The M1 Carbine: 10 Little-Known Facts

[Elderberry]

American Rifleman  by Mark Keefe - Thursday, May 14, 2020

The “U.S. Carbine, Caliber .30, M1” was the most produced American infantry arm of World War II. And it's back in production today. As this is written, my cheek is gleefully stained with linseed oil (either that or I have jaundice) from test-firing the M1 Carbine and M1A1 Paratrooper Carbines as made today by Inland Manufacturing in Dayton, Ohio.

The guns look great and capture the nostalgia and function of the originals made from 1942 to 1945 (read an earlier review by B. Gil Horman here and watch a video of it being fired at SHOT Show 2015). But carbines go much further than their use by the “Greatest Generation” during World War II.

Here are some things you may or may not have known about the gun that started out as the U.S. Army’s “Light Rifle.”

1. The M1 Carbine as a round is ballistically effective.

Remember, the M1 Carbine was designed to replace the M1911A1 in the hands of support troops, machine gunners, etc., whoever did not need a full-size rifle. No one doubts it is better than a pistol at any but the shortest of ranges, and, unlike Marines at “Frozen Chosin,” you can use modern defensive ammo.

More: https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2020/5/14/the-m1-carbine-10-little-known-facts/

[skeeter]

I used to own a '44 Inland version shipped from RK in the early 90s. Fun to shoot but I always had trouble recycling with the wimpy recoil spring.

[Elderberry]

I have what started out life as a Universal 256 Ferret Carbine. It was chambered in .256 Win Mag, a necked down 357 Magnum. It extracted so damn hot the extractor would rip thru the case heads. Even the gunsmith I took it to couldn't get it to behave. So I rebarreled it with a well well worn GI barrel and changed out the parts to now run the Carbine ammo. Now it had very weak cycling. I tried springs. No joy. I discovered the gas cylinder was too wallowed out. I circularized it as much as I could. Now it was too oversize for any of the gas pistons I tried. So I made my own piston. It works like a charm now.

[skeeter]

I have what started out life as a Universal 256 Ferret Carbine. It was chambered in .256 Win Mag, a necked down 357 Magnum. It extracted so damn hot the extractor would rip thru the case heads. Even the gunsmith I took it to couldn't get it to behave. So I rebarreled it with a well well worn GI barrel and changed out the parts to now run the Carbine ammo. Now it had very weak cycling. I tried springs. No joy. I discovered the gas cylinder was too wallowed out. I circularized it as much as I could. Now it was too oversize for any of the gas pistons I tried. So I made my own piston. It works like a charm now.

Huh. Wish I’d known this before I sold the thing.

[sneakypete]

@Elderberry

1. The M1 Carbine as a round is ballistically effective.

No,it's not. It was originally a pistol round. Being fired from a carbine does nothing to change this. Unless it was a head or heart shot,it took multiple hits to even make an enemy feel unwell.

I knew a Major in VN that was standing at a sink shaving when a VN "striker" came in and shot him in the back 4 times with a 30 cal M1 carbine,and the Major strangled  him to death and walked to the dispensary to have his wounds treated.

Granted,he was weak when he got there and was a sick puppy for a while,but he survived and went back on duty after he recovered.

It took a hit to the brain or heart to bring an enemy down for the count.

Remember, the M1 Carbine was designed to replace the M1911A1 in the hands of support troops, machine gunners, etc., whoever did not need a full-size rifle.

No,it wasn't. It replaced the M1 Garand because they didn't need a full-sized,full-power main battle rifle,and this freed up the issue of those rifles to the infantry troops that really did need such a rifle.

Support troops in front line areas were still issued 1911's so they would have a firearm on their web belts they could use in emergencies. The old "use to fight your way to a real gun." thing.

As a normal part of his daily routine,an infantryman in a front line environment carries his main battle rifle (M1 Garand at that time) with him  everywhere he goes. A support soldier such as a truck driver,signals clerk,and even people like tank crewmen and artillery crewmen had no need for a main battle rifle,and would only need a rifle in an emergency,so the army came up with the cheaper and easier to produce as well as handle M1 Carbine to give these people a rifle to use in emergencies,and to free up more Garands for front line infantry troops.

The support troops and people like tank crews  and MP's STILL carried 1911's in either shuolder holsters or on their canteen belts because they were not expected to be in gun fights,and carrying a rifle,even a carbine,often got in the way of doing their normal jobs. Think "my 1911 is a gun I can use to fight my way to a REAL gun.",and you have it.

When dealing with enemy infantry armed with infantry weapons,a handgun is one step above throwing rocks,but a BIG step.

[mortarman]

I was taught by my drill sergeant that the M1911A1 was a last resort weapon. He said if it got to the point where you had to pull out your pistol it was time to bug out because you were being overrun.

 

[sneakypete]

I was taught by my drill sergeant that the M1911A1 was a last resort weapon. He said if it got to the point where you had to pull out your pistol it was time to bug out because you were being overrun.

 

@mortarman

The idea was to try to use it to shoot your way to a REAL gun,which at that time meant a semi-or full auto 30/06.

Yes,the 45 ACP and the 1911A1 were a match made in heaven,and I do love every one I own,but they ain't a Garand or a (be still my beating heart,,,,,) BAR.

[sneakypete]

I was taught by my drill sergeant that the M1911A1 was a last resort weapon. He said if it got to the point where you had to pull out your pistol it was time to bug out because you were being overrun.

 

BTW,your drill sgt was right in your case because you weren't a infantryman that normally operated a BAR or some sort of lesser firearm. You operated a mortar,and your personal weapon was a 1911A1 or/and a M-1 Carbine.

LOTS of infantry guys have used a 1911A1 to get some breathing room so they could clear a jam or reload rifles you didn't even have.

[mortarman]

BTW,your drill sgt was right in your case because you weren't a infantryman that normally operated a BAR or some sort of lesser firearm. You operated a mortar,and your personal weapon was a 1911A1 or/and a M-1 Carbine.

LOTS of infantry guys have used a 1911A1 to get some breathing room so they could clear a jam or reload rifles you didn't even have.

Hold on there buddy boy. The official MOS for mortars is 11C10. That stands for Indirect Fire Infantryman. We had to go through every bit the same training as 11 Bravos (regular infantrymen) plus a week where we learned to set up, aim, plot fire missions an' (best of all) fire the mortar. If anything, we are infantrymen plus. We even wear the Crossed Springfield Rifles on our collars an' are eligible for both the Expert Infantry Badge an' the Combat Infantry Badge. We even carried the same weapons as regular infantry.

 

[sneakypete]

Hold on there buddy boy. The official MOS for mortars is 11C10. That stands for Indirect Fire Infantryman. We had to go through every bit the same training as 11 Bravos (regular infantrymen) plus a week where we learned to set up, aim, plot fire missions an' (best of all) fire the mortar. If anything, we are infantrymen plus. We even wear the Crossed Springfield Rifles on our collars an' are eligible for both the Expert Infantry Badge an' the Combat Infantry Badge. We even carried the same weapons as regular infantry.

 

@mortarman

Yes,but you were assigned to the heavy weapons platoon,right? So normally,you would carry a 45 and/or a M-1 carbine/grease gun.

BTW,is it normal to give CIB's to 11C's in the regular army who are not filling a 11B spot?

I knew people in SF who ran recon and were shot at several times (probing fire),but didn't get CIB's because they weren't in direct combat and exchanging fire with an armed enemy.

BTW-2,I also knew several people with support jobs that picked up a M-16 and went to war when the camp they were in was being over-ran that were awarded both an 11B MOS and a CIB.

[mortarman]

@mortarman

Yes,but you were assigned to the heavy weapons platoon,right? So normally,you would carry a 45 and/or a M-1 carbine/grease gun.

BTW,is it normal to give CIB's to 11C's in the regular army who are not filling a 11B spot?

I knew people in SF who ran recon and were shot at several times (probing fire),but didn't get CIB's because they weren't in direct combat and exchanging fire with an armed enemy.

BTW-2,I also knew several people with support jobs that picked up a M-16 and went to war when the camp they were in was being over-ran that were awarded both an 11B MOS and a CIB.

Actually I was assigned to an' armored cavalry troop an' our mortar tracks were spread out amongst the line platoons. We patrolled the East/West German border an' often times I had to go on patrol as an infantryman. My role on the crew was assistant gunner which meant I aided the gunner in aiming the gun an' I fired it.i was issued a M203A1 (M16A1 with a 40 mm. grenade launcher attached - over/under configuratipn). It wasn't 'til my last year in (1979) that we actually form a mortar platoon. I served from 1976 to 1980.

An' yes, I knew of several 11Cs who were awarded the CIB. One of whom was my First Sergeant. An' his had two stars on it (he jumped at Normandy with the 101st).

 

[sneakypete]

Actually I was assigned to an' armored cavalry troop an' our mortar tracks were spread out amongst the line platoons.

[/quote]

@mortarman

I am no authority at this,given that my total exposure to armored units was watching them pass by our camp in convoys,or passing them on the road from Kontum to Pleiku as they escorted the daily artillery shell resupply convoy to Kontum. Not positive they were armored Calvary,or just MP's in those little "tanks with wheels",though.

In SF you didn't get a CIB unless you got into gun fights face to face with the enemy,and were both fired on and returned fire.

Our camp commander was a LTC who had been an armor officer during the Korean War,and had even won a SS and Purple Heart there. Then he switched to SF in the late 50's,and was one of the few officers you would see running around without a CIB.

So he decided to fix this problem by going on a recon mission into Laos with a recon team,and asked SSG Joe Walker if he could go on a mission with him and his team. Joe told him "Ok,but you have to carry the radio,follow my orders,and agree that it is ok for me to kill you if it looks like we are going to be overran."  I know this because Joe told me about it.

I happened to be on radio watch on our remote radio relay site on a mountain top in Laos that was named "Leghorn" when the Colonel made an emergency radio call for air-cover stating "We are under......",and was then drowned out by AK fire and explosions. Joe's team had made point contact with a large NVA element,and were obviously under fire and on the run.

I called in the emergency to our base camp,and the panic began. They ended up being in a running gunfight with the NVA for two days and part of another before they could be pulled out.

When they got out I found out why the conversation had ended so abruptly. The Colonel hadn't been killed,but the handset HAD been shot out of his hand.

Let's just say the Colonel earned his CIB.

When you consider he was already in his late 40's or so and already had a SS and PH and had nothing to prove to anyone,you can see how important a CIB is in SF.

I actually had a couple of friends on other recon teams that went on missions in Laos and Cambodia that were fired on by the NVA,but couldn't return fire without giving away their positions. Because they weren't able to return fire,they left VN without a CIB.

CIB's are a VERY big deal to infantrymen.

BTW,I AM aware that there were genuine infantrymen attached to Armored Cav units to provide security and deploy on attacks. I would sometimes see them riding around in those armored things that IIRC,had open tops and a big door in the rear that dropped down.  I do think it was a slight exaggeration to call them "armored",though. IIRC,they would repel AK fire,but a B-40 would turn one into a smoking hulk. I wanted NO part of riding around in a steel coffin.