Trump says he's considering Snowden pardon

[catfish1957]

Yeah. I really want to go on record with my position.

Without the Patriot Act, the massive spying programs against Americans may never have taken place. And no whistleblower, or traitor, as you call him, would have come forth.

No useless and overreaching departments like TSA and Homeland Security.

The American government resoundingly betrayed, and still are betraying, the American people.

A useless war in Iraq. An ongoing useless war in F ghanistan. Wars that didn't likely get thousands killed. They did get thousands killed. And still are.

There are SIXTEEN intelligence agencies in the U.S.

For them to spy on me, or you, is unforgivable. Period.

Agree 100%, but you are missing the point.  There is a huge difference in incompetency of government versus  an indiviudal who purposely, intentionally, and malicioulsy gave  out our natinal secuirty secrets to our sworn enemies.  Snowden is no hero.  Intelligence Agents likely died from his dirty deed.  IMO- that puts him on an entirely higher different despicable level than our govenment.. 

[EdinVA]

Agree 100%, but you are missing the point.  There is a huge difference in incompetency of government versus  an indiviudal who purposely, intentionally, and malicioulsy gave  out our natinal secuirty secrets to our sworn enemies.  Snowden is no hero.  Intelligence Agents likely died from his dirty deed.  IMO- that puts him on an entirely higher different despicable level than our govenment..

I have never read/heard of anyone being killed because of the Snowden release...

[catfish1957]

I have never read/heard of anyone being killed because of the Snowden release...

And you never will for obvious reasons.

[EdinVA]

And you never will for obvious reasons.

Disagree.... The media salivates over this stuff and it would leak out...   Case in point....

Robert Hanssen American law enforcement agent and spyRobert Hanssen, in full Robert Philip Hanssen,  (born April 18, 1944, Chicago, Illinois, U.S.), agent of the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) who was one of the Soviet Union’s and Russia’s most valuable double agents and the most damaging spy ever to penetrate the FBI.
https://www.britannica.com/biography/Robert-Hanssen

Consequences....

Well, we're talking about, first of all, the names of about 50 people within the soviet system that were either recruited by the U.S. to spy for us, or were being recruited. At least three of those were executed, including Dimitri Polyakov who was the greatest agent the U.S. ever had inside that system and did invaluable service for the U.S. during in the missile crisis with Cuba, up through the Vietnam War. This is the first thing he gave up on his first trip to see the Russians.
The second time he went in to see Russians in 1985, he gave up two more men who were working within the KGB in Washington, it was the first penetration the FBI had ever managed of this. He gave away technological secrets at the very moment when there was a coup of… Gorbachev was detained in the Soviet Union, some old liners in the KGB were trying to overthrow him. They had their hands on a nuclear football, and he was blinding the United States to the military and government communication that would tell us what was going on.


https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/damage-assessment-convicted-spy-robert-hanssen

[bigheadfred]

Agree 100%, but you are missing the point.  There is a huge difference in incompetency of government versus  an indiviudal who purposely, intentionally, and malicioulsy gave  out our natinal secuirty secrets to our sworn enemies.  Snowden is no hero.  Intelligence Agents likely died from his dirty deed.  IMO- that puts him on an entirely higher different despicable level than our govenment..

I get your point. 

I simply disagree that his action(s) "puts him on an entirely higher different despicable level than our govenment".

Sure, Snowden broke laws. Civil laws.

He took an oath to protect NSA secrets.

He also swore to uphold the Constitution.

Tough choice.

Take a look at the history of clemency, amnesty, pardons, or immunity types of things. Start with Nixon and move on to draft dodgers, up the line.

Iran-Contra. See what I am getting at? How many people died because of Kaspar Weinberger's actions? Yet... Before Weinberger could be tried on the original charges, he received a pardon on December 24, 1992, from then President Bush.

[Fishrrman]

I don't see Snowden as a hero,
but
I don't see Snowden as a traitor, either.

I do see him as someone who performed a necessary service to the citizens of this country.

I chose the phrase "citizens of this country" carefully.
Snowden's "revelations" did not benefit the military, politicians, nor the deep state.
But they DID pull the covers off some of the less-than-virtuous goin's on regarding U.S. spying on its own citizenry.

I've got no problems with that.
None at all.

[sneakypete]

@EdinVA

For me, it comes down to a simple question.  Either Clapper and Co. or Snowden are lying...

No,there is also the possibility/PROBABILITY they were both lying.

Clapper stated under oath that the NSA was NOT spying on Americans and Snowden says they are.
Clapper said Snowden did NOT escalated his concerns, Snowden said he did.

See the above.

The feds do NOT have unlimited authority, to include the NSA so when the deep state runs amok and is protecting itself, what do you do?  Stick your head in the sand and keep cashing the checks....

Agreed,but that does NOT mean they do NOT have the authority to do this when warranted.

Also,the intelligence world is a pretty "murky" place,and that is putting it politely. You get into code word  investigations,and you are literally barred from telling anyone what you were doing or anything about the program you are protecting.

I was personally involved with a program widely considered to be "illegal" in Asia. My unit was supposed to be conducting operations in VN,but were actually operating in Laos,Cambodia,and North Vietnam. We were gathering intelligence of enemy troop movements and capabilities,calling in air strikes on them,conducting "POW Snatches" of NVA soldiers,rescuing American pilots that had been shot down,etc,etc,etc.

We were NOT doing this on our own,but at the direction of the Pentagram and the White House. Was it illegal under international law? You bet. We were told when we volunteered for SOG that we would be going in without any US ID,and if captured,the Army would say we were deserters or just AWOL. We could even be executed legally under international law as spys,and some of us were.

SOME people want to whine about this,yet not whisper a word of protest about the North Vietnamese also being there illegally.

Sometimes governments MUST do things that are technically "questionable" or even illegal under international law in order to save the lives of their military members and to win the damn war.

This has been true of EVERY war since the first war was fought under international laws.

There are also situations were exposing one covert program to the enemy also risks exposing another that is of great benefit.  So the negotiators and politicians lie. Big Whoop. This ain't kindergarten. This is real life where real lives are at risk,as well as the survival of nations.

[txradioguy]

@catfish1957

@LegalAmerican

I had a Top Secret Crypto clearance while in the army,and a "code word clearance",which gives all access to a specific program.

The only place I ever heard of a "Q clearance" was in James Bond movies.

Never heard of it myself.  Doesn't mean it doesn't exist in some dark corner of the Pentagon for people with a need to know level of access.  Then again if it's CIA related it could give the coffee service at Langley access to the break rooms to refill the pods for the Keirug.

[sneakypete]

Never heard of it myself.  Doesn't mean it doesn't exist in some dark corner of the Pentagon for people with a need to know level of access.

 

@txradioguy

True. Especially if they were to screw up and put some sick,trouble making person with a twisted sense of humor in charge of code words.

Somebody like me,for example.

 

Then again if it's CIA related it could give the coffee service at Langley access to the break rooms to refill the pods for the Keirug.

See the above. She would be lucky to not have to answer as "Scooby Doo" and not have to do a voice imitation and "Scooby" quote to get to the coffee pot.

I am an acquired taste.