Author Topic: Surgeon general urges widespread mask use: 'It is not a suppression of your freedom'  (Read 10511 times)

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Online roamer_1

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0.03 micron is 30 nm. I think you meant 0.3 micron which is 300 nm which is what I believe an N95 mask is rated for.

Right. Typo as evidenced by my other posts... Sorry. It is .3 or 0.3



Offline Smokin Joe

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He don't know what he's missin... digging dried lacquer out of your nose is half the fun (getting lit from the lac being the other half  :whistle::laugh: :beer:
I was on a fire call, many, many moons ago. The man's garage had caught fire, and after knocking down the fire, a crew of us were clearing out the loft, checking for hot spots. The owner had painted cars for years, and had an incredible supply of lacquer cans up there, along with a few cans of roofing cement (tar, basically), most of which had popped open in the heat, but thankfully had not burned.
We're in there, breathing lacquer fumes, passing buckets down the ladder, in full gear without Scott packs...
The Chief asked me how I was doing after I passed down a bucket of roofing tar with the fingers of my glove in the tar...

I said "Fine!"

He said "Everybody OUT!" and we went.

The next crew went inside in full gear and air packs while we sat on the lawn laughing and having a great time (under supervision of EMS), higher than kites...

I will say one thing. No shine, no bottled and bond, no mix of liquors, beer, and wine EVER produced a hangover like the one I had for the next three days....
« Last Edit: August 11, 2020, 07:31:37 am by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline sneakypete

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I went to see Doctor, after my hospital stay. 5 people berated me...trying to get me to wear a mask.  I said, I can't. I need oxygen.

5 medical people and administrator.  I stayed firm.  Then they "punished me" by NOT taking my vitals. lol. I hate that part anyway.    I had that done every few hours, round the clock, in hospital.  I did, get to see the doctor and some medications renewed.  Blood thinner.

@LegalAmerican

You should have been able to have gotten that done with a phone call.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline Smokin Joe

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@Smokin Joe @roamer_1

https://www.lifesitenews.com/blogs/renowned-european-scientist-covid-19-was-engineered-in-china-lab-effective-vaccine-unlikely
I have pretty much been saying the first part since early on in this. I think the only way to gain immunity to the present strain is to have antibodies, your own developed in fighting the disease off, or someone else's from blood plasma. The current vaccines, however are not pursuing this traditional approach, but something different.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Smokin Joe

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How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline LegalAmerican

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@LegalAmerican

You should have been able to have gotten that done with a phone call.

I tried.  They HAD to see me in person.  People are mostly sheep.  Not about your health! 

      It's Not About Your Health.mp4
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Offline LegalAmerican

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I was on a fire call, many, many moons ago. The man's garage had caught fire, and after knocking down the fire, a crew of us were clearing out the loft, checking for hot spots. The owner had painted cars for years, and had an incredible supply of lacquer cans up there, along with a few cans of roofing cement (tar, basically), most of which had popped open in the heat, but thankfully had not burned.
We're in there, breathing lacquer fumes, passing buckets down the ladder, in full gear without Scott packs...
The Chief asked me how I was doing after I passed down a bucket of roofing tar with the fingers of my glove in the tar...

I said "Fine!"

He said "Everybody OUT!" and we went.

The next crew went inside in full gear and air packs while we sat on the lawn laughing and having a great time (under supervision of EMS), higher than kites...

I will say one thing. No shine, no bottled and bond, no mix of liquors, beer, and wine EVER produced a hangover like the one I had for the next three days....

Now I understand you user name!  That is such a dangerous job.  I admire people who can do that.   :thumbsup:

Offline Smokin Joe

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Now I understand you user name!  That is such a dangerous job.  I admire people who can do that.   :thumbsup:
That is where I got the nickname, but I only did that for four years way back before I went to college. We were volunteers, and very well trained through the University of MD Fire Extension Service, and that takes a lot of the danger out. That program has grown into a professional firefighter curriculum that can get someone interested a job just about anywhere. We also trained as EMTs, so we did Fire and Rescue. It was an experience I would not trade for anything.
After I left Grad school, I went to work in the oil patch far away, there were a couple of times I tried to join local departments, but the job got in the way and I had to work. Now, I'm a little gray around the muzzle to haul hose up stairs, but there is that sense of brotherhood among firefighters that persists, much like veterans (and there is no small amount of overlap in those groups).
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline LegalAmerican

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That is where I got the nickname, but I only did that for four years way back before I went to college. We were volunteers, and very well trained through the University of MD Fire Extension Service, and that takes a lot of the danger out. That program has grown into a professional firefighter curriculum that can get someone interested a job just about anywhere. We also trained as EMTs, so we did Fire and Rescue. It was an experience I would not trade for anything.
After I left Grad school, I went to work in the oil patch far away, there were a couple of times I tried to join local departments, but the job got in the way and I had to work. Now, I'm a little gray around the muzzle to haul hose up stairs, but there is that sense of brotherhood among firefighters that persists, much like veterans (and there is no small amount of overlap in those groups).

Very nice.  You are a quality person.   888high58888

Offline Smokin Joe

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Very nice.  You are a quality person.   888high58888
I had an excellent example.
If, by the end of my life, I can be considered even half the man my Father is, I will have done well.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online roamer_1

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I was on a fire call, many, many moons ago. The man's garage had caught fire, and after knocking down the fire, a crew of us were clearing out the loft, checking for hot spots. The owner had painted cars for years, and had an incredible supply of lacquer cans up there, along with a few cans of roofing cement (tar, basically), most of which had popped open in the heat, but thankfully had not burned.
We're in there, breathing lacquer fumes, passing buckets down the ladder, in full gear without Scott packs...
The Chief asked me how I was doing after I passed down a bucket of roofing tar with the fingers of my glove in the tar...

I said "Fine!"

He said "Everybody OUT!" and we went.

The next crew went inside in full gear and air packs while we sat on the lawn laughing and having a great time (under supervision of EMS), higher than kites...

I will say one thing. No shine, no bottled and bond, no mix of liquors, beer, and wine EVER produced a hangover like the one I had for the next three days....

LOL! ah, firemen... you poor lightweights... should have called some painters to give a hand... They'd have worked 8 hrs in it bare-faced.  :silly:

Seriously, from a certain angle, that was the best job I ever had... Wake up every morning to go to work and legally get stoned out of your mind. And get paid like crazy to do it... Huffers are pikers! we fill the WHOLE ROOM!  :silly:

Lacquer is one of the best highs. followed closely by old school oil varnish... If you're getting into hardeners, that's where the hangover came from... Next time you are messin with alkyd or lac based vapors, everybody get a big load of really bad, greasy bar food - A nasty cheeseburger works alright... But fill your belly with greasy bar food beforehand, and you won't get the queasy belly, or the hangover. you have to be full, and it has to be bad. I think it has to do with bad oil or something...

SO just have the firetruck stop off at a five-guys on the way... pack yourselves with really bad food, and go enjoy a great contact high  :silly: :beer:

Greatest job ever!


Offline Smokin Joe

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LOL! ah, firemen... you poor lightweights... should have called some painters to give a hand... They'd have worked 8 hrs in it bare-faced.  :silly:

Seriously, from a certain angle, that was the best job I ever had... Wake up every morning to go to work and legally get stoned out of your mind. And get paid like crazy to do it... Huffers are pikers! we fill the WHOLE ROOM!  :silly:

Lacquer is one of the best highs. followed closely by old school oil varnish... If you're getting into hardeners, that's where the hangover came from... Next time you are messin with alkyd or lac based vapors, everybody get a big load of really bad, greasy bar food - A nasty cheeseburger works alright... But fill your belly with greasy bar food beforehand, and you won't get the queasy belly, or the hangover. you have to be full, and it has to be bad. I think it has to do with bad oil or something...

SO just have the firetruck stop off at a five-guys on the way... pack yourselves with really bad food, and go enjoy a great contact high  :silly: :beer:

Greatest job ever!
:beer:
It was fun while it lasted...but if you're gonna play, you're gonna pay. :shrug:
At the time, we were all young enough to be bulletproof still.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2020, 09:59:47 pm by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online roamer_1

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@Smokin Joe @roamer_1

https://www.lifesitenews.com/blogs/renowned-european-scientist-covid-19-was-engineered-in-china-lab-effective-vaccine-unlikely

@DB
I would not be a bit surprised that the Woohan flu was manufactured. That is far more likely by the odds than any sort of natural means... But from there it gets foggy - Intent? Ineptitude? It FEELS organized. it SEEMS to be a world-wide play, or a dress rehearsal for something MUCH worse.  But I can't nail any of that down.  :shrug:

As to effective vaccine, I have said all along, they really might want to try vaccinating against the common cold - Because that is what they are literally claiming needs to be done. Polio can be vaccinated because it doesn't change much... Influenza has what, five major strains? Well, there has been at least five strains of Woohan already, and probably way more than that. Something fast-morphing like that is going to be entirely different in 3 months. That's why your own body cannot immunize you against colds. Why would government be able to do different?

Offline bigheadfred

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@DB
I would not be a bit surprised that the Woohan flu was manufactured. That is far more likely by the odds than any sort of natural means... But from there it gets foggy - Intent? Ineptitude? It FEELS organized. it SEEMS to be a world-wide play, or a dress rehearsal for something MUCH worse.  But I can't nail any of that down.  :shrug:

As to effective vaccine, I have said all along, they really might want to try vaccinating against the common cold - Because that is what they are literally claiming needs to be done. Polio can be vaccinated because it doesn't change much... Influenza has what, five major strains? Well, there has been at least five strains of Woohan already, and probably way more than that. Something fast-morphing like that is going to be entirely different in 3 months. That's why your own body cannot immunize you against colds. Why would government be able to do different?

My gut feeling is the mandatory microchip vaccine.

She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Online roamer_1

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My gut feeling is the mandatory microchip vaccine.

Something like that... some sort of international advantage.

Offline Smokin Joe

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@DB
I would not be a bit surprised that the Woohan flu was manufactured. That is far more likely by the odds than any sort of natural means... But from there it gets foggy - Intent? Ineptitude? It FEELS organized. it SEEMS to be a world-wide play, or a dress rehearsal for something MUCH worse.  But I can't nail any of that down.  :shrug:

As to effective vaccine, I have said all along, they really might want to try vaccinating against the common cold - Because that is what they are literally claiming needs to be done. Polio can be vaccinated because it doesn't change much... Influenza has what, five major strains? Well, there has been at least five strains of Woohan already, and probably way more than that. Something fast-morphing like that is going to be entirely different in 3 months. That's why your own body cannot immunize you against colds. Why would government be able to do different?
There are four main types of influenza virus, A,B,C,D, of which the type A and B cause seasonal flu outbreaks. Type A viruses cause pandemics. https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/viruses/types.htm
Type A subtypes are based on two proteins, hemagglutinin (H) and neuraminidase (N).

There are 18 hemagglutinin (16 according to some sources) and 11 neuraminidase subtypes respectively, which makes for up to a possible 198 combinations, of which 131 have been detected in nature, based on the H and N proteins.

Not all of these subtypes cause infection in humans, and currently H1N1 and H2N3 are the more common.
http://www.clinlabnavigator.com/influenza-virus-subtypes.html
But with the range of possibilities, picking an H and N type for the current flu shots is an educated crap shoot. That's why some years folks say their flu shot worked, and others not so well.  It gets more complicated with the subclades (variations based on other proteins in the virus) that occur in each group.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline DB

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I think there should be some serious repercussions for China for inflicting this on the world. This wasn't a "natural" disaster. Their carelessness - at a minimum - caused it. And I have to believe our government knows what the truth is in this matter.

Online roamer_1

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There are four main types of influenza virus, A,B,C,D, of which the type A and B cause seasonal flu outbreaks. Type A viruses cause pandemics. https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/viruses/types.htm
Type A subtypes are based on two proteins, hemagglutinin (H) and neuraminidase (N).

There are 18 hemagglutinin (16 according to some sources) and 11 neuraminidase subtypes respectively, which makes for up to a possible 198 combinations, of which 131 have been detected in nature, based on the H and N proteins.

Not all of these subtypes cause infection in humans, and currently H1N1 and H2N3 are the more common.
http://www.clinlabnavigator.com/influenza-virus-subtypes.html
But with the range of possibilities, picking an H and N type for the current flu shots is an educated crap shoot. That's why some years folks say their flu shot worked, and others not so well.  It gets more complicated with the subclades (variations based on other proteins in the virus) that occur in each group.

... Which is why influenza vaccines are so ineffective.. They basically roll the bones and bet on which variant will dominate, and vaccinate for that one... That being in a relatively fixed field at that.

Offline Smokin Joe

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I think there should be some serious repercussions for China for inflicting this on the world. This wasn't a "natural" disaster. Their carelessness - at a minimum - caused it. And I have to believe our government knows what the truth is in this matter.
Their coverup and lies, along with their refusal to shut down traffic in and out of Hubei Province made this pandemic something other than a regional problem.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline sneakypete

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@DB

  I would not be a bit surprised that the Woohan flu was manufactured.


It is an established FACT that the virus was created in a test lab in China. Sound pretty manufactured to me.

Quote
That is far more likely by the odds than any sort of natural means... But from there it gets foggy - Intent? Ineptitude? It FEELS organized. it SEEMS to be a world-wide play, or a dress rehearsal for something MUCH worse.  But I can't nail any of that down.  :shrug:

I think it was done for at least two reasons,maybe several more minor ones we don't even suspect.

1: The Chinese leadership are evil bastards,and still have their little fascist hearts set on dominating Asia,and maybe the world. IMHO,they created it hoping to be able to create a vaccination to use on their invasion troops. There can be NO question that at a MINIMUM their dream is to dominate all of Asia.

Rulers of the World is their maximum dream.

2a: They released it "accidentally" in order to weaken the worlds economy as well as their military. They seem to be the only ones flush with cash these days,and if the 1st world goes bankrupt,they are sitting pretty to step in and buy up factories,or even whole industries.

2b: Trump scares the snot out of them because he can't be bribed or bought,and they wanted/NEEDED to bring him down so a loser like Biden would be the President. When you consider that Pelosi's husband owns the law firm that represents China in the US,the blocks just all seem to fit together.

BTW,I truly don't know which of the above is number 1 and which is number 2. They BOTH might even be number 1 as part of a comprehensive plan.
 

As to effective vaccine, I have said all along, they really might want to try vaccinating against the common cold - Because that is what they are literally claiming needs to be done. Polio can be vaccinated because it doesn't change much... Influenza has what, five major strains? Well, there has been at least five strains of Woohan already, and probably way more than that. Something fast-morphing like that is going to be entirely different in 3 months. That's why your own body cannot immunize you against colds. Why would government be able to do different?
[/quote]
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Online roamer_1

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It is an established FACT that the virus was created in a test lab in China. Sound pretty manufactured to me.

I think it was done for at least two reasons,maybe several more minor ones we don't even suspect.

1: The Chinese leadership are evil bastards,and still have their little fascist hearts set on dominating Asia,and maybe the world. IMHO,they created it hoping to be able to create a vaccination to use on their invasion troops. There can be NO question that at a MINIMUM their dream is to dominate all of Asia.

Rulers of the World is their maximum dream.

2a: They released it "accidentally" in order to weaken the worlds economy as well as their military. They seem to be the only ones flush with cash these days,and if the 1st world goes bankrupt,they are sitting pretty to step in and buy up factories,or even whole industries.

2b: Trump scares the snot out of them because he can't be bribed or bought,and they wanted/NEEDED to bring him down so a loser like Biden would be the President. When you consider that Pelosi's husband owns the law firm that represents China in the US,the blocks just all seem to fit together.

BTW,I truly don't know which of the above is number 1 and which is number 2. They BOTH might even be number 1 as part of a comprehensive plan.
 

@sneakypete
I don't think it's the Chinese. They may be complicit in their way, but the lab itself was internationally funded, and if it were indeed the Chinese, there would be little gain in loosing it on themselves.

I am more concerned toward the reaction to the virus than the virus itself. The virus is somewhat incidental. But all over the world, nations followed the same draconian steps, with very few outliers... That reactionary continuity is well beyond the Chinese ability to control - So to put it simply, someone or something else controlled that.

Offline Smokin Joe

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@sneakypete
I don't think it's the Chinese. They may be complicit in their way, but the lab itself was internationally funded, and if it were indeed the Chinese, there would be little gain in loosing it on themselves.

I am more concerned toward the reaction to the virus than the virus itself. The virus is somewhat incidental. But all over the world, nations followed the same draconian steps, with very few outliers... That reactionary continuity is well beyond the Chinese ability to control - So to put it simply, someone or something else controlled that.
The way I see it, it got out one of three ways.

The ugliest option, of course, is an intentional release into a population that travels, for the purpose of spreading it all over the planet.
Another option is that the release was accidental, a violation of BSL-4 protocils which allowed the virus to escape the lab and spread.
A third option, is that someone was selling lab animals to the market after the lab was done with them (instead of cremating them), for a little extra money on the side, and that got the virus out.


Whatever the case, where the real damage was done was after the Chinese realized they had a problem.

Instead of shutting down, quarantining the province, and trying to contain the outbreak, the reaction was o destroy samples, destroy records, blame the "wet market" (basically an open air fish market/butcher shop/grocery store) and act like it wasn't a serious problem--until that could no longer be concealed. By that time, the virus was around the world.

That is the part that lends credence to thoughts of intentional transmission/release.

As for reaction being the same all over, well, everyone (country wise) has a pandemic plan gamed out in advance, no matter how thin or poor it is. Most of those plans will be like any disaster response, shaped by the ideas of understanding what is going on, containing the problem, trying to figure out how to treat those affected, and keep it from getting worse. No matter where you are, the go-to steps will be pretty much the same.

Like a house fire, you assess it, find out if anyone is inside and launch rescue efforts, even as you are cutting power to the building/affected part, and taking steps to control the fire. The steps are pretty much the same, no matter where you are.

But in those initial moments of panic/energetic evaluation, the doctors turned to a common source for information, one which was supposed to be a global clearinghouse for information, steps to take, treatments/remedies, and as such had a ready centralized source for erroneous information (WHO), and they all got the same stuff to guide their responses.
This remains the problem with monolithic response patterns, especially when they are run by agencies staffed with people who let their incompetence and prejudices (externally motivated or not) interfere with the ability of thousands of doctors, virologists, and biochemists to adapt existing pharma and technique to fight a disease, only for those doctors and their remedies to be ignored or even decried by the global agency. 

It remains one of my fundamental objections to the concentration of any kind of power, in that solutions to problems can be discovered far more quickly if the results of the efforts of thousands of teams can be weighed, without prejudice and the appropriate steps adopted and rechecked by others without the restrictions imposed by people who have a pecuniary interest in specific other measures. All that need be is a forum for the exchange of information, and that cannot work if some are limiting the access of others because they believe differently or seek another avenue of approach which is more personally profitable.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline DB

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The way I see it, it got out one of three ways.

The ugliest option, of course, is an intentional release into a population that travels, for the purpose of spreading it all over the planet.
Another option is that the release was accidental, a violation of BSL-4 protocils which allowed the virus to escape the lab and spread.
A third option, is that someone was selling lab animals to the market after the lab was done with them (instead of cremating them), for a little extra money on the side, and that got the virus out.


Whatever the case, where the real damage was done was after the Chinese realized they had a problem.

Instead of shutting down, quarantining the province, and trying to contain the outbreak, the reaction was o destroy samples, destroy records, blame the "wet market" (basically an open air fish market/butcher shop/grocery store) and act like it wasn't a serious problem--until that could no longer be concealed. By that time, the virus was around the world.

That is the part that lends credence to thoughts of intentional transmission/release.

As for reaction being the same all over, well, everyone (country wise) has a pandemic plan gamed out in advance, no matter how thin or poor it is. Most of those plans will be like any disaster response, shaped by the ideas of understanding what is going on, containing the problem, trying to figure out how to treat those affected, and keep it from getting worse. No matter where you are, the go-to steps will be pretty much the same.

Like a house fire, you assess it, find out if anyone is inside and launch rescue efforts, even as you are cutting power to the building/affected part, and taking steps to control the fire. The steps are pretty much the same, no matter where you are.

But in those initial moments of panic/energetic evaluation, the doctors turned to a common source for information, one which was supposed to be a global clearinghouse for information, steps to take, treatments/remedies, and as such had a ready centralized source for erroneous information (WHO), and they all got the same stuff to guide their responses.
This remains the problem with monolithic response patterns, especially when they are run by agencies staffed with people who let their incompetence and prejudices (externally motivated or not) interfere with the ability of thousands of doctors, virologists, and biochemists to adapt existing pharma and technique to fight a disease, only for those doctors and their remedies to be ignored or even decried by the global agency. 

It remains one of my fundamental objections to the concentration of any kind of power, in that solutions to problems can be discovered far more quickly if the results of the efforts of thousands of teams can be weighed, without prejudice and the appropriate steps adopted and rechecked by others without the restrictions imposed by people who have a pecuniary interest in specific other measures. All that need be is a forum for the exchange of information, and that cannot work if some are limiting the access of others because they believe differently or seek another avenue of approach which is more personally profitable.

I'll add that the Chinese were actively working with this virus before it got out. They knew a whole lot more about its characteristics than they provided. That withholding of information delayed everything. It had to be studied as people were being infected to gain necessary information about it that was already known to the Chinese.

China has a lot to answer for.