Israeli Data Show School Openings Were a Disaster That Wiped Out Lockdown Gains

[Fishrrman]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/israeli-data-show-school-openings-were-a-disaster-that-wiped-out-lockdown-gains

Israeli Data Show School Openings Were a Disaster That Wiped Out Lockdown Gains
July 14th, 2020
Noga Tarnopolsky

JERUSALEM—Israel’s unchecked resurgence of COVID-19 was propelled by the abrupt May 17 decision to reopen all schools, medical and public-health officials have told The Daily Beast.

The assessment of Israel’s trajectory has direct bearing on the heated debate underway in the United States between President Donald Trump, who is demanding a nationwide reopening of schools for what appear to be largely political reasons, and health authorities who caution it could put the wider population at risk.

Importantly, on May 17 in Israel it appeared the virus not only was under control, but defeated. Israel reported only 10 new cases of COVID-19 in the entire country that day. In the U.S., the debate often is about reopening schools where the disease is not only not in decline, but surging.

On Sunday, for instance, U.S. Education Secretary Betsy DeVos told Chris Wallace on Fox News Sunday, “There’s nothing in the data that suggests that kids being in school is in any way dangerous.” But that is not the case in Israel, where the data from June, the last month for which there is a full set of statistics, appear all too clear.

More at URL above...

[skeeter]

"Flatten the Curve" is a long, conveniently forgotten memory.

If anyone had suggested in March that we should shut down until the virus disappeared off the face of the planet they would've been laughed off as insane. Yet here we are.

[GrouchoTex]

I am against a 1-size-fits-all approach to this.

The local school boards we've elected across the country should have the decision making capability as to whether they open their school districts or not.

If the voting populations of these districts do not like their decisions, whichever way they decide, vote them out next time.

Ultimately, it should be up to the parents, of course, as to whether or not they feel it is safe enough to send their kids to school.

Even districts that do reopen should have options available for parents who choose to not send their kids to a physical building.

[Right_in_Virginia]

"Flatten the Curve" is a long, conveniently forgotten memory.

If anyone had suggested in March that we should shut down until the virus disappeared off the face of the planet they would've been laughed off as insane. Yet here we are.

Never quarantine your healthy.  They're your herd immunity.  "The science" clearly ignored this.  We'd be past all this BS had "the science" not had a political agenda.   

[Right_in_Virginia]

Even districts that do reopen should have options available for parents who choose to not send their kids to a physical building.

Why?  Children are unharmed by this virus.  Hell, they're not even adequate carriers.

And where would you draw this line?  Would an opt-out apply to the seasonal flu?  The common cold? 

@GrouchoTex

[skeeter]

Never quarantine your healthy.  They're your herd immunity.  "The science" clearly ignored this.  We'd be past all this BS had "the science" not had a political agenda.

Newsom just re-closed public spaces due to the uptick in cases. Being personally acquainted with many small business people, who barely survived the initial shutdown, were looking forward to climbing out of their holes, and are now utterly crushed by this latest edict from on high, I am enraged.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Newsom just re-closed public spaces due to the uptick in cases. Being personally acquainted with many small business people, who barely survived the initial shutdown, were looking forward to climbing out of their holes, and are now utterly crushed by this latest edict from on high, I am enraged.

I am, too @skeeter   ...

I keep waiting for the tipping point --- when enough of this bulllshit is truly enough.  Our founders and farmer-soldiers would have starting shooting months ago.   

When did we become so damn afraid?

[GrouchoTex]

Why?  Children are unharmed by this virus.  Hell, they're not even adequate carriers.

And where would you draw this line?  Would an opt-out apply to the seasonal flu?  The common cold? 

@GrouchoTex

Are you trying to say no parents ever opted out of sending kids to school when there is a flu outbreak?
I've seen a few schools close a time or two, for up to a week, when this has happened, without the parents prompting them to do so.
Sometimes, it is that they can't get enough teachers to come in.
This could also happen, regardless of whether or not the children are adequate carriers or not.
Common cold? Never said that.


Fine, if you want your state or federal government to make the call for your community, do so.

I don't. I like little things like the 10th amendment.

[GrouchoTex]

Google search gave me several fairly recent examples, this on its first page

School closure due to flu:

In Ohio. January 17th, 2020
https://abc6onyourside.com/news/local/school-districts-closed-friday-due-to-flu-outbreak

In 12 states, January 29th, 2019
https://www.inverse.com/article/52824-schools-shutdown-because-of-flu-outbreaks-states

In Arkansas February 4th 2020
https://katv.com/news/local/schools-close-across-central-arkansas-due-to-flu-outbreak

In Maine, February 3rd, 2020
https://wgme.com/news/local/two-maine-school-closed-due-to-flu

Several more examples on the web.

[libertybele]

Google search gave me several fairly recent examples, this on its first page

School closure due to flu:

In Ohio. January 17th, 2020
https://abc6onyourside.com/news/local/school-districts-closed-friday-due-to-flu-outbreak

In 12 states, January 29th, 2019
https://www.inverse.com/article/52824-schools-shutdown-because-of-flu-outbreaks-states

In Arkansas February 4th 2020
https://katv.com/news/local/schools-close-across-central-arkansas-due-to-flu-outbreak

In Maine, February 3rd, 2020
https://wgme.com/news/local/two-maine-school-closed-due-to-flu

Several more examples on the web.

I'm looking at the dates and this was before COVID was known to be an issue in the U.S., but I'm thinking perhaps this wasn't the ordinary flu virus but perhaps COVID.

Kids are perhaps not as susceptible to this virus but some are still getting sick and the possibility of them bringing the virus home once they return to school and passing it on to their parents and infant siblings or even grandparents I'd say is pretty likely.

I wouldn't want to be a parent right now in having to decide whether or not to send my child back to the classroom or continue on with distance or virtual learning.  The WHO, CDC and our own government isn't being honest.

[GrouchoTex]

@libertybele

Tough call, to be sure. Single parents and parents that need 2 incomes would benefit.
Humans need socialization.
I agree with that.

To tell the truth, I am actually on the side of them reopening, but I think it should be a district by district decision, ultimately, the parents choice whether to send them or not.

If those flu closures I'd listed were actually COVID, it kind of blows the theory out of the water that children can't catch or spread COVID.
I think these were most likely flu cases.
Many of them were in suburbs and small towns where COVID (most likely) hadn't made a presence yet.

...but you never know.

[libertybele]

Why?  Children are unharmed by this virus.  Hell, they're not even adequate carriers.

And where would you draw this line?  Would an opt-out apply to the seasonal flu?  The common cold? 

@GrouchoTex

Children are unharmed is simply not true @Right_in_Virginia -- tell that to the parents of an 8-year old little boy here in FL who had no underlying health issues, nor had traveled anywhere, yet died from COVID.

Some children with a rare multisystem inflammatory response to COVID-19 may experience neurological symptoms, a recent UK study found.

While younger populations tend to fare better with coronavirus infections, some pediatric patients develop Multisystem Inflammatory Syndrome in Children, or MIS-C. The syndrome has been compared to Kawasaki disease, which causes swelling in arteries throughout the body

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/mis-c-in-children-covid-19/art-20486809

https://www.foxnews.com/health/some-children-suffer-rare-coronavirus-related-brain-damage

That is that information and on the flip side some are stating that children aren't as susceptible, though rare, there have been infants and children dying from COVID-19.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-53097646
https://abc13.com/baby-dies-from-coronavirus-corpus-christi-nuces-county-death-covid/6311428/

[skeeter]

Children are unharmed is simply not true @Right_in_Virginia -- tell that to the parents of an 8-year old little boy here in FL who had no underlying health issues, nor had traveled anywhere, yet died from COVID.

Some children with a rare multisystem inflammatory response to COVID-19 may experience neurological symptoms, a recent UK study found.

While younger populations tend to fare better with coronavirus infections, some pediatric patients develop Multisystem Inflammatory Syndrome in Children, or MIS-C. The syndrome has been compared to Kawasaki disease, which causes swelling in arteries throughout the body

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/mis-c-in-children-covid-19/art-20486809

https://www.foxnews.com/health/some-children-suffer-rare-coronavirus-related-brain-damage

That is that information and on the flip side some are stating that children aren't as susceptible, though rare, there have been infants and children dying from COVID-19.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-53097646
https://abc13.com/baby-dies-from-coronavirus-corpus-christi-nuces-county-death-covid/6311428/

There are cases of younger Covid victims, for sure. But the common flu, in 2018’s season for example, claims more victims across all age groups than has COVID, which threatens seniors more directly. And we can’t close schools every flu season.

[libertybele]

@libertybele

Tough call, to be sure. Single parents and parents that need 2 incomes would benefit.
Humans need socialization.
I agree with that.

To tell the truth, I am actually on the side of them reopening, but I think it should be a district by district decision, ultimately, the parents choice whether to send them or not.

If those flu closures I'd listed were actually COVID, it kind of blows the theory out of the water that children can't catch or spread COVID.
I think these were most likely flu cases.
Many of them were in suburbs and small towns where COVID (most likely) hadn't made a presence yet.

...but you never know.

Yes kids need to go back to school, they need that socialization, making friendships, etc., I get that.  Right now though at what cost?  Delaying and allowing distance learning or virtual learning is certainly to me a more feasible avenue and I don't see keeping kids safe for another couple of months is going to be harmful.

As for parents needing the duo income .... that certainly has become the norm and is very, very unfortunate.  I won't go into my theories about that, but as a parent, I think I'd forego  the vacations, the extra car, the additional tvs, cell phones, cable, video gaming systems, designer clothing, etc. so that I could be home with my kids right now if needed.  The state of FL just announced that kids who were on lunch programs in their school are eligible for an EBT card for food.  Every child in my county was on the school lunch program as to not discriminate.  I always cringe when I see someone in the grocery store using their benefits card, who has artificial nails and expensive highlights in their hair - just sayin'.  I am not saying that families aren't experiencing hardships because of this virus but I know of a couple of "mommys" that work so that they can go to Disney every year with the family, and take a few vacations with their spouses away from the kids,  have a new car to shuttle the kids back and forth to school....and, yes .... send their kids to summer camp.  So --- I don't feel for some of these people.

[libertybele]

There are cases of younger Covid victims, for sure. But the common flu, in 2018’s season for example, claims more victims across all age groups than has COVID, which threatens seniors more directly. And we can’t close schools every flu season.

Of course we can't close down every flu season.  This is an unprecedented pandemic and all I am proposing is that for the sake of our youth to err on the side of caution, especially if we begin to find out that they are indeed carriers.  The WHO, nor the CDC have  been honest, so who knows if what we are being told is accurate.

I find it interesting that they closed down all the parks and playgrounds which are outside in the fresh air and sunshine to halt the spread of the virus among our kids, yet they now want to send these same kids into an enclosed environment.  Makes no sense.

[skeeter]

Of course we can't close down every flu season.  This is an unprecedented pandemic and all I am proposing is that for the sake of our youth to err on the side of caution, especially if we begin to find out that they are indeed carriers.  The WHO, nor the CDC have  been honest, so who knows if what we are being told is accurate.

I find it interesting that they closed down all the parks and playgrounds which are outside in the fresh air and sunshine to halt the spread of the virus among our kids, yet they now want to send these same kids into an enclosed environment.  Makes no sense.

if the statistics say the common flu is more threatening to children how can you not propose to close schools every flu season and be consistent?

[GrouchoTex]

@libertybele @Right_in_Virginia

I live in the Suburbs, Fort Bend County.
Northeast of me is Houston, Harris county.
Southwest of me is rural, Wharton county.

Our School district is going to start out virtual only, and switch to class room eventually, which I think is the right move there.
5015 cases and 63 deaths

Houston will probably do the same, but just haven't announced it yet.
47,369 cases and 466 deaths.

Wharton County has 349 cases and 1 death.
I'd think they would be a very reasonable candidate for reopening.
I couldn't think of a reason why they would not.

Again, no one-size-fits-all approach.

[GrouchoTex]

There are cases of younger Covid victims, for sure. But the common flu, in 2018’s season for example, claims more victims across all age groups than has COVID, which threatens seniors more directly. And we can’t close schools every flu season.

But @skeeter Some, not all, schools due close down, albeit for shorter periods, during flu season.
Sometimes a day, sometimes a week, but it happens.

Google any "School closure flu 20__",  (pick your year), and you will find several articles from across the country where this happens.

I think that the local school districts, like with flu breakouts, should decide when and how they should reopen.

No central planning, no thank you.

[libertybele]

@libertybele @Right_in_Virginia

I live in the Suburbs, Fort Bend County.
Northeast of me is Houston, Harris county.
Southwest of me is rural, Wharton county.

Our School district is going to start out virtual only, and switch to class room eventually, which I think is the right move there.
5015 cases and 63 deaths

Houston will probably do the same, but just haven't announced it yet.
47,369 cases and 466 deaths.

Wharton County has 349 cases and 1 death.
I'd think they would be a very reasonable candidate for reopening.
I couldn't think of a reason why they would not.

Again, no one-size-fits-all approach.

The parents here in my county have several options; send their kids to school, enroll in a virtual learning program, enroll in a home connect/school program or home school.  I'd opt for any option other than sending my child to school. Positivity rate for this area is at 19%. 

Unfortunately the numbers of cases, deaths, hospitalizations continues to be skewed so it makes the situation more difficult.

[skeeter]

But @skeeter Some, not all, schools due close down, albeit for shorter periods, during flu season.
Sometimes a day, sometimes a week, but it happens.

Google any "School closure flu 20__",  (pick your year), and you will find several articles from across the country where this happens.

I think that the local school districts, like with flu breakouts, should decide when and how they should reopen.

No central planning, no thank you.

if we’re talking about very short term closures of a day, or maybe a week, then there is no disagreement from me. But I’m afraid today’s shot callers are thinking a bit bigger than that.

[GrouchoTex]

The parents here in my county have several options; send their kids to school, enroll in a virtual learning program, enroll in a home connect/school program or home school.  I'd opt for any option other than sending my child to school. Positivity rate for this area is at 19%. 

Unfortunately the numbers of cases, deaths, hospitalizations continues to be skewed so it makes the situation more difficult.

I agree with you on the counts.
I figure if a person get test as positive 3 times, they are counting them as 3 cases.

[GrouchoTex]

if we’re talking about very short term closures of a day, or maybe a week, then there is no disagreement from me. But I’m afraid today’s shot callers are thinking a bit bigger than that.

@skeeter
We start in Mid-August here.
Ends in late May
A lot of places start in early September, and end in Mid-June.

When I lived in California for a while, a long time ago, I was never in school on my birthday, 9/9.
It always (used to) start after that.

I'd like to hope everyone is back by September.
They still may make August here, but that is looking less likely, depending on where you live and how severe the outbreak.

[aligncare]

This is all about November 3rd. Politics. Politics. Politics. Never forget that the raison d’être of Washington, D.C. is politics, not the welfare of its subjects.

We mean nothing to our rulers except the vote we cast—even if the rate of voter participation were to drop down to two percent, it wouldn’t matter. There is no option for a vote of no confidence. The Masters of the Universe still get their re-election.

[libertybele]

This is all about November 3rd. Politics. Politics. Politics. Never forget that the raison d’être of Washington, D.C. is politics, not the welfare of its subjects.

We mean nothing to our rulers except the vote we cast—even if the rate of voter participation were to drop down to two percent, it wouldn’t matter. There is no option for a vote of no confidence. The Masters of the Universe still get their re-election.

Well, at the rate things are going, I'm really thinking about only voting for a couple of people down ballot and I'll see if there are any judges, or state and city issues that I want to vote on. 

[GrouchoTex]

This is all about November 3rd. Politics. Politics. Politics. Never forget that the raison d’être of Washington, D.C. is politics, not the welfare of its subjects.

We mean nothing to our rulers except the vote we cast—even if the rate of voter participation were to drop down to two percent, it wouldn’t matter. There is no option for a vote of no confidence. The Masters of the Universe still get their re-election.

Mask off, schools open November 4th.......