American Conservatism Is Fiddling While Rome Burns

[XenaLee]

Well, I can say there haven't been any Mod reports filed on it....

Nah.   No need.

[DCPatriot]

I've been watching this thread scroll up and down my Unread Posts page for days....afraid to see what's going on in here.....

 

LOL!  I've purposefully stayed out of it.   (Although, @Right_in_Virginia was kicking ass and taking names...again --sigh!!)

Nobody is going to give an inch.  And some birds just keep preening.

[Absalom]

Really?!? You’re calling for things to be banned here because they offend your sensibilities?
Or you could just pass on by this bad boy.  Boom!  No harm, no foul!
Remember the good ol days?  Something was on the tv you didn’t like?  Why, you’d just go to another channel!  Crazy, right?

--------------------------------
@ Axel, a thought for you.
It appears you're trying to exchange ideas yet hitting a concrete wall.
Should be no surprise as closed minds treat contrary opinions as mortal enemies.
So here's an opinion for you.
The republicrat mindset shares the same essence as that of democrats, for a direct
reason; as neither is motivated by principle; only politics.
Further, their political motor is fueled by the economic wants of their class supporters.
As a consequence, there is no place for Principled Conservatism in our governance. But why?
Because it was birthed in ancient times which had a far greater grasp of the vital importance
of the spiritual in the life of Man.
Yet that all faded away during the French Enlightenment which asserted that material betterment was Man's higher calling.
Mankind has been experiencing the impact of that nostrum for some 250 years and his
world is hardly better off for it, as the tale of history remains mute testament.

[PeteS in CA]

Pecan pie ... lemon meringue pie ... pecan pie ... lemon meringue pie ... pecan pie ... lemon meringue pie ... pecan pie ... lemon meringue pie ...

[Cyber Liberty]

[Right_in_Virginia]

Really?!? You’re calling for things to be banned here because they offend your sensibilities?

Actually @Axeslinger I was responding to your sensibilities.  I thought your upset over this discussion was sincere and just threw out the first remedy I could think of.  Of course I don't want anything banned, but I also don't want you in distress.

I'll end this catch-22 by withdrawing my suggestion.   

[Cyber Liberty]

[240B]

Exactly:
We are not 'fiddling' (well yes we are, a little fiddle never hurt nothing) we are just waiting...

[Fishrrman]

bele wrote:
"Excuse me but this country was founded upon conservative principles!!!"

Off-topic replay that going to rub folks here the wrong way, but i'm posting it anyway.
I usually like what you write, bele, but I think you could be wrong here.

"Dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal..."
... is NOT a "conservative" principle -- at least not when Jefferson wrote it.

Au contraire, it was a radically liberal and "enlightened" idea at that time.

And... it has a lot to do with why all the nations of The West are facing ruin today...

[Cyber Liberty]

bele wrote:
"Excuse me but this country was founded upon conservative principles!!!"

Off-topic replay that going to rub folks here the wrong way, but i'm posting it anyway.
I usually like what you write, bele, but I think you could be wrong here.

"Dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal..."
... is NOT a "conservative" principle -- at least not when Jefferson wrote it.

Au contraire, it was a radically liberal and "enlightened" idea at that time.

And... it has a lot to do with why all the nations of The West are facing ruin today...

That was when "Liberal" meant conservative, and "Conservative" meant Tudor.

[Fishrrman]

xena wrote:
"The brand has been soiled and all but demolished.   We need a new brand."

I agree.
In my posts here for the past several years, I generally use the term, "traditional-minded Americans".

Does that fit with what you're thinking..?

[Axeslinger]

Actually @Axeslinger I was responding to your sensibilities.  I thought your upset over this discussion was sincere and just threw out the first remedy I could think of.  Of course I don't want anything banned, but I also don't want you in distress.

I'll end this catch-22 by withdrawing my suggestion.   

@Right_in_Virginia
I wasn’t upset.   I was offering you a path forward without considering your fellow Briefers traitors to THE cause.   Because the only thing they may be traitors to are to YOUR cause and the two are not mutually inclusive.  But there are none so blind as those who will not see.

[Right_in_Virginia]

@Right_in_Virginia
I wasn’t upset.   I was offering you a path forward without considering your fellow Briefers traitors to THE cause.   Because the only thing they may be traitors to are to YOUR cause and the two are not mutually inclusive.  But there are none so blind as those who will not see.

Some day we should have a beer and clear all the stale air between us.  @Axeslinger   I think we'd get along much better than expected.   

[Cyber Liberty]

Some day we should have a beer and clear all the stale air between us.  @Axeslinger   I think we'd get along much better than expected.   

@Axeslinger @Right_in_Virginia

I am looking forward to that, because it's true.

[libertybele]

bele wrote:
"Excuse me but this country was founded upon conservative principles!!!"

Off-topic replay that going to rub folks here the wrong way, but i'm posting it anyway.
I usually like what you write, bele, but I think you could be wrong here.

"Dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal..."
... is NOT a "conservative" principle -- at least not when Jefferson wrote it.

Au contraire, it was a radically liberal and "enlightened" idea at that time.

And... it has a lot to do with why all the nations of The West are facing ruin today...

For what it's worth @Fishrrman   http://www.whatwouldthefoundersthink.com/what-were-the-founding-principles

[libertybele]

I see this as two seperate issues.

1. A holding action in order to live and fight another day.

2. Educating folks and promoting consevertism.


Not going to browbeat anyone.

 

[Axeslinger]

Some day we should have a beer and clear all the stale air between us.  @Axeslinger   I think we'd get along much better than expected.   

@Right_in_Virginia
See...but once upon a time, I WAS one of those that you implied was a traitor to the cause...and I haven’t forgotten it.  It’s how you came to be on my radar in the first place. And golly, there’s just nothing quite like implying a veteran who loves this country is a traitor. It kinda gets stuck in my craw.

BUT

I will take your comment in the spirit in which it was intended and wish you well.

[Absalom]

bele wrote:
"Excuse me but this country was founded upon conservative principles!!!"
Off-topic replay that going to rub folks here the wrong way, but i'm posting it anyway.
I usually like what you write, bele, but I think you could be wrong here.
"Dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal..."
... is NOT a "conservative" principle -- at least not when Jefferson wrote it.
Au contraire, it was a radically liberal and "enlightened" idea at that time.
And... it has a lot to do with why all the nations of The West are facing ruin today...

---------------------------
@ Fish, insightful and well done.
Some 2,500 years past, Plato asserted the Soul of Man defined his
uniqueness for all eternity and as such we are emphatically not equal.
The Enlightenment slogan of 'Egalitarianism' spawned the notion of the
equality of Man, which is simply a political slogan of horse manure.
Jefferson was a great man but like all had his foibles, one being his fondness
for French values and women as he was our Minister to France in 1785-89.

[roamer_1]

---------------------------
@ Fish, insightful and well done.
Some 2,500 years past, Plato asserted the Soul of Man defined his
uniqueness for all eternity and as such we are emphatically not equal.
The Enlightenment slogan of 'Egalitarianism' spawned the notion of the
equality of Man, which is simply a political slogan of horse manure.
Jefferson was a great man but like all had his foibles, one being his fondness
for French values and women as he was our Minister to France in 1785-89.

I will counter your statement: In fact, that all men are created equal in the sight of God, and under the law, is a profoundly Conservative position. It is not a measure of the man, but a measure of the system. The phrase is meant to portray blind justice under the law, and the casting down of artificial obstacles, allowing a man to reach for his own potential with no intrusion or imposition by others.

[Bigun]

I will counter your statement: In fact, that all men are created equal in the sight of God, and under the law, is a profoundly Conservative position. It is not a measure of the man, but a measure of the system. The phrase is meant to portray blind justice under the law, and the casting down of artificial obstacles, allowing a man to reach for his own potential with no intrusion or imposition by others.

 

[Absalom]

I will counter you each and every one of us, the astonshing r statement: In fact, that all men are created equal in the sight of God, and under the law, is a profoundly Conservative position. It is not a measure of the man, but a measure of the system. The phrase is meant to portray blind justice under the law, and the casting down of artificial obstacles, allowing a man to reach for his own potential with no intrusion or imposition by others.

----------------------------
@ Roamer, fair enough as all are entitled, yet Plato speaks for me.
In his Republic, he defined the Soul (Psyche) of Man as that unique
attribute that differentiates each/every one of us for all eternity
and is the reservoir of of Man's creative impulse.
The Art of the world is mute testament to that reality.

[roamer_1]

----------------------------
@ Roamer, fair enough as all are entitled, yet Plato speaks for me.
In his Republic, he defined the Soul (Psyche) of Man as that unique
attribute that differentiates each/every one of us for all eternity
and is the reservoir of of Man's creative impulse.
The Art of the world is mute testament to that reality.

Right. No one is disputing the individual uniqueness of every soul. That is not in question, nor is it the point. The veritable point of 'all men are created equal' is not egalitarian, as it does nothing to assure equality of outcome, but merely the equality of opportunity and fair treatment under the law.

These are both tremendously important virtues, if they can be called virtues in an abstract such as government,  and are the primacy upon which our nation is founded. (see DoI, 'created equal' is first in precedence, and is that endowment which hinges all rights...).

[Absalom]

Right. No one is disputing the individual uniqueness of every soul. That is not in question, nor is it the point. The veritable point of 'all men are created equal' is not egalitarian, as it does nothing to assure equality of outcome, but merely the equality of opportunity and fair treatment under the law.
These are both tremendously important virtues, if they can be called virtues in an abstract such as government,  and are the primacy upon which our nation is founded. (see DoI, 'created equal' is first in precedence, and is that endowment which hinges all rights...).

-----------------------
Fair enough and well differentiated!

[Idiot]

That's right... Conservatism and Conservatives have NOTHING to do with what's going on.

Of course they don't as there are very few left.

[roamer_1]

Of course they don't as there are very few left.

I don't think that's true.