Conservatism Is the Real Resistance

[mystery-ak]

Conservatism Is the Real Resistance

The anti-Trump “resistance” deserves another name: #TheReactionaries. They believe they are always moving, ever pursuing social change, pushing for more reform, more correction, but having conquered so much of American society, they are, in effect, a mighty status quo.

February 12, 2020

If you ask conservatives what they stand for—I mean genuine conservatives, not libertarians who were aligned with conservatives long ago because of a shared anti-Communism even though their social beliefs were wholly liberal—here is what they will say: “God. Family. Country.”

Yes, it’s that simple. Conservatives want a churchgoing public, stable families, and national identity. Limited government, low taxes, free markets, and deregulation are secondary commitments.

Establishment Republicans didn’t understand this, which is why they underestimated in 2015 the appeal of Donald Trump. Trump’s “Build the wall!” slogan hindered the free flow of labor that businesses favored, and the other candidates slammed him. But Republican voters loved it. Finally! A leader who understands that a country without borders is not a country.

When Trump promised that his White House would say “Merry Christmas,” he picked a fight that most Republican politicians preferred to avoid. But voters found it mighty refreshing for one of their leaders to respect the Christian meaning of December 25.

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https://amgreatness.com/2020/02/11/conservatism-is-the-real-resistance/

[TomSea]

I do believe my vote is more to keep the Democrats out rather than just being a big fan of the GOP. Some I definitely am a big fan.

[Bigun]

Conservatism Is the Real Resistance

And insisting that we adhere to the Constitution as written is Conservatism IMHO!

[libertybele]

And insisting that we adhere to the Constitution as written is Conservatism IMHO!

  

[Maj. Bill Martin]

If you ask conservatives what they stand for—I mean genuine conservatives, not libertarians who were aligned with conservatives long ago because of a shared anti-Communism even though their social beliefs were wholly liberal—here is what they will say: “God. Family. Country.”

Yes, it’s that simple. Conservatives want a churchgoing public, stable families, and national identity. Limited government, low taxes, free markets, and deregulation are secondary commitments.

As a libertarian-leaning conservative, I'll just point out that your definition of conservative doesn't really have anything to do with politics at all.  You don't need a government to tell you to go to church or have a stable family. "National identify" may, but it is so broad as to be pretty meaningless.

In terms of what I want out of my government, the three things you listed second are what are important to me.  The other things I can handle on my own, and would prefer the government stay away from.

[truth_seeker]

Ronald Reagan himself.

"“If you analyze it I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism."

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/83332-if-you-analyze-it-i-believe-the-very-heart-and

)I don't need yet aother pontificator, to tell me about 'genuine conservatism' or 'principled conservatism,' every other day.

[Absalom]

As stated, Principled Conservatism has barely peripheral association w/politics, economics and religion; yet the usual suspects endlessly conflate all of these, making rubbish of their assertions.
Rather, it's an amalgam of first principles derived from the Natural Law which defined the
moral order and conduct for Mankind, necessary for it to survive and thrive.
These Principles include:
* The Family unit of Father, Mother, Son and Daughter, is the eternal bedrock of culture/society.
* Custom and continuity define the stability of a society.
* The Principle of Prescription asserts that precedent is superior to current whim.
* The Principle of Prudence asserts that current decisions be measured against future consequences.
* As Men are individual and unequal by their Soul, variety must be encouraged to foster human
   creativity.
* As Man is not a prefectable being, tolerance must be encouraged.
* The Right of private ownership is a catalyst for personal Responsibility.
* Communal voluntarism is superior to destructive collective non-voluntarism.
* The coercive impulse within governance must be repressed for culture/society to thrive.
The are many more of these in the writings of the 18th century English Whigs, most prominently Edmund Burke.

[Absalom]

Ronald Reagan himself.
"“If you analyze it I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism."
)I don't need yet aother pontificator, to tell me about 'genuine conservatism' or 'principled conservatism,' every other day.

---------------------------
Respectfully;
The Principles of Conservatism were articulated by the Ancients among them Sargon, Hammurabi
and most prominently Plato, in his majestic "The Republic."
Libertarianism was birthed late in the Enlightenment by Montesquieu a contrarian to the Liberal radicalism of Rousseau; nevertheless both ideologies were spawned by the Enlightenment and neither has anything to do w/Principled Conservatism, birthed thousands of years earlier.

[txradioguy]

Ronald Reagan himself.

"“If you analyze it I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism."

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/83332-if-you-analyze-it-i-believe-the-very-heart-and

)I don't need yet aother pontificator, to tell me about 'genuine conservatism' or 'principled conservatism,' every other day.

How about you be honest and finish out the quote..from your link

I think conservatism is really a misnomer just as liberalism is a misnomer for the liberals — if we were back in the days of the Revolution, so-called conservatives today would be the Liberals and the liberals would be the Tories.

He was a Libertarian only to the point of believing in smaller government...fiscal responsibility and free enterprise wit minimal governmental regulation.

But with the rest of the Libertarian philosophy he was the opposite...and that was all of the social views.

Ron Paul and his drones always tried to glom on to Reagan using that half quote you posted and the famous pic of Reagan and Dr. Nuts together as proof Reagan was a Libertarian.

But anyone with a brain and a modicum of a grasp on reality knew it wasn't true.

Reagan espoused some Libertarian beliefs...but he wasn't a Libertarian.

[txradioguy]

What people...even some Republicans fail to understand about Conservatism...is that it's not a political philosophy...it's a belief and values system for the people that believe in it.  Progressivism, Populism, Socialism, and the rest of the "ism's" are ideology and ideology can always shift with popular trends or a shift in popularity of superficial things in life.

Conservatism doesn't waver and neither do the people who consider themselves Conservative...and if they do shift in their beliefs it tends to be towards being more conservative than less as they gain life experience and age.

We get told all the time we're too "rigid"...we're "behind the times" or that we're "a dying breed" yet the numbers of Conservatives...those who lean conservative or have Conservative beliefs don't really change from survey to survey over the years. 

Conservatism is the firewall in this country against all out Statism.  And these calls from within the GOP to abandon our Conservative beliefs endangers that firewall.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

How about you be honest and finish out the quote..from your link

I don't see how any of that real changes anything. 

He was a Libertarian only to the point of believing in smaller government...fiscal responsibility and free enterprise with minimal governmental regulation.  But with the rest of the Libertarian philosophy he was the opposite...and that was all of the social views.

What are the "social views" of the libertarian philosophy, and I'm using libertarian with a small "l" as opposed to the capital L that is the Libertarian Party in particular.  As best as I can figure, "social views" are completely irrelevant to libertarianism because it is a principle/philosophy that applies only to government, and not to social views.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

What people...even some Republicans fail to understand about Conservatism...is that it's not a political philosophy...it's a belief and values system for the people that believe in it.  Progressivism, Populism, Socialism, and the rest of the "ism's" are ideology and ideology can always shift with popular trends or a shift in popularity of superficial things in life.

What's with the antipathy towards "ism"? Isn't "conservatism" an "ism"?  Isn't capitalism an "ism"?

Maybe the discussion is more about Burkean conservatism versus the libertarian strain of conservatism that Reagan generally supported.  Because though there is overlap, they aren't quite the same thing.  Because if you're talking the conservatism of someone like Edmund Burke, then that's something a bit different, and does involve social values rather than just our view of government.  It places a lot more emphasis on tradition, stability, values, and "manners".

The Bushes and Romney are Burkean conservatives.  Trump very much is not, and that probably comes closest to explaining the fault line between those self-described conservatives who support him, and those who don't.

[txradioguy]

I don't see how any of that real changes anything. 

It's a more honest assessment of what Reagan was trying to say.

What are the "social views" of the libertarian philosophy, and I'm using libertarian with a small "l" as opposed to the capital L that is the Libertarian Party in particular).  As best as I can figure, "social views" are completely irrelevant to libertarianism because it is a principle/philosophy that applies only to government, and not to social views.

This is where the Conservatives and the Libertarians part ways on social issues:

Oppose the death penalty. (May 2016)
Support restitution; and maintain constitutional safeguards. (Nov 2014)
Three Strikes approach is illusory & dangerous. (Nov 2000)
Omnibus Crime Bill, including death penalty, has failed. (Nov 2000)
Encourage private efforts to fight crime. (Jul 2000)
Allow drugs, alcohol, prostitution, gambling, and suicide. (Jul 2000)
Strengthen, not reduce, the rights of the accused. (Jul 2000)
Hate crimes are used to punish blacks. (Feb 2000)

De-fund war on drugs, and end violent drug cartels. (Jan 2015)
Repeal all drug laws creating “crimes” without victims. (May 2008)
The war on drugs threatens individual liberties. (Jul 2000)

No gender identity restrictions on child custody or adoption. (May 2016)

Eliminate all restrictions on immigration. (Jul 2000)

https://www.ontheissues.org/Libertarian_Party.htm

Those are the big social issues where the Libertarian party sounds more like the Progressives in the Democrat party today.  Then there's the ideological split when it comes to military and foreign policy as well.  And we won't even get into some of the more radical ideas about finance like returning tot he Gold Standard.

[txradioguy]

The Bushes and Romney are Burkean conservatives.  Trump very much is not, and that probably comes closest to explaining the fault line between those self-described conservatives who support him, and those who don't.

I've never thought of either President Bush or Senator Romney as Conservative.  They are mainline establishment "Rockerfeller Republicans". 

Trump isn't a Conservative...he's not a Libertarian...he's a Populist.

[truth_seeker]

My number one conservative principle, is winning.

If you fail with that, all the volumes of words and claims, and debates are not very much good.

If Trump (or another) fall short of one hundred percent perfect "conservatism," I readily accept that, knowing the alternative is not good.

If yourr one hundred percent  pure conservative can't get nominated, and elected, what good is he?

Romney, Kasich, Weld, Sanford, Amash, Flake, Kristol, etc.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

It's a more honest assessment of what Reagan was trying to say.

This is where the Conservatives and the Libertarians part ways on social issues:

Oppose the death penalty. (May 2016)
Support restitution; and maintain constitutional safeguards. (Nov 2014)
Three Strikes approach is illusory & dangerous. (Nov 2000)
Omnibus Crime Bill, including death penalty, has failed. (Nov 2000)
Encourage private efforts to fight crime. (Jul 2000)
Allow drugs, alcohol, prostitution, gambling, and suicide. (Jul 2000)
Strengthen, not reduce, the rights of the accused. (Jul 2000)
Hate crimes are used to punish blacks. (Feb 2000)

De-fund war on drugs, and end violent drug cartels. (Jan 2015)
Repeal all drug laws creating “crimes” without victims. (May 2008)
The war on drugs threatens individual liberties. (Jul 2000)

No gender identity restrictions on child custody or adoption. (May 2016)

Eliminate all restrictions on immigration. (Jul 2000)

https://www.ontheissues.org/Libertarian_Party.htm

Those are the big social issues where the Libertarian party sounds more like the Progressives in the Democrat party today.  Then there's the ideological split when it comes to military and foreign policy as well.  And we won't even get into some of the more radical ideas about finance like returning tot he Gold Standard.

You are citing to the Libertarian Party, which is not the same thing as being libertarian.  It's like looking at the Democratic Party as the authority for what constitutes democracy.

[txradioguy]

My number one conservative principle, is winning.

Then you don't understand what conservative principles are if that's your #1 "principle".

As Rush is apt to say "Conservatism wins every time it's tried."  The last time Conservatism and Conservative beliefs were front and center we got the best president of the modern era in Ronald Reagan.

Conservatism as the center piece of the GOP hasn't been front and center since and we've gotten a collection of failed candidates and Moderates/RINO's.

If Trump (or another) fall short of one hundred percent perfect "conservatism," I readily accept that, knowing the alternative is not good.

Trump is a Populist.  He's not even 50% Conservative. And despite all of that if he came out tomorrow and declared he was returning to his NY (Liberal) Values you'd still accept him and try and justify why the rest of us were wrong for being upset at the announcement.

If yourr one hundred percent  pure conservative can't get nominated, and elected, what good is he?

Channel the ghost of Ronal Reagan and ask him that question.  Once he stopped laughing at you he'd probably give you the answer you don't want to hear.

Romney, Kasich, Weld, Sanford, Amash, Flake, Kristol, etc.

All Republican...none of them Conservative.  All Big Government Republicans.

[txradioguy]

You are citing to the Libertarian Party, which is not the same thing as being libertarian.

That sounds an awful lot like hair splitting.

It's like looking at the Democratic Party as the authority for what constitutes democracy.

No it's not.  Again you're hair splitting in an attempt to distance yourself from the more Liberal/Progressive aspects of your party.

[skeeter]

While we all navel gaze constitutionalists are being named to the bench, regulations are being reduced, the rule of law re established, the rat party disassembled, etc etc.

Who cares about it which definition is more accurate?

[txradioguy]

While we all navel gaze constitutionalists are being named to the bench, regulations are being reduced, the rule of law re established, the rat party disassembled, etc etc.

We won't know how much of the Constitution these judges being appointed will adhere to until we start getting rulings from them.  Just because they say they are Constitutionalists...doesn't mean they are.  We've been burned on that before.

And even Gorsuch has voted with the Liberal justices on the SCOTUS bench since he's ben there.

Who cares about it which definition is more accurate?

It means a lot when you stop and think about it.

[libertybele]

I've never thought of either President Bush or Senator Romney as Conservative.  They are mainline establishment "Rockerfeller Republicans". 

Trump isn't a Conservative...he's not a Libertarian...he's a Populist.

Interesting assessment that you have of Trump.  I have used this website (link below) in the past; not necessarily in agreement, but to see what candidates have stated where they stand on specific issues -- and quotes/votes/actions to back up where they stand.  They have compiled a very broad assessment of Trump -- larger than I have ever seen on anyone and he has been determined to be a "Hard Core Conservative" based on the issues that they use to judge one's political philosophy.

He is a populist in the sense that he appeals to the average Joe and is seen as anti-establishment but I would say that the majority of his base leans more conservative than they do to the center or to the left.

https://www.ontheissues.org/donald_trump.htm

[txradioguy]

Interesting assessment that you have of Trump.  I have used this website (link below) in the past; not necessarily in agreement, but to see what candidates have stated where they stand on specific issues -- and quotes/votes/actions to back up where they stand.  They have compiled a very broad assessment of Trump -- larger than I have ever seen on anyone and he has been determined to be a "Hard Core Conservative" based on the issues that they use to judge one's political philosophy.

He is a populist in the sense that he appeals to the average Joe and is seen as anti-establishment but I would say that the majority of his base leans more conservative than they do to the center or to the left.

https://www.ontheissues.org/donald_trump.htm

He said what he knew would get a lot of people fired up to vote and that's it.  He does his own version of class warfare and it appeals to a certain segment of the population.

That's the very definition of populism.

There's a myriad of things he's done that we've all hashed out here before that prove he's marginal at best on any Conservative values he may hold.

[libertybele]

He said what he knew would get a lot of people fired up to vote and that's it.  He does his own version of class warfare and it appeals to a certain segment of the population.

That's the very definition of populism.

There's a myriad of things he's done that we've all hashed out here before that prove he's marginal at best on any Conservative values he may hold.

Based on the issues of abortion, the second amendment, the EPA, pathway to citizenship, the military, green energy and American exceptionalism, I'd say he has proven to lean conservative.

[txradioguy]

Based on the issues of abortion,

It's still federally funded

the second amendment,

Bump stock ban ring a bell?  Support for Red Flag Laws and universal background checks

the EPA,

He hasn't done squat with the EPA.  Hasnt' even talked about (rightfully) doing away with it.

pathway to citizenship,

That's a sop to the left.

the military,

Except for one decent pay raise this year what has he done for us?

green energy

What about it?

and American exceptionalism,

that has nothing to do with Conservatism.

I'd say he has proven to lean conservative.

Trade tariffs that are to the left of Bernie Sanders...Federal Family Leave Act (guaranteed paid leave)...the national debt over 21 trillion dollars now thanks to the budgets he signed...Current U-6 Unemployment Rate (the true measure of unemployment in the U.S.) is 7.7% up from 6.7%...his repeated calls for a $1 Trillion dollar infrastructure plan...and here's one I bet you didn't hear about...he suspended the federal debt ceiling and funding the government for three months in Hurricane Harvey aid package.


That's not even close to being someone who will "lean conservative".

[truth_seeker]

Where would I find the agreed upon definition, of "True Conservatism in America?"

Haamurabi? Mesopotamia?

Ancient Greece?

Magna Carta?

  The Enlightenment?

Under which of Reagan's  "Principles," woul we position the 1986 Amnesty?

And the huge Deficits?

As a soldier, certainly you would recognize the vital importance of winning, as per Reagan's push to end the Cold War, fortunately by WINNING it.