallowness gets them,  good and hard.