LIVE THREAD: All hell is breaking loose across America Weekend Thread..Last Part

[Right_in_Virginia]

Andy Ngô
@MrAndyNgo

Rioters hiding behind shields shine powerful lasers at federal officers to blind them. Antifa are organized into many units who carry out specific tasks. Those who aren’t fighting act as barriers, cop watchers, resuppliers & “medics.” This was recorded 25 July. #PortlandRiots

VIDEO:  

https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1287639801718435840

2:43 AM · Jul 27, 2020·Twitter for iPhone

[Right_in_Virginia]

Mike Balsamo
@MikeBalsamo1

The lights inside the courthouse have to be turned off for safety & the light from high-powered lasers bounced across the lobby almost all night. The fear is palpable. Three officers were struck in the last few weeks & still haven’t regained their vision.

Video: 

https://twitter.com/MikeBalsamo1/status/1287606653815156736

12:32 AM · Jul 27, 2020·Twitter Web App

[Right_in_Virginia]

Portland this weekend:

[Cyber Liberty]

We arrest and jail people caught shining these lasers on landing airplanes, so why are we letting these punks off?

[Right_in_Virginia]

Richmond this weekend:

[Right_in_Virginia]

Oakland this weekend:

[libertybele]

We've been over this issue and have already discussed the "timing" of what you think Trump should have already done.   Trump is playing this as he should....cautiously and smartly.  Right now... these riots are illustrating to American voters exactly what the leftist Democrats represent, what they're for and ok with, and how things would be if they are given ultimate power back in November.    At least, that's the message they're getting.   But those of us that know these leftists and know how they roll know that no such "protests" would be allowed by them if they were in complete control.   They would have sent in "the feds" so fast everyone's heads would spin.  (insert pic of jackbooted thugs snatching Elián González from his legal guardians and family)

What you want Trump to have done would have him already under another impeachment proceeding for "acting like a dictator" (something the left has already accused him of), IMO.   Making a threat and not following through with that threat is not impeachable.  Just...sayin.

Do you really think the leftist voting base gives a damn? They're watching their cities burn ... As long as they get rid of Trump they don't care. As long as they can make demands, and get what they want they don't care. They are continuing to tear down this Republic and when they finally succeed in toppling this country and invoke socialism, you won't have to worry about an election.

Again, Trump has the absolute full authority to use the Insurrection Act. When this insurrection starts spreading into the suburbs and the outskirts of our cities ... then maybe you'll wonder why no one is doing a darn thing. 

[libertybele]

We arrest and jail people caught shining these lasers on landing airplanes, so why are we letting these punks off?

??? Why?  Because no one is stopping them.  No one stopped them when this crap first started and they know that they can do whatever the heck they want without consequence.

They are armed with lasers, gas masks, molotov cocktails and guns.  So ... what happened to defending this country???

[libertybele]

...as I predicted .... the violence is now spreading into the smaller towns ...

Crowds launch fireworks at brewery, draw guns on drivers as riots spread from Portland to smaller Oregon city

A small Oregon city less than a two-hour drive from Portland experienced rioting Saturday night as hundreds targeted a county jail and federal courthouse with fireworks before attacking businesses downtown while employees remained trapped inside.

Tactics employed by demonstrators mirrored those seen in Portland – which, as of Sunday, has witnessed 60 consecutive nights of protests and civil unrest in the wake of George Floyd’s death.

An anti-capitalist, anti-fascist group of teens that made a name for themselves in the Portland riots appeared to raise money for the seven adults and one juvenile arrested in Eugene, Ore. Saturday. The Pacific Northwest Youth Liberation Front’s unverified account retweeted messages directing people to use the mobile payment service Venmo to send funds to go toward their bail. .......

.....In Eugene, crowds blocked the streets and prevented one man in a pickup truck from passing, according to conservative journalist Andy Ngo, who made headlines last summer after an attack by members of the far-left militant group Antifa sent him to the hospital. ......

.......After the crowd surrounded his vehicle Saturday night, the driver opened his door and pointed his handgun toward another man wearing a black t-shirt and helmet. The demonstrator pointed his own weapon at the driver through the opened car door window as the two faced off amid shouting from the crowd. The now-viral video of the exchange has garnered more than 1.6 million views as of Monday. ...............

https://www.foxnews.com/us/portland-riots-spread-eugene-oregon-antifa

[aligncare]

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJGt-yq6G0M&feature=youtu.be

Democrats in Congress and their lackeys in media are spitting on the constitutional right to peaceful assembly. And so in reality they’re spitting on YOU, the law abiding American. Remember that on November 3rd.

[libertybele]

Democrats in Congress and their lackeys in media are spitting on the constitutional right to peaceful assembly. And so in reality they’re spitting on YOU, the law abiding American. Remember that on November 3rd.

Peaceful assembly??  Not happening.  IF we actually have an election, I'll be amazed.  Even IF we do have an election, with the combination of COVID and the continued burning of our cities; mail in voting may be the only option allowed. It may not be safe to go to the polls.  Nov. 3rd is 3 months away; how many more cities do you think they'll burn to the ground??

[Right_in_Virginia]

Andrew McCarthy: Trump critics wrongly mount political attack on his use of fed law officers to protect cities
Demagogues aligning themselves with subversives against federal agents are wrong
Fox News, Jul 24, 2020, Andrew C. McCarthy

“Unidentified stormtroopers” is what House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., called the law enforcement agents of the Department of Homeland Security struggling to protect the federal courthouse that Portland, Ore., rioters have been firebombing.

“The president’s personal militia,” chimed in Tom Ridge, the nation’s first Homeland Security secretary.

It’s shameful.

Never is it more critical for the nation’s senior officials and elder statesmen to present a united American front than in times of insurrection. No matter how we may feel about the underlying political grievances, when peaceful protest descends into violent subversion, or — more accurately — when essentially violent subversion is allowed to masquerade as peaceful protest, there needs to be ringing condemnation and support for law enforcement.

Yet, Democrats and Trump-abhorring Republicans cannot get past their petty political score-settling, even for the purpose of supporting law enforcement against violent anti-American radicals.

Taking aim at Trump, and promoting the Democratic narrative that the president is a dictator using federal agents as a military force, Ridge asserted: “It would be a cold day in hell before I would consent to an uninvited, unilateral intervention into one of my cities.”

But DHS performs such missions all the time. One of its component agencies is the Federal Protective Service. FPS’s job, according to its own mission statement, includes the protection of U.S. government “infrastructure, services, and the people who provide or receive them.” This includes providing “integrated security and law enforcement services to more than 9,500 federal facilities nationwide.”

By statute, this includes federal courthouses. Yes, DHS agents go into cities all across the country, every day, uninvited by the state and local governments, and unilaterally protect federal courthouses and other federal property — even when those facilities are not being firebombed, vandalized, and otherwise forcibly attacked by radicals and arsonists.

If DHS agents didn’t do this, they’d be flouting their legal obligations. If the president did not direct them to do this, it would be a dereliction of his solemn constitutional duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed.

More:  https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/protests-chicago-portland-andrew-mccarthy

Just a sampling of what the President is up against @libertybele

[libertybele]

Just a sampling of what the President is up against @libertybele

I'm well aware of what he's up against ....again my point is ... had he gone in when he first announced he was going to --- without announcing what he was going to do -- just used his authority and got the job done, this would be behind us.  He has shown indecisiveness and lack of leadership.  I don't think that there is any doubt, that things are completely out of control and the mayhem is spreading. 

Tom Ridge is absolutely correct; "Never is it more critical for the nation’s senior officials and elder statesmen to present a united American front than in times of insurrection. No matter how we may feel about the underlying political grievances, when peaceful protest descends into violent subversion, or — more accurately — when essentially violent subversion is allowed to masquerade as peaceful protest, there needs to be ringing condemnation and support for law enforcement."

So ... I've said all that I'm going to say on this issue. My opinion is much different than most in here, so I'll refrain from further comment and I'll sit and watch how things unfold for the next 3 mos.

God Bless America and God help us all!

[Cyber Liberty]

I'm well aware of what he's up against ....again my point is ... had he gone in when he first announced he was going to --- without announcing what he was going to do -- just used his authority and got the job done, this would be behind us.  He has shown indecisiveness and lack of leadership.  I don't think that there is any doubt, that things are completely out of control and the mayhem is spreading. 

Tom Ridge is absolutely correct; "Never is it more critical for the nation’s senior officials and elder statesmen to present a united American front than in times of insurrection. No matter how we may feel about the underlying political grievances, when peaceful protest descends into violent subversion, or — more accurately — when essentially violent subversion is allowed to masquerade as peaceful protest, there needs to be ringing condemnation and support for law enforcement."

So ... I've said all that I'm going to say on this issue. My opinion is much different than most in here, so I'll refrain from further comment and I'll sit and watch how things unfold for the next 3 mos.

God Bless America and God help us all!

If troops were sent in without warning, today's lead story in the papers would be the new Impeachment, with the result in doubt this time.  A lot of weak-kneed Pubbie Senators would defect.

Trump gave the warning, and now we wait.  It's the only way it could have been played and maintain a shot at reelection.  Had he said nothing, then that impotence would have been the argument of the day, all day.  It's truly a no-win scenario, but only in the short term. 

[Fishrrman]

RinVa writes:
"Without an invitation from the state's political leadership, sending in federal troops would trigger a legal fight for the ages."

NO.

It will send an immediate message to the communists that we intend to fight back, with the intent of defeating them completely.

I posted the following elsewhere, but I'm gonna repeat it here:
=========================================
The mayor and city council [of Seattle] (under whose authority the police department operates) are communists, and will NEVER do anything to resolve the rioting and lawlessness that is congruent to normal channels of civilian behavior.

It almost sounds like the police chief would honestly attempt to regain control if so allowed, but is being ordered to refrain from any actions which might accomplish this.

There's really going to be only one "solution" for both Seattle and Portland, and I'll go on record as being the first one here to state it:
Go in with federal TROOPS (not agents), go to wherever the city council and/or mayor's office is, and physically REMOVE those individuals from their positions (by force of arms, if necessary).
Then... install a temporary military administrator in their place.
Then... summon the police chief and tell her that she is now under U.S. government authority and will take whatever action is necessary to regain control of the streets and restore civil order.

If this be martial law... then... it is what it is.

I've come to the conclusion that we must do to the blue states and the leftists/communists within, what William Tecumseh Sherman did to Georgia.
(And yet I believe the South was right... about everything)

If this is to be stopped, then we must ACT like we mean to STOP it.
Because if we don't... it's going to "stop" The Republic.

American Timeline:
2019: USA -- United States of America
2027: USSA -- United Socialist States of America
2035: USSSA -- United Soviet Socialist States of America
2042:  ?????

[Cyber Liberty]

RinVa writes:
"Without an invitation from the state's political leadership, sending in federal troops would trigger a legal fight for the ages."

NO.

It will send an immediate message to the communists that we intend to fight back, with the intent of defeating them completely.

Don't you think the communists in the Congress are willing to fight back, at that level?

[Right_in_Virginia]

RinVa writes:
"Without an invitation from the state's political leadership, sending in federal troops would trigger a legal fight for the ages."

NO.

It will send an immediate message to the communists that we intend to fight back, with the intent of defeating them completely.

I get that @Fishrrman  ... but it doesn't change what will quickly become fact:  The city/state will file an injunction in court, which will be granted.  And we won't know the outcome until the suit works its way through the Appellate Court (maybe twice) and then possibly to the Supremes.  This legal action sends a counter-message to the one we've sent. 

Between you and me, I'd prefer not to give John Roberts the deciding vote on the constitutionality of the Insurrection Act.

[libertybele]

I get that @Fishrrman  ... but it doesn't change what will quickly become fact:  The city/state will file an injunction in court, which will be granted.  And we won't know the outcome until the suit works its way through the Appellate Court (maybe twice) and then possibly to the Supremes.  This legal action sends a counter-message to the one we've sent. 

Between you and me, I'd prefer not to give John Roberts the deciding vote on the constitutionality of the Insurrection Act.

???

That's a stretch don't you think, since presidents have been using the Insurrection Act since 1807 and 'W' extended the president's power under this Act?  So to rule it unconstitutional, would mean that Jefferson, Jackson, Hayes, Grant, Cleveland, Wilson, Hoover, Roosevelt, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson and Bush all acted unconstitutionally.  I don't think so.

[XenaLee]

I'm well aware of what he's up against ....again my point is ... had he gone in when he first announced he was going to --- without announcing what he was going to do -- just used his authority and got the job done, this would be behind us.  He has shown indecisiveness and lack of leadership.  I don't think that there is any doubt, that things are completely out of control and the mayhem is spreading. 

Tom Ridge is absolutely correct; "Never is it more critical for the nation’s senior officials and elder statesmen to present a united American front than in times of insurrection. No matter how we may feel about the underlying political grievances, when peaceful protest descends into violent subversion, or — more accurately — when essentially violent subversion is allowed to masquerade as peaceful protest, there needs to be ringing condemnation and support for law enforcement."

So ... I've said all that I'm going to say on this issue. My opinion is much different than most in here, so I'll refrain from further comment and I'll sit and watch how things unfold for the next 3 mos.

God Bless America and God help us all!

Perhaps another reason... and a very good reason... that Trump has not "gone in" and cleared out the rioters destroying property is that there really is no "united front" behind him.   Most of the GOPers are strangely silent.... which indicates that they are too gutless (or complicit with the rioting) to take a stand behind Trump on this.   

[Cyber Liberty]

???

That's a stretch don't you think, since presidents have been using the Insurrection Act since 1807 and 'W' extended the president's power under this Act?  So to rule it unconstitutional, would mean that Jefferson, Jackson, Hayes, Grant, Cleveland, Wilson, Hoover, Roosevelt, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson and Bush all acted unconstitutionally.  I don't think so.

I see your point.  Would a Chief Justice, who previously used an argument not presented in court, to approve O'Bastardcare respect that precedence?  I see the "conservative Justices" on the court supporting the case law, but Roberts lost his conservative moorings a long time ago.

[HoustonSam]

If troops were sent in without warning, today's lead story in the papers would be the new Impeachment, with the result in doubt this time.  A lot of weak-kneed Pubbie Senators would defect.

Trump gave the warning, and now we wait.  It's the only way it could have been played and maintain a shot at reelection.  Had he said nothing, then that impotence would have been the argument of the day, all day.  It's truly a no-win scenario, but only in the short term.

Being quite late to this thread, I apologize if my suggestions have already been debated.

I don't know what is the right political response for Trump to take on the current state of lawlessness.  But I believe the right Constitutional response would be the following :


Local law and order is a local issue.  Consistent with the principles of Federalism found in the Constitution, the US Federal Government will take no independent action regarding specific crimes, real or alleged, the jurisdiction over which is Reserved to the states and to the people.  The citizens of Minneapolis, Portland, Seattle, and every other local government in the country are sovereign over their own local affairs and fully competent to enact their sovereign will through their own local elected leaders.  Those citizens are now enjoying the results for which they have voted, and if they are satisfied with the state of law and order prevailing in their communities then by all means they should continue returning the same elected leaders to local office.

Requests by state and local governments for Federal assistance to local law enforcement will be considered in accord with existing Federal statues.  However no Federal assistance of any kind intended for crime prevention, law enforcement, or recovery of communities destroyed during a breakdown of civic order, will be available to any state or local jurisdiction which willfully refuses to maintain law and order.

Federal law will be enforced without exception in every locality of the United States.  Evidence of Federal crimes or the violation of Constitutional rights should be submitted to the United States Attorney with jurisdiction over the allegation.  Federal law enforcement officers are not "troops" and will enforce Federal authority over the Delegated powers in every square inch of the United States, in numbers determined by the United States Federal Government, with no regard for the statements or preferences of local officials.  Resistance to or interference with Federal law enforcement, or with any other duty of a Federal official, whether committed by individuals, groups, or state and local officials, will be met with overwhelming force of whatever character is necessary to maintain absolute Federal sovereignty over any power delegated in the United States Constitution, followed by vigorous prosecution to the fullest extent allowed in the Federal courts. 

Federal facilities such as monuments, courthouses, and office buildings will be secured by Federal Law enforcement officers.  Federal officials who are placed at risk of permanent harm or death in the conduct of these duties are authorized to respond with deadly force.  Any person in the company of those threatening the security of Federal officials, without regard for their active role in the threat, will be considered as fully participating in the threat and will be in immediate peril of serious physical harm including death and will be later liable for prosecution in the Federal courts.  This policy is effective immediately upon announcement, with the specific effect that lasers will be considered immediate targets for live ammunition.


I would have this policy publicly announced at the WH and the Justice Department and allow no questions in either venue.

[Cyber Liberty]

Being quite late to this thread, I apologize if my suggestions have already been debated.

I don't know what is the right political response for Trump to take on the current state of lawlessness.  But I believe the right Constitutional response would be the following :


Local law and order is a local issue.  Consistent with the principles of Federalism found in the Constitution, the US Federal Government will take no independent action regarding specific crimes, real or alleged, the jurisdiction over which is Reserved to the states and to the people.  The citizens of Minneapolis, Portland, Seattle, and every other local government in the country are sovereign over their own local affairs and fully competent to enact their sovereign will through their own local elected leaders.  Those citizens are now enjoying the results for which they have voted, and if they are satisfied with the state of law and order prevailing in their communities then by all means they should continue returning the same elected leaders to local office.

Requests by state and local governments for Federal assistance to local law enforcement will be considered in accord with existing Federal statues.  However no Federal assistance of any kind intended for crime prevention, law enforcement, or recovery of communities destroyed during a breakdown of civic order, will be available to any state or local jurisdiction which willfully refuses to maintain law and order.

Federal law will be enforced without exception in every locality of the United States.  Evidence of Federal crimes or the violation of Constitutional rights should be submitted to the United States Attorney with jurisdiction over the allegation.  Federal law enforcement officers are not "troops" and will enforce Federal authority over the Delegated powers in every square inch of the United States, in numbers determined by the United States Federal Government, with no regard for the statements or preferences of local officials.  Resistance to or interference with Federal law enforcement, or with any other duty of a Federal official, whether committed by individuals, groups, or state and local officials, will be met with overwhelming force of whatever character is necessary to maintain absolute Federal sovereignty over any power delegated in the United States Constitution, followed by vigorous prosecution to the fullest extent allowed in the Federal courts. 

Federal facilities such as monuments, courthouses, and office buildings will be secured by Federal Law enforcement officers.  Federal officials who are placed at risk of permanent harm or death in the conduct of these duties are authorized to respond with deadly force.  Any person in the company of those threatening the security of Federal officials, without regard for their active role in the threat, will be considered as fully participating in the threat and will be in immediate peril of serious physical harm including death and will be later liable for prosecution in the Federal courts.  This policy is effective immediately upon announcement, with the specific effect that lasers will be considered immediate targets for live ammunition.


I would have this policy publicly announced at the WH and the Justice Department and allow no questions in either venue.

Thanks for your post!  Better late than never, and you still have a life.  I pray it is going well, out in the meat world!

What you describe looks exactly like what's being done, and there have been announcements along the way.

1.  The locals are indeed getting the law enforcement they want, good and hard.  In the case of Portland, Antifa has been participating in violent riots for a couple years now, so the local citizens know full well what happens when the municipal government and rioters are in league.  They reelected the worst, and installed even more radicals as Councilmen.  They did so with eyes wide open, so let them stew.  It's in accordance with Federalism.

2.  Federal assistance is possible, but not logical if the locals permitted the riots and is subject to existing laws.  They must first ask, and they are doing the opposite in the point 4.

3.  Federal Laws that applied when Arkansas tried to prevent school integration still apply.  It's long been established Federal military can move in when any Federal laws are being violated, not just property crimes and Murder.

4.  The Federal authority to protect Federal property and human resources is a fact that cannot be ignored.  The Feds tried and executed Timothy McVeigh for precisely this reason...bombing a Federal Building, and killing Federal employees (and their children).  What do we have today?  Mayors in the worst Hellholes are threatening to arrest Federal Agents exercising their legal authority, under constitutional orders.  The Mayors will fail if any of their threats reach realization.

[HoustonSam]

Thanks for your post!  Better late than never, and you still have a life.  I pray it is going well, out in the meat world!

What you describe looks exactly like what's being done, and there have been announcements along the way.

Thanks for your kind wishes @Cyber Liberty.

I think what's (perhaps) different about my suggestion is that it states in bureaucratic-sounding terms "If you laser a Federal facility tonight, or if you're even standing near someone who does, you are likely to be shot dead in the street, and if you do happen to survive that we're putting a mint on your pillow at the nearest Federal penitentiary."  And a bit less provocatively, it pretty much dares state and local officials to resist.

Hard for me to believe I'm siding with the Feds, it's not my normal posture.  But there *are* Delegated Powers, and just as the Reserved Powers must be respected, so must the Delegated Powers be respected as well.

[Bigun]

Thanks for your kind wishes @Cyber Liberty.

I think what's (perhaps) different about my suggestion is that it states in bureaucratic-sounding terms "If you laser a Federal facility tonight, or if you're even standing near someone who does, you are likely to be shot dead in the street, and if you do happen to survive that we're putting a mint on your pillow at the nearest Federal penitentiary."  And a bit less provocatively, it pretty much dares state and local officials to resist.

Hard for me to believe I'm siding with the Feds, it's not my normal posture.  But there *are* Delegated Powers, and just as the Reserved Powers must be respected, so must the Delegated Powers be respected as well.

FWIW, I agree with you completely @HoustonSam

[libertybele]

Thanks for your post!  Better late than never, and you still have a life.  I pray it is going well, out in the meat world!

What you describe looks exactly like what's being done, and there have been announcements along the way.

1.  The locals are indeed getting the law enforcement they want, good and hard.  In the case of Portland, Antifa has been participating in violent riots for a couple years now, so the local citizens know full well what happens when the municipal government and rioters are in league.  They reelected the worst, and installed even more radicals as Councilmen.  They did so with eyes wide open, so let them stew.  It's in accordance with Federalism.

2.  Federal assistance is possible, but not logical if the locals permitted the riots and is subject to existing laws.  They must first ask, and they are doing the opposite in the point 4.

3.  Federal Laws that applied when Arkansas tried to prevent school integration still apply.  It's long been established Federal military can move in when any Federal laws are being violated, not just property crimes and Murder.

4.  The Federal authority to protect Federal property and human resources is a fact that cannot be ignored.  The Feds tried and executed Timothy McVeigh for precisely this reason...bombing a Federal Building, and killing Federal employees (and their children).  What do we have today?  Mayors in the worst Hellholes are threatening to arrest Federal Agents exercising their legal authority, under constitutional orders.  The Mayors will fail if any of their threats reach realization.

No. Under the Insurrection Act they do not have to be asked. 

In 2016, Public Law 114-328 was amended to include Guam and the US Virgin Islands under Ch. 13 jurisdiction. §252: "Use of militia and armed forces to enforce Federal authority" currently reads:

    Whenever the President considers that unlawful obstructions, combinations, or assemblages, or rebellion against the authority of the United States, make it impracticable to enforce the laws of the United States in any State by the ordinary course of judicial proceedings, he may call into Federal service such of the militia of any State, and use such of the armed forces, as he considers necessary to enforce those laws or to suppress the rebellion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insurrection_Act_of_1807