Is/was coronavirus a bio-weapon gone wrong or did the virus come from the wet markets as they claim?

[corbe]

  What say you, Briefers?

   

[bigheadfred]

I went with option one. But I don't think it is "gone wrong". In the sense that dependency on the nanny state will be the ultimate goal/outcome. Which has always been the goal.

[bigheadfred]

According to Wikipedia patient zero was identified on Dec. 1, 2019 and had NO contact with the wet market. Although there is a 'story' that patient zero was identified in November.

[Free Vulcan]

I read alot of tweets by top shelf geneticists, epidemiologists, and the like, and they all were doubtful of this being a natural virus.

Not to mention all the Wuhan related hanky-panky going on before this went down.

[bigheadfred]

I read alot of tweets by top shelf geneticists, epidemiologists, and the like, and they all were doubtful of this being a natural virus.

Not to mention all the Wuhan related hanky-panky going on before this went down.

I have read a lot of academic articles/papers, too. Both for and against.

If this came from an animal in a wet market then show me "the" animal.

 

[corbe]

[Smokin Joe]

I think someone was selling used lab animals on the side, and that likely a couple of humans got it from those before they were in the market.

[Bigun]

I think both answers are applicable.  I agree with @Smokin Joe

[libertybele]

Bio weapon gone wrong?  I think definitely a bio weapon, but gone wrong?  Not so sure. Well, I have thought of several possibilities. Maybe China's intent is to cripple the world economy and China is hoping to devalue the dollar so much that the Chinese currency will become the world currency.  This may be retaliatory power grab because of Trump's tariffs.  Sure it impacted their people as well -- but getting rid of some of their older population will be a relief on their economy.

I also wouldn't be at all surprised if the Bidens, Clintons and Obama are involved.  The DEMS will stop at absolutely nothing to ensure that Trump is not re-elected.

I have some other theories, but better to not post.

IMHO, I think Trump knows or at least suspects what happened ... he's been good at not reacting and accusing...he can't...yet.

[Smokin Joe]

Bio weapon gone wrong?  I think definitely a bio weapon, but gone wrong?  Not so sure. Well, I have thought of several possibilities. Maybe China's intent is to cripple the world economy and China is hoping to devalue the dollar so much that the Chinese currency will become the world currency.  This may be retaliatory power grab because of Trump's tariffs.  Sure it impacted their people as well -- but getting rid of some of their older population will be a relief on their economy.

I also wouldn't be at all surprised if the Bidens, Clintons and Obama are involved.  The DEMS will stop at absolutely nothing to ensure that Trump is not re-elected.

I have some other theories, but better to not post.

IMHO, I think Trump knows or at least suspects what happened ... he's been good at not reacting and accusing...he can't...yet.

I think it may be 'gone wrong' in the sense that the timing was not under control (fully intentional).
Attempts to cover up the virus and destroy samples may indicate a desire to keep it secret for a planned release later.
In a planned release, you would think the story would have been set up, the virus released in some other population in a different country, even if it could be tied back to China.
I'm not sure the Chinese planned to dump  this in their own population to the apparent extent it has been, if at all.
It would have been far easier to find a way to spread it using 'escapees', expendable trade personnel, students, or even keep it under wraps looking for ways to make it more deadly.

Once it was out, their pronouncements certainly contributed to the spread, but I think that is because it was out already and they decided to maybe (deniably) make the most of it, which is why we keep hearing that patient zero was from the wet market, even though I recall hearing information to the contrary.

The nonsense about H2H transmission being nonexistent, then difficult, then coming clean after it was obvious that H2H transmission was going on would all have the effect to amplifying the outbreak.

As for the Dems, from the announcements in NYC to the CDC to the WHO (just global socialists, not Democrats), flawed test kits, State Dept personnel putting infected people on a flight to the US with uninfected people despite orders to the contrary, etc., all served to enhance the spread and increase the panic, putting the stock market in free fall.
Panic, calamity, economic crash, increased debt, opportunity to berate Trump, and FEAR, all designed to blow your mind and a crisis not to be wasted, IF the MSM, the Dems, and their fellow travelers can get away with that.

Do I think the likes of the Clintons, Soros, and others would capitalize on the deaths of thousands to get and keep power? Oh, hell yeah. Not to  mention create market volatility that could make them trillions.
Even to establish precedent for shelving the Constitution for the 'duration of the Emergency' would serve their goals nicely, because we can always have another emergency when they are in power, real or not.
Believe that TPTB are studying the action/reaction response patterns in this, looking for ways to refine how far, how much, they can push the public and what level of panic has to be ginned up before people are tearfully begging for their Rights to be shredded just to feel safe.

If POTUS were to accuse the Chinese of an act of war, he would have to respond. Not the best time for that, and the American People know where this came from, will blame the Chinese for the shortages in the stores (even though that is a demand/supply problem), and will come out of this with an understanding, not that we need a global economy, but that we'd damn sure better be able to provide what we need for our own selves.
In that sense, there will be opportunity to rebuild and even regrow our economy, and if we take a Rosie the Riveter "can do"  attitude toward that, we will be stronger in the long run, and our enemies will come out of the fracas deprived of a source of income.

[Bigun]

I think it may be 'gone wrong' in the sense that the timing was not under control (fully intentional).
Attempts to cover up the virus and destroy samples may indicate a desire to keep it secret for a planned release later.
In a planned release, you would think the story would have been set up, the virus released in some other population in a different country, even if it could be tied back to China.
I'm not sure the Chinese planned to dump  this in their own population to the apparent extent it has been, if at all.
It would have been far easier to find a way to spread it using 'escapees', expendable trade personnel, students, or even keep it under wraps looking for ways to make it more deadly.

Once it was out, their pronouncements certainly contributed to the spread, but I think that is because it was out already and they decided to maybe (deniably) make the most of it, which is why we keep hearing that patient zero was from the wet market, even though I recall hearing information to the contrary.

The nonsense about H2H transmission being nonexistent, then difficult, then coming clean after it was obvious that H2H transmission was going on would all have the effect to amplifying the outbreak.

As for the Dems, from the announcements in NYC to the CDC to the WHO (just global socialists, not Democrats), flawed test kits, State Dept personnel putting infected people on a flight to the US with uninfected people despite orders to the contrary, etc., all served to enhance the spread and increase the panic, putting the stock market in free fall.
Panic, calamity, economic crash, increased debt, opportunity to berate Trump, and FEAR, all designed to blow your mind and a crisis not to be wasted, IF the MSM, the Dems, and their fellow travelers can get away with that.

Do I think the likes of the Clintons, Soros, and others would capitalize on the deaths of thousands to get and keep power? Oh, hell yeah. Not to  mention create market volatility that could make them trillions.
Even to establish precedent for shelving the Constitution for the 'duration of the Emergency' would serve their goals nicely, because we can always have another emergency when they are in power, real or not.
Believe that TPTB are studying the action/reaction response patterns in this, looking for ways to refine how far, how much, they can push the public and what level of panic has to be ginned up before people are tearfully begging for their Rights to be shredded just to feel safe.

If POTUS were to accuse the Chinese of an act of war, he would have to respond. Not the best time for that, and the American People know where this came from, will blame the Chinese for the shortages in the stores (even though that is a demand/supply problem), and will come out of this with an understanding, not that we need a global economy, but that we'd damn sure better be able to provide what we need for our own selves.
In that sense, there will be opportunity to rebuild and even regrow our economy, and if we take a Rosie the Riveter "can do"  attitude toward that, we will be stronger in the long run, and our enemies will come out of the fracas deprived of a source of income.

The Clintons have been in bed with the CHICOMS for at least thirty years- anyone besides me remember the names Charlie Tre and John Huang? -  and regardless of HOW it got out, IMO it is serving them well as a trial balloon so to speak.

[Smokin Joe]

The Clintons have been in bed with the CHICOMS for at least thirty years- anyone besides me remember the names Charlie Tre and John Huang? -  and regardless of HOW it got out, IMO it is serving them well as a trial balloon so to speak.

I recall Loral and Hughes Aerospace helping them launch satellites, only when the rocket crashed, the critical electronics for the attitude and control package were missing. Suddenly, the Clintons were richer and the Chinese could launch to LEO...all by themselves.

[Bigun]

I recall Loral and Hughes Aerospace helping them launch satellites, only when the rocket crashed, the critical electronics for the attitude and control package were missing. Suddenly, the Clintons were richer and the Chinese could launch to LEO...all by themselves.

Not to mention MIRVs.

[jafo2010]

I know someone that spent decades in bio weapons, and that individual says it is a bio weapon.  And regardless how it was released, it was, and the Chicoms worked hard to cover it all up.  And for good reason when you think that their only bio weapons lab is in Wuhan.

And the Clintons being involved just points to their reputation.  Anything is possible, and I do not discount the idea they coordinated with the Chicoms with the intent to discredit Trump.  Nothing is beyond the realm of belief.  There are many dead that were once around the Clintons, dying young and violent deaths.

And I still believe it will be CLINTON vs TRUMP.  I believe she has been pulling the strings for two years.

[Smokin Joe]

I know someone that spent decades in bio weapons, and that individual says it is a bio weapon.  And regardless how it was released, it was, and the Chicoms worked hard to cover it all up.  And for good reason when you think that their only vio weapons lab is in Wuhan.

And the Clintons being involved just points to their reputation.  Anything is possible, and I do not discount the idea they coordinated with the Chicoms with the intent to discredit Trump.  Nothing is beyond the realm of belief.  There are many dead that were once around the Clintons, dying young and violent deaths.

And I still believe it will be CLINTON vs TRUMP.  I believe she has been pulling the strings for two years.

She or her handlers. After all, Epstein didn't kill himself...

[jmyrlefuller]

Those markets are filthy. It's no secret that several disease threats have emerged from China.

But even if it were or were not a Chinese bioweapon, I'm pretty sure the Chinese were in no rush to stop it from being exported.

[Smokin Joe]

Those markets are filthy. It's no secret that several disease threats have emerged from China.

But even if it were or were not a Chinese bioweapon, I'm pretty sure the Chinese were in no rush to stop it from being exported.

Not lethal enough to get nuked for, but a good test case. Study Government/medical/public response, effectiveness, remodel plan...
Sell a few 'lightly used' animals from the lab to the wet market, and off to the races...

[mortarman]

I think it was both.

The Clintons have been in bed with the CHICOMS for at least thirty years- anyone besides me remember the names Charlie Tre and John Huang? -  and regardless of HOW it got out, IMO it is serving them well as a trial balloon so to speak.

Also the Chappaquaw Crime Cartel sold US ICBM guidance technology to the ChiComms in 1996 for a $300,000 campaign contribution that ElfGlobe the Humongous picked up in cash from the Budhist nuns in Indonesia.

 

[The_Reader_David]

Of course, there's another possibility (and the one I think most likely):  neither.  It came from the Wuhan Institute of Virology (but was just being studied there, not developed as weapon) either by way of a researcher working on coronaviruses in bats getting infected and taking it home, or improper disposal of contaminated waste from the bat research project, or an actual leak from the laboratory, or an underpaid staff member selling lab animals as meat.  We know (public job postings) that there was a project on bat coronaviruses that was hiring in November, and that one of their top researchers Shi Zhengli (nick-named "bat woman" because of her research specialty) fretted that it could have come from the lab.

[jpsb]

I wnet with 1

Ask yourself why would the Chinese (and WHO) lie about this virus for months if they did not want it to spread. We were winning the trade war with China until we got hit with SAARS-cov-2. Now our economy is it the toilet and the Chinese are making the most of it. While they are telling the world that the virus does not spread from one human to another human they bought up all the buyable PPEs, they bought 1 billion N95 masks back in Dec. Clearly the Chinese wanted this virus to spread.

[Smokin Joe]

Once more, with feeling....

https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3985

Published: 09 November 2015

Two of the researchers are from the Wuhan Institute of Virology.

From tthe Abstract:

Using the SARS-CoV reverse genetics system2, we generated and characterized a chimeric virus expressing the spike of bat coronavirus SHC014 in a mouse-adapted SARS-CoV backbone. The results indicate that group 2b viruses encoding the SHC014 spike in a wild-type backbone can efficiently use multiple orthologs of the SARS receptor human angiotensin converting enzyme II (ACE2), replicate efficiently in primary human airway cells and achieve in vitro titers equivalent to epidemic strains of SARS-CoV. Additionally, in vivo experiments demonstrate replication of the chimeric virus in mouse lung with notable pathogenesis. Evaluation of available SARS-based immune-therapeutic and prophylactic modalities revealed poor efficacy; both monoclonal antibody and vaccine approaches failed to neutralize and protect from infection with CoVs using the novel spike protein. On the basis of these findings, we synthetically re-derived an infectious full-length SHC014 recombinant virus and demonstrate robust viral replication both in vitro and in vivo. Our work suggests a potential risk of SARS-CoV re-emergence from viruses currently circulating in bat populations.

Sound familiar? Anyone?

[Bigun]

Once more, with feeling....

https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3985

Published: 09 November 2015

Two of the researchers are from the Wuhan Institute of Virology.

From tthe Abstract:

Sound familiar? Anyone?

Looks like that gun is smoking to me!

[The_Reader_David]

Ask yourself why would the Chinese (and WHO) lie about this virus for months if they did not want it to spread.

Why?  Why did the Soviets lie about the Chernobyl disaster?  Why do farms and factories in Communist countries lie about production figures so that their central planners don't have a clue what's really going on? 

The CYA sort of lying that's endemic in bureaucracies world wide is even worse when telling unpleasant truths to the higher ups get you a trip to the gulag or a bullet to the back of the skull, rather than just being pass over for promotion or suddenly needing to sharpen your resume.

[whitney69]

I'll answer your questions with a question. The horseshoe bat, the one that is attributed to C-19, is not a monogamous animal. They are prolific breeders. They have been found in great numbers from the east coast of China and Hong Kong to northern Africa and as far north as the Netherlands and Siberia on the mainland. Nests have been found in Iceland and Japan. So with all these bats, in hundreds of thousands of square mile of countries and oceans, how did this virus break out within miles of the Wuhan Institute of Virology, China's newest and largest bio weapons research facility by accident with China being the world leader in sales of bioweapons? And Trump started to even the score on trade deficits with tariffs in November 2019 about the time the virus surfaced. Coincidence? That would be a stretch wouldn't it for an illness that has been killing world wide and is traced to there?

[Smokin Joe]

https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3985

Note the Authors, and that among them, Xing-Yi Ge is from

Xing-Yi Ge    Key Laboratory of Special Pathogens and Biosafety, Wuhan Institute of Virology, Chinese Academy of Sciences, Wuhan, China

and (I missed this the first time I posted this information) Zhengli-Li Shi

Zhengli-Li Shi     Key Laboratory of Special Pathogens and Biosafety, Wuhan Institute of Virology, Chinese Academy of Sciences, Wuhan, China

From the Abstract:

Using the SARS-CoV reverse genetics system2, we generated and characterized a chimeric virus expressing the spike of bat coronavirus SHC014 in a mouse-adapted SARS-CoV backbone. The results indicate that group 2b viruses encoding the SHC014 spike in a wild-type backbone can efficiently use multiple orthologs of the SARS receptor human angiotensin converting enzyme II (ACE2), replicate efficiently in primary human airway cells and achieve in vitro titers equivalent to epidemic strains of SARS-CoV. Additionally, in vivo experiments demonstrate replication of the chimeric virus in mouse lung with notable pathogenesis. Evaluation of available SARS-based immune-therapeutic and prophylactic modalities revealed poor efficacy; both monoclonal antibody and vaccine approaches failed to neutralize and protect from infection with CoVs using the novel spike protein. On the basis of these findings, we synthetically re-derived an infectious full-length SHC014 recombinant virus and demonstrate robust viral replication both in vitro and in vivo. Our work suggests a potential risk of SARS-CoV re-emergence from viruses currently circulating in bat populations.

This research was done in North Carolina in 2014, funded (at least in part) by the NIAID. The paper was published in the journal Nature in 2015 after the project was shut down in North Carolina and moved to the Wuhan Institute of Virology in China. Funding continued from the NIAID to the tune of 7.5 million dollars.

The lab in Wuhan is a BSL-4 lab, the highest biosecurity level. I find it highly unlikely that the virus in Wuhan was anything but a chimera virus crated in the lab, and whether it got out by accident or design is moot (well almost).
Large numbers of Chinese were infected, starting possibly as early as September 2019, and that outbreak was covered up by the CCP. At that time, while travel inside of China was restricted, international travel remained unrestricted. Data were withheld, samples and records concealed or destroyed, as was the "wet market" destroyed (dismantled and sanitized) rather than investigate the source. Information given to the WHO was initially incorrect as to how communicable the disease was, and the head of the WHO was installed at the behest of the Chinese.
That this was timed to occur in an election year, that the primary purveyor of knowledge and advice is Fauci, who had knowledge of this pathogen, or at least the program that generated it, who warned of a surprise epidemic during the Trump Administration (not just some time in the future) and may have acted in self interest rather than public health, especially considering the almost inexplicable assault on proven treatments which work in other countries, but apparently not here if you believe the CDC.