Georgia shooting of Ahmaud Arbery spurs outcry

[LegalAmerican]

Accused of the crime of living with mother.

Accused of the crime of jogging without jogging shoes.

Found guilty, executed.

 Just CORRECTING.....the false narrative.   No accusation....no found guilty, or executed.
  This is why people need to listen to video's.  You obviously are not.  My favorite guys, who tell the truth and have facts.




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[LegalAmerican]

The thing is the white guys had no idea if had done anything wrong. Walking into a marked construction site is hardly a major crime.
It didn't look like Arbery was lugging lumber or construction material on his shoulders. Because he wasn't.
These white guys saw a black guy running down the street whom they thought might be someone who, in their minds,  just committed a crime.
BUT THEY HAD NO IDEA WHAT HE'D BEEN DOING!!!
They just stopped him, and POINTED A LOADED WEAPON AT HIM!!!
There are white thieves around where I live. They broke up a white burglary ring in my area last year.
I doubt any white guy out jogging/running would like the idea of some people driving up to him, jumping out of their car, and pointing a loaded weapon at him because he resembled somebody they knew who had committed a crime.
Again, if they thought the guy had committed a crime, they should have called the proper authorities.

Wrong narrative.   They told him to STOP, stay, that police were called. They were holding him till police were coming.
They knew of his prior crimes.

Abrey has a shot in his hand when HE ATTACKED Travis to take his gun by the barrel.  Most of you need to write FICTION.

Amazing.


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[LegalAmerican]

There may be a murder "charge", but there will be no conviction.

This guy Arbery WAS NOT just "jogging' in the neighborhood". He was likely up to no good. The first video (of him casing out the property under construction) proves that.

Of course, that doesn't justify shooting him in cold blood.
But... it WASN'T quite "cold blood".

The black guy turned and then attacked the younger man holding the shotgun, I believe he even yanked at the barrel. Could this have been "the force" that caused the weapon to discharge, at least the first time that injured his hand?

The son may end up with a negligent homicide/involuntary manslaughter conviction. A few years at most.
The father will probably be acquitted, or receive even a lesser charge at worst.

I DO like people who can 'see' and think clearly.   ^ 5.

Yes. Abrey tired to get Travis's gun. WHY?  If Travis & father were shot to death...no media would care. 

[mountaineer]

They told him to STOP, stay, that police were called. They were holding him till police were coming.They knew of his prior crimes.

The question is whether they had any legal authority to hold him. Not having witnessed him actually committing a felony, that seems unlikely. His past crimes are irrelevant, by the way. You can't "citizen's arrest" someone just because he may have a criminal record.

[LegalAmerican]

.

Couldn't you just say the mayor of Atlanta's rhetoric says that white people are to bend over backwards to allow black people to have their way in crime? What is the difference?

BINGO!   

[mountaineer]

Analysis by Dana Loesch:
The Killing of Ahmaud Arbery.

Some snippets:

... 

    Georgia does not make it easy for citizens to go around arresting each other. Citizens are entitled to use reasonable force to arrest people who have committed crimes in their presence or immediate knowledge (courts have held that these are synonymous). Here is the statute:
    “A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion.”
    The most important part of this statute is the unwritten bit — you are allowed to make arrests only with “reasonable force.” You can’t burn down an orphanage to catch one child snatching extra bowls of gruel. And the Georgia Supreme Court has held, as a matter of law, that you can’t chase someone down with a weapon because you think they have committed burglary.

Irresponsibly holding someone under the claim of citizen’s arrest without meeting the litmus test required by law may earn you some sort of unlawful detainment charge.

So there wasn’t any clear evidence tying Arbery to any burglary other than the McMichaels claim that they saw him at a construction site and assumed he was a burglar. Furthermore, there is nothing to justify the McMichaels’s pursuit.  ...

And no — private citizens do not have the right to stop the actions or movement of other private citizens and if someone in a vehicle demands you stop to talk to them you are under zero obligation — legal or otherwise — to do so. Besides, doing so would violate every single “stranger danger” lesson I ever learned in school.

Those who say that the McMichaels have their right of armed self defense apparently don’t realize that it can also be viewed that Arbery also had his right of self defense and I’m pretty sure felt as though his life was in danger the moment Travis McMichael stopped his truck in the road and got out to confront him with his shotgun. ...

[mystery-ak]

Autopsy shows Ahmaud Arbery was shot twice in the chest
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/497325-autopsy-shows-ahmaud-arbery-was-shot-twice-in-the-chest

[sneakypete]

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/07/ahmaud-arbery-killing-man-called-911...

Audio recordings of two 911 calls have shed further light on the final moments before Ahmaud Arbery was shot dead by two white men while jogging through a neighborhood just outside Brunswick, Georgia.
Ahmaud Arbery: anger mounts over killing of black jogger caught on video
Read more

The full recordings, obtained by the Guardian, come after new video footage showing Arbery’s killing in February was released this week, prompting widespread outrage and raising questions over why no arrests have been made. Transcripts of the 911 calls have been previously reported by local media.

Arbery had gone for a jog in Satilla Shores, near the Georgia coast, on the afternoon of Sunday 23 February. The 25-year-old was known around the neighborhood, and would sometimes wave to residents as he ran. But that day, a series of events unfolded that ended in his killing at the hands of Gregory McMichael, 64, and his 34-year-old son, Travis McMichael.
...

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

No left-wing bias in this propa.....,uhhhh,news report,is there?

Note from Mod5: @sneakypete, do not quote entire articles. Your thread has been merged into this prior thread.

[sneakypete]

nI copied and pasted the whole lead-in because even though all of us understand the bias of the media,we tend to skip over and ignore it BECAUSE it is so common.

We really need to start paying more attention to it and point out the glaring hypocrisies.

The 25-year-old was known around the neighborhood, and would sometimes wave to residents as he ran.

Oh,well! "SOMETIMES waved to residents!" That makes all the difference in the world. I wonder how many fingers he was waving,and how often he waved them?

And HOW was he "known around the neighborhood"? Was he known as a friendly resident,beloved by one and all,or a strange black guy with a snarl that liked to enter vacant houses to look around?

And "Yes,he IS on video entering a house under construction in that very same neighborhood on that very same day,looking around for items to steal. I say that because what OTHER reason would he have to enter a house that doesn't belong to him,and then do a search?

The house had hidden cameras,and caught him doing it.

The vacant house under construction had hidden cameras for a reason. Gee,I wonder what that reason was?

THERE is the probably cause for the two crackas to assume he was a criminal,and to stop and detail him until the Po-Po could show up to question him.

Instead of waiting for the cops to show up,he decides to attack and armed man and try to take his gun from him. Gee,I wonder why? Could it be because he might have an arrest record,or even be on probation?

Speaking of which,WHY is no one on his side claiming he was an honest citizen who was wrongly being held against his will,and who had never been arrested for anything?

WHY is there no mention of how he had never been arrested or even been a criminal suspect in the past?

WHY is there NO MENTION at all of a criminal record by him,either real or non-existent? If there is no record to hide,WHY isn't his lawyer screaming from the rooftops how clean his clients past is,and how this is proof of racism?

Enquiring minds,and all dat,

[PeteS in CA]

As I've posted elsewhere, the McMichaels were attempting an illegal citizens arrest. They had witnessed nothing. AKA false imprisonment. That gave Arbery the right to defend himself with proportional force, though he first tried avoidance.

In this case, the McMichaels were illegally threatening him with deadly force, which gave Arbery the right to defend himself with deadly force, though Arbery did not have that capability.

[Lando Lincoln]

As soon as people can this much for our white policeman, who are gunned down by people like AHMAN...then I might care.

OR THAT BIGOTED CASE OF LUTHER BY A BLACK JUDGE.  AOC....needs to put behind bars for inciting riots.

You've pressed against some strong personal biases before.  Mr. Arbery may well have been an entirely innocent man.  That is something you should care about.  Or, perhaps Arbery was not so innocent.  Then, we need to explore how he became dead.  That too is something you should care about.

In neither instance should skin color be a factor.  Your bias is showing.

[PeteS in CA]

As soon as people can this much for our white policeman, who are gunned down by people like AHMAN...then I might care.

OR THAT BIGOTED CASE OF LUTHER BY A BLACK JUDGE.  AOC....needs to put behind bars for inciting riots.

@LegalAmerican, why does the skin color of the "gunned down" policeman matter?

Why does the skin color of "AHMAN", whoever (s)he is matter if (s)he murdered a police officer, man or woman.

How is your comment not race-baiting?

Why do you keep throwing in irrelevancies to dodge the simple facts of this case?

[Jazzhead]

Good posts,  @PeteS in CA .  I agree 100% that what these two did was unlawful to begin with,  and that they properly face murder charges.

[truth_seeker]

(attorney for)Georgia home site owner denounces Arbery shooting

says nothing stolen/missing. vigilante pair had no knowledge of video@security system,only.


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[PeteS in CA]

Good posts,  @PeteS in CA .  I agree 100% that what these two did was unlawful to begin with,  and that they properly face murder charges.

Uh-oh ... am I going to catch flak for you agreeing with me? You need to keep being strange and be less of a stranger, Jazz. Maybe the Phils will start playing in a couple of months?

[truth_seeker]

The man in the garage appears to have white shoes, not natural leather color Timberline style?

[sneakypete]

As I've posted elsewhere, the McMichaels were attempting an illegal citizens arrest.

@PeteS in CA

Really? Do tell what was illegal about it?

They had witnessed nothing.

According to the first news report I heard or read,someone else saw him entering and leaving the house that was under construction,and called them to report it and described the guy. The media is dancing around now and saying the guy in the video "resembles" the deadhead,even though it is clearly him in the video.

 

AKA false imprisonment. [/quote,

Really? Where was he locked up? He wasn't even detained. He attacked the man TRYING to detail him until the police could show up,but then the guy attacked him and tried to take his gun away.

That gave Arbery the right to defend himself with proportional force, though he first tried avoidance.

According to who,the dead guy?

Or the dead guy's lawyer?

At any rate,that is NOT what the video showed.



 
 

[sneakypete]

You've pressed against some strong personal biases before.  Mr. Arbery may well have been an entirely innocent man.  That is something you should care about.  Or, perhaps Arbery was not so innocent.  Then, we need to explore how he became dead.  That too is something you should care about.
 

@Lando Lincoln

Granted,but rather than hear about "racist white trash former cops murder-in de brutha fo no reasons but hes bees black",I want to know WHY he was wandering around in that neighborhood house under construction,WHY he tried to snatch the guy away from the white guy that stopped him,and DOES HE HAVE A CRIMINAL RECORD?

The last part is really important because according to the press reports,he is so saintly he MIGHT have been the Black Jesus so many have been looking for.

Or a formal Saint,at a minimum.

WHY is the press mum about his background?

Not that I would suspect the Atlanta Journal, their reporter with the Arab name,or the NAACP of bias,mind you.

[PeteS in CA]

@sneakypete,

1. As was posted above, GA law only allows a citizen's arrest if the one making the arrest witnessed or has immediate knowledge of a crime. The McMichaels saw no crime and had no immediate knowledge of Arbery committing a crime. Therefore their attempted "citizens arrest" was illegal.

2. "According to the first news report I heard or read,someone else saw him entering and leaving the house that was under construction ...". What "someone else" saw is irrelevant, because the McMichaels did not see it or know of it.

3. Forcibly detaining someone from going about what they are doing is also "false imprisonment".

4. Attempting a false arrest was an assault. Trying to block Arbery with vehicles was assault with deadly force (the threat of hitting him). Trying to detain Arbery by pointing guns at him was assault with a deadly weapon. Almost everything the McMichaels did with Arbery was illegal except for following and talking to him before they tried to detain him.

[sneakypete]

@sneakypete,

1. As was posted above, GA law only allows a citizen's arrest if the one making the arrest witnessed or has immediate knowledge of a crime. The McMichaels saw no crime and had no immediate knowledge of Arbery committing a crime. Therefore their attempted "citizens arrest" was illegal.

2. "According to the first news report I heard or read,someone else saw him entering and leaving the house that was under construction ...". What "someone else" saw is irrelevant, because the McMichaels did not see it or know of it.

3. Forcibly detaining someone from going about what they are doing is also "false imprisonment".

4. Attempting a false arrest was an assault. Trying to block Arbery with vehicles was assault with deadly force (the threat of hitting him). Trying to detain Arbery by pointing guns at him was assault with a deadly weapon. Almost everything the McMichaels did with Arbery was illegal except for following and talking to him before they tried to detain him.

@PeteS in CA
 
Obviously the man and his son,both former LEO's,IIRC, had no interest in murdering him or they would have just killed him and been done with it.

Things didn't turn fatal until that retard attacked the man holding the gun on him,which resulted quite naturally in him being shot.

If I had been the one holding the gun on him,I would have shot him,too.

So would anyone else within shouting distance of "rational".

The black guy was the chief engineer of his own death.

[Axeslinger]

@PeteS in CA
 
Obviously the man and his son,both former LEO's,IIRC, had no interest in murdering him or they would have just killed him and been done with it.

Things didn't turn fatal until that retard attacked the man holding the gun on him,which resulted quite naturally in him being shot.

If I had been the one holding the gun on him,I would have shot him,too.

So would anyone else within shouting distance of "rational".

The black guy was the chief engineer of his own death.

@sneakypete  @PeteS in CA
Basically, you’re both right.

Victim, in the practical sense, caused his own death by going after the son with the shotgun.  Personally, although he caused the altercation to go kinetic, I don’t blame him.   You’ve got some dude rolling up on you with a shotgun...fight or flight kicks in and most folks don’t know which way they’d go until it’s happening in front of them.

However!!!! The perps are wholly LEGALLY culpable because their actions caused the situation.   There ain’t a defense attorney alive who’s going to keep those two out of jail.

Additional, I think only the father had a relationship w LE.   However I don’t think he was a street cop.   Seems like they said he was an investigator for the DA or something.

Finally, in my life, Ive walked through probably dozens of houses under construction...it’d suck to get killed because of it.

[PeteS in CA]

@PeteS in CA
 
Obviously the man and his son,both former LEO's,IIRC, had no interest in murdering him or they would have just killed him and been done with it. 1

Things didn't turn fatal until that retard attacked the man holding the gun on him,which resulted quite naturally in him being shot. 2

If I had been the one holding the gun on him,I would have shot him,too. 3

So would anyone else within shouting distance of "rational". 4

The black guy was the chief engineer of his own death. 5

1 What is the basis for this assumption?

2 The McMichaels were illegally assaulting and attempting false arrest. What do you say Arbery should have done, @sneakypete? Surrender to the armed men who had been continually assaulting and threatening him?

3 And you would be guilty of murder, because Arbery was defending himself, legally.

4 A rational person would not have attempted a false arrest, would not have assaulted Arbery with a vehicle, and would not have threatened him with a gun. In short, a rational person would not have set in motion the train of events that led to Arbery's desperate attempt to escape the McMichaels' continual assaults.

5 No, what led to Arbery's death was the McMichaels' continual illegal assaults and illegal attempt at false imprisonment. Had they simply called 9-1-1 and followed Arbery - let the police do their job, professionally - Arbery would be alive. The McMichaels decided to play cop.

[Axeslinger]

I just confirmed...he had been an investigator for the county DAs office for 24 years.   His work did NOT give him powers of arrest, his work was all after an arrest was made.

[sneakypete]

@sneakypete  @PeteS in CA
Basically, you’re both right.

 

However!!!! The perps are wholly LEGALLY culpable because their actions caused the situation.   

Nope! IF they had been planning on murdering him,he would have been dead before he ever had a chance to reach for the gun. The fact that he did tells me he didn't want to still be there when the cops showed up.

There ain’t a defense attorney alive who’s going to keep those two out of jail.

I hope you are wrong.

Additional, I think only the father had a relationship w LE.   However I don’t think he was a street cop.   Seems like they said he was an investigator for the DA or something.

Irrelevant. In either case it could be assumed he knew enough about the law to assume he was in bounds.

Finally, in my life, Ive walked through probably dozens of houses under construction...it’d suck to get killed because of it.

I've probably walked through hundreds,but then again,I used to be a carpenter and walking through them was a part of my daily worklife.

Think the dead guy was a builder looking for building tips?

[Axeslinger]

Nope! IF they had been planning on murdering him,he would have been dead before he ever had a chance to reach for the gun. The fact that he did tells me he didn't want to still be there when the cops showed up.

I hope you are wrong.



Irrelevant. In either case it could be assumed he knew enough about the law to assume he was in bounds.


I've probably walked through hundreds,but then again,I used to be a carpenter and walking through them was a part of my daily worklife.

Think the dead guy was a builder looking for building tips?

@sneakypete
I provided the info about dads career only because you said “IIRC” in an earlier post.  Just giving an answer.

Re the if they wanted him dead:    No, that would’ve made them guilty if premeditated murder.  I don’t believe a smart prosecutor will go for that.    But, barring something unknown at this time, they will almost certainly be found guilty of at least manslaughter and probably murder, just not capital murder.  They didn’t go there with the intention of shooting anyone, they brought the gun because they thought they were confronting a criminal. Won’t matter. Legally they were wholly wrong.

By any chance Pete, do you have or have you ever had a concealed carry permit?  Because what these two guys did violates pretty much EVERYTHING you are taught when obtaining a Carry permit.

Massad Ayoob has written a number of fabulous books on the legalities of armed confrontations by civilians.  I’ll see if I can find a title if you’re interested.   Trust me when I say, unless other information comes out, these two guys are completely screwed.