Author Topic: Jones, Sessions spar over renaming of military bases  (Read 1500 times)

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Online Fishrrman

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Re: Jones, Sessions spar over renaming of military bases
« Reply #25 on: June 15, 2020, 11:40:07 pm »
Go on, now.

Rename Ft. Gordon to...
... Ft. Sherman (as in William Tecumseh Sherman).

That'll really show 'em...!

Offline Bigun

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Re: Jones, Sessions spar over renaming of military bases
« Reply #26 on: June 15, 2020, 11:48:36 pm »
@Smokin Joe

AND......,it needs to be pointed out to those who went to school in the 60's and later that the original 13 colonies formed a VOLUNTARY UNION after agreeing to accept certain conditions,and having the freedom to withdraw from that union if those conditions were violated.

Which,.....here it comes.......,means they had a LEGAL RIGHT TO SUCCEED,AND THE UNION ARMY WERE AN INVADING FORCE.

 :yowsa: That is absolutely correct in every detail.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

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Online Smokin Joe

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Re: Jones, Sessions spar over renaming of military bases
« Reply #27 on: June 16, 2020, 12:09:36 am »
Typical liberal strawman argument, claim something I never said.

The reality is the Untied States of America as formed was not a treaty among different nations. When the southern states choose to secede they were not breaking a treaty they were tearing a country apart in a civil war. If the southern states had been smart they would have ended slavery and the north would not have had the motivation to fight.

As I said before, I think State sovereignty should prevail as far as statues and flags, etc. goes, but federal (national) locations probably shouldn't honor Confederate generals.
My ancestors signed an Oath to the Sovereign State of Maryland. "State" then, and even as now outside the context since 1865 in the US, meant and means "Country". That State had its own currency before the COnstitution, it's own Governor, Secretary of State, Treasurer, etc. Not as some minor distribution point for Federal Largesse, but as part of its own autonomous government. It also had an Army, as did each of those States, commonly referred to, in its entirety, as "the Militia" (See Barclay's English Dictionary for that definition of Militia, mine is ca. 1820 and I can't provide a link to a print book).
Each of those individual nations had engaged in the Articles of Confederation, retaining their sovereignty, and at no point was that repealed by the new compact of the Constitution, which Preamble states:
Quote
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence,[note 1] promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
...with differences to be sure from the preamble of the Articles of Confederation (and Perpetual Union, a union which was fragmenting already):
Quote
Article I.  The Stile of this confederacy shall be, “The United States of America.”

Article II.  Each state retains its sovereignty, freedom and independence, and every Power, Jurisdiction and right, which is not by this confederation expressly delegated to the United States, in Congress assembled.

Article III.  The said states hereby severally enter into a firm league of friendship with each other, for their common defence, the security of their Liberties, and their mutual and general welfare, binding themselves to assist each other, against all force offered to, or attacks made upon them, or any of them, on account of religion, sovereignty, trade, or any other pretence whatever.

Nothing in the Document (The Constitution, which agreement between the States superseded the Articles of Confederation) prohibited the withdrawal from the compact.

When we read the Declaration of Independence, we see the phrase:
Quote
That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

A Right retained by the people, certainly, to alter or abolish their present form of government and institute new government, whenever Government no longer derived its powers from the consent of the governed, or was found destructive to the ends of securing the Rights of the People.

This Right, an unalienable Right was never ceded to any authority.
Coercion does not a compact make.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online Smokin Joe

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Re: Jones, Sessions spar over renaming of military bases
« Reply #28 on: June 16, 2020, 12:13:42 am »
Okay, I didn't have to go any further than your first mistake.

The Republican party was created out of the abolitionist movement. The 2 principal causes driving the Pubs was ending slavery and polygamy. When Lincoln won the south attempted to secede because they knew slavery was going to be ended.

The election results on the map reflect the politics of the day, and indicate which interests would be represented and which would not. This had been festering since the 1830s, but the battle lines were drawn. Maryland was invaded, beginning the bloodshed in the war (Pratt Street Riots).
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Jones, Sessions spar over renaming of military bases
« Reply #29 on: June 16, 2020, 02:14:17 am »
Okay, I didn't have to go any further than your first mistake.

The Republican party was created out of the abolitionist movement. The 2 principal causes driving the Pubs was ending slavery and polygamy. When Lincoln won the south attempted to secede because they knew slavery was going to be ended.

@bilo

Well,there was a guy living at the time named Abraham Lincoln who said the war had nothing to do with slavery,and if he could reunite the country without a war and the price was leaving slavery in place was the price,he would gladly pay it.

Then again,WTH did Lincoln know about the War of Northern Aggression,right?
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Offline Bigun

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Re: Jones, Sessions spar over renaming of military bases
« Reply #30 on: June 16, 2020, 01:41:15 pm »
Okay, I didn't have to go any further than your first mistake.

The Republican party was created out of the abolitionist movement. The 2 principal causes driving the Pubs was ending slavery and polygamy. When Lincoln won the south attempted to secede because they knew slavery was going to be ended.

You neglected to mention that the Republican Party's formation was greatly aided by many 48ers (the leaders of failed socialist revolts in Europe around 1848 who had escaped to this country a half step ahead of the hangman) many of whom later became high ranking officers in Mr. Lincoln's Army and cabinet.



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"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline catfish1957

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Re: Jones, Sessions spar over renaming of military bases
« Reply #31 on: June 16, 2020, 02:00:10 pm »
@bilo



Then again,WTH did (he) know about the War of Northern Aggression,right?

@sneakypete ...  to add to your argument.

Here's a little game of  ID the person who made this quote:

(1)"I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races - that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything."

(2) "No amendment shall be made to the Constitution which will authorize or give Congress the power to abolish or interfere within any state with the domestic institutions thereof, including that a person's held to labor or service by laws of said State."

(3) “See our present condition—the country engaged in war! Our White men cutting one another’s throats! And then consider what we know to be the truth. But for your race among us there could not be war, although many men engaged on either side do not care for you one way or another. “Why should the people of your race be colonized, and where? Why should they leave this country? This is, perhaps, the first question for proper consideration. You and we are different races. We have between us a broader difference than exists between almost any other two races. Whether it is right or wrong I need not discuss, but this physical difference is a great disadvantage to us both, as I think your race suffer very greatly, many of them by living among us, while ours suffer from your presence. In a word, we suffer on each side. If this be admitted, it affords a reason at least why we should be separated. It is better for both, therefore, to be separated.”

(4)"If I could save the Union without freeing any slaves, I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves, I would do it, and if I could do it by freeing some and leaving others alone, I would also so that"

(5)"Do the people of the South really entertain fear that a Republican administration would directly or indirectly interfere with their slaves, or with them about their slaves? If they do, I wish to assure you that once, as a friend, and still I hope not as an enemy, that there is no cause for such fears. The South would be in no more danger in this respect than it was in the days of Washington."

Answers below:

==================================================================================
(1) Abraham Lincoln- Fourth Debate with Stephen A. Douglas at Charleston, Illinois, September 18, 1858 (The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume III, pp. 145-146.)

(2) Abraham Lincoln-March of 1861

(3) Abraham Lincoln- Spoken at the White House to a group of black community leaders, August 14th, 1862, from COLLECTED WORKS OF ABRAHAM LINCOLN, Vol 5, page 371

(4) Abraham Lincoln-, (Voices of America, p.138)

(5) Abraham Lincoln to Alexander Stephens-Vice President of the Confederacy. Springfield, Ills., Dec. 22, 1860. Public and Private Letters of Alexander Stephens, p. 150.

Reference...   https://ourfoundingtruth.blogspot.com/2009/02/abraham-lincoln-racist.html

Are the BLM and Antifa terrorist going after Lincoln memorials and statues next?
« Last Edit: June 16, 2020, 02:49:16 pm by catfish1957 »
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline Chosen Daughter

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Re: Jones, Sessions spar over renaming of military bases
« Reply #32 on: June 16, 2020, 02:26:59 pm »
I don't even know why we are having an argument about Civil War.  It should never go that far.  Every country has its history and you can either accept it or get the hell out.  That's how I feel.  Native Americans have tried the same stuff.  This High School or football team can't be named this.....blah, blah, blah.

I say shame to our Christian institutions also.  Recently Christianity Today calling for Reparations.  Seriously?

https://www.foxnews.com/faith-values/christianity-today-churches-reparations

I won't read that anymore because that argument is not grounded in Biblical Truth.


BTW Watch former NFL star Ben Watson on the FOX link.  He has the right idea.  Come together and pray.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2020, 02:31:51 pm by Chosen Daughter »
AG William Barr: "I'm recused from that matter because one of the law firms that represented Epstein long ago was a firm that I subsequently joined for a period of time."

Alexander Acosta Labor Secretary resigned under pressure concerning his "sweetheart deal" with Jeffrey Epstein.  He was under consideration for AG after Sessions was removed, but was forced to resign instead.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Jones, Sessions spar over renaming of military bases
« Reply #33 on: June 16, 2020, 02:45:31 pm »
You neglected to mention that the Republican Party's formation was greatly aided by many 48ers (the leaders of failed socialist revolts in Europe around 1848 who had escaped to this country a half step ahead of the hangman) many of whom later became high ranking officers in Mr. Lincoln's Army and cabinet.



https://www.amazon.com/dp/0595446981/ref=rdr_ext_tmb

@Bigun


AND.....,wait for it........,it has also reliably been reported that THEIR ancestors once lived in caves and hunted with clubs and spears!

You heard it hear first!
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Jones, Sessions spar over renaming of military bases
« Reply #34 on: June 16, 2020, 02:53:12 pm »
@sneakypete ...  to add to your argument.

Here's a little game of the ID the person who made this quote:

(1)"I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races - that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything."

(2) "No amendment shall be made to the Constitution which will authorize or give Congress the power to abolish or interfere within any state with the domestic institutions thereof, including that a person's held to labor or service by laws of said State."

(3) “See our present condition—the country engaged in war! Our White men cutting one another’s throats! And then consider what we know to be the truth. But for your race among us there could not be war, although many men engaged on either side do not care for you one way or another. “Why should the people of your race be colonized, and where? Why should they leave this country? This is, perhaps, the first question for proper consideration. You and we are different races. We have between us a broader difference than exists between almost any other two races. Whether it is right or wrong I need not discuss, but this physical difference is a great disadvantage to us both, as I think your race suffer very greatly, many of them by living among us, while ours suffer from your presence. In a word, we suffer on each side. If this be admitted, it affords a reason at least why we should be separated. It is better for both, therefore, to be separated.”

(4)"If I could save the Union without freeing any slaves, I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves, I would do it, and if I could do it by freeing some and leaving others alone, I would also so that"

(5)"Do the people of the South really entertain fear that a Republican administration would directly or indirectly interfere with their slaves, or with them about their slaves? If they do, I wish to assure you that once, as a friend, and still I hope not as an enemy, that there is no cause for such fears. The South would be in no more danger in this respect than it was in the days of Washington."

Answers below:

==================================================================================
(1) Abraham Lincoln- Fourth Debate with Stephen A. Douglas at Charleston, Illinois, September 18, 1858 (The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume III, pp. 145-146.)

(2) Abraham Lincoln-March of 1861

(3) Abraham Lincoln- Spoken at the White House to a group of black community leaders, August 14th, 1862, from COLLECTED WORKS OF ABRAHAM LINCOLN, Vol 5, page 371

(4) Abraham Lincoln-, (Voices of America, p.138)

(5) Abraham Lincoln to Alexander Stephens-Vice President of the Confederacy. Springfield, Ills., Dec. 22, 1860. Public and Private Letters of Alexander Stephens, p. 150.

Reference...   https://ourfoundingtruth.blogspot.com/2009/02/abraham-lincoln-racist.html

Are the BLM and Antifa terrorist going after Lincoln memorials and statues next?


@catfish1957

Yup,"free the slaves!" was just a PR effort by Lincoln to gain support for his effort to wage war on the south in order to "save the union". He had been getting next to zero traction amongst anyone but the NYC banking classes until he came up with that PR campaign.

Suddenly,it became a moral crusade,instead of a war to protect profits for insanely wealthy banking families,and people could get behind that.

If the typical American back then had been more sophisticated/better read,that would have failed because the truth is slavery was on it's last legs anyhow,as farm machines were coming on line that could do more work,quicker AND cheaper than slaves.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Online Smokin Joe

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Re: Jones, Sessions spar over renaming of military bases
« Reply #35 on: June 17, 2020, 04:23:42 am »

@catfish1957

Yup,"free the slaves!" was just a PR effort by Lincoln to gain support for his effort to wage war on the south in order to "save the union". He had been getting next to zero traction amongst anyone but the NYC banking classes until he came up with that PR campaign.

Suddenly,it became a moral crusade,instead of a war to protect profits for insanely wealthy banking families,and people could get behind that.

If the typical American back then had been more sophisticated/better read,that would have failed because the truth is slavery was on it's last legs anyhow,as farm machines were coming on line that could do more work,quicker AND cheaper than slaves.
Actually, "Free the Slaves" was an attempted Economic Sanction (like confiscating tractors or combines today),  as well as done in hopes of causing insurrection in the South and pandering to abolitionists. By Chancellorsville, it nearly caused problems for the Yankees as individual Union troops who would fight to keep the South in the Union were not about to risk their lives to set blacks free. 

Manumission was on the rise, also partly because it was cheaper to hire European immigrants for a wage and let them tend for themselves for their room and board. If one got killed, no biggie, if a slave did, it was an immediate loss of the initial investment.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2020, 04:25:44 am by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis