Author Topic: March 8, 2020 - Dow futures down more than 1,000 points, kicking off another rough week for the mark  (Read 2369 times)

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Offline catfish1957

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Alright....  Show Time......

Looks like circuit breakers set.  DJIA on hold @ 24,041, down 7%.
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Offline Gefn

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How can one of my stocks loose $22 in three minutes? It’s going to be a bumpy ride today.
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Offline Idiot

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Looks like circuit breakers set.  DJIA on hold @ 24,041, down 7%.
Still a lot of unknowns out there...fear.  I can't see that we've hit bottom quite yet (maximum pain). 

Offline Cyber Liberty

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S&P 500 circuit breaker is tripped, -7%.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline Neverdul

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So This Is How Liberty Dies, With Thunderous Applause

Offline catfish1957

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Still a lot of unknowns out there...fear.  I can't see that we've hit bottom quite yet (maximum pain).

One positive sign is that the FTSE is only down 8%, and other European markets similarly.  That at least says globally things aren't in free fall.
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline catfish1957

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One positive sign is that the FTSE is only down 8%, and other European markets similarly.  That at least says globally things aren't in free fall.

Unbelievable.  30 Year T Bond @ 0.86%, 10 Year T Bond 0.44%.

This is unprecedented, and really a concern for world wide liquidity. 
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Offline mystery-ak

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The Rats must be ecstatic this morning...
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Offline XenaLee

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If It’s Really A Deep State Coup Against Trump, We’re Down To “Economic Collapse” With A Dash Of Wuhan Coronavirus Thrown In For Good Fun!

Excerpt:

Quote
There’s even an argument that the election itself falls within the Fed’s purview. After all, Trump’s reelection arguably presents a threat to the U.S. and global economy, to the Fed’s independence and its ability to achieve its employment and inflation objectives. If the goal of monetary policy is to achieve the best long-term economic outcome, then Fed officials should consider how their decisions will affect the political outcome in 2020.

In other words, in the context of Dudley’s entire op-ed, it’s basically “crash the economy and blame Trump”.

https://www.sgtreport.com/2020/02/if-its-really-a-deep-state-coup-against-trump-were-down-to-economic-collapse-with-a-dash-of-wuhan-coronavirus-thrown-in-for-good-fun/




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Offline catfish1957

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VIX was @ 50, which is breathtaking, and numbers I haven't seen in probably 10-15 years or so.  Maybe back in '09?

That 1500 drop is probably going being tempered by Circuit Breakers, which may mask true market condtions.  We will see shortly..

60 VIX within the last hour.  Wow, just wow.
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline catfish1957

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Crude has scratched itself back up to $34/bbl. (thank goodness)

DJIA down only 1,200 after being down 2000 near open.



I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline Idiot

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Crude has scratched itself back up to $34/bbl. (thank goodness)

DJIA down only 1,200 after being down 2000 near open.
Day's not over yet.   8888crybaby

Offline catfish1957

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Day's not over yet.   8888crybaby

I'l use the the two biggest domestic integrated oils to kind of show how crazy this particular sector is over sold.

Right now....

Market Cap-

XOM- $185B
CVX-  $155B

This is insane.  The hardware alone in facilities should easily exceed these values.

Divy-  XOM- 7.97%
Divy- CVX- 6.24%

Hate to tell the doomsdayers, but these two companies aren't going away, and will survive.  Are these returns sustainable?  I am not sure.  But think about it....   Even if Divy  or stock price has an additonal 50% correction, and stagnated, you'd still have a return of 3 or 4% on your investment.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2020, 04:03:26 pm by catfish1957 »
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline Fishrrman

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Fishrrman's off-the-wall prediction:
Circuit breakers will keep tripping every day this week.
Market will close around 20,000 (or lower) by Friday.
Once it drops below 20,000, investors may start cautiously buying again.

"Bottom"?
There is no bottom, other than "0"...  ;)

Addendum:
Who here believes this is still going to be an "easy re-election" for Mr. Trump...?
« Last Edit: March 09, 2020, 04:32:22 pm by Fishrrman »

Offline catfish1957

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Fishrrman's off-the-wall prediction:
Circuit breakers will keep tripping every day this week.
Market will close around 20,000 (or lower) by Friday.
Once it drops below 20,000, investors may start cautiously buying again.

"Bottom"?
There is no bottom, other than "0"...  ;)

Addendum:
Who here believes this is still going to be an "easy re-election" for Mr. Trump...?

1929-1932 = 88% Correction
Oct. 1987 = 37% Correction
2000-2002 (NASDAQ (dot.com))= 66% Correction
2008-2009 = 49% Correction
A 20,000 DJIA right now would still be a <30% drop. 

If the hysteria over COVID-19 continues, I'll guess that number is pretty likely.

And as far as Trump's re-election?  With Bernie fading, Trump's chances have dropped considerably.
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Offline Applewood

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2,000 points down for the day. 

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Oil Futures looks really, really bad, and probably the cause of almost all of this.  Current price was ~$28 per BBL.  Contract trading was suspended for several hours, then reopened with the continued free fall.

It's the price war going on between Saudi Arabia and Russia.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline catfish1957

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Oil Futures looks really, really bad, and probably the cause of almost all of this.  Current price was ~$28 per BBL.  Contract trading was suspended for several hours, then reopened with the continued free fall.

It's the price war going on between Saudi Arabia and Russia.

Or more likely a collaborative price fixing scheme between Russia and Saudi's to hurt US Oil production, and US oil independence.

That's even a bigger win-win for those parties.  Lot's easier to prop up state owned interest than capitalist ventures.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2020, 09:23:31 pm by catfish1957 »
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Or more likely a collaborative price fixing scheme between Russia and Saudi's to hurt US Oil production, and US oil independence.

That's even a bigger win-win for those parties.  Lot's easier to prop up state owned interest than capitalist ventures.

That is a very good probability.  It's also possible they are both doing it unilaterally and it's a real price war.  Our guys like @Smokin Joe and others are going to be hurt as collateral damage.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Online Lando Lincoln

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Russia is manipulating our election.
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Russia is manipulating our election.

I smell a Quid Pro Quo!  Impeach Putin!
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline Smokin Joe

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That is a very good probability.  It's also possible they are both doing it unilaterally and it's a real price war.  Our guys like @Smokin Joe and others are going to be hurt as collateral damage.
We'll see how bad it gets. The Saudis and Russians aren't doing themselves any favors by crashing the market, either.

Some development drilling in the better plays may well continue, simply because drilling efficiency is up and it is a buyer's market. The company I am doing work for had just made a CAPEX shift to the Bakken from other plays, so I may not be hurt as badly as some.  :0001:
It was providence that I am working back close to home, because the exploration end is likely to suffer a lot. If all else fails, I have a plan B that will pay most of the bills, and most of this year's property taxes are paid.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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I predict we see some circuit breakers enacted today, for the first time, in what I care to remember.

I have said to many all along , that a 25-30,000 DJIA was crazily over-inflated.  Through this bull run, I have stuck mostly with High Divy Stalwarts, and went big into bonds.(TBonds and Corporates yielding generally 3-6%)  With the interest rates sinking like a rock, that strategy is getting ready to pay off handsomly. Ka-Ching. 

The best advise I ever got in my investing life, was the best time to get in, is when everyone else is racing towards the exits panicking. That served me well in ''87, '00, and '08.  Now retired, I have to temper that exuberance. Man I would love to be a 25 y.o., and about a half mill to invest.

(update:  Fin shows already bringing up that circuit breakers will be enacted at opening.  Hold On....
you have the same philosophy as me.

Only I had excess amounts of large oils as it was accumulated from companies I had worked for.

Am also heavy into dividend growth companies
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Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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There goes our drilling projects for the year.   8888crybaby
In a year or two you might be reminiscing about the 'good old days' of any drilling project.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline Smokin Joe

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In a year or two you might be reminiscing about the 'good old days' of any drilling project.
An observation: I have been through a couple of real hefty boom/bust cycles, and some of the middlin' muddlin' in between. What I have noticed, though is that there are operators who keep drilling, almost no matter what. The markets get depressed, keeping the iron going is cheaper than picking it back up after it has been stacked for a few months, so drillers prices get marginal for the drilling companies. Not a lot of profit, but they stay in the game, keep their equipment up, and keep a core of capable people around to train the next wave. Some operators are positioned to take advantage of those prices, and do so, continuing with development projects, albeit sometimes at a reduced pace, setting up production for the next price recovery. DUC wells will likely increase in number, until completion costs come back down some. That curve will vary from operator to operator, but the biggies keep looking for the 'next Big Thing' and develop known reserves in anticipation of the next high.

Low prices are the cure for low prices, as those who can't afford to develop see those IP curves drop to long term production levels, which are higher in some basins and provinces than others. While the Saudis and even the Russians may pick up some market share in the interim, the same economics apply. They can't afford to keep production up against depletion if they are selling oil for less than it costs them to get it out of the ground. As a result, I think the tiff will be relatively short lived (a few months at most), and OPEC will sort it out.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis