‘Let us work’ protests spread all across the US this weekend; demonstrators labeled as ‘far-right’

[mystery-ak]

‘Let us work’ protests spread all across the US this weekend; demonstrators labeled as ‘far-right’
April 19, 2020 | Vivek Saxena

As protests against coronavirus-based lockdowns continue spreading across the country (and globe), authorities are growing increasingly despotic and arguably fascist in their enforcement of “stay-at-home” orders, with police in one community arresting a woman for simply planning a protest.

That woman, Kim Pagan of New Jersey, reportedly faces charges for “organizing a prohibited event” that involved protesters gathering in order “to demonstrate against” Gov. Phil Murphy‘s potentially unconstitutional coronavirus restrictions.

“Pagan has to answer to the charge in Muncipal Court. Violations of emergency orders constitute a disorderly persons offense carrying a potential sentence of up to six months in jail and a $1,000 fine,” Fox News reported.

more
https://www.bizpacreview.com/2020/04/19/let-us-work-protests-spread-all-across-the-us-this-weekend-demonstrators-labeled-as-far-right-910354

[truth_seeker]

An example of "if it bleeeds, it leads" and if it doesn't bleed, cut it and slash it in order to find conflict, even violence.

There were peaceful demonstrations in the OC, non-partisan, yet the media looks for trouble.

#reopenoc

in two days, over 2200 members.

[jmyrlefuller]

The funniest part is this:

For the screaming Mimis demanding everyone stay inside forever (really, how well has that worked for nursing homes and prisons?), it's a catch-22:

- If you don't practice social distancing, you're a hazard to society and making the crisis worse.
- If you do, you're proving yourself wrong.

The idea that people can still recognize the threat this virus poses but still think the measures being taken regarding shutting down businesses and bans on arbitrary things are draconian and/or ineffective seems to be lost on these people. (Word salad, I know, but I'm hoping you get my point.)

[Chosen Daughter]

The funniest part is this:

For the screaming Mimis demanding everyone stay inside forever (really, how well has that worked for nursing homes and prisons?), it's a catch-22:

- If you don't practice social distancing, you're a hazard to society and making the crisis worse.
- If you do, you're proving yourself wrong.

The idea that people can still recognize the threat this virus poses but still think the measures being taken regarding shutting down businesses and bans on arbitrary things are draconian and/or ineffective seems to be lost on these people. (Word salad, I know, but I'm hoping you get my point.)

I have always believed that small businesses could have continued to work.  Small business with not many workers.  I don't agree with it all, and we shouldn't have had to spend 2 trillion had we been smart and did what made sense.  Running people out of business doesn't.  But stay home and only go out to work, get fresh air, get groceries with social distancing and masks.  That makes sense.

And of course very old people or people with underlying conditions should stay home.  It sure would have reduced the debt.

But after all the effort now we are going to protest and go backwards.  When we could have had leadership to institute common sense all along.  I certainly hope that Civil disobedience doesn't lead to increased cases of COVID leading to prolonged stay home order.  Or get off it and then have to do it all over again.  Because the people protesting here in Washington were not practicing social distancing or wearing masks for the most part.

[Chosen Daughter]

Trump says we would have had millions of deaths if we hadn't shut down. 

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump

Mixed messages 

[txradioguy]

Trump says we would have had millions of deaths if we hadn't shut down. 

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump

Mixed messages 

 

[Right_in_Virginia]

Whew,  I thought it was just me.   

[Smokin Joe]

Whew,  I thought it was just me.   

He's in a tough spot, looking for the "Goldilocks Zone". (Not too soon, not too late, but just right)

People need to understand, too, that jumping the gun will mean we get to do all this all over again.

[massadvj]

The funniest part is this:

For the screaming Mimis demanding everyone stay inside forever (really, how well has that worked for nursing homes and prisons?), it's a catch-22:

- If you don't practice social distancing, you're a hazard to society and making the crisis worse.
- If you do, you're proving yourself wrong.

The idea that people can still recognize the threat this virus poses but still think the measures being taken regarding shutting down businesses and bans on arbitrary things are draconian and/or ineffective seems to be lost on these people. (Word salad, I know, but I'm hoping you get my point.)

Apparently this virus is smarter than we are.  We think we can hide from it, but the virus knows better.

"Catch 22" is a good phrase for this.  The more we quarantine, the longer we are going to need to quarantine, because the virus is always going to be out there waiting for us to leave our houses.  This virus is so contagious, that so long as it exists anywhere on the planet, it can cause another pandemic UNTIL THE POPULATION BECOMES IMMUNE.

We aren't going to become immune until we go out and get the virus in large numbers.  I predict that we are going to start hearing the term "herd immunity" quite a bit as government at all levels succumbs to the reality of what the sequestration policy has wrought.

There is going to be a recognition that we are just going to have to bite the bullet and let the virus win over the short term so that humanity can win over the long term.  It is an awful trade off, but we have no choice but to make it.

[catfish1957]

During a newscast yesterday, I heard one dipshit call the reprehensible OKC bombing a Right Wing terrorist attack in  commemoration.

Trying to remember ever when the MSM called anything a left wing terrorist attack.

[Gefn]

Apparently this virus is smarter than we are.  We think we can hide from it, but the virus knows better.

"Catch 22" is a good phrase for this.  The more we quarantine, the longer we are going to need to quarantine, because the virus is always going to be out there waiting for us to leave our houses.  This virus is so contagious, that so long as it exists anywhere on the planet, it can cause another pandemic UNTIL THE POPULATION BECOMES IMMUNE.

We aren't going to become immune until we go out and get the virus in large numbers.  I predict that we are going to start hearing the term "herd immunity" quite a bit as government at all levels succumbs to the reality of what the sequestration policy has wrought.

There is going to be a recognition that we are just going to have to bite the bullet and let the virus win over the short term so that humanity can win over the long term.  It is an awful trade off, but we have no choice but to make it.

 

[Smokin Joe]

During a newscast yesterday, I heard one dipshit call the reprehensible OKC bombing a Right Wing terrorist attack in  commemoration.

Trying to remember ever when the MSM called anything a left wing terrorist attack.

That was the meme the Media pushed, saying it was retribution for Waco..and all those nasty, right winged gun owner types needed to have their "assault weapons" taken away (even though no firearms were discharged in the bombing of the Murrah Building and the loaded pistol the later convicted bomber had when stopped in a traffic stop for no license plates was never discharged). The whole "right winged" terrorist image has been pimped from time to time when it wasn't obvious the terrorists or other perpetrators were Muslim.
No mention of the Weathermen, though, when Bill Ayers or Bernadette Dohrn were diddy-bopping around the Obamas, because they were Left-wing terrorists.

[Smokin Joe]

Apparently this virus is smarter than we are.  We think we can hide from it, but the virus knows better.

"Catch 22" is a good phrase for this.  The more we quarantine, the longer we are going to need to quarantine, because the virus is always going to be out there waiting for us to leave our houses.  This virus is so contagious, that so long as it exists anywhere on the planet, it can cause another pandemic UNTIL THE POPULATION BECOMES IMMUNE.

We aren't going to become immune until we go out and get the virus in large numbers.  I predict that we are going to start hearing the term "herd immunity" quite a bit as government at all levels succumbs to the reality of what the sequestration policy has wrought.

There is going to be a recognition that we are just going to have to bite the bullet and let the virus win over the short term so that humanity can win over the long term.  It is an awful trade off, but we have no choice but to make it.

Yep. "Herd immunity" will win out in the end, as it has with every novel pathogen. @roamer_1 said so here, numerous times.

[Free Vulcan]

Apparently this virus is smarter than we are.  We think we can hide from it, but the virus knows better.

"Catch 22" is a good phrase for this.  The more we quarantine, the longer we are going to need to quarantine, because the virus is always going to be out there waiting for us to leave our houses.  This virus is so contagious, that so long as it exists anywhere on the planet, it can cause another pandemic UNTIL THE POPULATION BECOMES IMMUNE.

We aren't going to become immune until we go out and get the virus in large numbers.  I predict that we are going to start hearing the term "herd immunity" quite a bit as government at all levels succumbs to the reality of what the sequestration policy has wrought.

There is going to be a recognition that we are just going to have to bite the bullet and let the virus win over the short term so that humanity can win over the long term.  It is an awful trade off, but we have no choice but to make it.

That's pretty much how I see it.

It's far better to eat better, build your immunity, and take antivirals. But if Americans got one achilles heel, it's a near absolute defiance against taking responsibility and taking care of one's health.

I also really love the media meme that somehow being working class and wanting to get paychecks again is 'far-right'. Sounds like Old Sniffy and the rest of the Dems rhetoric to get rid of any jobs that aren't green, and the rest of us on welfare I guess.

Talk about minting millions of new Republicans for the coming election.

[truth_seeker]

He's in a tough spot, looking for the "Goldilocks Zone". (Not too soon, not too late, but just right)

People need to understand, too, that jumping the gun will mean we get to do all this all over again.

I read a very good local non-partisan article to that effect.

It stated we have avoided the worst, by complying well with "mitigating" measures, and as you state it could be undone, by discarding said measures.

My local police attemded a demonstration, and wrote advice to comply, in order to get this over with the best outcome for all.

I hardly accept the "over-reaction" version, with over 180 countries getting the virus.

The 1918 Sanish Flue epidemic lasted 3 years, not 3 months.

[jmyrlefuller]

Apparently this virus is smarter than we are.  We think we can hide from it, but the virus knows better.

"Catch 22" is a good phrase for this.  The more we quarantine, the longer we are going to need to quarantine, because the virus is always going to be out there waiting for us to leave our houses.  This virus is so contagious, that so long as it exists anywhere on the planet, it can cause another pandemic UNTIL THE POPULATION BECOMES IMMUNE.

We aren't going to become immune until we go out and get the virus in large numbers.  I predict that we are going to start hearing the term "herd immunity" quite a bit as government at all levels succumbs to the reality of what the sequestration policy has wrought.

There is going to be a recognition that we are just going to have to bite the bullet and let the virus win over the short term so that humanity can win over the long term.  It is an awful trade off, but we have no choice but to make it.

I am nowhere near this level of pessimism.

Viruses do not live forever. Without a host, they die in short order. Think of the numerous viruses that are practically dead now. Smallpox, polio, and so on. Most people these days carry no vaccinations against them nor any immunity—but they haven't roared back because they no longer exist in the wild. SARS was eradicated after two waves, the second much smaller than the first.

Looking at the stats, the curve right now is largely being crushed. For how long, we don't know, because people are already starting to protest (see: Harrisburg), and that's a natural progression.

But to look at it from the other side, you can look at South Korea, and note the hundreds who have NOT developed immunity from this after getting it twice, and conclude that herd immunity might not even be possible with this virus.

[mortarman]

These same ones who are insisting that we remain imprisoned without due cause in violation of our 6th Amendment Rights are the same ones who were inticing an' encouraging millions of invasive species (many who are a direct threat to American citizens) to violate our laws all for their oen political gain.

 

[massadvj]

But to look at it from the other side, you can look at South Korea, and note the hundreds who have NOT developed immunity from this after getting it twice, and conclude that herd immunity might not even be possible with this virus.

I have thought about this too. The evidence that people can get it twice is very weak.  Yes, they test positive, but the symptoms the second time are negligible, and it is a very, very small number in comparison to the numbers of people who have probably been exposed while carrying the antibody, and nothing happened.

[Fishrrman]

Here in Connecticut, we just had our highest one-day increase in infections and deaths yet:
1,853 new infections (19,815 total)
204 new deaths (1,331 total).

There doesn't seem to be "a peak" here, not yet.
"Open up for business", and those numbers will shoot up even higher, I reckon...

Victor wrote above in post 8:
"There is going to be a recognition that we are just going to have to bite the bullet and let the virus win over the short term so that humanity can win over the long term.  It is an awful trade off, but we have no choice but to make it."

I don't contest what you wrote. It's reasoned and logical.
But if we do this, Mr. Trump (and the rest of the Republicans along with him) face a high possibility of losing the election in November.
Folks here had better face up to that.

[truth_seeker]

I have thought about this too. The evidence that people can get it twice is very weak.  Yes, they test positive, but the symptoms the second time are negligible, and it is a very, very small number in comparison to the numbers of people who have probably been exposed while carrying the antibody, and nothing happened.

Important antibody tsting in Los Angeles County CA and Santa Clara County CA.

Siimilar findings. Should help with further analysis, and LA says they intend to conduct followups, which will yield much more knowledge.

including the degree of immunity.

Taken together, these studies aare among the most extensive, in America.

Discouraging about the amount of spread, encouraging about the percent fatality.

[Smokin Joe]

Here in Connecticut, we just had our highest one-day increase in infections and deaths yet:
1,853 new infections (19,815 total)
204 new deaths (1,331 total).

There doesn't seem to be "a peak" here, not yet.
"Open up for business", and those numbers will shoot up even higher, I reckon...

Victor wrote above in post 8:
"There is going to be a recognition that we are just going to have to bite the bullet and let the virus win over the short term so that humanity can win over the long term.  It is an awful trade off, but we have no choice but to make it."

I don't contest what you wrote. It's reasoned and logical.
But if we do this, Mr. Trump (and the rest of the Republicans along with him) face a high possibility of losing the election in November.
Folks here had better face up to that.

With the assumption that NO MATTER WHAT happens, the ABCNNBCBS media will inevitably blame Trump for the worst and give credit to 'heroic' Democrats for any good, no election will be a lock. Managing the number of cases so hospital facilities are not overwhelmed will be key, and that means addressing hot spots as they arise, the whole time we gather data about less severe cases, asymptomatic cases, and develop  serious testing capabilities for antibodies.

Waiting on a vaccine, which may or may not provide the hoped for level of protection is not going to be a viable way to retain any economy. Oil won't pull the economy out this time, like it did in the 2000s and 2010s.

[Cyber Liberty]

Apparently this virus is smarter than we are.  We think we can hide from it, but the virus knows better.

"Catch 22" is a good phrase for this.  The more we quarantine, the longer we are going to need to quarantine, because the virus is always going to be out there waiting for us to leave our houses.  This virus is so contagious, that so long as it exists anywhere on the planet, it can cause another pandemic UNTIL THE POPULATION BECOMES IMMUNE.

We aren't going to become immune until we go out and get the virus in large numbers.  I predict that we are going to start hearing the term "herd immunity" quite a bit as government at all levels succumbs to the reality of what the sequestration policy has wrought.

There is going to be a recognition that we are just going to have to bite the bullet and let the virus win over the short term so that humanity can win over the long term.  It is an awful trade off, but we have no choice but to make it.

The Edgar Allen Poe story The Masque of the Red Death is instructive.  That was a smart fellow, even if he did marry his cousin.

[libertybele]

I am nowhere near this level of pessimism.

Viruses do not live forever. Without a host, they die in short order. Think of the numerous viruses that are practically dead now. Smallpox, polio, and so on. Most people these days carry no vaccinations against them nor any immunity—but they haven't roared back because they no longer exist in the wild. SARS was eradicated after two waves, the second much smaller than the first.

Looking at the stats, the curve right now is largely being crushed. For how long, we don't know, because people are already starting to protest (see: Harrisburg), and that's a natural progression.

But to look at it from the other side, you can look at South Korea, and note the hundreds who have NOT developed immunity from this after getting it twice, and conclude that herd immunity might not even be possible with this virus.

I like your glimmer of optimism; that viruses don't live forever, but keep in mind that the flu is a virus and it reappears every season and has done so for decades.

Consider:

Fact check: Herd immunity would not fully stop the spread of coronavirus

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/18/fact-check-herd-immunity-would-not-fully-stop-spread-coronavirus/5156368002/

[massadvj]

Consider:

Fact check: Herd immunity would not fully stop the spread of coronavirus

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/18/fact-check-herd-immunity-would-not-fully-stop-spread-coronavirus/5156368002/

Pretty good article.  I agree that herd immunity will not eliminate the virus, but given the highly contagious nature of it, it would come under control a lot sooner if we did not quarantine ourselves.  The only justification for the quarantine is to prevent hospital overcrowding.  That threat only exists in a few places, and now that new treatment protocols have been developed, it appears that hospitalization periods will be dramatically reduced.

Another issue is the governors and their edicts about "essential" and "nonessential" businesses.  There is no reason to close a business that can operate using social distancing.  These governors should have instead closed business based on "safe" or "not safe."  Obviously, restaurants, fitness clubs, beauty salons had to close.  But why close golf courses?  They could easily have adapted with one person per cart and other social distancing practices.  The same with most retail establishments.  There was no reason to shut down shopping malls, department stores, building centers and the like.

The virus is not a crisis of our own making, but the trashed economy is.  A lot of the carnage could have been prevented.

[Smokin Joe]

I like your glimmer of optimism; that viruses don't live forever, but keep in mind that the flu is a virus and it reappears every season and has done so for decades.

Consider:

Fact check: Herd immunity would not fully stop the spread of coronavirus

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/18/fact-check-herd-immunity-would-not-fully-stop-spread-coronavirus/5156368002/

With the flu:

Avian influenza (AI) viruses are classified by a combination of two groups of proteins: hemagglutinin or “H” proteins, of which there are 16 (H1 to H16), and neuraminidase or “N” proteins, of which there are nine (N1 to N9).

Many different combinations of “H” and “N” proteins are possible. Each combination is considered a different subtype and can be further broken down into different strains.  AI viruses are further classified by their pathogenicity, low or high, based upon the ability of a particular virus strain to cause disease in chickens.

Highly pathogenic avian influenza viruses in poultry are usually H5 or H7 subtypes of Type A influenza, although low pathogenic forms of these H5 and H7 viruses also exist.

  USGS environmental health website

So, of the 16, you get one, and of the 9 you get another, 144 possible combinations. Some infect humans, some don't. Some will kill you some won't. Multiple combinations may be in circulation at any given time.

Spin the wheel, pays your money takes your choice.

The flu keeps "coming back" because of the different variants possible.
Any given year, the "flu shot" is a guess as to what is to be most likely to be circulating that year, infectious, and lethal.