Do guns and drinks mix at home? Court hearing man's case

[Elderberry]

Jackson Hole News by ANDREW WELSH-HUGGINS 2/26/2020

COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) — Having a few too many drinks at home shouldn’t make handling one’s own firearm illegal, according to an Ohio man challenging his arrest on a charge of possessing a weapon while intoxicated.

The Ohio Supreme Court heard arguments in his case Tuesday, with a decision not expected for several weeks.

Attorneys for defendant Fred Weber say the 2018 arrest was unconstitutional because he was in his own home and the weapon was unloaded.

Weber was arrested in southwestern Ohio by sheriff’s deputies after Weber’s wife placed a 4 a.m. 911 call saying her husband had a gun and was drunk. Inside Weber’s house, deputies saw Weber holding an unloaded shotgun in his hand with the barrel pointed down, according to court records. Weber told officers he was drunk, and officers described him as “highly intoxicated,” the records show.

Weber’s attorneys argue that Weber never should have been charged or convicted under current law, since there was no evidence the shotgun was being carried with an intent to use it. Furthermore, the law itself is flawed because it means nearly anyone with a gun at home who also consumes alcohol is breaking the law, Weber’s attorneys argued in a filing with the Ohio Supreme Court last year.

More: https://www.jhnewsandguide.com/jackson_hole_daily/state_and_regional/do-guns-and-drinks-mix-at-home-court-hearing-man/article_c13edb63-7dfe-5672-8bbf-a2e4db94f036.html

[Smokin Joe]

Well, while unadvisable, so are a host of other activities which can be conducted under the influence of alcohol which may present a clear and present danger to others in the vicinity and the user.

Is a law necessary or advisable?

What about someone who has had a couple of drinks and needs to defend themselves?

[EdinVA]

A lot missing from this article.
Were they fighting before hand?
Did he threaten her?

Had he just finished or was he preparing to clean the gun?
Too many unanswered questions....

[240B]

A lot missing from this article.
Were they fighting before hand?
Did he threaten her?

Had he just finished or was he preparing to clean the gun?
Too many unanswered questions....

My thoughts exactly.
Was there ammo within proximity?
It takes all of 2 seconds to load.
Guns and alcohol are a very bad combination.
If the wife called the Cops, she was afraid of something.

[Smokin Joe]

My thoughts exactly.
Was there ammo within proximity?
It takes all of 2 seconds to load.
Guns and alcohol are a very bad combination.
If the wife called the Cops, she was afraid of something.

Not necessarily. Could be she was just pissed off and knew that was a way to get to him.

We don't have enough data to indicate if this was a reasonable act on her part.

But the idea of a law against you having a drink and handling your own firearms in your home is a scary thought. It invites raids, SWATting, and the like. That the nearest ammo was down the hall won't matter if you get shot by some trigger happy officer because you just don't understand what is going on and your judgement and reaction times are slowed by the alcohol.

[EdinVA]

Not necessarily. Could be she was just pissed off and knew that was a way to get to him.

We don't have enough data to indicate if this was a reasonable act on her part.

But the idea of a law against you having a drink and handling your own firearms in your home is a scary thought. It invites raids, SWATting, and the like. That the nearest ammo was down the hall won't matter if you get shot by some trigger happy officer because you just don't understand what is going on and your judgement and reaction times are slowed by the alcohol.

And "highly intoxicated" is an opinion not a fact.  They should have run a breathalyzer or something to confirm.

[Smokin Joe]

And "highly intoxicated" is an opinion not a fact.  They should have run a breathalyzer or something to confirm.

I agree. That's a subjective statement, not quantified.

There is a lot here we just don't know, which makes it difficult to determine if any official action was warranted.

My question remains of whether it is wise to have laws which make it a crime to handle your own firearm in your home after drinking, whether or not it is loaded. I guess a lot would depend on how you acted with it, but the idea of a law (IOW, if you were not threatening anyone, or otherwise breaking other laws) just provides another gray area in which firearm owners can be subjected to police action, which might only be warranted legally in retrospect after taking a breath or blood test for actions in your own home.
Do we want to cross that threshold and be rid of the 4th Amendment entirely?
Do we want to be effectively disarmed in order to comply with the law to have the right to consume alcoholic beverages in our own homes, leaving that home open to invasion or other activity, without defense?

I am not advocating for handling firearms while intoxicated, that's a fool's game. 

But I'm against a law which regulates me and my guns in my home beyond any on the books already governing the commonly accepted criminal use of those firearms in willful acts, because of the inevitable degradation of 4th and 2nd Amendment Rights.

[verga]

Not necessarily. Could be she was just pissed off and knew that was a way to get to him.

We don't have enough data to indicate if this was a reasonable act on her part.

But the idea of a law against you having a drink and handling your own firearms in your home is a scary thought. It invites raids, SWATting, and the like. That the nearest ammo was down the hall won't matter if you get shot by some trigger happy officer because you just don't understand what is going on and your judgement and reaction times are slowed by the alcohol.

Exactly what I first thought.

[verga]

I agree. That's a subjective statement, not quantified.

There is a lot here we just don't know, which makes it difficult to determine if any official action was warranted.

My question remains of whether it is wise to have laws which make it a crime to handle your own firearm in your home after drinking, whether or not it is loaded. I guess a lot would depend on how you acted with it, but the idea of a law (IOW, if you were not threatening anyone, or otherwise breaking other laws) just provides another gray area in which firearm owners can be subjected to police action, which might only be warranted legally in retrospect after taking a breath or blood test for actions in your own home.
Do we want to cross that threshold and be rid of the 4th Amendment entirely?
Do we want to be effectively disarmed in order to comply with the law to have the right to consume alcoholic beverages in our own homes, leaving that home open to invasion or other activity, without defense?

I am not advocating for handling firearms while intoxicated, that's a fool's game. 

But I'm against a law which regulates me and my guns in my home beyond any on the books already governing the commonly accepted criminal use of those firearms in willful acts, because of the inevitable degradation of 4th and 2nd Amendment Rights.

The only rational I can see for this, and it is a stretch (BIG stretch) is if someone is having suicidal thoughts while handling a firearm and drinking, or gets in to a serious beef with a neighbor or relative.

[Smokin Joe]

The only rational I can see for this, and it is a stretch (BIG stretch) is if someone is having suicidal thoughts while handling a firearm and drinking, or gets in to a serious beef with a neighbor or relative.

True, but there are already law against threatening someone with a firearm.

Calling the police on a suicidal party with a gun (with no other parties being held at gunpoint, and while someone seeking help for them may have no other option) is a real tossup.

[240B]

Calling the Cops on a suicidal person with a firearm is very, very, dangerous for everyone involved.
I've read so many stories where the police show up and shoot the suicidal person.
Or the police show up and it becomes a barricade/hostage situation.
I am unsure whether calling the police will make the situation better or worse.
Police involvement is an escalation. Where it will go from there nobody can know.

[Smokin Joe]

Calling the Cops on a suicidal person with a firearm is very, very, dangerous for everyone involved.
I've read so many stories where the police show up and shoot the suicidal person.
Or the police show up and it becomes a barricade/hostage situation.
I am unsure whether calling the police will make the situation better or worse.
Police involvement is an escalation. Where it will go from there nobody can know.

Exactly.

[sneakypete]

I'm with Weber. I have been in bars were EVERYBODY was armed with loaded weapons of one sort or another,and the worse thing that ever happened was one time a friend of mine thought it would be funny to throw a Frag grenade with no blasting cap up on the stage while the band was playing. I do have to admit it was pretty funny,though.

[sneakypete]

If the wife called the Cops, she was afraid of something.

@240B

Or she was wanting an excuse to file for a divorce and be guaranteed child custody and support money.

[roamer_1]

I might point out there's about a gazillion drunk and disorderly redneck boys all the way across Jesusland and back, that have ready access to firearms, and have had that drunken access for all time, and it doesn't seem to be any more than an incidental problem now and then.

[thackney]

I might point out there's about a gazillion drunk and disorderly redneck boys all the way across Jesusland and back, that have ready access to firearms, and have had that drunken access for all time, and it doesn't seem to be any more than an incidental problem now and then.

People are mostly safe, remote area street signs, not so much.

[roamer_1]

People are mostly safe, remote area street signs, not so much.

That's right. 

[240B]

If you are what Police say is 'highly intoxicated' and you are in possession of car keys at/in or near the car, they can charge you with DUI. It doesn't mean you will be convicted, but you can be charged.

Same thing.
If you are what Police say is 'highly intoxicated' and you are in possession of a firearm loaded or not, and a third party has called the Police whether the fear is justified or not will cause the Police to take action. At that point they have to. They can't simply ignore the situation and walk away.

However, there are a thousand ways a law like this could be abused by a spouse or roommate. But you really should not play with weapons while drinking so...I don't know?

[corbe]

   Drinks and knives don't mix at my home either, I speak from experience.