Author Topic: Stephen Moore’s Big Idea: Replace federal income tax with national sales tax  (Read 1101 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online EdinVA

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4,873
  • Gender: Male
Quote
Stephen Moore, a member of President Trump’s economic recovery task force and an economist at FreedomWorks, has a bold idea for how to reinvigorate the economy: abolish the federal income tax, and replace it with a national sales tax.
On the face of it, it may seem like a radical notion especially since essentially all Americans nowadays have grown up having a chunk of their income pulled out by the IRS every year. But Moore notes that the income tax is a relatively new invention in the U.S. -- having only been introduced in the early 20th century.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/stephen-moores-big-idea-replace-the-income-tax-with-national-sales-tax

This has been floated around before but worth considering..

Online mystery-ak

  • Owner
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 300,282
  • Gender: Female
Support the USO
Democrat Party...the Party of Infanticide

Online Applewood

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 10,182
This has been floated around before but worth considering..

A few dozen times that I can recall.  There have also been numerous other proposals -- fair tax, flat tax, Herman Cain's 9-9-9 plan, Ted Cruz's tax return on a postcard and so on.  But the bottom line is neither party wants to tamper with the IRS, let alone abolish it altogether.
"When I was a kid my parents moved a lot, but I always found them."
-Rodney Dangerfield

Online Fishrrman

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 22,782
  • Gender: Male
Never. Gonna. Happen.

Online Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 38,180
  • Gender: Male
  • The income tax: Root of all evil!
    • The FairTax Plan
Never. Gonna. Happen.

Not for so long as the Swamp critters can avoid it!  The current Marxist income tax affords them far too many opportunities for social engineering projects to be easily given up.

Something like the Fairtax would be rocket fuel for the US  Economy but that doesn't matter because they would lose their ability to manipulate folks if the did that.









Online Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 57,786
  • Gender: Male
  • Impeach Him Again! Harder!!!®
We need to re-coin the expression, "Press Bias" to "Media Bigotry."
I will NOT comply.
                          Castillo del Cyber! ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Online jmyrlefuller

  • J. Myrle Fuller
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 18,286
  • Gender: Male
    • Fullervision
A few dozen times that I can recall.  There have also been numerous other proposals -- fair tax, flat tax, Herman Cain's 9-9-9 plan, Ted Cruz's tax return on a postcard and so on.  But the bottom line is neither party wants to tamper with the IRS, let alone abolish it altogether.
The day you "abolish the IRS" is the day you eliminate taxation altogether—which of course will never happen. As long as there are taxes, there will be an IRS to collect them in some form.
"The people (...) have had enough of experts from organizations with acronyms, saying that they know what is best, and getting it consistently wrong." —Michael Gove

Online Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 57,786
  • Gender: Male
  • Impeach Him Again! Harder!!!®
The day you "abolish the IRS" is the day you eliminate taxation altogether—which of course will never happen. As long as there are taxes, there will be an IRS to collect them in some form.

Correct.  And, within 50 years of cancelling the income tax, there will be both a national sales tax, and an income tax.  Both.
We need to re-coin the expression, "Press Bias" to "Media Bigotry."
I will NOT comply.
                          Castillo del Cyber! ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Online Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 38,180
  • Gender: Male
  • The income tax: Root of all evil!
    • The FairTax Plan
The day you "abolish the IRS" is the day you eliminate taxation altogether—which of course will never happen. As long as there are taxes, there will be an IRS to collect them in some form.

Absolute Bovine Fecal Matter!   You do not know what you are talking about!

Under the Fairtax system taxes would be collected by the states and remitted directly to the US Treasury minus a set amount retained by the states for their trouble.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2020, 08:47:09 PM by Bigun »

Online Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 38,180
  • Gender: Male
  • The income tax: Root of all evil!
    • The FairTax Plan
Correct.  And, within 50 years of cancelling the income tax, there will be both a national sales tax, and an income tax.  Both.

You do not need to wait for that as it is in place today.  The so called corporate income tax, along with ALL the costs of complying with it are rolled up into the prices of everything produced in this country today and YOU pay them all when you buy any of those goods are services.

Online Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 57,786
  • Gender: Male
  • Impeach Him Again! Harder!!!®
You do not need to wait for that as it is in place today.  The so called corporate income tax, along with ALL the costs of complying with it are rolled up into the prices of everything produced in this country today and YOU pay them all when you buy any of those goods are services.

Correct.  It's already baked in the cake.
We need to re-coin the expression, "Press Bias" to "Media Bigotry."
I will NOT comply.
                          Castillo del Cyber! ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Online Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 38,180
  • Gender: Male
  • The income tax: Root of all evil!
    • The FairTax Plan
Correct.  It's already baked in the cake.

For so long as we continue to abide the Marxist income tax it is but the Fairax ends all of that.

Online jmyrlefuller

  • J. Myrle Fuller
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 18,286
  • Gender: Male
    • Fullervision
Absolute Bovine Fecal Matter!   You do not know what you are talking about!

Under the Fairtax system taxes would be collected by the states and remitted directly to the US Treasury minus a set amount retained by the states for their trouble.
And what department of the US Treasury will collect those taxes, again?

You guessed it—the IRS.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2020, 09:39:12 PM by jmyrlefuller »
"The people (...) have had enough of experts from organizations with acronyms, saying that they know what is best, and getting it consistently wrong." —Michael Gove

Online jmyrlefuller

  • J. Myrle Fuller
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 18,286
  • Gender: Male
    • Fullervision
Oh, and one more thing: do you really think it's such a great idea to have 50 little state IRSes decide they're going to play games with federal revenues? Imagine Andrew Cuomo deciding "well, we send too much money to the federal government anyway, so we're not going to send it until they do things our way."
"The people (...) have had enough of experts from organizations with acronyms, saying that they know what is best, and getting it consistently wrong." —Michael Gove

Online Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 38,180
  • Gender: Male
  • The income tax: Root of all evil!
    • The FairTax Plan
And what department of the US Treasury will collect those taxes, again?

You guessed it—the IRS.

Nope!  The Fairtax bill specifically requires the IRS disbanded and all of their records destroyed.

Online Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 38,180
  • Gender: Male
  • The income tax: Root of all evil!
    • The FairTax Plan
Oh, and one more thing: do you really think it's such a great idea to have 50 little state IRSes decide they're going to play games with federal revenues? Imagine Andrew Cuomo deciding "well, we send too much money to the federal government anyway, so we're not going to send it until they do things our way."

45 of the 50 states already have sales tax collection mechanisms in place and accommodating a NRST would require them to add a few lines of code to their software for which they would be well compensated.  And Yes, I'm  perfectly onboard with giving states more control over the feral government.

Online EdinVA

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4,873
  • Gender: Male
Aside the the governments insatiable desire to manipulate the population, think of all the lawyers and bean counters that would be out of business and the hell they would raise..

Online Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 38,180
  • Gender: Male
  • The income tax: Root of all evil!
    • The FairTax Plan
Aside the the governments insatiable desire to manipulate the population, think of all the lawyers and bean counters that would be out of business and the hell they would raise..

 :yowsa: Ain't it wonderful!

Offline Slide Rule

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,277
  • Gender: Male
There are many benefits of such a plan. One being a more even tax program to every financial class.

The downside is those folks in Washington. After you pass a Flat Tax they will certainly wish to retain the IRS
or reestablish it. That would be a double whammy. I know some have addressed this elsewhere but I don't
trust anyone when it comes to Money or Power.

Al
I am a White American, MAGA, 3% Neanderthal, & 97% Conservative.

1776 not 1619
Prosperity not Misery
Americanism not Globalism


Recommended
Edmund Burke, Reflections on the Revolution in France
Norman Davies, Europe: A History
Richard Feynman, The Feynman Lectures on Physics
Roger Penrose, The Road To Reality & The Emperor's New Mind
Karl Popper, An Open Society and Its Enemies & The Logic of Scientific Discovery
Lansing & Philbrick, Endurance: Shackleton's Incredible Voyage

Online Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 38,180
  • Gender: Male
  • The income tax: Root of all evil!
    • The FairTax Plan
There are many benefits of such a plan. One being a more even tax program to every financial class.

The downside is those folks in Washington. After you pass a Flat Tax they will certainly wish to retain the IRS
or reestablish it. That would be a double whammy. I know some have addressed this elsewhere but I don't
trust anyone when it comes to Money or Power.

Al

I have directly addressed it and will do so again for your benefit @Slide Rule

What is being proposed here is not ANY form of income tax but rather National Retail Sales Tax (NRST) that taxes New goods and services one time only at the point of retail sale. There would be no need for the goobermint to know even so much as one's name for it to operate and definitely no need for anything like the IRS. In fact, the legislation specifically does away with the IRS and requires the destruction of its records.

F R E E D O M ! ! !

Online Fishrrman

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 22,782
  • Gender: Male
In post #6 above, I said the present income tax will never be replaced by a sales tax.

But...
As soon as the transitional democrat-communists come to power, expect the passage of a "value-added tax" on most or all commercial transactions.

They'll start out modestly -- say, 15-20% -- but when the "transition period" ends, and the communists come into full-strength, expect that to be increased. I'll reckon 30% will be their starting point.

Along with that, I foresee a ban once again on the private ownership of gold -- it will either be turned in or they'll come a-searchin' for it, with little or no compensation to the [former] owners.

And along with gold, they may ban ownership of silver, as well (though I sense there will remain a healthy black market on the exchange of "small denomination" silver -- old, junk silver coins -- for goods and services, or for the new "blue buck" currency that will replace our current greenbacks).

Finally, there will be some kind of taxation of private investments. Certainly some kind of "wealth tax" upon the value of 401k's, IRA's, etc.

The communists will need to raise money to cover the collapse in normal tax revenues as businesses fail or are taken over.
They'll also need a way to maintain debt obligations.
HOWEVER -- I expect the "full" communists to simply renounce large portions of the debt, by saying that "it no longer exists".
Perhaps that portion of [former] U.S. securities owed to China will be "exchanged" for portions of land or even the establishment of Chinese bases on the American mainland. Don't put this past them.

If you are unwilling to look into the future to see what's coming, you're unable to fight to STOP it from happening.

"After Trump... the deluge."
« Last Edit: July 25, 2020, 10:08:42 AM by Fishrrman »

Online jmyrlefuller

  • J. Myrle Fuller
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 18,286
  • Gender: Male
    • Fullervision
Nope!  The Fairtax bill specifically requires the IRS disbanded and all of their records destroyed.
And another department will take its place and be functionally identical to the IRS. Because that's how government works.
"The people (...) have had enough of experts from organizations with acronyms, saying that they know what is best, and getting it consistently wrong." —Michael Gove

Online Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 38,180
  • Gender: Male
  • The income tax: Root of all evil!
    • The FairTax Plan
In post #6 above, I said the present income tax will never be replaced by a sales tax.

But...
As soon as the transitional democrat-communists come to power, expect the passage of a "value-added tax" on most or all commercial transactions.

They'll start out modestly -- say, 15-20% -- but when the "transition period" ends, and the communists come into full-strength, expect that to be increased. I'll reckon 30% will be their starting point.

Along with that, I foresee a ban once again on the private ownership of gold -- it will either be turned in or they'll come a-searchin' for it, with little or no compensation to the [former] owners.

And along with gold, they may ban ownership of silver, as well (though I sense there will remain a healthy black market on the exchange of "small denomination" silver -- old, junk silver coins -- for goods and services, or for the new "blue buck" currency that will replace our current greenbacks).

Finally, there will be some kind of taxation of private investments. Certainly some kind of "wealth tax" upon the value of 401k's, IRA's, etc.

The communists will need to raise money to cover the collapse in normal tax revenues as businesses fail or are taken over.
They'll also need a way to maintain debt obligations.
HOWEVER -- I expect the "full" communists to simply renounce large portions of the debt, by saying that "it no longer exists".
Perhaps that portion of [former] U.S. securities owed to China will be "exchanged" for portions of land or even the establishment of Chinese bases on the American mainland. Don't put this past them.

If you are unwilling to look into the future to see what's coming, you're unable to fight to STOP it from happening.

"After Trump... the deluge."

@Fisherman that is already in place today! That they call it a corporate income tax does not change the fact that it FUNCTIONS as a subtraction method VAT and consumers pay ALL of it, as well as all the costs of compliance, every time they purchase anything produced in this country.  It is a MAJOR reason that US made products have a difficult time competing in the world's markets.

Online Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 38,180
  • Gender: Male
  • The income tax: Root of all evil!
    • The FairTax Plan
And another department will take its place and be functionally identical to the IRS. Because that's how government works.

There would be absolutely nothing for them to do @jmyrlefuller

Online Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 38,180
  • Gender: Male
  • The income tax: Root of all evil!
    • The FairTax Plan
The fact that Steven Moore, a long time closet supporter of the Fairtax, has come out publically and said this is significant in and of itself.  I do not imagine that the president's conversations with the Vice President ( a strong supporter of the Fairtax when he was a member of congress) have neglected this subject.


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf