Author Topic: Thanks to Climate-Driven Green Energy Mandates, California’s Electric Grid Is Near Collapse  (Read 1185 times)

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Online Elderberry

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Climate Realism By Anthony Watts -August 19, 2020

This time, “rolling blackouts” are due to green energy issues, not Enron market manipulation.

Remember when California imposed rolling blackouts in 2000 and 2001? This occurred when California had a shortage of electricity supply caused by electricity market manipulations. A demand-supply gap was created, mainly by Enron, to create an artificial shortage so speculators could benefit from an 800 percent increase in wholesale electricity prices. As a result, California suffered from multiple large-scale blackouts. Now an electricity shortage coupled with rolling blackouts is happening again, but for a different reason.

The reason? Solar power, or more accurately, the lack of it. Solar power has a thorny problem: It disappears after sunset. And California’s electric grid is highly dependent on it now thanks to the political mandate known as the Global Warming Solutions Act of 2006 (AB 32).

AB32 required that 50 percent of California’s electricity to be powered by “green energy” aka wind and solar, by 2025 and 60 percent by 2030, ending in 100 percent “carbon free” energy by 2045.

More: https://climaterealism.com/2020/08/thanks-to-climate-driven-green-energy-mandates-californias-electric-grid-is-near-collapse/

Offline Smokin Joe

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  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Just like Liberals.

Create problems by solving problems that either have no solution or imposing a solution to something that can't be changed, anyway.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

rangerrebew

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Thanks to Climate-Driven Green Energy Mandates, California’s Electric Grid Is Near Collapse
By
Anthony Watts -
August 19, 20200
 

By Anthony Watts

This time, “rolling blackouts” are due to green energy issues, not Enron market manipulation.

Remember when California imposed rolling blackouts in 2000 and 2001? This occurred when California had a shortage of electricity supply caused by electricity market manipulations. A demand-supply gap was created, mainly by Enron, to create an artificial shortage so speculators could benefit from an 800 percent increase in wholesale electricity prices. As a result, California suffered from multiple large-scale blackouts. Now an electricity shortage coupled with rolling blackouts is happening again, but for a different reason.

This time it is due to “unreliable” aka green energy. Note that in 2000 and 2001, the forced rolling blackouts happened during peak load times (and peak pricing), which typical was in mid-afternoons. Now, the rolling blackouts hitting the state are happening in the evening. Why the difference?

https://climaterealism.com/2020/08/thanks-to-climate-driven-green-energy-mandates-californias-electric-grid-is-near-collapse/

Online Wingnut

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Hundreds of thousands of Californians experienced rolling blackouts Friday night after officials declared a Stage 3 energy emergency due to a statewide heat wave.

The last time California was in a Stage 3 emergency was in 2001. At that time, the state was in the middle of a very different type of energy crisis — and the governor lost his job over it.

It started with deregulating the power grid. The idea was that more competition would lower prices. However, what actually happened was major market manipulation.

On top of that, California had not built new power plants to keep up with the increasing population.

From April to December of 2000, the state saw an 800% increase in wholesale energy prices — and the start of months of rolling blackouts across California that put lives at risk and hurt the economy.

Voters were so angry they recalled Gov. Gray Davis in 2003.
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Online Hoodat

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It started with deregulating the power grid. The idea was that more competition would lower prices. However, what actually happened was major market manipulation.

BS.  When the State maintains a price ceiling on retail electricity charges, that is not deregulation.
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Offline truth_seeker

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Apparently it is a national pastime, to discuss California.

We sure have problems. We are in the middle of record setting heat. My electricity has not missed a volt. It comes from a natural gas's burning plant.

Calif should get new nuclear  electricity plants

"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Online Elderberry

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Apparently it is a national pastime, to discuss California.

We sure have problems. We are in the middle of record setting heat. My electricity has not missed a volt. It comes from a natural gas's burning plant.

Calif should get new nuclear  electricity plants

Not near the discussions Texas gets.

I've only had to use my natural gas generator once in the 35 yrs I've lived in my home in SE Houston. I was out of power for just shy of 2 weeks. Other than that were a few outages that were so short I didn't bother firing up the gen.

Online Wingnut

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Apparently it is a national pastime, to discuss California.

We sure have problems. We are in the middle of record setting heat. My electricity has not missed a volt. It comes from a natural gas's burning plant.

Calif should get new nuclear  electricity plants





Not near the discussions Texas gets.

I've only had to use my natural gas generator once in the 35 yrs I've lived in my home in SE Houston. I was out of power for just shy of 2 weeks. Other than that were a few outages that were so short I didn't bother firing up the gen.


Don't forget Florida Man.  He's a hot topic!
« Last Edit: August 20, 2020, 04:24:57 pm by Wingnut »
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Offline MOD8

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Offline PeteS in CA

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BS.  When the State maintains a price ceiling on retail electricity charges, that is not deregulation.

When the state mandates percentages from sources, when the state forces PG&E, SoCal Edison, etc. to buy from bird chopper and fryer farms, when the state forces PG&E, SoCal Edison, etc. to buy that power from the choppers and fryers at above market prices, that is not deregulation.
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Online Hoodat

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When the state mandates percentages from sources, when the state forces PG&E, SoCal Edison, etc. to buy from bird chopper and fryer farms, when the state forces PG&E, SoCal Edison, etc. to buy that power from the choppers and fryers at above market prices, that is not deregulation.

Exactly.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

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"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline PeteS in CA

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Apparently it is a national pastime, to discuss California.

We sure have problems. We are in the middle of record setting heat. My electricity has not missed a volt. It comes from a natural gas's burning plant.
...

We had a 9 hour outage on Sunday and a 20 or 30 minute outage the previous Friday evening, but both were due to equipment failures not rotating black-outs.

California is a favorite bogey-target among conservatives. Some of it is well deserved, but much of it is laden with incorrectness and misunderstanding.
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Online Hoodat

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California is a favorite bogey-target among conservatives. Some of it is well deserved, but much of it is laden with incorrectness and misunderstanding.

Proposition 13 is a prime example.  It is something that Conservatives championed back in the 70s, but today has created vast inequalities for property owners.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline PeteS in CA

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The aspect of Prop 13 to which you allude was fully understood at the time. Prop 13 kept government from raising property tax rates and rising property values from driving long-term owners out of their homes. I've been on both sides of that "inequality" - when we bought our home and now ## years later - I'd have voted for Prop 13 both times, were it not already law.
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Offline truth_seeker

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When the state mandates percentages from sources, when the state forces PG&E, SoCal Edison, etc. to buy from bird chopper and fryer farms, when the state forces PG&E, SoCal Edison, etc. to buy that power from the choppers and fryers at above market prices, that is not deregulation.

Don't forget Los Angeles DWP, San Diego G&E

etc
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline PeteS in CA

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Don't forget Los Angeles DWP, San Diego G&E

etc

I wasn't sure whether the municipal utilities were subject to the same enviro-requirements as the biggies.
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Offline Smokin Joe

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The aspect of Prop 13 to which you allude was fully understood at the time. Prop 13 kept government from raising property tax rates and rising property values from driving long-term owners out of their homes. I've been on both sides of that "inequality" - when we bought our home and now ## years later - I'd have voted for Prop 13 both times, were it not already law.
I'd love something like that, because my property value was reassessed at 40% above the previous year with no improvements, and the stinking tax board hid behind COVID and a "communications problem" and never let those of us who got such reassessments a chance to pitch our bitch.

When it is eligible again, I want to revive Measure 2 (an elimination of the property tax on farm and residential real estate).
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online Hoodat

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Prop 13 can provide a huge relief when your property values go up.  Let's say you purchased a house in the late '70s for $50K.  According to Prop 13, the highest taxable valuation allowable 42 years later would be  $115,000, even though the actual value may be five times that.  But for the new property owner who builds a comparable $575K house today, his tax bill is five times higher than the other home owner.  In addition, his annual increase will also be five times higher than the first owner.

But lets say the new builder instead buys the first house for $575K (taxable value $115K), tears down the entire house except for one wall, and then uses that wall as part of the construction for a $5 million mansion, his property tax will still be based on $115K of value.

In other words, if you have a ton of money at your disposal, you can build a mansion, and get away with paying a paltry amount of property tax.  And the fact that your property has such a low tax amount on it while your neighbor who didn't leave a wall up on his new mansion ends up paying taxes on $5 million value (43 times more).

The law is a boon for established Californians who owned their property at the time of passage and who have seen the real value of their property increase exponentially over the past four decades.  But it has also shifted the burden over to newer property owners, either through higher tax valuations for newer construction or through higher purchase prices for lower taxed properties.

The biggest victim in all of this is a public education system that now ranks 50th in the country and a tax base that is not being taxed on actual property value, but on arbitrary government labelling of taxable amount with zero regard to actual value.  So yes, people like San Fran Nan own multiple mansions in California, but face tax bills that are only a small fraction of actual value, while blighted areas can't find anyone willing to build on vacant lots because their property taxes will be based on actual value.

I am all for low taxes, but that should be for everyone across the board, not just those who managed to be grandfathered in.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline Smokin Joe

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Prop 13 can provide a huge relief when your property values go up.  Let's say you purchased a house in the late '70s for $50K.  According to Prop 13, the highest taxable valuation allowable 42 years later would be  $115,000, even though the actual value may be five times that.  But for the new property owner who builds a comparable $575K house today, his tax bill is five times higher than the other home owner.  In addition, his annual increase will also be five times higher than the first owner.

But lets say the new builder instead buys the first house for $575K (taxable value $115K), tears down the entire house except for one wall, and then uses that wall as part of the construction for a $5 million mansion, his property tax will still be based on $115K of value.

In other words, if you have a ton of money at your disposal, you can build a mansion, and get away with paying a paltry amount of property tax.  And the fact that your property has such a low tax amount on it while your neighbor who didn't leave a wall up on his new mansion ends up paying taxes on $5 million value (43 times more).

The law is a boon for established Californians who owned their property at the time of passage and who have seen the real value of their property increase exponentially over the past four decades.  But it has also shifted the burden over to newer property owners, either through higher tax valuations for newer construction or through higher purchase prices for lower taxed properties.

The biggest victim in all of this is a public education system that now ranks 50th in the country and a tax base that is not being taxed on actual property value, but on arbitrary government labelling of taxable amount with zero regard to actual value.  So yes, people like San Fran Nan own multiple mansions in California, but face tax bills that are only a small fraction of actual value, while blighted areas can't find anyone willing to build on vacant lots because their property taxes will be based on actual value.

I am all for low taxes, but that should be for everyone across the board, not just those who managed to be grandfathered in.
See, I know people, now retired, who bought their (nice, brick) homes for 5-7K after WWII, who have been hit with "market based" reassessments repeatedly to the point their homes are now valued at 50-100X what they paid for them, and taxed based on a market value that, frankly has no meaning unless the house is actually on the market. That market, in a town where property values are fundamentally tied to global commodity prices, fluctuates as much as those prices, but somehow that "market value" assessment never goes down, when the actual value of the property if sold would go up or down with housing demand as those commodity prices go up and down.

My home was bought during a downturn for the low 30s, had been purchased prior to that for 90K, (many years ago) and is now "market valued"  at about 280K (with the crash in oil prices might bring half that), but the values here for tax purposes have only gone up.  If I was one to move a lot, or play the boom/bust, I suppose I could have made more money buying and selling real estate than drilling holes in it.

We sought to eliminate the property tax on residential real estate a few years ago, and overnight some astroturf organizations popped up, backed mainly by teacher's organizations and lied flat out about how that would work. They had all the slick advertising., bought a bunch of air time, invoked "for the children" and didn't miss a lick in convincing enough people to not vote for the measure, even though it would have funded the public schools just fine. I just hope they are paying heavier taxes too. After the election, those organizations evaporated.

The fundamental weakness in the measure was the seeming 'gray area' around farms which have incorporated, something necessary to be able to pass along a couple million dollars worth of equipment and the land to farm with it, otherwise taxes would take a farm built over generations and make it economically nonviable overnight if the owner passed away in an accident., not to mention making other tax advantages available that an individual would not have. Although proponents of the measure tried to explain that agricultural real estate would be included, that was shouted down by the panic mongers of the NEA and others who wanted to maintain their hands in the pockets of every property owner in the state.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2020, 07:02:09 pm by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline PeteS in CA

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Prop 13 does not simply benefit a person/family who owned their homes when it passed. In a rising market a more recent purchaser whose first-year assessment is their purchase price starts benefiting from the limit on assessment increases the second full year they paid their property taxes (that is what I meant when I said that I've experienced both side of the "inequality). The other major change with Prop 13 that benefits every home owner from the day they purchased (or from the day Prop 13 was finally allowed to go into effect) is that it capped the tax rate.

IOW, prior to the passage of Prop 13, home owners were being hit by a double whammy:

* Property tax rates could be increased without any limit other than what a simple majority would vote in;

* A rising market that along with "creative" assessors increased assessments while the owners' ability to pay did not increase proportionally; the worst hit by this were seniors on fixed incomes during the inflationary 1970s.

I've lived in CA since before Prop 13 went into effect. I've seen governments burn hundreds of thousands or millions of $$ trying to overturn Prop 13. I've seen greedbag teachers unions force schools to divert facility maintenance and student supplies $$ to teachers' salaries, bennies, and pensions (government-funded pensions, not split contributions 401Ks!). I've seen greedbag teachers unions make it all but impossible to fire sex-abusers who aren't convicted and sent to jail/prison, let alone fire incompetents! *****rollingeyes***** I've seen counties and cities give their greedbag employees' unions sweetheart salaries, bennies, and pensions (government-funded pensions ...) deals. Is it even possible to lay off government employees, like it is in industry? *****rollingeyes***** Over 40 years of post-Prop-13 profligacy instead of careful fiscal management.

So if governments are pinched, too damn bad.
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Prop 13 does not simply benefit a person/family who owned their homes when it passed. In a rising market a more recent purchaser whose first-year assessment is their purchase price starts benefiting from the limit on assessment increases the second full year they paid their property taxes (that is what I meant when I said that I've experienced both side of the "inequality). The other major change with Prop 13 that benefits every home owner from the day they purchased (or from the day Prop 13 was finally allowed to go into effect) is that it capped the tax rate.

IOW, prior to the passage of Prop 13, home owners were being hit by a double whammy:

* Property tax rates could be increased without any limit other than what a simple majority would vote in;

* A rising market that along with "creative" assessors increased assessments while the owners' ability to pay did not increase proportionally; the worst hit by this were seniors on fixed incomes during the inflationary 1970s.

I've lived in CA since before Prop 13 went into effect. I've seen governments burn hundreds of thousands or millions of $$ trying to overturn Prop 13. I've seen greedbag teachers unions force schools to divert facility maintenance and student supplies $$ to teachers' salaries, bennies, and pensions (government-funded pensions, not split contributions 401Ks!). I've seen greedbag teachers unions make it all but impossible to fire sex-abusers who aren't convicted and sent to jail/prison, let alone fire incompetents! *****rollingeyes***** I've seen counties and cities give their greedbag employees' unions sweetheart salaries, bennies, and pensions (government-funded pensions ...) deals. Is it even possible to lay off government employees, like it is in industry? *****rollingeyes***** Over 40 years of post-Prop-13 profligacy instead of careful fiscal management.

So if governments are pinched, too damn bad.
The last time a certain group was having serious racially motivated riots, an advanced group of HS freshmen started their Algebra II class with a teacher who couldn't work the problems. Hang the fact that the county NEA didn't want any advanced anything, this guy wasn't going anywhere. After all, he was one of the demographic that was doing the rioting. We taught ourselves, as best we could, but it left a gap in my mathematical education I am still dealing with on occasion 60 years later. For all I care, the NEA can go suck itself up until it winks out like a snake eating its tail. And people who hide their incompetence behind some demographic excuse to remain employed can rot in Hell.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online DB

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Prop 13 can provide a huge relief when your property values go up.  Let's say you purchased a house in the late '70s for $50K.  According to Prop 13, the highest taxable valuation allowable 42 years later would be  $115,000, even though the actual value may be five times that.  But for the new property owner who builds a comparable $575K house today, his tax bill is five times higher than the other home owner.  In addition, his annual increase will also be five times higher than the first owner.

But lets say the new builder instead buys the first house for $575K (taxable value $115K), tears down the entire house except for one wall, and then uses that wall as part of the construction for a $5 million mansion, his property tax will still be based on $115K of value.

In other words, if you have a ton of money at your disposal, you can build a mansion, and get away with paying a paltry amount of property tax.  And the fact that your property has such a low tax amount on it while your neighbor who didn't leave a wall up on his new mansion ends up paying taxes on $5 million value (43 times more).

The law is a boon for established Californians who owned their property at the time of passage and who have seen the real value of their property increase exponentially over the past four decades.  But it has also shifted the burden over to newer property owners, either through higher tax valuations for newer construction or through higher purchase prices for lower taxed properties.

The biggest victim in all of this is a public education system that now ranks 50th in the country and a tax base that is not being taxed on actual property value, but on arbitrary government labelling of taxable amount with zero regard to actual value.  So yes, people like San Fran Nan own multiple mansions in California, but face tax bills that are only a small fraction of actual value, while blighted areas can't find anyone willing to build on vacant lots because their property taxes will be based on actual value.

I am all for low taxes, but that should be for everyone across the board, not just those who managed to be grandfathered in.

No that isn't true on at least two counts.

First, if there's a new buyer the tax base is reset to current market value. It does not retain the previous owners tax rate. The primary exception to that is parents passing on the property to their children. Which is particularly important for farmers and ranchers.

Second, any improvements, particularly if they require a permit, get accessed at current market value. But only the improvements. The land and the prior improvements remain at the prior rate. If you build a mansion the starting tax base for the newly added improvements will be based on what the current market value is (and cost) of those improvements at the time it is completed regardless if you leave one wall or not.

The one wall remaining rule is regarding permit costs. A remodel is permitted at a different rate than new construction. By leaving a wall it can be weaseled in as a "remodel" in some cities. New construction is significantly more expensive than remodel permits. Whatever you remodel will be accessed at current market value and added to your tax base.

Repairing your home instead of remodeling it isn't normally reassessed and requires different permits.

Editing to add:

And regarding the education system that's bullshit. The per child public education spending in California is over $11,000 a year (2016 numbers, that's over $61 a school day per kid). Teachers benefits far exceed virtually anything in the private sector. California's teachers unions and leftest screwed up the state's education.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2020, 12:00:55 am by DB »

Online Hoodat

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No that isn't true on at least two counts.

First, if there's a new buyer the tax base is reset to current market value. It does not retain the previous owners tax rate. The primary exception to that is parents passing on the property to their children. Which is particularly important for farmers and ranchers.

Second, any improvements, particularly if they require a permit, get accessed at current market value. But only the improvements. The land and the prior improvements remain at the prior rate. If you build a mansion the starting tax base for the newly added improvements will be based on what the current market value is (and cost) of those improvements at the time it is completed regardless if you leave one wall or not.

The one wall remaining rule is regarding permit costs. A remodel is permitted at a different rate than new construction. By leaving a wall it can be weaseled in as a "remodel" in some cities. New construction is significantly more expensive than remodel permits. Whatever you remodel will be accessed at current market value and added to your tax base.

Repairing your home instead of remodeling it isn't normally reassessed and requires different permits.

Thanks for the info.  But it is still possible to buy an old house, wait a year, and then remodel, leaving one wall intact, and come out paying less taxes off the bat than the 'new' house is worth.  Keep in mind that I am not knocking Prop 13.  I am only pointing out that there can be unintended consequences.  People will always act in their best interest (First Rule of Economics).


And regarding the education system that's bullshit. The per child public education spending in California is over $11,000 a year (2016 numbers, that's over $61 a school day per kid). Teachers benefits far exceed virtually anything in the private sector. California's teachers unions and leftest screwed up the state's education.

Their spending is still below the national average, but I agree wholeheartedly about the unions and leftist politicians.  California is a slave state.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Online Hoodat

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See, I know people, now retired, who bought their (nice, brick) homes for 5-7K after WWII, who have been hit with "market based" reassessments repeatedly to the point their homes are now valued at 50-100X what they paid for them, and taxed based on a market value that, frankly has no meaning unless the house is actually on the market. That market, in a town where property values are fundamentally tied to global commodity prices, fluctuates as much as those prices, but somehow that "market value" assessment never goes down, when the actual value of the property if sold would go up or down with housing demand as those commodity prices go up and down.

Here in Georgia, persons 65 or older get a significant exemption off their property taxes.


My home was bought during a downturn for the low 30s, had been purchased prior to that for 90K, (many years ago) and is now "market valued"  at about 280K (with the crash in oil prices might bring half that), but the values here for tax purposes have only gone up.  If I was one to move a lot, or play the boom/bust, I suppose I could have made more money buying and selling real estate than drilling holes in it.

We have the same government problem here.  The bottom line is that government wants the money and will come up with whatever valuation they need to get it.  A decade or so ago, Fulton County (Democrat run) jacked up everyone's property values just because they needed the revenue.  Many homeowners (me included) challenged it because their valuation far exceeded market value.  State law protects the homeowner here.  If you win (which most people do), your taxes are frozen at the old rate for three years, at which point the county can reassess again.

Twice in the last ten years, I have beaten this back, once directly, and once by class action.  But when your next door neighbor's house sells for x-amount, then you can fully expect your valuation to match it the next time the county is allowed to reassess.  Personally, I think that is fair even though it hurts quite a lot.  But I still don't like it.  Cobb County (Republican run) next door has property taxes half of what they are here, and their schools are considerably better.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

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Thanks for the info.  But it is still possible to buy an old house, wait a year, and then remodel, leaving one wall intact, and come out paying less taxes off the bat than the 'new' house is worth.  Keep in mind that I am not knocking Prop 13.  I am only pointing out that there can be unintended consequences.  People will always act in their best interest (First Rule of Economics).


Their spending is still below the national average, but I agree wholeheartedly about the unions and leftist politicians.  California is a slave state.

To my knowledge it makes no difference if it is a "remodel" or new construction regarding taxes. Either gets assessed at the current market rate when completed. It is the permits to do the "remodeling" that is less money with one wall standing. And permits in parts of California are big bucks. The last house I built in 2004 cost $40k just for the permits.