Author Topic: MLK: Good Guy or Bad?  (Read 3261 times)

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Offline sneakypete

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MLK: Good Guy or Bad?
« on: July 19, 2020, 03:39:48 pm »
Quote
The old timers were admirable for the sacrifices they made.


@Applewood

NOT that MoFo Martin Luther King,Jr. That SOB was a straight-up freaking con man and was pro-communist.

Quote
Then the two extortionists, Al and Jessie came along.  Now we have terrorists destroying our cities and businesses.  What was once a profile in courage is now a criminal enterprise.

Can't argue with that.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2020, 10:00:30 pm by Cyber Liberty »
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Offline Applewood

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Re: Re: Obituaries for 2020
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2020, 03:46:58 pm »


@Applewood

NOT that MoFo Martin Luther King,Jr. That SOB was a straight-up freaking con man and was pro-communist.
...

@sneakypete

The accusation that Dr. King was a communist started with the FBI which had been tasked with trying to discredit Dr. King as much as possible.   The accusation was unfounded.

Maybe you should read this:

https://gazette.com/news/righteous-martin-luther-king-was-slandered-as-a-communist-david-ramsey/article_aeeb29ac-c3ad-11ea-956e-e7ccd4fb0784.html

Offline catfish1957

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Re: Re: Obituaries for 2020
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2020, 03:53:37 pm »
@sneakypete

The accusation that Dr. King was a communist started with the FBI which had been tasked with trying to discredit Dr. King as much as possible.   The accusation was unfounded.

Maybe you should read this:

https://gazette.com/news/righteous-martin-luther-king-was-slandered-as-a-communist-david-ramsey/article_aeeb29ac-c3ad-11ea-956e-e7ccd4fb0784.html

Why don't you add the fact he was basically the Harvey Weinstein fo the civil right movement?  And as far as communism, there is a lot of anecdotal evidence that a lot of his activities were underwritten by Communist members. IMO ...where there's smoke there's fire. 

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/06/04/how-to-make-sense-of-the-shocking-new-mlk-documents-227042

I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline Applewood

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Re: Re: Obituaries for 2020
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2020, 04:18:11 pm »
Why don't you add the fact he was basically the Harvey Weinstein fo the civil right movement?  And as far as communism, there is a lot of anecdotal evidence that a lot of his activities were underwritten by Communist members. IMO ...where there's smoke there's fire. 

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/06/04/how-to-make-sense-of-the-shocking-new-mlk-documents-227042

Because none of that has been proven.  If you read the article cited in the link you quoted, it says these accusations of sexual misconduct are based on certain FBI documents.  Hoover had a vendetta against Dr. King and was looking for anything with which to smear him.  Presumably, many of these documents are based upon surveillance tapes, which are under seal for another seven years at least.  Without those tapes it would be difficult to prove what the documents claim. I would not be at all surprised, given the corruption of the FBI under Hoover at that time, if the documents turn out to be false once the tapes are released. And it's possible that the tapes will never be released.

As for Dr. King's alleged association with communist organizations, do you have anything to support that claim?  My tired old eyes don't see that claim mentioned in the Politico article you cited.

By the way, I do believe Dr. King cheated on his wife.  Whether he raped anyone or witnessed a rape but did nothing to stop it or actively encourage someone to rape a woman -- that part is not proven.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Re: Obituaries for 2020
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2020, 04:36:45 pm »
@sneakypete

The accusation that Dr. King was a communist started with the FBI which had been tasked with trying to discredit Dr. King as much as possible.   The accusation was unfounded.

Maybe you should read this:

https://gazette.com/news/righteous-martin-luther-king-was-slandered-as-a-communist-david-ramsey/article_aeeb29ac-c3ad-11ea-956e-e7ccd4fb0784.html

@Applewood

Quote
“To be communist is to be an atheist. You don’t believe in God. And what that did for Martin Luther King was rob him of any kind of moral authority. To say he was a communist, that was to say he was immoral.”

Uh,huh. THIS,written about a black preacher that liked to get drunk and beat white whores that also plagiarized his doctoral thesis.

Good catch!

He was obviously a very moral man for a preacher.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Re: Obituaries for 2020
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2020, 04:40:26 pm »
Because none of that has been proven. If you read the article cited in the link you quoted, it says these accusations of sexual misconduct are based on certain FBI documents. 

@Applewood 

Good point! The Feebs ALWAYS lie,and you can ALWAYS trust a drunken,womanizing,woman beating preacher who cheated to get his degree.



Quote
Hoover had a vendetta against Dr. King


He hated communists.

 
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Offline Applewood

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Re: Re: Obituaries for 2020
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2020, 05:21:54 pm »

He hated communists.

Maybe.  But there is no proof that Dr. King was a communist or that he sexually assaulted anyone.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Re: Obituaries for 2020
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2020, 05:31:38 pm »
Maybe.  But there is no proof that Dr. King was a communist or that he sexually assaulted anyone.

@Applewood

There is no negative truth you would be willing to believe about him,is there?
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Offline catfish1957

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Re: Re: Obituaries for 2020
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2020, 05:41:48 pm »
@Applewood

There is no negative truth you would be willing to believe about him,is there?

And still there is a holiday named specifically  for him, but not George Washington.
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Re: Obituaries for 2020
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2020, 05:58:58 pm »
And still there is a holiday named specifically  for him, but not George Washington.

@catfish1957

A finer display of racism has never existed.
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Offline jmyrlefuller

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Re: Re: Obituaries for 2020
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2020, 07:29:36 pm »
Because none of that has been proven.  If you read the article cited in the link you quoted, it says these accusations of sexual misconduct are based on certain FBI documents.  Hoover had a vendetta against Dr. King and was looking for anything with which to smear him.  Presumably, many of these documents are based upon surveillance tapes, which are under seal for another seven years at least.  Without those tapes it would be difficult to prove what the documents claim. I would not be at all surprised, given the corruption of the FBI under Hoover at that time, if the documents turn out to be false once the tapes are released. And it's possible that the tapes will never be released.

As for Dr. King's alleged association with communist organizations, do you have anything to support that claim?  My tired old eyes don't see that claim mentioned in the Politico article you cited.

By the way, I do believe Dr. King cheated on his wife.  Whether he raped anyone or witnessed a rape but did nothing to stop it or actively encourage someone to rape a woman -- that part is not proven.
Hoover had a vendetta against just about everybody.

I find it ironic that for all the ranting Pete has made about John G. Roberts being a closeted homosexual, he believes the word of one of the foremost members of the Velvet Mafia of his time in J. Edgar Hoover.
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Offline Applewood

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Re: Re: Obituaries for 2020
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2020, 08:26:05 pm »
@Applewood

There is no negative truth you would be willing to believe about him,is there?

I said previously that he cheated on his wife.  I believe that one was proven.   No doubt the man had failings. He was human after all and humans make mistakes.  But I do believe Dr. King did more good than bad and it is the good he did that I would rather remember. 

But as for the rest -- I'm not going to believe something that has not been proven.  You and I have been sparring for a long time on this forum.  You know that I used to work for attorneys.  In the legal profession, whether in civil or criminal matters, where there is an accusation, there had better be proof to back it up.  Otherwise, the case goes out the window.  I apply the same standard of proof to all the BS that we are bombarded with every day, particularly from the media, but also from ordinary people with blogs and other outlets who disseminate conspiracy claims for which they have no evidence to back them up. 

I find it funny that you assert that I won't believe anything negative about Dr. King.  Yet, if I were to make a claim about something bad involving Donald Trump, you would dismiss it out of hand regardless of any proof I were to offer.  So I would say you are hurling an accusation of prejudice against me that you have yourself.

In any event, this thread was meant to honor and remember the dead -- in this case, John Lewis -  not to argue over what amounts to unproven conspiracy theories about Dr. King.  Honor Mr. Lewis or don't honor him.  I don't care.  But let's respect @jmyrlefuller who runs this thread and get it back on track.

Offline EasyAce

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Re: Re: Obituaries for 2020
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2020, 08:48:41 pm »
I find it funny that you assert that I won't believe anything negative about Dr. King.  Yet, if I were to make a claim about something bad involving Donald Trump, you would dismiss it out of hand regardless of any proof I were to offer.
@Applewood
I've always found it intriguing, too, that people have selective views of the FBI's veracity based upon whether or not FBI findings can be married to their particular partisan preferences of the moment.

Since you raised the point in your context (and I've seen how true it is), I'm obliged to acknowledge that Dr. King cheated on one wife but a certain president has cheated on three. Yet to enough people it's that certain president who's only human (something enough of those folks didn't exactly rush to suggest regarding the previous impeached president---who cheated on one wife and committed three crimes trying to cover up at least one of those cheatings) while Dr. King thus becomes a scoundrel whose fighting of the good fight otherwise becomes null and void?

It's to wonder what would happen if there should come future revelations that John Lewis was "only human," after all. Would his critics and even enough saddened admirers proclaim that the years when he did fight the good fight against Jim Crow (before his Congressional career and its partisan rhetorical extremes) are rendered null and void likewise?


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Offline Applewood

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Re: Re: Obituaries for 2020
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2020, 09:04:14 pm »
And still there is a holiday named specifically  for him, but not George Washington.

Used to be a holiday for Washington.  Lincoln too.  Till some idiots in DC decided to combine the two into a Monday holiday for federal employees. 

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Re: Obituaries for 2020
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2020, 09:16:33 pm »
I said previously that he cheated on his wife.  I believe that one was proven.   No doubt the man had failings. He was human after all and humans make mistakes.  But I do believe Dr. King did more good than bad and it is the good he did that I would rather remember. 

But as for the rest -- I'm not going to believe something that has not been proven.  You and I have been sparring for a long time on this forum.  You know that I used to work for attorneys.  In the legal profession, whether in civil or criminal matters, where there is an accusation, there had better be proof to back it up.  Otherwise, the case goes out the window.  I apply the same standard of proof to all the BS that we are bombarded with every day, particularly from the media, but also from ordinary people with blogs and other outlets who disseminate conspiracy claims for which they have no evidence to back them up. 

I find it funny that you assert that I won't believe anything negative about Dr. King.  Yet, if I were to make a claim about something bad involving Donald Trump, you would dismiss it out of hand regardless of any proof I were to offer.  So I would say you are hurling an accusation of prejudice against me that you have yourself.

In any event, this thread was meant to honor and remember the dead -- in this case, John Lewis -  not to argue over what amounts to unproven conspiracy theories about Dr. King.  Honor Mr. Lewis or don't honor him.  I don't care.  But let's respect @jmyrlefuller who runs this thread and get it back on track.
I reckon we're going to disagree.
He was the educated, rational, well dressed front man for H. Rap Brown, Eldridge Cleaver, and Stokely Carmichael. He was the one who seemed reasonable, even erudite, while the others were in the background preaching looting and burning and hating on Honkies. Look where those others went, behind that curtain of respectability. The same is being done today behind the veil of "Peaceful protesters".
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline EasyAce

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Re: Re: Obituaries for 2020
« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2020, 09:48:15 pm »
I reckon we're going to disagree.
He was the educated, rational, well dressed front man for H. Rap Brown, Eldridge Cleaver, and Stokely Carmichael. He was the one who seemed reasonable, even erudite, while the others were in the background preaching looting and burning and hating on Honkies. Look where those others went, behind that curtain of respectability. The same is being done today behind the veil of "Peaceful protesters".
Brown and Carmichael actually had little to nothing to do with King. They were wheels in the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee (later renamed the Student National Coordinating Committee at Brown's insistence), entirely separate from King's Southern Christian Leadership Conference organisationally and philosophically. The early SNCC (when John Lewis was its chairman, and long before the group became a "Black Power" organisation) took part in the 1963 March on Washington, but the group didn't see eye to eye with either King's or other civil rights groups involved in the march.

King's wariness of the SNCC was documented well enough---including, curiously enough, in a 1966 Mad satire of Porgy & Bess called "Stokely & Tess," in which King is portrayed emphatically as standing athwart the Carmichael group. "Luther, baby," Carmichael says to King early in the piece, "you and your bunch have had it. I'm the future!" before denouncing King as an Uncle Tom in a satirical song lyric to "Summertime." (Brown succeeded Carmichael as the SNCC leader after Carmichael gave up the position to join the Black Panther Party, two years before he exiled himself to Africa.) The satire's writers finished the piece by having King and the lady co-protagonist singing a distinctly anti-Carmichael song to the tune of "It Ain't Necessarily So." They called it "It Ain't Necessarily Stoke."
« Last Edit: July 19, 2020, 09:50:29 pm by EasyAce »


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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Re: Obituaries for 2020
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2020, 10:17:38 pm »
Brown and Carmichael actually had little to nothing to do with King. They were wheels in the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee (later renamed the Student National Coordinating Committee at Brown's insistence), entirely separate from King's Southern Christian Leadership Conference organisationally and philosophically. The early SNCC (when John Lewis was its chairman, and long before the group became a "Black Power" organisation) took part in the 1963 March on Washington, but the group didn't see eye to eye with either King's or other civil rights groups involved in the march.

King's wariness of the SNCC was documented well enough---including, curiously enough, in a 1966 Mad satire of Porgy & Bess called "Stokely & Tess," in which King is portrayed emphatically as standing athwart the Carmichael group. "Luther, baby," Carmichael says to King early in the piece, "you and your bunch have had it. I'm the future!" before denouncing King as an Uncle Tom in a satirical song lyric to "Summertime." (Brown succeeded Carmichael as the SNCC leader after Carmichael gave up the position to join the Black Panther Party, two years before he exiled himself to Africa.) The satire's writers finished the piece by having King and the lady co-protagonist singing a distinctly anti-Carmichael song to the tune of "It Ain't Necessarily So." They called it "It Ain't Necessarily Stoke."
You don't have to do anything together to use the other as a smokescreen if the media is willing to look one way and not another. Which they often did. A kid from my High School was busted by the FBI for running with Rap Brown and Eldridge Cleaver, over the burning of Cambridge, MD. But up until his death it was MLK in the media, and after, he became the universal excuse for the violence, whether people were directly involved with him or not.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2020, 10:18:52 pm by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline EasyAce

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Re: Re: Obituaries for 2020
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2020, 01:19:58 am »
But up until his death it was MLK in the media, and after, he became the universal excuse for the violence, whether people were directly involved with him or not.
Some would dare call that blaming the victim.

Though I do remember that a good while before King's murder, those other groups with agendae far more extreme, and definitely on the side of the violence King denounced and strove against, began getting enough media traction that you could find enough people wondering aloud if King was becoming irrelevant, or at least considered a little too, shall we say, old fashioned for the militant new generation.


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Offline LegalAmerican

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Re: Re: Obituaries for 2020
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2020, 02:10:02 am »
@Applewood

Uh,huh. THIS,written about a black preacher that liked to get drunk and beat white whores that also plagiarized his doctoral thesis.

Good catch!

He was obviously a very moral man for a preacher.


Correct!  And that was not his name.  His dad recommended he use a better name, like KING.  His name was something like ED.  His name was never changed legally. He just started using it & when he was shot, he was with 3 whores and they moved his body to a more respectable place. He cheated on CORETTA...all the time.  Even his 'dream ' speech was plagiarized.  Can we remove his statue and his HOLIDAY? 

Offline EasyAce

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Re: Re: Obituaries for 2020
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2020, 02:51:10 am »

Correct!  And that was not his name.  His dad recommended he use a better name, like KING.  His name was something like ED.  His name was never changed legally. He just started using it & when he was shot . . .
False.

King was actually born Michael King, Jr.. His father was sent to Europe in 1934 by his church, for a meeting of the Baptist World Alliance. The elder King and others there with the Alliance saw enough of Nazism that 1) the BWA handed up a resolution saying, "This Congress deplores and condemns as a violation of the law of God the Heavenly Father, all racial animosity, and every form of oppression or unfair discrimination toward the Jews, toward coloured people, or toward subject races in any part of the world"; and, b) when the elder King returned home that August, after having visited assorted sites relevant to Martin Luther, he began to call himself Martin Luther King, Sr. and his son Martin Luther King, Jr.

King, Jr. in fact did change his name legally---right down to changing his birth certificate---in 1957.

He cheated on CORETTA...all the time.  Even his 'dream ' speech was plagiarized.
Well, now.

1) We have a sitting president who cheated on three wives and got elected anyway. Are we being very selective when it comes to whose adulteries must be forgiven and whose, eternally condemned? (He's an adulterer but he's our adulterer!) Isn't that a tack to which we object vehemently when the left deploys it (reference Clinton, Bill), as so often they have? Are we really still to argue that the right (in fact or by supposition) earns that pass because the culprit is (in fact or by supposition) of the right?

2) This may be the best commentary you'll ever see about King's plagiarism issues, from 1990:

. . . [N]either the [King Papers Project] editors nor those of us in the scholarly community who have reviewed their findings have any dependable explanation for why King did what he did, nor can they say how aware King was of having done wrong. There is no getting around the fact that the scale of King's unattributed borrowings -- almost word-for-word copying of sentences and whole paragraphs without benefit of quotation marks on scores of occasions, often without minimal footnoting -- is extensive and substantial. In particular, King's heavy reliance on an unpublished dissertation completed three years earlier by Boston University doctoral candidate Jack Boozer is especially egregious.

Further, King's offense cannot be minimized, and any temptation to understate the extent of the problem would simply play into the hands of King opponents, who are no doubt anxious to discover further borrowings . . .

. . . Attempting to explain King's transgressions is a highly speculative and tentative undertaking. By far the most valuable resource at hand is the work of a young scholar at Arizona State University, Prof. Keith D. Miller . . . At the simplest level, Miller's research illuminates that King's ability to memorize -- and to retain portions of memorized texts for years -- was phenomenal. Multi-sentence segments of published sermons by Fosdick and by such other prominent mid-century preachers as George Buttrick, J. Wallace Hamilton and Robert McCracken turn up almost word-for-word in many of King's sermons. To cite simply one notable example highlighted by Miller, King's February 1968 "Drum Major Instinct" sermon, in which King seemingly delivered his own epitaph and which was played at King's own funeral, is extensively modeled upon a similarly titled 1952 sermon by Hamilton. Such parallels can be found in many ministers' sermons, including King's, but the rhetorical power of King's sermons was profoundly his own . . .

King almost always spoke extemporaneously, often giving sermons with no more than a brief outline in front of him. His oratorical repertoire was composed of notable quotations, extended metaphors and sermonic images that he had committed to memory. As Miller explains persuasively in his PMLA article, assumptions about words as property are fundamentally different within the preaching tradition than they are within the written culture of publishing.

. . . Academic commentators such as myself and Union Theological Seminary's James H. Cone have argued for several years that King the student was simply attracted to those authors whose analyses helped articulate values that King already held as a result of his church-centered upbringing in Atlanta.

But if appreciating the young King as a product of oral traditions makes his academic bad habits more understandable, it does not make them excusable . . . (I)n the cold, hard light of the King Papers Project's disheartening findings, there is no gainsaying the depth of one's emotional disappointment over King's plagiarism.

. . . King's greatness lay in his public achievements and private courage, not in his schoolwork nor in his sexual relationships. But we need to remember too, amidst all the relentless talk about the importance and value of "role models," a simple truth that Howard University's E. Ethelbert Miller succinctly articulated: "We must tell youngsters that role models aren't perfect humans."

Martin Luther King Jr. viewed himself as highly imperfect, once telling his Atlanta congregation, "I make mistakes tactically. I make mistakes morally, and get down on my knees and confess it and ask God to forgive me." Indeed, "God does not judge us by the separate incidents or the separate mistakes that we make, but by the total bent of our lives" . . .

---David J. Garrow, author of Bearing the Cross: Martin Luther King, Jr. and the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, in The Washington Post, 18 November 1990.


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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Re: Obituaries for 2020
« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2020, 03:10:00 am »

 
Quote
Hoover had a vendetta against just about everybody.

True.

Quote
I find it ironic that for all the ranting Pete has made about John G. Roberts being a closeted homosexual, he believes the word of one of the foremost members of the Velvet Mafia of his time in J. Edgar Hoover.

@jmyrlefuller  I see. You think homosexuals are incapable of telling the truth.

The FACTS are that I don't give a rabid rats ass about anyone being a homosexual,as long as he or she is not in a position to be blackmailed into harming America.

I don't even care about homosexuals having cabinet positions,or being a congresscritter or US Senator as long as they are "out" and can't be blackmailed into betraying America.

As for my personal life,I wish MORE guys were homosexuals so there would be less competition for the available women.

You are barking up the wrong tree,bubba.

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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Re: Obituaries for 2020
« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2020, 03:16:53 am »
I said previously that he cheated on his wife.  I believe that one was proven.   No doubt the man had failings. He was human after all and humans make mistakes.  But I do believe Dr. King did more good than bad and it is the good he did that I would rather remember. 

But as for the rest -- I'm not going to believe something that has not been proven.  You and I have been sparring for a long time on this forum.  You know that I used to work for attorneys. In the legal profession, whether in civil or criminal matters, where there is an accusation, there had better be proof to back it up. 

@Applewood

ROFLMAO!  If lawyers couldn't lie,they wouldn't be allowed to say anything. You must not know any criminal trial lawyers.

 
Quote
I find it funny that you assert that I won't believe anything negative about Dr. King.  Yet, if I were to make a claim about something bad involving Donald Trump, you would dismiss it out of hand regardless of any proof I were to offer.  So I would say you are hurling an accusation of prejudice against me that you have yourself.

You can say any damnfool thing you want to say,but that doesn't mean you are right. King was scum. The worse type of hypocrite. If you want to worship him,that's on you,not me.

Here is another little tip for you. Don't hijack a thread and then criticize someone else for responding.


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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Re: Obituaries for 2020
« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2020, 03:20:44 am »
@Applewood
I've always found it intriguing, too, that people have selective views of the FBI's veracity based upon whether or not FBI findings can be married to their particular partisan preferences of the moment.

Since you raised the point in your context (and I've seen how true it is), I'm obliged to acknowledge that Dr. King cheated on one wife but a certain president has cheated on three. Yet to enough people it's that certain president who's only human (something enough of those folks didn't exactly rush to suggest regarding the previous impeached president---who cheated on one wife and committed three crimes trying to cover up at least one of those cheatings) while Dr. King thus becomes a scoundrel whose fighting of the good fight otherwise becomes null and void?

 

@Easy Ace

Ok,bubba. Please tell us all how many black hookers Trump hired to beat and humiliate.

While you are at it,tell us about how hypocritical he is for being a preacher that is a mean drunk,a whoremonger,and a liar that cheated to get his degree?

Not that I really care. If you want to admire a hypocrite,that's on you,not me.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Re: Obituaries for 2020
« Reply #23 on: July 20, 2020, 03:26:11 am »
Quote
Some would dare call that blaming the victim.

@EasyAce

"Heeza vic-tum! Ah VIC-TUM,ah tells ya!

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Though I do remember that a good while before King's murder, those other groups with agendae far more extreme, and definitely on the side of the violence King denounced and strove against,


Ever heard of the" Ying and the Yang"?
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Offline LegalAmerican

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Re: Re: Obituaries for 2020
« Reply #24 on: July 20, 2020, 03:46:33 am »
False.

King was actually born Michael King, Jr.. His father was sent to Europe in 1934 by his church, for a meeting of the Baptist World Alliance. The elder King and others there with the Alliance saw enough of Nazism that 1) the BWA handed up a resolution saying, "This Congress deplores and condemns as a violation of the law of God the Heavenly Father, all racial animosity, and every form of oppression or unfair discrimination toward the Jews, toward coloured people, or toward subject races in any part of the world"; and, b) when the elder King returned home that August, after having visited assorted sites relevant to Martin Luther, he began to call himself Martin Luther King, Sr. and his son Martin Luther King, Jr.

King, Jr. in fact did change his name legally---right down to changing his birth certificate---in 1957.
Well, now.

1) We have a sitting president who cheated on three wives and got elected anyway. Are we being very selective when it comes to whose adulteries must be forgiven and whose, eternally condemned? (He's an adulterer but he's our adulterer!) Isn't that a tack to which we object vehemently when the left deploys it (reference Clinton, Bill), as so often they have? Are we really still to argue that the right (in fact or by supposition) earns that pass because the culprit is (in fact or by supposition) of the right?

2) This may be the best commentary you'll ever see about King's plagiarism issues, from 1990:

. . . [N]either the [King Papers Project] editors nor those of us in the scholarly community who have reviewed their findings have any dependable explanation for why King did what he did, nor can they say how aware King was of having done wrong. There is no getting around the fact that the scale of King's unattributed borrowings -- almost word-for-word copying of sentences and whole paragraphs without benefit of quotation marks on scores of occasions, often without minimal footnoting -- is extensive and substantial. In particular, King's heavy reliance on an unpublished dissertation completed three years earlier by Boston University doctoral candidate Jack Boozer is especially egregious.

Further, King's offense cannot be minimized, and any temptation to understate the extent of the problem would simply play into the hands of King opponents, who are no doubt anxious to discover further borrowings . . .

. . . Attempting to explain King's transgressions is a highly speculative and tentative undertaking. By far the most valuable resource at hand is the work of a young scholar at Arizona State University, Prof. Keith D. Miller . . . At the simplest level, Miller's research illuminates that King's ability to memorize -- and to retain portions of memorized texts for years -- was phenomenal. Multi-sentence segments of published sermons by Fosdick and by such other prominent mid-century preachers as George Buttrick, J. Wallace Hamilton and Robert McCracken turn up almost word-for-word in many of King's sermons. To cite simply one notable example highlighted by Miller, King's February 1968 "Drum Major Instinct" sermon, in which King seemingly delivered his own epitaph and which was played at King's own funeral, is extensively modeled upon a similarly titled 1952 sermon by Hamilton. Such parallels can be found in many ministers' sermons, including King's, but the rhetorical power of King's sermons was profoundly his own . . .

King almost always spoke extemporaneously, often giving sermons with no more than a brief outline in front of him. His oratorical repertoire was composed of notable quotations, extended metaphors and sermonic images that he had committed to memory. As Miller explains persuasively in his PMLA article, assumptions about words as property are fundamentally different within the preaching tradition than they are within the written culture of publishing.

. . . Academic commentators such as myself and Union Theological Seminary's James H. Cone have argued for several years that King the student was simply attracted to those authors whose analyses helped articulate values that King already held as a result of his church-centered upbringing in Atlanta.

But if appreciating the young King as a product of oral traditions makes his academic bad habits more understandable, it does not make them excusable . . . (I)n the cold, hard light of the King Papers Project's disheartening findings, there is no gainsaying the depth of one's emotional disappointment over King's plagiarism.

. . . King's greatness lay in his public achievements and private courage, not in his schoolwork nor in his sexual relationships. But we need to remember too, amidst all the relentless talk about the importance and value of "role models," a simple truth that Howard University's E. Ethelbert Miller succinctly articulated: "We must tell youngsters that role models aren't perfect humans."

Martin Luther King Jr. viewed himself as highly imperfect, once telling his Atlanta congregation, "I make mistakes tactically. I make mistakes morally, and get down on my knees and confess it and ask God to forgive me." Indeed, "God does not judge us by the separate incidents or the separate mistakes that we make, but by the total bent of our lives" . . .

---David J. Garrow, author of Bearing the Cross: Martin Luther King, Jr. and the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, in The Washington Post, 18 November 1990.

I had to stop reading.  You are wrong.  We are talking about MLK....not my POTUS.  MLK..was supposed to be a reverend.  .  He was into all kind of debauchery. I never understand marriages like CLINTONS.  NO DIVORCE...but both cheat and both go both ways. Yet stay together, as if, that is some kind of virtue.   So people who their whole life CHEAT on the wife., get a pass, yet those who, don't want that, get blasted for wanting a better relationship.
Ivana caused the bankruptcy's,  But POTUS never blamed her.  Their marriage was already over.  MARLA..cheated on HIM!
Then Melania, we don't know. STORMY has to pay POTUS 290,000.00 dollars for lying & extorting money from him, from 17 years ago!  I care about his work and policy's.  His private life is his own....said ALL LIBERALS ABOUT CLINTON & OBAMA.  I didn't vote for a POPE, PREIST, PASTOR.  I voted for a business man. www.magapill.com  The things you talk about, is TRUMP ENVY.  My old post below.  Every president has cheated,  WHILE being president. NOT TRUMP AS POTUS. 
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LEFTS ARE ALWAYS Goofy. DOUBLE STANDARDS. You must hate congress in DC who use a madame.  You have some issues with people married more than once?  Better to stay married & be a-holes to each other?  Bill & Hillary go BOTH WAYS. GAY.  Bill has a child with black prostitute, DANNY WILLIAMS. Hillary caught in hotel room with black female prostitute. Hillary raped Cathy O'brien. Bill has 19 more women of record, saying he raped them. Not counting paid off Jones or Flowers.  BUT..Bill & Hillary still together.  Obama..married to trannie...the bio parents of his kids are DR. ANITA BLANCHARD & Martin Nesbitt. Obama born in Kenya, fraud, con artist. Then gay male wh0re for rich white men to get his cocaine. Obama smokes, does pot, cocaine + loves beer so much, had a brewery in the White House. ALCOHOLIC?  Issues with little boys. HE LIKES THEM. PIZZAGATE.
  You need video of bouncing b@lls of Manchelle?  My president does NOT drink any alcohol..ever, does not smoke, does no illegal drugs, does not drink  CAFFEINE.  You want to impugn him?  Clintons cheat, Obama cheats, ALL KENNEDYS cheated.  Teddy caused the death of his mistress. MaryJo Kopecny.