Sources believe coronavirus outbreak originated in Wuhan lab as part of China's efforts to compete w

[Elderberry]

Fox News by  Bret Baier, Gregg Re 4/15/2020

Sources believe coronavirus outbreak originated in Wuhan lab as part of China's efforts to compete with US

There is increasing confidence that the COVID-19 outbreak likely originated in a Wuhan laboratory, though not as a bioweapon but as part of China's attempt to demonstrate that its efforts to identify and combat viruses are equal to or greater than the capabilities of the United States, multiple sources who have been briefed on the details of early actions by China's government and seen relevant materials tell Fox News.

This may be the "costliest government cover-up of all time," one of the sources said.

The sources believe the initial transmission of the virus – a naturally occurring strain that was being studied there – was bat-to-human and that "patient zero" worked at the laboratory, then went into the population in Wuhan.

The “increasing confidence” comes from classified and open-source documents and evidence, the sources said. Fox News has requested to see the evidence directly. Sources emphasized -- as is often the case with intelligence -- that it’s not definitive and should not be characterized as such. Some inside the administration and the intelligence and epidemiological communities are more skeptical, and the investigation is continuing.

More: https://www.foxnews.com/politics/coronavirus-wuhan-lab-china-compete-us-sources

[Smokin Joe]

I don't believe this was naturally occurring. https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3985
Researchers from the Wuhan Institute of Virology were making chimeric viruses in the US until funding got cut and published in 2015 (see link).

They went home after the program here was shut down and proceeded to do more research, with the PLA heavily  involved at the top of that food chain. The research done by the Epoch Times not only picks up on that, but subsequent research done in China, and the political connections. Rather than me lay that all out, here is the video, well worth watching. (and no, I don't work for or have any connection with the Epoch Times, I just have found their reporting on this to be thorough).Error 404 (Not Found)!!1

[goatprairie]

Might have come out of a lab, but the facts are many past viruses have come out of the "wet" markets. The SARs virus was traced to a "wet" market.
Limbaugh was chortling yesterday about the people, like me, who believed it came out of the "wet" markets. He focused on the bats and their supposed lack of involvement in this virus crisis.
But actually there are a numerous animals that could have caused an outbreak. Like pangolins and other weird critters.
We still don't know for sure that it came from a lab, but I'm willing to accept that theory.
Nevertheless, whether it came from a lab or a "wet" market, the Chinese government is responsible for the spread. However the virus spread, I want severe sanctions imposed on the ChiComs.


p.s .Limbaugh contradicted himself on his show yesterday. First he said he wasn't ready to believe the ChiComs deliberately spread the virus, and then he said it sure looks like they deliberately spread the virus.

[Smokin Joe]

Might have come out of a lab, but the facts are many past viruses have come out of the "wet" markets.
Limbaugh was chortling yesterday about the people, like me, who believed it came out of the "wet" markets. He focused on the bats and their supposed lack of involvement in this virus crisis.
But actually there are a numerous animals that could have caused an outbreak. Like pangolins and other weird critters. The SARs virus was traced to a "wet" market.
We still don't know for sure that it came from a lab, but I'm willing to accept that theory.
Nevertheless, whether it came from a lab or a "wet" market, the Chinese government is responsible for the spread. However the virus spread, I want severe sanctions imposed on the ChiComs.


p.s .Limbaugh contradicted himself on his show yesterday. First he said he wasn't ready to believe the ChiComs deliberately spread the virus, and then he said it sure looks like they deliberately spread the virus.

The first question that raises a flag with the wet market story is that it is a seafood market. Bats aren't sold there. Second, the problem is that there were roughly 1/3 of early cases not associated with the seafood market in any way, and until the Chinese changed the parameters for considering an illness to be caused by SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19) to ONLY include those associated with the seafood market, they were included in the rapidly expanding database.

By redefining the disease, regardless of pathogen, the true origins of the disease have been obscured, as was the beginning of the outbreak. Patient zero likely had nothing to do with the market. By the time the outbreak had expanded into the market, it is likely there were multiple carriers and that is why the explosion in the number of cases.

There is a trail of research papers, in which the creation of viruses which have the gross characteristics of SARS-CoV-2 is documented, The earliest I found is in Nature, https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3985 but even that research was based on other and earlier research. This particular paper, to me is a smoking gun. That two of the researchers were from (and returned to) the Wuhan Institute of Virology is just too much coincidence to not see a connection.

There are lots of things we might not want to believe, but are still true. (normalcy bias)
When I first heard that a plane had hit the WTC tower, I thought of the accident in 1947 where a B-25 hit the Empire State Building, surprised that such an accident could occur in the US in 2001.
When I heard the second plane hit the other tower, it dawned on me it was an attack.

[goatprairie]

The first question that raises a flag with the wet market story is that it is a seafood market. Bats aren't sold there. Second, the problem is that there were roughly 1/3 of early cases not associated with the seafood market in any way, and until the Chinese changed the parameters for considering an illness to be caused by SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19) to ONLY include those associated with the seafood market, they were included in the rapidly expanding database.

By redefining the disease, regardless of pathogen, the true origins of the disease have been obscured, as was the beginning of the outbreak. Patient zero likely had nothing to do with the market. By the time the outbreak had expanded into the market, it is likely there were multiple carriers and that is why the explosion in the number of cases.

There is a trail of research papers, in which the creation of viruses which have the gross characteristics of SARS-CoV-2 is documented, The earliest I found is in Nature, https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3985 but even that research was based on other and earlier research. This particular paper, to me is a smoking gun. That two of the researchers were from (and returned to) the Wuhan Institute of Virology is just too much coincidence to not see a connection.

There are lots of things we might not want to believe, but are still true. (normalcy bias)
When I first heard that a plane had hit the WTC tower, I thought of the accident in 1947 where a B-25 hit the Empire State Building, surprised that such an accident could occur in the US in 2001.
When I heard the second plane hit the other tower, it dawned on me it was an attack.

yes, I agree...the current virus (and maybe some others) could have come from a lab.
But the facts are these "wet" markets have been responsible for past plagues when there was no bio-lab nearby.  "Wet" markets are dangerous and should be shut down.

[truth_seeker]

Yesterday dogs were mentioned, too.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/HarbinSHS/members/

nearly 17,000 members in FB group for dog rescue-adoption mainly US-Canada

[Smokin Joe]

yes, I agree...the current virus (and maybe some others) could have come from a lab.
But the facts are these "wet" markets have been responsible for past plagues when there was no bio-lab nearby.  "Wet" markets are dangerous and should be shut down.

They are basically the Chinese equivalent of a grocery store, selling fresh meat and produce. a dry market would be selling durable goods like fabrics and electronics.

The propaganda people over there (PLA) made a big show of shutting this one down and sanitizing it, clearing it out first. (AKA "destroyed the alleged crime scene).

But yes, because of general conditions in livestock rearing areas, there is opportunity for cross  species infection and mutation of diseases to become contagious to humans. The province most noted for that, however, is Guangdong, where many influenza variants have apparently originated. Hubei Province (where Wuhan is) is considerably further north.

And, perhaps of note, not proximal to a BioSafety Level 4 (Highest danger) research lab.

[truth_seeker]

I remember separate neighborhood markets in Germany for meat, bakery etc.

fowl and small mammels would be displayed. I remember as a kid in Colorado, at a neighbor's yard where the chickedn were beheaded, and left to run around the yard.

That was "wet"

[Bigun]

FWIW, after much reading and watching, I'm one of the ones convinced that this virus was engineered in a lab and released accidentally on purpose.

Why else would the Chinese authorities shut down travel to all other parts of China from Wuhan but NOT shut down international travel from there?   Explain that to me if you can.

[Smokin Joe]

FWIW, after much reading and watching, I'm one of the ones convinced that this virus was engineered in a lab and released accidentally on purpose.

Why else would the Chinese authorities shut down travel to all other parts of China from Wuhan but NOT shut down international travel from there?   Explain that to me if you can.

Carriers...and not for the navy.

[Bigun]

Carriers...and not for the navy.

  There simply is no other logical explanation.