Trump's push for risky malaria drugs disrupts coronavirus response

[Chosen Daughter]

Trump's push for risky malaria drugs disrupts coronavirus response
“All this buzz is confusing the American public," said one senior Health and Human Services official involved in drug policy.

By SARAH OWERMOHLE and DAN DIAMOND
03/27/2020 06:18 PM EDT


President Donald Trump’s all-out push to advance unproven coronavirus treatments is deepening a divide between the White House and career health officials, who are being pulled away from other potential projects to address the president’s hunch that decades-old malaria medicines can be coronavirus cures.

The White House directed health officials to set up a project to track if the antimalarial drugs chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine show promise — a dayslong effort that distracted from urgent tasks like trials of other medicines thought to have more potential against the virus. Food and Drug Administration officials also reversed a nearly six-year ban on a troubled Indian manufacturer in a bid to secure the drugs, and top advisers to Trump have encouraged other agencies to locate as much of the product as possible. The White House is also pressuring Medicare officials to pay for unproven treatments being given to desperate patients during a pandemic.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/27/trump-malaria-coronavirus-152498

[Mesaclone]

My sisters a nurse in New Jersey...working in New York every day. She tells me the ONLY thing that is working consistently is Chloroquine with ZPacks. Trump is 100% right to push this drug. It works.

[Chosen Daughter]

My sisters a nurse in New Jersey...working in New York every day. She tells me the ONLY thing that is working consistently is Chloroquine with ZPacks. Trump is 100% right to push this drug. It works.

If that is true then it would be widely published.  Perhaps you have a written story?  New York urgently needs a cure.

[libertybele]

My sisters a nurse in New Jersey...working in New York every day. She tells me the ONLY thing that is working consistently is Chloroquine with ZPacks. Trump is 100% right to push this drug. It works.

The problem is that the combination of the two often times causes arrhythmia which would be especially fatal in heart patients.  For others, when death is knocking on their door, it seems likely to be a lifesaver.   It has been proven in several cases to have saved the lives of corona victims -- neither drug has been approved for use in combating the virus so the use is off label and I believe perhaps that's a stumbling block.

[Chosen Daughter]

The problem is that the combination of the two often times causes arrhythmia which would be especially fatal in heart patients.  For others, when death is knocking on their door, it seems likely to be a lifesaver.

I saw that and it looks like the FDA has several drugs they want to try.  Any trials they have done in New York would be only this week.

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200324/fda-approved-drugs-show-promise-against-covid-19#1


They even list Chemo drug.  NO. 

[Hoodat]

If that is true then it would be widely published.  Perhaps you have a written story?  New York urgently needs a cure.

https://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/politics/letter-from-dr-zelenko/89230922/

[Chosen Daughter]

someone needs to fix the above post.

Backed by Trump, Dr. Zelenko Responds to Critics Of His Virus Cure

https://collive.com/backed-by-trump-dr-zelenko-responds-to-critics-of-his-virus-cure/

Video

Watch: Dr. Zev Zelenko Responds to Letter from Kiryas Yoel Against His COVID-19 Activism
March 25, 2020
12:10 pm

https://matzav.com/watch-dr-zev-zelenko-responds-to-letter-from-kiryas-yoel-against-his-covid-19-activism/

[jafo2010]

The protocol by Dr Zelenko above appears to be logical.  I fully support what he is doing.

Left to the FDA, millions of Americans would die because of their process.  This is where having a strong kick *ss POTUS makes a difference.  Had Clinton been POTUS, there would be 200,000 dead Americans before she admitted there was a problem.  And Joe Biden's response would be, I'll take the Tutti Fruiti Ice Cream.

Hydrozychloroquine is not the same as Chloroquine.  Hydroxy is more potent.  And my understanding from my wife, a physician, is that the Hydroxy presents issues for the heart as a side affect.  When she took it in Africa while fighting ebola and trying to prevent malaria, it screwed up her mind, and she had to stop taking it.  It has a number of side affects.  But when you are faced with death, I say f*&^ the FDA, save the life.

And I wish I could say I was surprised docs suggested chemo.  A tablet of Hydroxychloroquine cost one dime, whereas a chemo treatment runs $1,500 - $10,000 per application.  Wonder why they would recommend chemo?  No mystery here!!!  Talk about shortages!  But hey, Putin would get richer as his Uranium One would be the primary supplier for chemo products.  LOL

[Chosen Daughter]

The protocol by Dr Zelenko above appears to be logical.  I fully support what he is doing.

Left to the FDA, millions of Americans would die because of their process.  This is where having a strong kick *ss POTUS makes a difference.  Had Clinton been POTUS, there would be 200,000 dead Americans before she admitted there was a problem.  And Joe Biden's response would be, I'll take the Tutti Fruiti Ice Cream.

Hydrozychloroquine is not the same as Chloroquine.  Hydroxy is more potent.  And my understanding from my wife, a physician, is that the Hydroxy presents issues for the heart as a side affect.  When she took it in Africa while fighting ebola and trying to prevent malaria, it screwed up her mind, and she had to stop taking it.  It has a number of side affects.  But when you are faced with death, I say f*&^ the FDA, save the life.

And I wish I could say I was surprised docs suggested chemo.  A tablet of Hydroxychloroquine cost one dime, whereas a chemo treatment runs $1,500 - $10,000 per application.  Wonder why they would recommend chemo?  No mystery here!!!  Talk about shortages!  But hey, Putin would get richer as his Uranium One would be the primary supplier for chemo products.  LOL

Made me think that perhaps this is the Federal drug pusher.  I had cancer and rejected chemo.  I am thankful to this day.  I don't know about the Hydrozychloroquine.  They are allowing studies so, I guess we will see.  I appreciate your information.  I think all chemical drugs are dangerous so I am not a fan of any.  But your right if they are going to die I guess its worth a try.

I am doing my best to stay healthy naturally.  The government never recognizes any natural healing sources, but I bet there is one to knock this out.

[Mesaclone]

If that is true then it would be widely published.  Perhaps you have a written story?  New York urgently needs a cure.

There's no "if" its true, my sister is there and witnessing directly the results. There's a small but anecdotal study of France showing significant results and practitioners like Dr. Zelenko here in the U.S. are lauding the potential of Chloroquine/ZPack treatment...and a number of countries are using this as a treatment (Poland among others). Its not a panacea, but it IS very effective and is saving many lives.

Doing a full study is a multi-year process so you're not going to find published peer-reviewed case studies...new virus type and new things are being tried. This one is working. Remdesvir is also said to be showing tremendous promise. In this kind of crisis, what works in the field is going to become evident long before a full study can be completed.

[GtHawk]

There's no "if" its true, my sister is there and witnessing directly the results. There's a small but anecdotal study of France showing significant results and practitioners like Dr. Zelenko here in the U.S. are lauding the potential of Chloroquine/ZPack treatment...and a number of countries are using this as a treatment (Poland among others). Its not a panacea, but it IS very effective and is saving many lives.

Doing a full study is a multi-year process so you're not going to find published peer-reviewed case studies...new virus type and new things are being tried. This one is working. Remdesvir is also said to be showing tremendous promise. In this kind of crisis, what works in the field is going to become evident long before a full study can be completed.

Seems like the WHO sees that Chloroquine might be more than just dangerous talk by Trump (shocking that, to some) since they are including it in a global megatrial.
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/03/who-launches-global-megatrial-four-most-promising-coronavirus-treatments
I understand that some are really really concerned about New York, what about the rest of America, the world ?

[libertybele]

There's no "if" its true, my sister is there and witnessing directly the results. There's a small but anecdotal study of France showing significant results and practitioners like Dr. Zelenko here in the U.S. are lauding the potential of Chloroquine/ZPack treatment...and a number of countries are using this as a treatment (Poland among others). Its not a panacea, but it IS very effective and is saving many lives.

Doing a full study is a multi-year process so you're not going to find published peer-reviewed case studies...new virus type and new things are being tried. This one is working. Remdesvir is also said to be showing tremendous promise. In this kind of crisis, what works in the field is going to become evident long before a full study can be completed.

Yes, there have been several reports of people being saved by using Chloroquine/Zpack  -- that's not the problem.  The problem is that the combination often causes heart arrhythmia which can lead to death, especially in heart patients.  I would assume in patients without heart disease, this would prove to be a lifesaver.  Your sister has seen lives being saved -- that is what matters and yes we don't have time to do full studies that could take years.

[Hoodat]

Yes, there have been several reports of people being saved by using Chloroquine/Zpack  -- that's not the problem.  The problem is that the combination often causes heart arrhythmia which can lead to death, especially in heart patients.  I would assume in patients without heart disease, this would prove to be a lifesaver.  Your sister has seen lives being saved -- that is what matters and yes we don't have time to do full studies that could take years.

Sorry folks, this is not a medical efficacy thread.   It's a Trump-bashing thread.  Try to stay on topic, people.

[bilo]

The problem is that the combination of the two often times causes arrhythmia which would be especially fatal in heart patients.  For others, when death is knocking on their door, it seems likely to be a lifesaver.   It has been proven in several cases to have saved the lives of corona victims -- neither drug has been approved for use in combating the virus so the use is off label and I believe perhaps that's a stumbling block.

Only for bureaucrats. Fauci says he would prescribe these drugs.

Trump is right when death is knocking on the door "what do you have to lose?"

[truth_seeker]

Yes, there have been several reports of people being saved by using Chloroquine/Zpack  -- that's not the problem.  The problem is that the combination often causes heart arrhythmia which can lead to death, especially in heart patients.  I would assume in patients without heart disease, this would prove to be a lifesaver.  Your sister has seen lives being saved -- that is what matters and yes we don't have time to do full studies that could take years.

Medical treatments almost always have risks. The doctor and the patient considers the facts with eyes wide open.

Like every post, from the original posting member, her motive was clearly #nevertrump
 
Like diptheria in the 1890s, polio in the 1950s, those with lives saved would firmly rebuke such an obvious politization.

[bilo]

Sorry folks, this is not a medical efficacy thread.   It's a Trump-bashing thread.  Try to stay on topic, people.

ROTFLOL!

Trump makes his share of mistakes, but one of his great qualities is once it's time to take action he goes 100 mph and expects everyone else to do the same or get out of the way, this is how you win. The navy hospital ship is a good example. The navy was telling him it would takes week to get it retrofitted and on it's way to NY. He told them get it done now and now it is on it's way. The same with this treatment. He never said it was the cure, but he did say it looks really promising and why not try something.

Trump pushes ahead while others stand around and look for reasons not to.

[TomSea]

Some people are really sold in the treatment, FWIW:

https://twitter.com/JanieHsieh

I believe France is also being active in enabling it for treatment in that country.

Sounds like it is effective.

[PeteS in CA]

If that is true then it would be widely published.  Perhaps you have a written story?  New York urgently needs a cure.

@Chosen Daughter, easily. I've posted these elsewhere, possibly multiple times, but, https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/bst/14/1/14_2020.01047/_pdf/-char/en

Breakthrough: Chloroquine phosphate has shown apparent efficacy in treatment of COVID-19 associated pneumonia in clinical studies

Summary:

The coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) virus is spreading rapidly, and scientists are endeavoring to discover drugs for its efficacious treatment in China. Chloroquine phosphate, an old drug for treatment of malaria, is shown to have apparent efficacy and acceptable safety against COVID-19 associated pneumonia in multicenter clinical trials conducted in China. The drug is recommended to be included in the next version of the Guidelines for the Prevention, Diagnosis, and Treatment of Pneumonia Caused by COVID-19 issued by the National Health Commission of the People's Republic of China for treatment of COVID-19 infection in larger populations in the future.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vR1adodKPhWalV9djnerI2x_v1LGgGyhZZxpl0O5r-ZNyDdagqFq1rTCxXBqaeicfxgvypDOqKCZVyV/pub

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41422-020-0282-0?fbclid=IwAR2JbbZU_Hl7uLjuOTDhrNnmczzyEFvnIhY8QHv9ghY5fYBvX0IsmnhD07w

BTW, Chloroquine has been used as a malaria treatment for more decades than I've been alive, so its safety and proper dosing are very well known. Fish tank anti-parasite treatment, not so much. Anyway, maybe instead of posting MSM lies you should be asking why the MSM are lying.

ETA: Also, somebody posted this thread yesterday, http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,396263.0.html , about successes Bahrain and Belgium have had with Chloroquine.

[Chosen Daughter]

@Chosen Daughter, easily. I've posted these elsewhere, possibly multiple times, but, https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/bst/14/1/14_2020.01047/_pdf/-char/en

Breakthrough: Chloroquine phosphate has shown apparent efficacy in treatment of COVID-19 associated pneumonia in clinical studies

Summary:

The coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) virus is spreading rapidly, and scientists are endeavoring to discover drugs for its efficacious treatment in China. Chloroquine phosphate, an old drug for treatment of malaria, is shown to have apparent efficacy and acceptable safety against COVID-19 associated pneumonia in multicenter clinical trials conducted in China. The drug is recommended to be included in the next version of the Guidelines for the Prevention, Diagnosis, and Treatment of Pneumonia Caused by COVID-19 issued by the National Health Commission of the People's Republic of China for treatment of COVID-19 infection in larger populations in the future.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vR1adodKPhWalV9djnerI2x_v1LGgGyhZZxpl0O5r-ZNyDdagqFq1rTCxXBqaeicfxgvypDOqKCZVyV/pub

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41422-020-0282-0?fbclid=IwAR2JbbZU_Hl7uLjuOTDhrNnmczzyEFvnIhY8QHv9ghY5fYBvX0IsmnhD07w

BTW, Chloroquine has been used as a malaria treatment for more decades than I've been alive, so its safety and proper dosing are very well known. Fish tank anti-parasite treatment, not so much. Anyway, maybe instead of posting MSM lies you should be asking why the MSM are lying.

ETA: Also, somebody posted this thread yesterday about successes Bahrain and Belgium have had with Chloroquine.

Well I see I have taken a trashing once again.  On this I am suspicious of almost all chemical drugs.  If it is working then yes, I apologize.  But I personally believe that almost all medications have and adverse affect on your health and there should be scrutinized and tested.  And many seniors are prescribed so much medicine and one leads to another prescription.  I am of the opinion that many people are taking things that are perscribed just to counter the affects of another drug.

I posted this from Politico.  I don't consider them a liberal source.  More of a centrist source.  But if the medicine is really saving lives I agree it should be used, but only for those whose life is seriously in danger.

About the drug and side affects

https://www.drugs.com/hydroxychloroquine.html

[Mesaclone]

Well I see I have taken a trashing once again.  On this I am suspicious of almost all chemical drugs.  If it is working then yes, I apologize.  But I personally believe that almost all medications have and adverse affect on your health and there should be scrutinized and tested.  And many seniors are prescribed so much medicine and one leads to another prescription.  I am of the opinion that many people are taking things that are perscribed just to counter the affects of another drug.

I posted this from Politico.  I don't consider them a liberal source.  More of a centrist source.  But if the medicine is really saving lives I agree it should be used, but only for those whose life is seriously in danger.

@Chosen Daughter

First, Politico IS a wildly liberal source.

Second, every drug should be scrutinized and tested before general use...which must be balanced against how many people must die while the FDA spends a year or two testing a drug combo that is actively saving lives in Europe and in places here in the United States. I'm comfortable letting doctors and patients make the call based on what we know NOW...and thank the gods the President is supporting Americans in having that choice.

Third, all drugs and drug combos have potential side effects, but these two drugs happen to have been in common use for other treatments for many years...so the side effects are somewhat known. Is there some risk without full clinical trials...damn right there is...feel free NOT to take this combo if you get sick. For my part, I will be demanding it for myself and family members.

Damn near any doctor worth their salt would give this to their own family were they to contract a life threatening case of Coronavirus...some in at risk positions are taking it NOW as a means of shielding against contracting it.

You started this to bash the President...very unfairly...so you can drop the "I'm getting bashed again" princess attitude. People aren't going to just smile at you when you advocate for Left wing propaganda...they will call you out, as many here have done. And rightly so. We all have a right to our opinions, but none of us have a right to believe those views and our motives can't be questioned...why you think you HAVE such a right is truly a mystery.

[truth_seeker]

Chatterbox got 19 hits with this #nevertrump motivated attempt.

That is a lot of attention, for one lame try. When does once more show up with a "joke?"

[libertybele]

There is also another drug that has been used for treatment against COVID-19; Remdesivir.

The first COVID-19 patient diagnosed in the United States—a young man in Snohomish county in Washington—was given remdesivir when his condition worsened; he improved the next day, according to a case report in The New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM). A Californian patient who received remdesivir—and who doctors thought might not survive—recovered as well.

Trump's "push" is to save as many lives as possible, to contain this virus and to get a vaccine on the market.

Trump has responded incredibly quickly and has joined forces with the private sector to get the job done, testing is increasing, production of ventilators is increasing, as well as masks, gloves, etc.  Hospitals are being erected in an extremely short time, and he has people working on transforming existing structures into hospitals. Thank God he is showing true leadership and thinking out side the box in order to KEEP AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!!

[Chosen Daughter]

@Chosen Daughter

First, Politico IS a wildly liberal source.

Second, every drug should be scrutinized and tested before general use...which must be balanced against how many people must die while the FDA spends a year or two testing a drug combo that is actively saving lives in Europe and in places here in the United States. I'm comfortable letting doctors and patients make the call based on what we know NOW...and thank the gods the President is supporting Americans in having that choice.

Third, all drugs and drug combos have potential side effects, but these two drugs happen to have been in common use for other treatments for many years...so the side effects are somewhat known. Is there some risk without full clinical trials...damn right there is...feel free NOT to take this combo if you get sick. For my part, I will be demanding it for myself and family members.

Damn near any doctor worth their salt would give this to their own family were they to contract a life threatening case of Coronavirus...some in at risk positions are taking it NOW as a means of shielding against contracting it.

You started this to bash the President...very unfairly...so you can drop the "I'm getting bashed again" princess attitude. People aren't going to just smile at you when you advocate for Left wing propaganda...they will call you out, as many here have done. And rightly so. We all have a right to our opinions, but none of us have a right to believe those views and our motives can't be questioned...why you think you HAVE such a right is truly a mystery.

I do not agree that Politico is widely liberal

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/politico/

https://ask.metafilter.com/300154/Is-Politico-a-trustworthy-organization-for-US-news

https://www.addbloglink.com/seeking/politico-bias

They are centrist as far as I am concerned.

I am done taking your attacks.  If I am biased it is against drugs.   If the drugs are working against the virus in the sickest of patients then they should be used.  But testing drugs normally is very important and in my post above I added a link to a drug website telling about the drug.  What it is for.  Who shouldn't use it.  What the side affects are.

Why don't you leave out the personal attacks.

[Fishrrman]

TomSea wrote:
"I believe France is also being active in enabling it for treatment in that country.
Sounds like it is effective."

I believe there's another study that's just been released by that French professor/doctor using the anti-malaria drug combined with "the other one".

80 patients.
All but one recovered quickly.

Controlled tests or no controlled tests.
Those numbers look pretty good to me.

[Chosen Daughter]

And @Mesaclone if you are looking for liberal bias maybe you should report on Donald Trump who gives Nancy Pelosi everything she wants.  And is in agreement with John Kerry and Nancy Pelosi against a Conservative doing his job to question the pork barrel spending spree.