Author Topic: BREAKING: Footage shows George Floyd ATTACKING officers before he died  (Read 7860 times)

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Online roamer_1

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Or you can look at it .... he was able to speak until he was no longer breathing.

Either way ... it doesn't rule out excessive force or being traumatized.  Drug use and heart disease could obviously be a factor, but if he wasn't under the trauma of having a knee to the neck, would he have survived?  Quite possibly yes.

The knee to the neck does not block the airway.

Online roamer_1

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Just some thoughts that been rattlin' around in my melon today.

Good post.

Online roamer_1

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Well, .... let's take the race card out of the scenario first of all.  The man's hands were handcuffed BEHIND his back.  He DIED while an officer had his knee on his neck while stating that he couldn't breathe.  It doesn't matter how many cops have used this method before, nor does it matter how many arrested have used the tactic that they can't breathe.  A man died while handcuffed with a cop's knee on his neck.  Doesn't matter why the knee was on the neck; at that point in time that cop wasn't in danger. 

OR they kept him pinned to prevent him from doing further injury to himself.

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The cop had control of the man and used enough force to kill him.  Period.

Not true. What would result is a broken neck, not a blocked airway.

Offline Absalom

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I read one article which said that he died later at the hospital.   And the toxicology report will probably never be released or if it is, it may not be ","truthful"".   I'm betting that he had major drugs in his system, but the narrative is to show the guy was a poor, innocent black just trying to get his life together.   And the autopsy by the family will probably show nothing different.   They'll be looking to cash in, like the others before them.
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Floyd died of asphyxia, per an independent autopsy caused
by leg pressure and the charge was raised to MURDER 1.
Another bullseye. Well done!!!

Offline aligncare

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By the way, many cardiovascular problems can cause dyspnea (shortness of breath). Autopsy found Mr. Floyd had cardiovascular disease. If it was advanced disease it could certainly have added, in that tense situation, the possibility of the onset of dyspnea.

Offline libertybele

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@roamer_1  George Floyd's family releases independent autopsy showing death caused by asphyxia from sustained pressure

Attorneys for George Floyd's family released the results of an independent autopsy report Monday showing that Floyd's death was caused by asphyxia due to neck and back compression that led to a lack of blood flow to the brain.

The family's attorney, Ben Crump, announced the autopsy results during an afternoon news conference. Crump said the autopsy found the compression cut off blood to Floyd's brain, and weight on his back made it hard to breathe.


https://www.foxnews.com/us/results-of-george-floyd-independent-autopsy-expected-today
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Online roamer_1

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Although even someone resisting arrest cannot be deliberately killed. I think Chauvin might just be one of those really stupid persons with a Big Man complex. I don't know what was going through his head. You would think if you had your knee on the neck of person for nine minutes who was not struggling, you'd take it off when the struggle ceased.
No matter what different autopsies say, Floyd would most likely not be dead if Chauvin hadn't put his knee on his neck for nine minutes.
Just stupid and senseless.

Look closely at the footage. Floyd raises his head... even his neck raises. There is no pressure coming from that knee, or he would be stapled down hard.

Offline catfish1957

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------------------------------------
Floyd died of asphyxia, per an independent autopsy caused
by leg pressure and the charge was raised to MURDER 1.
Another bullseye. Well done!!!

So the DA's office raised the Murder charge from 3 to 1 based on an independent autopsy report versus his own County's M.E. findings?  That doesn't sound correct or make sense.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2020, 09:12:33 pm by catfish1957 »
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Online roamer_1

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The independent autopsy has been completed.  Death by asphyxiation.  The results are consistent with what everyone has seen on film.  He was more than subdued.

Flat out wrong. I would question the veracity (bias) of the coroner. Certainly for play in the press. I would wager the full autopsy - the one that actually has to stand up in court (likely in another venue) will be the one to tell the tale.

And what people see, they see in ignorance. I am telling you, you cannot be choked out with that hold. Your neck would break first.

Online roamer_1

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So the DA's office raised the Murder charge from 3 to 1 based on an independent autopsy report versus his own County's findings?  That doesn't sound correct or make sense.

Politics. We will see how it holds up at trial. The feds are in it too. See how their report reads in...

Offline libertybele

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Flat out wrong. I would question the veracity (bias) of the coroner. Certainly for play in the press. I would wager the full autopsy - the one that actually has to stand up in court (likely in another venue) will be the one to tell the tale.

And what people see, they see in ignorance. I am telling you, you cannot be choked out with that hold. Your neck would break first.

@roamer_1 I believe what you are telling me ... we now have 2 different autopsy reports.  The one that the family hired is noted in controversial cases; one being Epstein.

How is either report going to be proven incorrect unless there's yet a 3rd autopsy, but if that isn't to the liking of the family, then a 4th, etc?  There has to be a solution.
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Online roamer_1

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@roamer_1 I believe what you are telling me ... we now have 2 different autopsy reports.  The one that the family hired is noted in controversial cases; one being Epstein.

How is either report going to be proven incorrect unless there's yet a 3rd autopsy, but if that isn't to the liking of the family, then a 4th, etc?  There has to be a solution.

No we have one PRELIMINARY report
and one hasty report made in rebuttal, that cannot begin to consider everything. There is no way they have tox screening back, as an instance.

We will see if the actual coroner is willing to change his findings based upon the new findings. I will bet money he won't.

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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He was still handcuffed.  Video footage showed that he was handcuffed; hands behind his back BEFORE he was on the ground with a knee to his neck. So...what threat did he pose?  Not like he can strike out at anyone. Again, his hands were handcuffed behind his back with a knee to his neck.  So ... how much danger was he at that point?  He said he couldn't breathe ...whether or not the autopsy comes back with signs of asphyxiation or not .... he died while handcuffed; hands behind his back with a cop's knee to his neck.   He didn't die from gunshots, didn't die on route to the holding cell, didn't die after he was processed ... he died while his hands were handcuffed behind his back with a knee on his neck stating several times he couldn't breathe.  Sorry IMHO, he was cuffed. He was contained.  He was killed.

He was under arrest for supposedly passing a phony $20.00 ... we will never know the outcome because he will never have his day in court.  $20.00 for a life.
We are not disagreeing.  A big man fighting back against cops trying to restrain him is not easy to deal with, and a throw down seemed warranted.

What does not appear warranted was a continued restraint like the officer did on his neck.

And BTW, a handcuffed man on the ground can still land very strong kicks to the groin or abdomen.  Don't know if that happened or not, but can certainly cause a more aggressive restraint.
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Online roamer_1

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What does not appear warranted was a continued restraint like the officer did on his neck.

Again, I will reiterate, anecdotally, that the cops I spoke to about this seem to think that he was probably restraining him so he did not cause himself more injury. The ambulance was already nearly there, and perhaps it was determined to leave him thus rather than to fight getting him into the car sommore.

I DO agree with a failure to render aid. I DO agree the cop should have attended him.
But that assumes he knew. For all he knew the guy passed out, if he knew at all. Maybe he thought he had just calmed down.

That I think is probably true. I do not believe that decorated cop would purposefully kill a man in full view of a crowd full of cameras. Likewise I do not believe he broke protocol, for the same reason. The same goes for the other cops involved. I do not believe they would intentionally disregard his fate, if not for their humanity (which I would presume) then for the bare fact they were being filmed.

I hope that cooler heads will prevail.


Offline LMAO

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Again, I will reiterate, anecdotally, that the cops I spoke to about this seem to think that he was probably restraining him so he did not cause himself more injury. The ambulance was already nearly there, and perhaps it was determined to leave him thus rather than to fight getting him into the car sommore.

I DO agree with a failure to render aid. I DO agree the cop should have attended him.
But that assumes he knew. For all he knew the guy passed out, if he knew at all. Maybe he thought he had just calmed down.

That I think is probably true. I do not believe that decorated cop would purposefully kill a man in full view of a crowd full of cameras. Likewise I do not believe he broke protocol, for the same reason. The same goes for the other cops involved. I do not believe they would intentionally disregard his fate, if not for their humanity (which I would presume) then for the bare fact they were being filmed.

I hope that cooler heads will prevail.

All this will be figured out over time. Either by an investigation or during the course of a trial
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Offline skeeter

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So the DA's office raised the Murder charge from 3 to 1 based on an independent autopsy report versus his own County's M.E. findings?  That doesn't sound correct or make sense.
Why don't they just remand the cop to the custody of the Floyd family and be done with it?

Offline mortarman

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@roamer_1  George Floyd's family releases independent autopsy showing death caused by asphyxia from sustained pressure

Attorneys for George Floyd's family released the results of an independent autopsy report Monday showing that Floyd's death was caused by asphyxia due to neck and back compression that led to a lack of blood flow to the brain.

The family's attorney, Ben Crump, announced the autopsy results during an afternoon news conference. Crump said the autopsy found the compression cut off blood to Floyd's brain, and weight on his back made it hard to breathe.


https://www.foxnews.com/us/results-of-george-floyd-independent-autopsy-expected-today

Bennie Crump. Now where have I heard that name before? Oh right. He's the slimy bambulance chaser who convinced the families of the"Gentle Giant" in Ferguson an' Sock Monkey's adopted son in Florida to sue, didn't he?

 :pop41:
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Offline Axeslinger

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@roamer_1 @libertybele

Actually I think in large part you’re probably both right.   As I noted in my long post on the last page (thanks for the kudos roamer), there were three officers on him.   That neck hold is used all the time, but the optics of that hold and the fact the man died ain’t gonna win any court cases.   But the other cop, who was on his back probably greatly exacerbated any issues that were occurring.  You’re not gonna choke out from that shin to the neck, but 200lbs on your back where it’s harder to expand your lungs with every exhale?  Yep. 

I will be amazed if there are not two cops locked up before this is done.

But again:  he would be alive had he not resisted and the LEOs are screwed due to negligence if nothing else.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2020, 10:23:07 pm by Axeslinger »
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Online roamer_1

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That neck hold is used all the time, but the optics of that hold and the fact the man died ain’t gonna win any court cases.   But the other cop, who was on his back probably greatly exacerbated any issues that were occurring.  You’re not gonna choke out from that shin to the neck, but 200lbs on your back where it’s harder to expand your lungs with every exhale?  Yep. 

I will be amazed if there are not two cops locked up before this is done.

But again:  he would be alive had he not resisted and the LEOs are screwed due to negligence if nothing else.

@Axeslinger

That's probably right. The guy on his back would cause breathing issues, and that entirely depends upon how long he remained there. But they KNOW that. I do not know how long he was under the swarm, but as that generally occurs, once the head pin is accomplished and cuffs applied (applied earlier in this case), the swarm lets up. I would not expect that particular part lasted very long.

Negligence is likely perhaps. But I don't think it was intended.

Online roamer_1

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All this will be figured out over time. Either by an investigation or during the course of a trial

Yes.  :beer:

Offline Axeslinger

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Typical. Has happened to me too.
@roamer_1
Above was in response to @truth_seeker question about were there multiple cops on him at once.

Absolutely!   They police are not in the business of a “fair fight”.   They are in the business of overwhelming you to make sure they go home that night.   ZERO problems with that.   Zero problems with knee on the neck, zero problems with another LEO w a knee on a back etc.


BIG problem with 8 minutes.  BIG problem with continuation after compliance...he was most assuredly compliant while unconscious.   Like almost every one of these cases:  the deceased brought the action on himself...BUT that does not necessarily preclude guilt on the part of LE.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2020, 10:36:06 pm by Axeslinger »
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Offline Axeslinger

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@Axeslinger

That's probably right. The guy on his back would cause breathing issues, and that entirely depends upon how long he remained there. But they KNOW that. I do not know how long he was under the swarm, but as that generally occurs, once the head pin is accomplished and cuffs applied (applied earlier in this case), the swarm lets up. I would not expect that particular part lasted very long.

Negligence is likely perhaps. But I don't think it was intended.
@roamer_1

I think (!!!) all three were on him most or all of those 8minutes.
And I agree it was not intentional...but they are probably still criminally liable.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2020, 10:38:38 pm by Axeslinger »
"The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first." - Thomas Jefferson

Online roamer_1

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@roamer_1
Above was in response to @truth_seeker question about were there multiple cops on him at once.

Absolutely!   They police are not in the business of a “fair fight”.   They are in the business of overwhelming you to make sure they go home that night.   ZERO problems with that.   Zero problems with knee on the neck, zero problems with another LEO w a knee on a back etc.

Actually, that swarm technique is benign. If they were serious, he;d have been tazed or worse.

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BIG problem with 8 minutes.  BIG problem with continuation after compliance...he was most assuredly compliant while unconscious.   Like almost every one of these cases:  the deceased brought the action on himself...BUT that does not necessarily preclude guilt on the part of LE.

Again, watch the film closely. He is not pinned with force. He can lift his head, and his neck even comes up a little bit. BELIEVE ME, if that cop was transmitting pressure to his neck he would have been screaming like a little girl. I know I did.

The cop's position was more of a close-order watch. And that is exactly how it is normally done. the cop lets up for compliance. for even a little squirming, very little pressure bearing down gives incredible pain. The close-order on that position means that pressure can be supplied instantaneously as needed. But that pressure is not applied with compliance. Compliance is the goal.

I spent some time like that while a bar fight was getting sorted out. Maybe not 10 minutes, but over five, while everything was getting sorted and waiting for the paddy wagon to show up. Too many participants to secure in any other fashion.


Online Fishrrman

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catfish wrote:
"So the DA's office raised the Murder charge from 3 to 1 based on an independent autopsy report versus his own County's M.E. findings?  That doesn't sound correct or make sense."

C'mon, man...
Who's now in charge of this here "investigation"?

Online roamer_1

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@roamer_1

I think (!!!) all three were on him most or all of those 8minutes.
And I agree it was not intentional...but they are probably still criminally liable.

@Axeslinger

No, I don't buy that. Most of the vid I saw three of the four cops are standing around, with the other on his neck.