The Death of the Department Store: ‘Very Few Are Likely to Survive’

[mystery-ak]

The Death of the Department Store: ‘Very Few Are Likely to Survive’

Shuttered flagships. Empty malls. Canceled orders. Risks of bankruptcy. The coronavirus has hit the behemoths of the retail world.



By Sapna Maheshwari and Vanessa Friedman

    April 21, 2020

American department stores, once all-powerful shopping meccas that anchored malls and Main Streets across the country, have been dealt blow after blow in the past decade. J.C. Penney and Sears were upended by hedge funds. Macy’s has been closing stores and cutting corporate staff. Barneys New York filed for bankruptcy last year.

But nothing compares to the shock the weakened industry has taken from the coronavirus pandemic. The sales of clothing and accessories fell by more than half in March, a trend that is expected to only get worse in April. The entire executive team at Lord & Taylor was let go this month. Nordstrom has canceled orders and put off paying its vendors. The Neiman Marcus Group, the most glittering of the American department store chains, is expected to declare bankruptcy in the coming days, the first major retailer felled during the current crisis.

It is not likely to be the last.

more
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/21/business/coronavirus-department-stores-neiman-marcus.html

[Fishrrman]

The end of an era.
Killed off by a microscopic virus... (sigh)

[libertybele]

The end of an era.
Killed off by a microscopic virus... (sigh)

The end of this era was coming ... IMHO due to the domination of the market by Amazon.  There aren't many items that you can't buy on Amazon and have delivered to your door, except for toilet paper and paper towels right now.  Macy's sells clothing and household goods -- all items that you can buy on Amazon; they even now have a try on first policy.  You can buy clothing, household goods, select foods, appliances, tools, batteries,furniture, boats, you name it.  Amazon has it and will deliver.  If you have prime membership, most delivery is free.

Amazon has destroyed the retail industry as we knew it.  They are trying to eek into the food industry as well.  You can bet with the meat markets have difficulty they are looking into seizing that opportunity.

I'm glad Amazon is around right now as so many people are dependent on their service during these times, but in the same light I hate Amazon for putting small businesses and retail shops out of business -- they just can't compete.

[Gemmarose]

IMHO discount retail does really well in these times.
That and I hate Amazon for many reasons and have had my credit card compromised a few times by them.

[sneakypete]

The end of an era.
Killed off by a microscopic virus... (sigh)

@Fishrrman

Not really. Killed off by Amazon and similar web sites is closer to the truth.

AND.....,it has to be said that mismanagement played a part,too.

[libertybele]

IMHO discount retail does really well in these times.
That and I hate Amazon for many reasons and have had my credit card compromised a few times by them.

...hmmm.... interesting about your credit card.  I ordered from them around the same time I ordered from Instacart and my card was compromised the next day.  I've been using Amazon for quite awhile and only attempted to use Instacart once, but still it does raise questions.  Are you sure it was Amazon?? 

[libertybele]

@Fishrrman

Not really. Killed off by Amazon and similar web sites is closer to the truth.

AND.....,it has to be said that mismanagement played a part,too.

Yes, take Sears and Kmart for example.  How many times did Sears "reorganize"?  We had a Sears appliance store that opened up near us about 5 years ago and then 2 or 3 years later they closed up.  Never made any sense to me.  Kmart just plain died.  They were a big retailer at one time. TC Penney is on their way out as well. They've been having problems for a long long time.

[Cyber Liberty]

This has been baked in the cake for years.  Can't blame this one on the 'Rona.

[Gemmarose]

...hmmm.... interesting about your credit card.  I ordered from them around the same time I ordered from Instacart and my card was compromised the next day.  I've been using Amazon for quite awhile and only attempted to use Instacart once, but still it does raise questions.  Are you sure it was Amazon??

100% sure.

[Cyber Liberty]

100% sure.

I've spent thousands through Amazon, never a glitch.  They've bent over backwards making sure I was happy.  The only trouble like that I've ever had was with Apple iTunes.  Less than I day after I gave them my Credit Card I had charges from Peru for "labor."  AmEx took care of it and sent me new cards.

[Applewood]

This old lady remembers when Pittsburgh had 3 major department stores, all in downtown before the malls sprang up.  In one of the biggest malls, Century II, there were branches of those department stores, plus Sears, Penneys and Montgomery Wards.  Well, one by one, the department stores died.  The 3 stores downtown all closed and before long the mall locations went belly up.  Century III is no more and other malls are in bad shape. 

Plenty of reasons and not just Amazon.  For one thing, not too many people want to get dressed, get into their cars, drive over to the malls, then sometimes spend an hour trying to find a parking space (mostly around the holidays).  But even worse is the crime rampant in malls.  Gang bangers are now doing business in them.  Every once in a while a shooting occurs.  People have also been robbed and I've heard of a few sexual assaults as well.  Mall owners collect a hefty rent from the tenants, but they are too cheap to provide any better security other than some unarmed security guards.  So decent people are staying away in droves and shopping online.

And a number of these stores have done themselves in through their stupid business decisions.  Remember Penneys catering to the perverts and doing away with sales?  Yeah, that worked out well, didn't it?  Or Sears doing away with its catalog, but replacing it with a god-awful website, not to mention selling inferior merchandise.   

The virus isn't killing them; they've been dying long before COVID 19.  The virus is maybe just the last nail in the coffin. 

[GtHawk]

This old lady remembers when Pittsburgh had 3 major department stores, all in downtown before the malls sprang up.  In one of the biggest malls, Century II, there were branches of those department stores, plus Sears, Penneys and Montgomery Wards.  Well, one by one, the department stores died.  The 3 stores downtown all closed and before long the mall locations went belly up.  Century III is no more and other malls are in bad shape. 

Plenty of reasons and not just Amazon.  For one thing, not too many people want to get dressed, get into their cars, drive over to the malls, then sometimes spend an hour trying to find a parking space (mostly around the holidays).  But even worse is the crime rampant in malls.  Gang bangers are now doing business in them.  Every once in a while a shooting occurs.  People have also been robbed and I've heard of a few sexual assaults as well.  Mall owners collect a hefty rent from the tenants, but they are too cheap to provide any better security other than some unarmed security guards.  So decent people are staying away in droves and shopping online.

And a number of these stores have done themselves in through their stupid business decisions.  Remember Penneys catering to the perverts and doing away with sales?  Yeah, that worked out well, didn't it?  Or Sears doing away with its catalog, but replacing it with a god-awful website, not to mention selling inferior merchandise.   

The virus isn't killing them; they've been dying long before COVID 19.  The virus is maybe just the last nail in the coffin.

Man, I can remember Montgomery Wards, Sears is joining them and Penneys close behind, but also in my area was White Front, Gemco, Fedco, The Treasury, Best, Mervyns and those had nothing on some of the retailers back east.  It will be shame if they all go because the option of going to handle a product or try on clothes before buying is really nice.

[Neverdul]

This old lady remembers when Pittsburgh had 3 major department stores, all in downtown before the malls sprang up.  In one of the biggest malls, Century II, there were branches of those department stores, plus Sears, Penneys and Montgomery Wards.  Well, one by one, the department stores died.  The 3 stores downtown all closed and before long the mall locations went belly up.  Century III is no more and other malls are in bad shape. 

Plenty of reasons and not just Amazon.  For one thing, not too many people want to get dressed, get into their cars, drive over to the malls, then sometimes spend an hour trying to find a parking space (mostly around the holidays).  But even worse is the crime rampant in malls.  Gang bangers are now doing business in them.  Every once in a while a shooting occurs.  People have also been robbed and I've heard of a few sexual assaults as well.  Mall owners collect a hefty rent from the tenants, but they are too cheap to provide any better security other than some unarmed security guards.  So decent people are staying away in droves and shopping online.

And a number of these stores have done themselves in through their stupid business decisions.  Remember Penneys catering to the perverts and doing away with sales?  Yeah, that worked out well, didn't it?  Or Sears doing away with its catalog, but replacing it with a god-awful website, not to mention selling inferior merchandise.   

The virus isn't killing them; they've been dying long before COVID 19.  The virus is maybe just the last nail in the coffin.

@ Applewood
I remember back in the mid to late 70’s there were still several department stores along Howard Street in downtown Baltimore – Hutzler's, Hochschild Kohn, Hecht's and Stewart's. I went to a HS across town and had to take two MTA busses to get back and forth, usually transferring on Howard Street, so especially on half days, my girlfriends and would go shopping (more often window shopping) at those stores, although Hecht’s had a great bargain basement and I sometimes might get a bargain.  But Howard Street even in the 70’s, had lost its luster and wasn’t exactly “safe”.

So even then those downtown stores were struggling then. Those same department stores were however doing well out in the suburban malls for a time but one, by one, those too closed. It broke my heart when Hecht’s closed, Woodward & Lothrop (Woodies) too. When Macy’s moved into the Baltimore area, taking over many of the former Hecht’s stores, my mom and I used to shop there regularly but here in central PA, after the Macy’s in York closed after a Walmart was built next door, the closest Macy’s is in Towson, MD or Harrisburg PA, both at least an hour away.  I was never a fan of either Sears or Penny’s but mostly because of bad selection and bad service.  Even in my teens in the 70’s, Sears and Penny’s were the stores where your grandmother shopped for clothes for herself or for clothes that she’d buy you for Christmas but so not “on style”, that you’d never wear them.

Man, I can remember Montgomery Wards, Sears is joining them and Penneys close behind, but also in my area was White Front, Gemco, Fedco, The Treasury, Best, Mervyns and those had nothing on some of the retailers back east.  It will be shame if they all go because the option of going to handle a product or try on clothes before buying is really nice.

@GtHawk
I also remember Two Guys and Korvette's.

[Gefn]

IMHO discount retail does really well in these times.
That and I hate Amazon for many reasons and have had my credit card compromised a few times by them.

When this is over, I’m getting my hair done and then I need a new pair of jeans, and a few tops. I don’t know my size, so I really want to go into a store and buy. Sometimes I’m a small, or a medium. I just don’t know until I try it on. 

Personally, I like smaller stores, but I pretty much get clothes from them.

[Applewood]

Man, I can remember Montgomery Wards, Sears is joining them and Penneys close behind, but also in my area was White Front, Gemco, Fedco, The Treasury, Best, Mervyns and those had nothing on some of the retailers back east.  It will be shame if they all go because the option of going to handle a product or try on clothes before buying is really nice.

Clothes are not so much of a problem for me to buy online.  There are a few brands I've been buying for years, I know which size in each brand fits and the sizes and styles don't change from year to year.  Besides, since I retired, I don't go anywhere formal, so if an article of clothing is too big or the pants are too long, who cares?  I don't.

Now what I would miss is making a major purchase in a store such as a washer/dryer.  I want to inspect them up close and personal before I buy. 

And on a sort of related note -- thinking about people who drive -- would you be comfortable purchasing your next vehicle online sight unseen?    I don't know since I don't drive, but if I did, I would think I'd want to take the vehicle for a spin or at least sit in it for a few minutes before I made such an expensive purchase  I know online sales are the latest thing in car buying and it's being done a lot during this outbreak, but I don't know if I would want the brick and mortar car dealerships to disappear permanently.

[sneakypete]

Let's all face an ugly non-PC truth. What killed department stores were blacks and the crime they brought with them. When it is no longer safe to shop somewhere because of drug deals being made,purses being snatched,cars being stolen or damaged for no reason,and elderly men and women of all ages being physically attacked for no rational reason,people are going to stop shopping there.

Yes,it is true that online shopping was the final nail in that coffin,but they were already dying due to crime before online shopping even because a "thing".

A few of the bigger malls are still alive and well,but every single one I personally know of are too far out of the city centers where the "Project Peepuls" live to walk or bicycle,and there are no bus lines running to them.
Eventually the cities will run bus routes to them because the "Project Peepuls" will whine to their Rev-Runs on the city council about how unfair it is their victims are being taken away from them,and then those malls will also close.

[Cyber Liberty]

Let's all face an ugly non-PC truth. What killed department stores were blacks and the crime they brought with them. When it is no longer safe to shop somewhere because of drug deals being made,purses being snatched,cars being stolen or damaged for no reason,and elderly men and women of all ages being physically attacked for no rational reason,people are going to stop shopping there.

Yes,it is true that online shopping was the final nail in that coffin,but they were already dying due to crime before online shopping even because a "thing".

A few of the bigger malls are still alive and well,but every single one I personally know of are too far out of the city centers where the "Project Peepuls" live to walk or bicycle,and there are no bus lines running to them.
Eventually the cities will run bus routes to them because the "Project Peepuls" will whine to their Rev-Runs on the city council about how unfair it is their victims are being taken away from them,and then those malls will also close.

I've heard it said, that when a light-rail station is added to a mall, it's dead within a couple of years because of the increased crime on customers.  And yes, a rep develops so people won't come anymore.  But that's not what happened in suburban Phoenix.  Malls died because people didn't want to buy the stuff inside at inflated prices.  Mall rent is expensive.

[sneakypete]

  Malls died because people didn't want to buy the stuff inside at inflated prices.  Mall rent is expensive.

@Cyber Liberty

True,but what you are overlooking is that going to a mall to shop,eat lunch,and visit with friends was a social even for some people. Maybe even the only social event in the lives of many "stay at home mothers",retired people,etc,etc,etc. The Malls were convenient to them,got them out of the house for a few hours even if they didn't buy anything but lunch,and made many of them feel like they had a life away from home.

LOTS of middle-class teens went to malls to "fake shop" and socialize with friends and flirt with members of the opposite sex,too.

You don't get that from online shopping.

[Cyber Liberty]

@Cyber Liberty

True,but what you are overlooking is that going to a mall to shop,eat lunch,and visit with friends was a social even for some people. Maybe even the only social event in the lives of many "stay at home mothers",retired people,etc,etc,etc. The Malls were convenient to them,got them out of the house for a few hours even if they didn't buy anything but lunch,and made many of them feel like they had a life away from home.

LOTS of middle-class teens went to malls to "fake shop" and socialize with friends and flirt with members of the opposite sex,too.

You don't get that from online shopping.

I think the crime probably tipped the scale.   Who wants to shop in a place that has a reputation of being a great place to get mugged?  The Mall of America in Minneapolis is a perfect example, the BLM riots inside the mall made the place a no-go zone for people not of the preferred demographic.

[sneakypete]

I think the crime probably tipped the scale.   Who wants to shop in a place that has a reputation of being a great place to get mugged?  The Mall of America in Minneapolis is a perfect example, the BLM riots inside the mall made the place a no-go zone for people not of the preferred demographic.

@Cyber Liberty

I agree. I used to love to waste a little time "window shopping" at malls for both things I wanted,and things you couldn't give me.

I stopped when the mugging,car thefts,and multiple teens attacking white people things became too common.

Not really scared,I just try to avoid situations where I might have to kill someone or several someones,if at all possible. If a mall was the only local place I could find something I needed,I would go there,and the thugs would have to take their chances just like everyone else;

[catfish1957]

@Fishrrman

Not really. Killed off by Amazon and similar web sites is closer to the truth.

AND.....,it has to be said that mismanagement played a part,too.

When I saw that Sears bit the dust, I knew the whole sector was doomed.  When decent tools and appliances aren't even a decent survival floatation device....   Well...............

[GtHawk]

Clothes are not so much of a problem for me to buy online.  There are a few brands I've been buying for years, I know which size in each brand fits and the sizes and styles don't change from year to year.  Besides, since I retired, I don't go anywhere formal, so if an article of clothing is too big or the pants are too long, who cares?  I don't.

Now what I would miss is making a major purchase in a store such as a washer/dryer.  I want to inspect them up close and personal before I buy. 

And on a sort of related note -- thinking about people who drive -- would you be comfortable purchasing your next vehicle online sight unseen?    I don't know since I don't drive, but if I did, I would think I'd want to take the vehicle for a spin or at least sit in it for a few minutes before I made such an expensive purchase  I know online sales are the latest thing in car buying and it's being done a lot during this outbreak, but I don't know if I would want the brick and mortar car dealerships to disappear permanently.

Don't know about the rest of the country but out where I am there is a company called Carvana where you can buy your car on line then when you go to pick it up, unless delivered, it is dispensed out of a giant vending machine.

[Applewood]

Let's all face an ugly non-PC truth. What killed department stores were blacks and the crime they brought with them. When it is no longer safe to shop somewhere because of drug deals being made,purses being snatched,cars being stolen or damaged for no reason,and elderly men and women of all ages being physically attacked for no rational reason,people are going to stop shopping there. 

Yes,it is true that online shopping was the final nail in that coffin,but they were already dying due to crime before online shopping even because a "thing".

A few of the bigger malls are still alive and well,but every single one I personally know of are too far out of the city centers where the "Project Peepuls" live to walk or bicycle,and there are no bus lines running to them.
Eventually the cities will run bus routes to them because the "Project Peepuls" will whine to their Rev-Runs on the city council about how unfair it is their victims are being taken away from them,and then those malls will also close.

I guess it depends on where you live.  Here, I can't say it's just black people.  I have plenty of lowlife whites, plus some illegals and so-called refugees from the Middle East.  All of them have ruined not only this town, but also the malls and the retail outlets nearby.

As for public transportation -- we have many low to lower middle class people here.  Many of them can't afford cars.  Plus there are still a number of seniors like me.  I never learned to drive (long story about that) and many older people who once drove have, for medical reasons, given up their cars.  So the people here rely on public transportation to get around.  Having public transportation for us is a godsend. 

Eliminating bus service to the mall doesn't work here either.  There is a mall in the region -- I think it's the newest one -- it had regular transit when it first opened, but when it saw other malls decline, the management had the service discontinued.  Well, not only did the mall get rid of the criminal element, it also lost the decent people who relied on public transit.  Now I hear that mall is in financial trouble. 

I still say the mall owners should have invested in armed security.  The stores themselves should have insisted upon it.  I know tenants pay a hefty rent for their space.  They deserve the protection. If some gangsta causes trouble, shoot to kill.  Let the ACLU and the anti-gun  crowd whine.  People should have a safe place to shop. 

[Applewood]

Don't know about the rest of the country but out where I am there is a company called Carvana where you can buy your car on line then when you go to pick it up, unless delivered, it is dispensed out of a giant vending machine.

I believe I saw that on tv.  Cool!    But still -- just doesn't seem to be a good way to buy a car.  Of course, as I said, I don't drive, so what do I know?

[Cyber Liberty]

Don't know about the rest of the country but out where I am there is a company called Carvana where you can buy your car on line then when you go to pick it up, unless delivered, it is dispensed out of a giant vending machine.

Carvana has one of these "vending machines" in Tempe, we used to drive by it all the time when we were taking trips back to our old house in Chandler.  I always thought that was dumb, because you can have the car delivered to your driveway if you wanted.