Author Topic: Impeachment witness Alexander Vindman escorted from White House [wow]  (Read 2080 times)

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Online Bigun

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Re: Impeachment witness Alexander Vindman escorted from White House [wow]
« Reply #125 on: February 10, 2020, 01:22:35 PM »
The politicization of the officer ranks started decades ago.  It's always been a system where once you got to a certain rank you needed a benefactor to help you attain the next rank...and at the Flag (General Officer) level that usually involves a Senator willing to nominate you for your star.  And in a lot of cases there's a lot of quid pro quo going on there.

Most Lt. Colonel's know coming out of the Command and General Staff College if they are going to wind up being a 30 year Colonel O-6 or if they are going to make it to the General Officer rank...and most of it has to do with politics.

It's the same with the Sergeant Major rank on the enlisted side...it's all politics.  Which is why I never wanted to make it above E-8 Master Sergeant.

 :3:

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Re: Impeachment witness Alexander Vindman escorted from White House [wow]
« Reply #126 on: February 10, 2020, 01:25:09 PM »
Perhaps the Navy still values its integrity @EdinVA.


Unfortunately...the Navy and the USAF have been the two branches to openly embrace political correctness and social justice in their ranks...with the Coasties a close 3rd.  And they are paying a price for it now.  The Army and the Marines have pushed back to a certain extent but I'm afraid they are going to give in too.

What does PC have to do with integrity you ask?  Political correctness social/environmental justice and all the baggage that comes along with it goes against what we in the military are supposed to stand for uphold defend and believe in.

IMHO if you buy into the crap the Progressive left is pushing...if their dogma becomes policy...then the integrity of the force has been compromised.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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Online Bigun

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Re: Impeachment witness Alexander Vindman escorted from White House [wow]
« Reply #127 on: February 10, 2020, 01:29:16 PM »
Unfortunately...the Navy and the USAF have been the two branches to openly embrace political correctness and social justice in their ranks...with the Coasties a close 3rd.  And they are paying a price for it now.  The Army and the Marines have pushed back to a certain extent but I'm afraid they are going to give in too.

What does PC have to do with integrity you ask?  Political correctness social/environmental justice and all the baggage that comes along with it goes against what we in the military are supposed to stand for uphold defend and believe in.

IMHO if you buy into the crap the Progressive left is pushing...if their dogma becomes policy...then the integrity of the force has been compromised.

So the only reason the guy @EdinVA mentioned above was prosecuted is that he was just an enlisted puke and would make a fine example.

Online EdinVA

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Re: Impeachment witness Alexander Vindman escorted from White House [wow]
« Reply #128 on: February 10, 2020, 01:35:54 PM »
So the only reason the guy @EdinVA mentioned above was prosecuted is that he was just an enlisted puke and would make a fine example.

Quote
US ​​Navy sailor jailed for taking photos of classified areas of nuclear submarine

A US Navy sailor was sentenced on Friday to a year in prison for taking photos of classified areas inside a nuclear attack submarine while it was in port in Connecticut.
Kristian Saucier, of Arlington, Vermont, appeared in federal court in Bridgeport, where a judge also ordered him to serve six months of home confinement with electronic monitoring during a three-year period of supervised release after the prison time. He pleaded guilty in May to unauthorized detention of defense information and had faced five to six years in prison under federal sentencing guidelines.
Saucier admitted to taking six photos of classified areas inside the USS Alexandria in 2009 when it was in Groton and he was a 22-year-old machinist mate on the submarine. The photos showed the nuclear reactor compartment, the auxiliary steam propulsion panel and the maneuvering compartment, prosecutors said.
Saucier took the photos knowing they were classified, but did so only to be able to show his family and future children what he did while he was in the Navy, his lawyers said. He denied sharing the photos with any unauthorized recipient.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/aug/20/us-navy-sailor-jailed-for-taking-photos-of-classified-areas-of-nuclear-submarine

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Re: Impeachment witness Alexander Vindman escorted from White House [wow]
« Reply #129 on: February 10, 2020, 01:39:56 PM »
So the only reason the guy @EdinVA mentioned above was prosecuted is that he was just an enlisted puke and would make a fine example.

No he legit broke the law and he knew he broke the law in taking those photographs.  Just the fact that he took the photos in a classified area of a classified subject means his camera became a classified object and couldn't be used for regular happy snaps anymore.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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Online Bigun

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Re: Impeachment witness Alexander Vindman escorted from White House [wow]
« Reply #130 on: February 10, 2020, 01:43:34 PM »
No he legit broke the law and he knew he broke the law in taking those photographs.  Just the fact that he took the photos in a classified area of a classified subject means his camera became a classified object and couldn't be used for regular happy snaps anymore.

Yeah! I am very familiar. Which is why I have very few pictures of me in Vietnam.  I contend that the Vindmans damned well knew that what they were doing was illegal as well! Not that it matters whether or not they did.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2020, 01:45:53 PM by Bigun »

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Re: Impeachment witness Alexander Vindman escorted from White House [wow]
« Reply #131 on: February 10, 2020, 01:48:06 PM »
Yeah! I am very familiar. Which is why I have very few pictures of me in Vietnam.  I contend that the Vindmans damned well knew that what they were doing was illegal as well! Not that it matters whether or not they did.

But at the end of the day it comes down to what they (Vindman Brothers) knew and what the prosecution at a Courts Martial can actually prove.  He said she said type of evidence won't fly in court.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Online Bigun

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Re: Impeachment witness Alexander Vindman escorted from White House [wow]
« Reply #132 on: February 10, 2020, 02:00:28 PM »
But at the end of the day it comes down to what they (Vindman Brothers) knew and what the prosecution at a Courts Martial can actually prove.  He said she said type of evidence won't fly in court.

Yes!  I am fully aware of that as well.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Impeachment witness Alexander Vindman escorted from White House [wow]
« Reply #133 on: February 10, 2020, 02:15:30 PM »
And they threw that kid in the navy in prison for taking a picture to show his mother what he was doing.... No one is above the law... right

@EdinVA

I had forgotten all about him.

I sure hope his lawyers read about this case and use it as a tool to get that sailor released.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Impeachment witness Alexander Vindman escorted from White House [wow]
« Reply #134 on: February 10, 2020, 02:18:41 PM »
Perhaps the Navy still values its integrity @EdinVA.

When I was in the military I had a Top Secret CRYPTO clearance which was, at the time, the highest one you could get.  I and other people around me were frequently reminded about the pain we would endure if we violated that trust intentionally or not. Didn't make a damned bit of difference.

@Bigun

Well,there were "One Time Code Word" clearances for one-time operations,but I am guessing most people that received them already has TS clearances.

BTW,I had a TS/Crypto,too.
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Online Bigun

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Re: Impeachment witness Alexander Vindman escorted from White House [wow]
« Reply #135 on: February 10, 2020, 02:26:54 PM »
@Bigun

Well,there were "One Time Code Word" clearances for one-time operations,but I am guessing most people that received them already has TS clearances.

BTW,I had a TS/Crypto,too.

Working where you worked would have required that @sneakypete

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Impeachment witness Alexander Vindman escorted from White House [wow]
« Reply #136 on: February 10, 2020, 03:09:19 PM »
The politicization of the officer ranks started decades ago.  It's always been a system where once you got to a certain rank you needed a benefactor to help you attain the next rank...and at the Flag (General Officer) level that usually involves a Senator willing to nominate you for your star.  And in a lot of cases there's a lot of quid pro quo going on there.

Most Lt. Colonel's know coming out of the Command and General Staff College if they are going to wind up being a 30 year Colonel O-6 or if they are going to make it to the General Officer rank...and most of it has to do with politics.


I PERSONALLY know of two Reserve Officers from Mass that were brought back on active duty SPECIFICALLY to they could command SF a SF company in one case (he was a LTC when brought back on AD,which made him a company commander),and in the other case he was a Bird Colonel  that had been in the reserves since the end of the Korean War,and he was brought back on AD SPECIFICALLY to command the 5th SF Group in VN. His first year he was given the command of the 1st SFG on Okinawa,and when he arrived on the island to take command,he only had 5 jumps under his belt. That's right,he was a graduate of the special "Senior Officers Jump School" at Ft.Benning. They sent him to command the 1st so he could learn about SF before he went to VN and started giving press conferences to the network news.

I guess I should mention that he was retired from the Boston,Mass PD,and was a senior officer there. I guess he was bored by retirement,so decided to go "play soldier" to spice his life up. There was always the suspicion he had political influence working in the background because nobody had every heard of a non-SF officer coming in and taking command of what was one of the most strategically important SF Groups in the US Army at that time. Can you say "Kennedy Family"? 

I was there when he arrived,and that's how I know this. Evidentially he decided he didn't look enough like a "hardened SF Colonel" wearing "cherry jumper wings",so he rectified (I try to use some form of the word "rectum" every time I write or talk about him) this by writing his own name on every "water jump" the 1st group made.

We normally jumped on Yomitan Airport,and it was a scary place to jump. 12 second DZ with x00,000 high voltage NSA power lines and the army attack dog training center on one end,along with a cliff a couple of hundred feet high with a drop off into the ocean,piles of coral rocks at the end of the potato fields the Okinawan farmers dug up to plant their potatoes,several hangers and other buildings,and at times,small private planes trying to take off. I was there on one jump working with the ground crew,and there were dozens of people hospitalized from that one jump due to "meeting" one of those obstacles. Including the Group Chaplin,who was blown into a hanger wall and broke his neck.

Colonel Kelley COULD have jumped on Yamitan,but chose to make water jumps,instead. Water jumps were normally restricted to only the guys from the 1st that came back wounded from a TDY tour in VN because they were too crippled up to land on Yomitan.

We even had our own PT Boat  for the water jumps,crewed by a SF Crew that normally ran the Scuba Committee. It was rumored to be the private PT boat owned by JFK when he was president,but had somehow mysteriously disappeared from the dock after his death. Anyhow,it was our PT boat,and we had a regular crew of SF guys that operated and maintained it. On water jumps,that crew was supplemented by a couple of guys with sniper rifles to shoot any of the local sharks that got too close to the guys in the water.

So,Colonel Kelly goes out on every water jump that happens so he can get his Master Blaster Jump Wings to wear and look like a seasoned SF soldier when in front of the cameras giving briefings to reporters.

He's on one of these water jumps one day when the wind is probably blowing a little higher than regulations call for (don't go to SF if you don't have a sense of humor about these things),and here comes Kommando Kelley,jumping a MC-1 maneuverable parachute,which he had never seen or even heard about before because only SF jumped them,and because of the sharks in the water and all,he wanted to land as close to the PT boat as possible,so he is pulling a full forward slip with the wind behind him,and he slams right into the side of the PT boat,breaking a leg in the process.

And THAT,my friends is how our Courageous Colonel Kelley came to be known as "Splash Kelley".

The other guy was also retired Army Reserve from Boston,and he was a bigger asshat than Splash. I met him in the 90's while working as an advisor to SFTG. We would have came to blows if I hadn't been tackled on my way to get close to him,and that ended my advisory role.  SOB honestly thought he could talk trash to me because I was a civilian contractor and he was a LTC.

He was later sent to Thailand to command 46 Company of the 1st to get him away from Bragg after breaking into the off-base house of a MSG that worked under him that had been arrested for drunk driving,and confiscating/stealing all the MSG's personally-owned rifles and handguns,along with the ammunition,and dumping them in Mott Lake. Being from Boston,and most likely a cop there,I can't remember for sure,he HATED guns and didn't even think career infantry soldiers should be allowed to any that weren't army issue and locked up on base. In FACT,he put the word out when he first got to Bragg that ANY soldier under his command that was caught with a privately owned handgun on his person or in his private vehicle,would be court-marshaled. EVEN if they have a state CCW weapons permit.

 The word I got was the court-martial of the MSG was dropped and he was allowed to instantly retire at full pay as a MSG in return for him dropping the breaking and entering and felony theft charges against the LTC.

 He was then transferred to Thailand as  LTC company commander,and came back as a full Colonel,and assigned to take over a SF Group. I have no idea how long he lasted because I was out of the system  by then. Can't even remember his name for certain. I hate to mention the name I THINK it was because I might be slandering an innocent man.

 Can you even BEGIN to imagine how much political pull it must have taken for him to be able to pull that off,and still remain in the army and get promoted to full Colonel later?

 I have no doubt he was quickly promoted to 1 star and transferred to the Pentagram to get him the hell out of Bragg.

Quote
It's the same with the Sergeant Major rank on the enlisted side...it's all politics.


 I don't know about the regular army,or even the SF army of today,but back in the 60's there were no finer men serving in uniform anywhere than SF SGM's. We had them for company 1st Sergeants,and if you needed something,they knew how to make it happen. I have nothing negative,or even slightly negative to say about any SF SGM I ever knew,and I knew more than a few that I was proud to call "friend".

« Last Edit: February 10, 2020, 03:13:07 PM by sneakypete »
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Impeachment witness Alexander Vindman escorted from White House [wow]
« Reply #137 on: February 10, 2020, 03:46:47 PM »
Working where you worked would have required that @sneakypete

@Bigun

True. It's no big deal when everybody you know has one.
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Re: Impeachment witness Alexander Vindman escorted from White House [wow]
« Reply #138 on: February 10, 2020, 03:52:49 PM »
I would like to learn what charges would be used for LTC Alex Vindman?

The overall set-up, whereby AD members are detailed to the NSC and further assigned to the WH, seems normal practice.

I think the larger issue, is that career government employees both

a) Tend to be democrats (often claiming to be independent or republican)

b) Enjoy huge protections, like "Whistleblower laws." 

I doubt a conspiracy can or will be proved.

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1960-61 Eisenhower warns about the "Military-Industrial Complex.

Nevertheless we have been in continual wars, CIA/FBI missed most threats.

Fall of USSR, 9-11-2001.

Snowden and Assange, risked their lives, to reveal damaging inside stuff.

Who really runs America?

Generals retire, go to work for military contractors and/or for war think tanks/lobbyists.

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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Impeachment witness Alexander Vindman escorted from White House [wow]
« Reply #139 on: February 10, 2020, 06:32:27 PM »
I would like to learn what charges would be used for LTC Alex Vindman?

 

@truth_seeker 

I may very well be wrong because I am doing  nothing but GUESSING,but my best guess is WH and NSA documents have their
own security classification,and if you don't have the "WH" or "NSC" tag attached to your security clearance rating,you
are breaking the law by having it and the person that gave you access to it is also committing a felony.

As for the twins,at a MINIUMUM both can be court-martialed for "Conduct unbecoming an Officer in the US Army",which covers
everything from letting the grass in your on-base housing getting to high,to assassinating a President. It is truely a "One
Size Fits All" charge.

As a serving solddier,sailor,airman,or Marine,you have NO Constitutional Rights. You only have the rights granted to you under the
Universal Code of Military Justice.

Not sure about the US Coast Guard,but they probably come under the USCMJ also.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2020, 06:35:57 PM by sneakypete »
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Online EdinVA

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Re: Impeachment witness Alexander Vindman escorted from White House [wow]
« Reply #140 on: February 10, 2020, 07:31:38 PM »
@truth_seeker 

I may very well be wrong because I am doing  nothing but GUESSING,but my best guess is WH and NSA documents have their
own security classification,and if you don't have the "WH" or "NSC" tag attached to your security clearance rating,you
are breaking the law by having it and the person that gave you access to it is also committing a felony.

As for the twins,at a MINIUMUM both can be court-martialed for "Conduct unbecoming an Officer in the US Army",which covers
everything from letting the grass in your on-base housing getting to high,to assassinating a President. It is truely a "One
Size Fits All" charge.

As a serving solddier,sailor,airman,or Marine,you have NO Constitutional Rights. You only have the rights granted to you under the
Universal Code of Military Justice.

Not sure about the US Coast Guard,but they probably come under the USCMJ also.
I would think he/they could be charged with conspiracy also.. more than 1 person involved..

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Impeachment witness Alexander Vindman escorted from White House [wow]
« Reply #141 on: February 10, 2020, 08:48:19 PM »
I would think he/they could be charged with conspiracy also.. more than 1 person involved..

@EdinVA

 True,but in the meantime,the old tried and true,"Conduct unbecoming a soldier" charge can keep his butt parked in a military
prison/stockade until a military DA has found enough evidence to put him on trial for more serious charges.

And if he goes to Leavenworth,look for him to be taken MUCH more seriously as a prisoner that needs individual attention than the
typical prisoner they get as guests there.

I am going to go out on a limb and guess that Vinman ain't going to enjoy being a Private at Leavenworth.
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Online EdinVA

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Re: Impeachment witness Alexander Vindman escorted from White House [wow]
« Reply #142 on: February 10, 2020, 09:03:19 PM »
@EdinVA

 True,but in the meantime,the old tried and true,"Conduct unbecoming a soldier" charge can keep his butt parked in a military
prison/stockade until a military DA has found enough evidence to put him on trial for more serious charges.

And if he goes to Leavenworth,look for him to be taken MUCH more seriously as a prisoner that needs individual attention than the
typical prisoner they get as guests there.

I am going to go out on a limb and guess that Vinman ain't going to enjoy being a Private at Leavenworth.
@sneakypete
I hope so.. Not because I want revenge but if the "deep staters" don't ever pay a price then it will never stop.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Impeachment witness Alexander Vindman escorted from White House [wow]
« Reply #143 on: February 10, 2020, 09:14:29 PM »
@sneakypete
I hope so.. Not because I want revenge but if the "deep staters" don't ever pay a price then it will never stop.

@EdinVA

  EXACTLY! A message MUST be sent that the days of military people violating their oaths to suck up to politicians are OVER,and
that anyone caught will now be hammered.

Political scum lying,cheating and stealing is one thing. The military MUST maintain higher standards.

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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Impeachment witness Alexander Vindman escorted from White House [wow]
« Reply #144 on: February 10, 2020, 09:43:30 PM »
@EdinVA

  EXACTLY! A message MUST be sent that the days of military people violating their oaths to suck up to politicians are OVER,and
that anyone caught will now be hammered.

Political scum lying,cheating and stealing is one thing. The military MUST maintain higher standards.
Not just military people.
 Ignoring or just blatantly breaking the law has become sport for those who think they do not have to go by the rules the rest of us do.

Enforce the appropriate laws. Let the punishment fit the crime.
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Re: Impeachment witness Alexander Vindman escorted from White House [wow]
« Reply #146 on: February 11, 2020, 05:37:52 PM »
But at the end of the day it comes down to what they (Vindman Brothers) knew and what the prosecution at a Courts Martial can actually prove.  He said she said type of evidence won't fly in court.

Unlike in Schifftyroo's marsupial hearings, to which Vindman lent support.
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