Author Topic: We open a fireproof gun safe after a house fire - See what’s inside!  (Read 997 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline EdinVA

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,584
  • Gender: Male
Fire proof safes worth the money?


Error 404 (Not Found)!!1

Offline Sighlass

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,202
  • Didn't vote for McCain Dole Romney Trump !
I sorta breezed through the video.... safe needed to be opened sooner because they found out the water/time/chemicals do more damage than perhaps the heat did. I just know that some of the most corrosive stuff in the world is in a fire extinguisher.  If you put out a car fire or something with a extinguisher, as soon as you can take it to a hand held car wash and spray it off. We has some jackarse kids spray one in our car one Halloween 40+ years ago, and it did some damage before we realized it.

That said, I would of cleaned those guns up the best I could and kept them. I imagine 90% of them would of worked.
Exodus 18:21 Furthermore, you shall select out of all the people able men who fear God, men of truth, those who hate dishonest gain; and you shall place these over them as leaders over ....

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 56,402
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
I sorta breezed through the video.... safe needed to be opened sooner because they found out the water/time/chemicals do more damage than perhaps the heat did. I just know that some of the most corrosive stuff in the world is in a fire extinguisher.  If you put out a car fire or something with a extinguisher, as soon as you can take it to a hand held car wash and spray it off. We has some jackarse kids spray one in our car one Halloween 40+ years ago, and it did some damage before we realized it.

That said, I would of cleaned those guns up the best I could and kept them. I imagine 90% of them would of worked.
The only question I have about the guns, is whether or not being in the heat from the fire caused the steel to lose temper. Hardness testing with a Rockwell tester would determine if the temper of the barrels or actions had changed. They could clean up and still function mechanically but be dangerous to shoot.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline EdinVA

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,584
  • Gender: Male
The only question I have about the guns, is whether or not being in the heat from the fire caused the steel to lose temper. Hardness testing with a Rockwell tester would determine if the temper of the barrels or actions had changed. They could clean up and still function mechanically but be dangerous to shoot.
Would severe heat distort/bow the barrel?

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 56,402
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Would severe heat distort/bow the barrel?
Severe heat could, it could also melt it, but the more insidious damage comes from removing the temper from steel. In an insulated environment, if the steel has gotten hot enough (above its crystallization temperature) and cools slowly, it will lose temper and soften.

In this instance, though, we have a thermometer.

Consider, according to https://concealednation.org/2016/06/ammo-in-the-car-under-summer-heat-how-stable-is-it/

Quote
    Lead melts at 621 °F
    Nitrocellulose ignites at around 320-338 °F
    Gunpowder ignites at 801–867 °F.

Ordinary book paper ignites at 451°F (Hence the Ray Bradbury Title), and most paper would be burning by 500°F

While the 7mm ammo cooked off (nitrocellulose based powder?), the pistol ammo did not, and the boxes were not carbonized. That means temperatures likely stayed below 500 degrees F, and the steel is okay.

Still, after I cleaned the rifles and pistol up, I would take them to a gunsmith or metallurgist and have the actions hardness tested to be sure.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2020, 12:34:07 pm by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline EdinVA

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,584
  • Gender: Male
Severe heat could, it could also melt it, but the more insidious damage comes from removing the temper from steel. In an insulated environment, if the steel has gotten hot enough (above its crystallization temperature) and cools slowly, it will lose temper and soften.

In this instance, though, we have a thermometer.

Consider, according to https://concealednation.org/2016/06/ammo-in-the-car-under-summer-heat-how-stable-is-it/

Ordinary book paper ignites at 451°F (Hence the Ray Bradbury Title), and most paper would be burning by 500°F

While the 7mm ammo cooked off (nitrocellulose based powder?), the pistol ammo did not, and the boxes were not carbonized. That means temperatures likely stayed below 500 degrees F, and the steel is okay.

Still, after I cleaned the rifles and pistol up, I would take them to a gunsmith or metallurgist and have the actions hardness tested to be sure.
Interesting... thanks for the back fill...

Quote
Most fire-resistant safes can withstand temperatures of 1700°F, much higher than typical house fires (1200°F), and maintain an internal temperature of 350°F –protecting your valuable documents or other items. The fire-resistance typically will be specified for 1 or 2 hours –longer than the duration of an average house fire. In other words, a class 350°F 2-hour rated safe can maintain an internal temperature at or below 350°F for two hours of exposure to 1700°F.
https://www.vaultandsafe.com/vault-safe-classifications/

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 56,402
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Interesting... thanks for the back fill...
Thanks for the ratings info!
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline catfish1957

  • Laken Riley.... Say her Name. And to every past and future democrat voter- Her blood is on your hands too!!!
  • Political Researcher
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,362
  • Gender: Male
Maybe its my background, but they sure seem to be handling these devices (guns/ammo) that have gone through varying levels of themal inititation pretty non-chalantly. 
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline EdinVA

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,584
  • Gender: Male
Maybe its my background, but they sure seem to be handling these devices (guns/ammo) that have gone through varying levels of themal inititation pretty non-chalantly.

Exactly... two of the AR's had magazines in them so they were likely loaded...

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 56,402
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Maybe its my background, but they sure seem to be handling these devices (guns/ammo) that have gone through varying levels of themal inititation pretty non-chalantly.
True, only a couple were cleared and checked on video. I'm not much of one for pulling an unknown firearm out of anything unknown by the barrel end, either.

Surface rust is common after a fire, the gasses produced are corrosive and any metal will suffer if not promptly cleaned and oiled.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Slide Rule

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,321
  • Gender: Male
Do they have devices to get an idea of the actual temperatures inside a safe?

Something that melts or discolors at various temperatures.

I suppose one could put in a heat sensor to an enteral recorder.
White, American, MAGA, 3% Neanderthal, and 97% Extreme Right Wing Conservative.

Recommended

J Boswell, The Life of Samuel Johnson
E Burke, Reflections on the Revolution in France
N Davies, Europe: A History
R Feynman, The Feynman Lectures on Physics
R Penrose, The Road To Reality & The Emperor's New Mind
K Popper, An Open Society and Its Enemies & The Logic of Scientific Discovery
A Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago, & Everything he wrote

Offline EdinVA

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,584
  • Gender: Male
Got this from my brother who has been with the local volunteer fire department for probably 20 years...
Quote
Well a lot of people don't know this, but many fireproof safes are designed so that the insulation in them release moisture inside the safe at specific temperatures.
This is what likely caused the rust on the guns in the safe.

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 56,402
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Do they have devices to get an idea of the actual temperatures inside a safe?

Something that melts or discolors at various temperatures.

I suppose one could put in a heat sensor to an enteral recorder.
I was thinking along the same lines. A steel frame with different alloys that melt at specific temperatures should do it.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Slide Rule

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,321
  • Gender: Male
I was thinking along the same lines. A steel frame with different alloys that melt at specific temperatures should do it.


Yep.

The guys cutting open the safe were not the owners. No doubt, the owners took the cash from their insurance.
White, American, MAGA, 3% Neanderthal, and 97% Extreme Right Wing Conservative.

Recommended

J Boswell, The Life of Samuel Johnson
E Burke, Reflections on the Revolution in France
N Davies, Europe: A History
R Feynman, The Feynman Lectures on Physics
R Penrose, The Road To Reality & The Emperor's New Mind
K Popper, An Open Society and Its Enemies & The Logic of Scientific Discovery
A Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago, & Everything he wrote

Online SZonian

  • Strike without warning
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,689
  • 415th Nightstalker
Do they have devices to get an idea of the actual temperatures inside a safe?

Something that melts or discolors at various temperatures.

I suppose one could put in a heat sensor to an enteral recorder.
I know we had adhesive backed "blister" sensors with various temp ratings that were used in high temp areas of some of our aircraft.  I can't seem to recall the right terminology right now.  I've slept a few times since I last used them, so have forgotten.
Throwing our allegiances to political parties in the long run gave away our liberty.