Author Topic: More good news: DACA has been upheld  (Read 4807 times)

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Offline dfwgator

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Re: More good news: DACA has been upheld
« Reply #25 on: June 18, 2020, 04:00:24 pm »
All I know so far is that Roberts wrote the majority opinion.  I will be curious to see how Justices Kavanaugh and Gorsuch voted.  If they sided with the majority, I would put the blame on them too.

Roberts was sold as a conservative jurist, but he was merely a registered Republican.  As we all know now, being a Republican does not mean being conservative.    The party is infested with flaming liberals and has been for many years.  We just didn't know it till recently.

[Edited to add]  Ok, I posted before I read the article you posted above.  So it looks like Gorsuch and Kavanaugh joined with Alito and Thomas in the minority.  Good.  Just too bad they were outnumbered by Roberts and the rest of the libs.

Dumbya sold us down the river.

Offline catfish1957

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Re: More good news: DACA has been upheld
« Reply #26 on: June 18, 2020, 04:03:06 pm »
Bolton is a simple bureaucratic hack. Worse than that, Roberts has tossed out his sworn commitment to the Constitution in favor of protecting his Deep State benefactors.

Someone needs to do an analysis of Robert's voting patterns when it comes to close votes.  I seem to see a trend, and not afraid to accuse him of being blackmailed for ...  well I won't impose that innuendo, but you get the picture. 
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Offline skeeter

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Re: More good news: DACA has been upheld
« Reply #27 on: June 18, 2020, 04:16:25 pm »
Someone needs to do an analysis of Robert's voting patterns when it comes to close votes.  I seem to see a trend, and not afraid to accuse him of being blackmailed for ...  well I won't impose that innuendo, but you get the picture.
True he always seems to side with the left on the big rulings. We get tossed the crumbs so he can maintain some credibility.

Online Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: More good news: DACA has been upheld
« Reply #28 on: June 18, 2020, 04:40:56 pm »
I think Roberts attended too many DC cocktail parties, he's now one of them...

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: More good news: DACA has been upheld
« Reply #29 on: June 18, 2020, 05:38:42 pm »
Trump's not going to do it now ... but he will try again Jan 20, 2021.  I'd like him to just override Obama's EO.

But whatever, I'm sure he's taking another crack at this.

I hope he does.   The problem with rescinding an EO of this kind is that thousands have changed their position as the result of the EO.   All that have come forward have exposed their illegal status but for the EO's protection.

It is hardly a radical notion to require that, when a law changes,  you don't leave high and dry those who relied (in good faith) on the prior law to order their lives.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2020, 05:40:02 pm by Jazzhead »
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: More good news: DACA has been upheld
« Reply #30 on: June 18, 2020, 05:43:43 pm »
I hope he does.   The problem with rescinding an EO of this kind is that thousands have changed their position as the result of the EO.   All that have come forward have exposed their illegal status but for the EO's protection.

It is hardly a radical notion to require that, when a law changes,  you don't leave high and dry those who relied (in good faith) on the prior law to order their lives.

Why? There is no such consideration for others, like Christian bakers.

Offline Applewood

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Re: More good news: DACA has been upheld
« Reply #31 on: June 18, 2020, 05:55:27 pm »
Dumbya sold us down the river.

We were gullible, naïve, whatever you want to call it.  We thought a Republican jurist would be a constitutional conservative.    Learned the hard way it ain't so.

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: More good news: DACA has been upheld
« Reply #32 on: June 18, 2020, 06:31:15 pm »
We were gullible, naïve, whatever you want to call it.  We thought a Republican jurist would be a constitutional conservative.    Learned the hard way it ain't so.

Why does Roberts' recognition that abolishing DACA will jeopardize the expectations of those who came forward in good faith reliance,  and place them at renewed legal risk,  mean that he is not a "constitutional conservative"?

To me,  recognizing the principle of detrimental reliance is inherently conservative,  as a protection of the innocent from the arbitrary power of government.

Or isn't that important to you?
« Last Edit: June 18, 2020, 06:33:49 pm by Jazzhead »
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Offline EdinVA

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Re: More good news: DACA has been upheld
« Reply #33 on: June 18, 2020, 06:37:10 pm »
Speaking on the Senate floor, Sen. Ted Cruz slammed Chief Justice John Roberts and the Supreme Court over their DACA decision, calling it "gamesmanship."

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Offline skeeter

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Re: More good news: DACA has been upheld
« Reply #34 on: June 18, 2020, 06:43:22 pm »
Why does Roberts' recognition that abolishing DACA will jeopardize the expectations of those who came forward in good faith reliance,  and place them at renewed legal risk,  mean that he is not a "constitutional conservative"?

To me,  recognizing the principle of detrimental reliance is inherently conservative,  as a protection of the innocent from the arbitrary power of government.

Or isn't that important to you?
Maybe I’m mistaken but didn’t Trump simply say he wasn’t renewing what was likely an unconstitutional executive order in the first place, and SCOTUS is telling him, essentially, he lacks the authority to even do that much?

Offline roamer_1

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Re: More good news: DACA has been upheld
« Reply #35 on: June 18, 2020, 06:56:56 pm »
We were gullible, naïve, whatever you want to call it.  We thought a Republican jurist would be a constitutional conservative.    Learned the hard way it ain't so.

WERE? Many still ARE.

Offline Applewood

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Re: More good news: DACA has been upheld
« Reply #36 on: June 18, 2020, 07:02:40 pm »
WERE? Many still ARE.

Yep.  And I can think of a former Democrat who registered as a Republican to run in 2016 and I was told he had "evolved."

Offline Applewood

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Re: More good news: DACA has been upheld
« Reply #37 on: June 18, 2020, 07:04:01 pm »
@EdinVA

Thanks for that clip.  But someone please advise Ted to shave that beard.  He looks like a homeless person.  Ick!

Online Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: More good news: DACA has been upheld
« Reply #38 on: June 18, 2020, 07:04:26 pm »
Dumbya sold us down the river.

Think if you will, back to 2006, now I don't remember John Robert's appointment perfectly, but I do remember it, and IIRC any criticism of Bush was due to "Bush Derangement syndrome" and we were a part of Code Pink to question Bush in any way. This was prior to his signing/support of the amnesty bill, before conservatives broke with him in mass.

Offline EdinVA

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Re: More good news: DACA has been upheld
« Reply #39 on: June 18, 2020, 07:04:43 pm »
@EdinVA

Thanks for that clip.  But someone please advise Ted to shave that beard.  He looks like a homeless person.  Ick!
:silly:

Offline roamer_1

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Re: More good news: DACA has been upheld
« Reply #40 on: June 18, 2020, 07:05:09 pm »
Yep.  And I can think of a former Democrat who registered as a Republican to run in 2016 and I was told he had "evolved."

Yeah... sure he did.  *****rollingeyes*****

Online Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: More good news: DACA has been upheld
« Reply #41 on: June 18, 2020, 07:05:14 pm »
:silly:

I think he looks better with the beard.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: More good news: DACA has been upheld
« Reply #42 on: June 18, 2020, 07:08:39 pm »
@EdinVA

Thanks for that clip.  But someone please advise Ted to shave that beard.  He looks like a homeless person.  Ick!

I looked at it with a jaundiced eye too - as being too quaffed.

Mine is almost down to my third button, and my tail is two fists long...   :whistle:

Soon enough it will be too hot and it will all come off... And folks would criticize the onion-head instead. No accounting for it.  :shrug:

Offline Applewood

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Re: More good news: DACA has been upheld
« Reply #43 on: June 18, 2020, 07:24:11 pm »
I looked at it with a jaundiced eye too - as being too quaffed.

Mine is almost down to my third button, and my tail is two fists long...   :whistle:

Soon enough it will be too hot and it will all come off... And folks would criticize the onion-head instead. No accounting for it.  :shrug:

I'm apparently in the minority when it comes to Ted's beard and I've probably insulted every man on this forum who sports a beard.  I'm sorry, but I just don't like beards.  Perhaps you can wear a beard well -- some men can -- but most of the ones I've seen who sport a beard look terrible. 

My brother, for instance.  He grows a beard starting every fall.  He is a skier and he says the extra fur protects his face from the elements when he's on the slopes.  Ok, I'll buy that.  Only...my brother's beard is never even.  One side of his face might have a full beard, but the other side is sparse and straggly.  He could, I suppose, even out both sides. but he doesn't.  And he too looks like a homeless person.  Right now he's clean shaven for summer and his wife is a happy camper -- she doesn't like his beard either.  But in a few months, he will look like a homeless person again.  Ugh!

That all said -- and getting back to the original topic -- bravo to Ted.  His speech was spot on.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: More good news: DACA has been upheld
« Reply #44 on: June 18, 2020, 07:37:32 pm »
I'm apparently in the minority when it comes to Ted's beard and I've probably insulted every man on this forum who sports a beard.  I'm sorry, but I just don't like beards.  Perhaps you can wear a beard well -- some men can -- but most of the ones I've seen who sport a beard look terrible.

It is a cultural thing... Many folks are not into a natural man.
I catch a lot of heck in the cowboy community. Cowboys as a rule remain clean shaven... But they tolerate my hillbilly tendencies. There is great equanimity between cowboys, farmers and hill folk. Women though, not so much. Cowgirls demand a clean-shaven man, for the most part.  So I tend toward HillJillys, who prefer their men entirely natural. The last gal I was with mourned my absent fur in the summer, and could not wait for my hair to grow back. I tried to keep it on for her, but nope. She was overjoyed when it got long enough I could put my throat patch back on (Native decoration she made for me - Looks dumb without the hair)

No, really.  :laugh:

Quote
My brother, for instance.  He grows a beard starting every fall.  He is a skier and he says the extra fur protects his face from the elements when he's on the slopes.  Ok, I'll buy that. 

Good. Because it is absolutely true.

Quote
Only...my brother's beard is never even.  One side of his face might have a full beard, but the other side is sparse and straggly.  He could, I suppose, even out both sides. but he doesn't.  And he too looks like a homeless person.

I have a similar problem - the right side of my face having been subjected to road rash... It eventually catches up, but it is more sparse in the growing of it till it gets full.

Quote
That all said -- and getting back to the original topic -- bravo to Ted.  His speech was spot on.

That's right.

Offline skeeter

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Re: More good news: DACA has been upheld
« Reply #45 on: June 18, 2020, 07:46:17 pm »
Speaking on the Senate floor, Sen. Ted Cruz slammed Chief Justice John Roberts and the Supreme Court over their DACA decision, calling it "gamesmanship."

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This is the Cruz I remember. Teds calling Roberts out as a fraud and he’s right.

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: More good news: DACA has been upheld
« Reply #46 on: June 18, 2020, 08:06:36 pm »
Maybe I’m mistaken but didn’t Trump simply say he wasn’t renewing what was likely an unconstitutional executive order in the first place, and SCOTUS is telling him, essentially, he lacks the authority to even do that much?

Yes, he can eliminate the program.  But he has to address the situations of those who relied on DACA to change their legal position.   No one likes a bait and switch,  especially when the potential consequence is loss of job and deportation.
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: More good news: DACA has been upheld
« Reply #47 on: June 18, 2020, 08:12:24 pm »
Yes, he can eliminate the program.  But he has to address the situations of those who relied on DACA to change their legal position.   No one likes a bait and switch,  especially when the potential consequence is loss of job and deportation.

But if a baker doesn't bake a cake everything he has worked for all his life can be taken.
This is the crap you get with deciders deciding instead of the rule of law.


Offline corbe

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Re: More good news: DACA has been upheld
« Reply #48 on: June 18, 2020, 08:13:36 pm »
   I dislike Roberts with the rest of ya, but his decision says there’s no question President Trump has the power to end DACA but the issue was how he did it.  DACA was not an obummr EO, it was written at the DHS, Cabinet Level.  As usual the Trump Administration f*ced this up but let's hate on Robert's instead, he's an azzhole!

   Trump will try again, after the election, and I suspect he won't screw it up this time.
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Offline libertybele

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Re: More good news: DACA has been upheld
« Reply #49 on: June 18, 2020, 08:15:34 pm »
@EdinVA

Thanks for that clip.  But someone please advise Ted to shave that beard.  He looks like a homeless person.  Ick!

I disagree.  I love Ted's beard!!!
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