They Know How to Prevent Megafires. Why Won’t Anybody Listen?

[SZonian]

What a week. Rough for all Californians. Exhausting for the firefighters on the front lines. Heart-shattering for those who lost homes and loved ones. But a special “Truman Show” kind of hell for the cadre of men and women who’ve not just watched California burn, fire ax in hand, for the past two or three or five decades, but who’ve also fully understood the fire policy that created the landscape that is now up in flames.

“What’s it like?” Tim Ingalsbee repeated back to me, wearily, when I asked him what it was like to watch California this past week. In 1980, Ingalsbee started working as a wildland firefighter. In 1995, he earned a doctorate in environmental sociology. And in 2005, frustrated by the huge gap between what he was learning about fire management and seeing on the fire line, he started Firefighters United for Safety, Ethics, and Ecology. Since then FUSEE has been lobbying Congress, and trying to educate anybody who will listen, about the misguided fire policy that is leading to the megafires we are seeing today.

So what’s it like? “It’s just … well … it’s horrible. Horrible to see this happening when the science is so clear and has been clear for years. I suffer from Cassandra syndrome,” Ingalsbee said. “Every year I warn people: Disaster’s coming. We got to change. And no one listens. And then it happens.”

[excerpted]

https://www.propublica.org/article/they-know-how-to-prevent-megafires-why-wont-anybody-listen?utm_source=pocket-newtab

[roamer_1]

A pretty good article, but it doesn't go far enough... Prescribed burns, sure, but forest management, and grassland management is just as important. It is an entire ecology - Without the logging sales, there are no crews, and no machinery, and no roads for firebreaks and access. Without grazing pressure and haying, weeds out pace the grasses and can grow well into 10 feet high... All cracklin brown by the dog days of summer.

Even wildlife and ag husbandry get into the deal - The buckbrush all along this creek out back is ground pruned by the deer... There is literally not a single thing near the ground within the reach of a deer on it's back legs... So there is no dry fuels within 4 ft of the canopy... A fire could conceivably pass right under that brush and never light it up at all. Goats do the same. Heck, throw some hogs at a tangled mess of brushland, come back in a week or two, and it will all be gone. All of it.

And of course, mechanical removal wherever density calls for it. mow it down. Prune it up. park it out. Not only will it be far harder to catch fire, it will be far easier to control and put out.

This is purely bunny-hugger nonsense preaching to let it go wild. Especially in populated areas. but everywhere else too. The options are to manage it or watch it burn. That's really the only two choices.

[Cyber Liberty]

I think it's because they don't like any of the proposed solutions.  Some Capitalists might make a buck.

[bigheadfred]

For years they have gone around and railed out (and burned) huge swaths of sagebrush and planted things like crested wheatgrass.

Other flora suffered. Fauna disappearing.

Guess what they are planting now?

Sagebrush.

I don't know if it is the law, but logging/timber companies tend to plant back more trees than they kill.

[PeteS in CA]

...
I don't know if it is the law, but logging/timber companies tend to plant back more trees than they kill.

They tend their lands like orchards.

The basic problem is that over a period of something like 5 decades, the Enviros have been given the ability to prevent common sense land management. Until the Enviros - in NGOs and in government - are hamstrung and rooted out, all states will be plagued by them in some way and degree. In CA it's forest manglement and wildfires. In other states it's declaring a man-made pond a "navigable waterway of the United States". Etc., etc., etc. ......

[bigheadfred]

They tend their lands like orchards.

The basic problem is that over a period of something like 5 decades, the Enviros have been given the ability to prevent common sense land management. Until the Enviros - in NGOs and in government - are hamstrung and rooted out, all states will be plagued by them in some way and degree. In CA it's forest manglement and wildfires. In other states it's declaring a man-made pond a "navigable waterway of the United States". Etc., etc., etc. ......

I know all about it.

The federal government owns 61.65 percent of Idaho's total land, 32,635,835 acres out of 52,933,120 total acres. Idaho ranked sixth in the nation in federal land ownership.

There has been a problem here of people owning a piece of ground accessible through another piece of property. Someone will  buy the first piece and block access to the other. Happened to one uncle. He won in court. Happened to some other people we know. Both pieces bordered BLM ground. My other uncle took his D6 Cat and made a road up to the back property. BLM guy showed up and asked what my uncle thought he was doing. My uncle said any GDed I want to. Road is still there.

[Cyber Liberty]

Like I said, Capitalists might make a buck, and we can't have that.  It's far more important than stupid shit like Flora and Fauna.

[Smokin Joe]

A pretty good article, but it doesn't go far enough... Prescribed burns, sure, but forest management, and grassland management is just as important. It is an entire ecology - Without the logging sales, there are no crews, and no machinery, and no roads for firebreaks and access. Without grazing pressure and haying, weeds out pace the grasses and can grow well into 10 feet high... All cracklin brown by the dog days of summer.

Even wildlife and ag husbandry get into the deal - The buckbrush all along this creek out back is ground pruned by the deer... There is literally not a single thing near the ground within the reach of a deer on it's back legs... So there is no dry fuels within 4 ft of the canopy... A fire could conceivably pass right under that brush and never light it up at all. Goats do the same. Heck, throw some hogs at a tangled mess of brushland, come back in a week or two, and it will all be gone. All of it.

And of course, mechanical removal wherever density calls for it. mow it down. Prune it up. park it out. Not only will it be far harder to catch fire, it will be far easier to control and put out.

This is purely bunny-hugger nonsense preaching to let it go wild. Especially in populated areas. but everywhere else too. The options are to manage it or watch it burn. That's really the only two choices.

While the so called environmentalists rage at clear cutting, while those newly planted trees are growing there is habitat diversity from the cut areas growing up in grasses, and birds like Spotted Owls (among a host of others) live along those forest margins, eating from the meadows, hunting in the meadows, and nesting in the trees. The very cries of biodiversity are muted by the howls for preservation, and the critters suffer. It takes diverse environmental niches to support a diverse fauna.

BTW, someone might burn that beetle killed wood in a fire place (the horror! , the CARBON! ) or worse yet, use it to make something....Or fire killed timber. So much timber is rotting on the hoof because of environmental proscriptions now, it isn't funny, adding to fuel load instead of being utilized. A really, really, big part of sustainable resources is that you use those resources, not let them go to waste to the eventual detriment of the ecosystem.

But someone hit that nail on the head. Instead of collecting $xx a month and handing out t-shirts, someone might actually make money utilizing resources! That's anathema to the Communist collective.

[DB]

Like I said, Capitalists might make a buck, and we can't have that.  It's far more important than stupid shit like Flora and Fauna.

Its as simple as the average California resident goes ape shit over cutting down a tree. You cannot clear trees back from where you want to build a home without massive fines.

[sneakypete]

Because the enviro-whackos are in charge of the climate.

[Cyber Liberty]

Its as simple as the average California resident goes ape shit over cutting down a tree. You cannot clear trees back from where you want to build a home without massive fines.

They, in particular, don't want timber companies harvesting the deadwood.  They might make a buck, and that must NOT be permitted!!  Better to bankrupt timber companies than let them do what comes naturally to clear the underbrush.

Heaven forbid somebody might make a buck.

[Smokin Joe]

Because the enviro-whackos are in charge of the climate.

No, they aren't any more in charge of the climate than I could own a moon crater for a home site, although the latter is an eventual possibility. They are exerting power over people and resources they themselves will never use. It is the ultimate Dog in the Manger gig.

[Smokin Joe]

They, in particular, don't want timber companies harvesting the deadwood.  They might make a buck, and that must NOT be permitted!!  Better to bankrupt timber companies than let them do what comes naturally to clear the underbrush.

Heaven forbid somebody might make a buck.

They don't want private entities cutting firewood, because, well, they'd rather burn it in the wild and smoke out people in States far away (Yes, even in North Dakota we had a few days of unreal haze from smoke from California wildfires). So they pollute our air rather than their own (and then bitch about fraccing). Typical Leftists.

[Cyber Liberty]

They don't want private entities cutting firewood, because, well, they'd rather burn it in the wild and smoke out people in States far away (Yes, even in North Dakota we had a few days of unreal haze from smoke from California wildfires). So they pollute our air rather than their own. Typical Leftists.

They feel good about themselves, and that's the important thing.

[Smokin Joe]

They feel good about themselves, and that's the important thing.

Let the bloody wankers do what wankers do to feel good and leave the rest of the world out of it. They won't even have to drive/fly in to virtue signal, and the rest of the planet can have a life.

[bigheadfred]

Let the bloody wankers do what wankers do to feel good and leave the rest of the world out of it. They won't even have to drive/fly in to virtue signal, and the rest of the planet can have a life.

If you let them do what they want there would be rioting in the streets with no fear of retribution...

[Smokin Joe]

I

If you let them do what they want there would be rioting in the streets with no fear of retribution...

Only in San Francisco. I meant 'wankers' when I said 'wankers'. Maybe they could have their mass debate online...

[DB]

They don't want private entities cutting firewood, because, well, they'd rather burn it in the wild and smoke out people in States far away (Yes, even in North Dakota we had a few days of unreal haze from smoke from California wildfires). So they pollute our air rather than their own (and then bitch about fraccing). Typical Leftists.

How about the federal government fine California for the massive air pollution they cause? It is preventable.

[bigheadfred]

Only in San Francisco. I meant 'wankers' when I said 'wankers'. Maybe they could have their mass debate online...

Oh. You meant wankers.

Mass debate online. Isn't that twitter?

[Cyber Liberty]

How about the federal government fine California for the massive air pollution they cause? It is preventable.

The same National government that decided it's OK to wipe out the last of the California Condors is going to decide whether California should be fined.  How do you think that's going to go?

[bigheadfred]

The same National government that decided it's OK to wipe out the last of the California Condors is going to decide whether California should be fined.  How do you think that's going to go?

Tough ?

Up in smoke.

Shot down in flames.

 

[Smokin Joe]

Oh. You meant wankers.

Mass debate online. Isn't that twitter?

Yep! and fecebook, when they aren't scrubbed.

[mountaineer]

https://twitter.com/kalpurrnia/status/1303481613880381444/photo/1

[sneakypete]

A pretty good article, but it doesn't go far enough... Prescribed burns, sure, but forest management, and grassland management is just as important. It is an entire ecology - Without the logging sales, there are no crews, and no machinery, and no roads for firebreaks and access. Without grazing pressure and haying, weeds out pace the grasses and can grow well into 10 feet high... All cracklin brown by the dog days of summer.

Even wildlife and ag husbandry get into the deal - The buckbrush all along this creek out back is ground pruned by the deer... There is literally not a single thing near the ground within the reach of a deer on it's back legs... So there is no dry fuels within 4 ft of the canopy... A fire could conceivably pass right under that brush and never light it up at all. Goats do the same. Heck, throw some hogs at a tangled mess of brushland, come back in a week or two, and it will all be gone. All of it.

And of course, mechanical removal wherever density calls for it. mow it down. Prune it up. park it out. Not only will it be far harder to catch fire, it will be far easier to control and put out.

This is purely bunny-hugger nonsense preaching to let it go wild. Especially in populated areas. but everywhere else too. The options are to manage it or watch it burn. That's really the only two choices.

@roamer_1

Let's not forget controlled burns of brush and grass. The envio-whackos won't allowed controlled burns for "environmental reasons",but if you keep it burned,it doesn't grow and become a 20 foot wall of fire. The ONLY way to do this is to do it every year.

[sneakypete]

I know all about it.

The federal government owns

@bigheadfred

You misspelled "Feral".