Author Topic: Impeachment witness Alexander Vindman escorted from White House [wow]  (Read 2090 times)

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Online catfish1957

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Re: Impeachment witness Alexander Vindman escorted from White House [wow]
« Reply #100 on: February 09, 2020, 02:33:25 PM »
@Bigun

Well,Lady Lindsey was (is still?) a JAG officer in the Air Force,so I suspect he is more of an authority on this type of thing than any of us.

Besides,I really don't think a President needs permission,or even a reason other than "I wanna...." to fire anyone on his staff. They ALL "serve at the pleasure of the President"

You know, where I worked insubordination was grounds for dismissal.  I would venture the same for the other Fortune 499 companies.

What is the dang deal here?
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Re: Impeachment witness Alexander Vindman escorted from White House [wow]
« Reply #101 on: February 09, 2020, 03:11:58 PM »
You know, where I worked insubordination was grounds for dismissal.  I would venture the same for the other Fortune 499 companies.

What is the dang deal here?

@catfish1957

Somebody wants to play the "victim game". When it's all they have,that is always where the left goes.
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Online skeeter

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Re: Impeachment witness Alexander Vindman escorted from White House [wow]
« Reply #102 on: February 09, 2020, 03:15:37 PM »
@catfish1957

Somebody wants to play the "victim game". When it's all they have,that is always where the left goes.

Leftist FB 'friends' of mine were suffering the vapors upon hearing Vindman was walked out. You'd think he was Nathan Hale.

Of course they couldn't tell you a damn thing about him, other than he was a witness for the House prosecution of Orange Man Bad.

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Re: Impeachment witness Alexander Vindman escorted from White House [wow]
« Reply #103 on: February 09, 2020, 03:33:29 PM »
Leftist FB 'friends' of mine were suffering the vapors upon hearing Vindman was walked out. You'd think he was Nathan Hale.

Of course they couldn't tell you a damn thing about him, other than he was a witness for the House prosecution of Orange Man Bad.

That's not what I am trying to say...I don't want Trump dirtying is hands by taking out the trash..my suggestion was let someone else do it.
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Online EdinVA

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Re: Impeachment witness Alexander Vindman escorted from White House [wow]
« Reply #104 on: February 09, 2020, 03:47:13 PM »
That's not what I am trying to say...I don't want Trump dirtying is hands by taking out the trash..my suggestion was let someone else do it.
A real leader is the shield for his team so I suspect that someone else is "taking out the trash" but Trump is taking the heat for them.

Offline DCPatriot

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Re: Impeachment witness Alexander Vindman escorted from White House [wow]
« Reply #105 on: February 09, 2020, 03:52:07 PM »
I hope they break his rank to Prv 1st Class and immediately dishonorably discharge him.

Let some future Commie American POTUS grant him a pardon.
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Impeachment witness Alexander Vindman escorted from White House [wow]
« Reply #106 on: February 09, 2020, 03:53:48 PM »
I hope they break his rank to Prv 1st Class and immediately dishonorably discharge him.

Let some future Commie American POTUS grant him a pardon.

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Re: Impeachment witness Alexander Vindman escorted from White House [wow]
« Reply #107 on: February 09, 2020, 05:03:26 PM »
@Bigun

Well,Lady Lindsey was (is still?) a JAG officer in the Air Force,so I suspect he is more of an authority on this type of thing than any of us.

Besides,I really don't think a President needs permission,or even a reason other than "I wanna...." to fire anyone on his staff. They ALL "serve at the pleasure of the President"

That is exactly right @sneakypete but it doesn't have anything to do with what I was talking about in what you quoted.

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Re: Impeachment witness Alexander Vindman escorted from White House [wow]
« Reply #108 on: February 09, 2020, 05:05:41 PM »
That's not what I am trying to say...I don't want Trump dirtying is hands by taking out the trash..my suggestion was let someone else do it.

Someone else DID do it @mystery-ak His name is Tim Morrison and he did it under oath before a congressional committee.

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Re: Impeachment witness Alexander Vindman escorted from White House [wow]
« Reply #109 on: February 10, 2020, 08:56:56 AM »
 Just because we don't see the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff on television condemning Vindman, it doesn't mean that they are in approval of the coup.

Under questioning by John Ratcliffe, you can read about him giving the Ukrainians instruction to go against the CiC’s stated desires here: https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2019/11/09/the-coup-against-a-sitting-u-s-president-became-official-on-october-29th-2019/

Pay close attention to the parts highlighted for emphasis by Veteran and Career LEO, Roscoe B. Davis. His Tweet thread is here: https://twitter.com/RoscoeBDavis1/status/1192918037864861698

As you read through Vindman's testimony (especially as questioned by Representative John Ratcliffe), it is clear that he was not only disobeying implied orders from the Commander in Chief, but he was also directing and inciting foreign (Ukrainian) actors to also decline to cooperate with the stated desires of the Commander in Chief.

From Article 92 link above:



Quote
U.S. Code § 892. Art. 92. Failure to obey order or regulation

Any person subject to this chapter who—
(1) violates or fails to obey any lawful general order or regulation;
(2) having knowledge of any other lawful order issued by a member of the armed forces, which it is his duty to obey, fails to obey the order; or
(3) is derelict in the performance of his duties;
shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.



From Article 88 link above:


Quote
U.S. Code § 888. Art. 88. Contempt toward officials

Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Homeland Security, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.




« Last Edit: February 10, 2020, 08:59:57 AM by Bigun »

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Re: Impeachment witness Alexander Vindman escorted from White House [wow]
« Reply #110 on: February 10, 2020, 10:27:29 AM »
I hope they break his rank to Prv 1st Class and immediately dishonorably discharge him.

Let some future Commie American POTUS grant him a pardon.

It's nice to dream about...but it's not gonna happen that way.
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Re: Impeachment witness Alexander Vindman escorted from White House [wow]
« Reply #111 on: February 10, 2020, 10:34:50 AM »
Just because we don't see the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff on television condemning Vindman, it doesn't mean that they are in approval of the coup.

Under questioning by John Ratcliffe, you can read about him giving the Ukrainians instruction to go against the CiC’s stated desires here: https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2019/11/09/the-coup-against-a-sitting-u-s-president-became-official-on-october-29th-2019/

Pay close attention to the parts highlighted for emphasis by Veteran and Career LEO, Roscoe B. Davis. His Tweet thread is here: https://twitter.com/RoscoeBDavis1/status/1192918037864861698

As you read through Vindman's testimony (especially as questioned by Representative John Ratcliffe), it is clear that he was not only disobeying implied orders from the Commander in Chief, but he was also directing and inciting foreign (Ukrainian) actors to also decline to cooperate with the stated desires of the Commander in Chief.

From Article 92 link above:





From Article 88 link above:

That's all well and good IF you can get a JAG or someone in the Pentagon that he now works for to start an Article 32 investigation into what went down.

And then the convening authority would have to determine if the words were truly contemptuous...because that's very subjective.

Had Vindman while in uniform refereed to the President as a "small handed Orange buffoon" then it's very clear the words were an Article 88 violation.

Whatever he said in his closed door testimony is speculation at this point as is whether he did what is claimed with regards to the Ukrainian officials.

There is no smoking gun to start a Courts Martial  proceeding against him or his brother as much as people want to play armchair general and say that there is.

And quite frankly I don't think SecDef or SecArmy will let it happen regardless. 

He's going to quietly retire in about 6 months...so will his brother...they'll get their retirement and sign on as some kind of paid military/defense/intelligence analyst with a TV network and bash Trump the military...the DoD and the rest of the folks Progressives hate and the rest will be history.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Online Bigun

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Re: Impeachment witness Alexander Vindman escorted from White House [wow]
« Reply #112 on: February 10, 2020, 11:13:14 AM »
That's all well and good IF you can get a JAG or someone in the Pentagon that he now works for to start an Article 32 investigation into what went down.

And then the convening authority would have to determine if the words were truly contemptuous...because that's very subjective.

Had Vindman while in uniform refereed to the President as a "small handed Orange buffoon" then it's very clear the words were an Article 88 violation.

Whatever he said in his closed door testimony is speculation at this point as is whether he did what is claimed with regards to the Ukrainian officials.

There is no smoking gun to start a Courts Martial  proceeding against him or his brother as much as people want to play armchair general and say that there is.

And quite frankly I don't think SecDef or SecArmy will let it happen regardless. 

He's going to quietly retire in about 6 months...so will his brother...they'll get their retirement and sign on as some kind of paid military/defense/intelligence analyst with a TV network and bash Trump the military...the DoD and the rest of the folks Progressives hate and the rest will be history.

Once again, you are probably right but that doesn't make it suck any less.

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Re: Impeachment witness Alexander Vindman escorted from White House [wow]
« Reply #113 on: February 10, 2020, 11:31:27 AM »
Once again, you are probably right but that doesn't make it suck any less.

I agree completely.  And as much as I'd like to see something happen to him...almost 24 years as part of the Green Machine says what needs to happen to him...won't happen.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

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Re: Impeachment witness Alexander Vindman escorted from White House [wow]
« Reply #114 on: February 10, 2020, 12:01:02 PM »
It's nice to dream about...but it's not gonna happen that way.

@txradioguy

True,but it SHOULD. They should even save paper by giving him and his twin the boot on the same piece of paper.

The government should also give them active jail time,since they were officers in the US Army who were also violating their oaths.

Anything short of prison time at Leavenworth is not going to hurt them. They will immediately be hired by Dim "think tanks" at inflated salaries to pay off any fines and lost retirement income,as well as become "political corespondents" at some leftist network or news operation,and end up making more money in the long run.
Ever think you would be arrested for NOT wearing a mask when entering a convenience store?

As that famous philosopher Goober Gore noted,"Whutz sposta be up iz doawn,and whutz sposta be doawn iz up!"

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Re: Impeachment witness Alexander Vindman escorted from White House [wow]
« Reply #115 on: February 10, 2020, 12:06:51 PM »
@txradioguy

True,but it SHOULD. They should even save paper by giving him and his twin the boot on the same piece of paper.

The government should also give them active jail time,since they were officers in the US Army who were also violating their oaths.

Anything short of prison time at Leavenworth is not going to hurt them. They will immediately be hired by Dim "think tanks" at inflated salaries to pay off any fines and lost retirement income,as well as become "political corespondents" at some leftist network or news operation,and end up making more money in the long run.

Don't disagree with anything you said Pete. 
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Online sneakypete

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Re: Impeachment witness Alexander Vindman escorted from White House [wow]
« Reply #116 on: February 10, 2020, 12:25:20 PM »
Don't disagree with anything you said Pete.

@txradioguy

Sadly,this is one of those times when I wish I were wrong.
Ever think you would be arrested for NOT wearing a mask when entering a convenience store?

As that famous philosopher Goober Gore noted,"Whutz sposta be up iz doawn,and whutz sposta be doawn iz up!"

Online EdinVA

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Re: Impeachment witness Alexander Vindman escorted from White House [wow]
« Reply #117 on: February 10, 2020, 12:28:05 PM »
@txradioguy

Sadly,this is one of those times when I wish I were wrong.
And they threw that kid in the navy in prison for taking a picture to show his mother what he was doing.... No one is above the law... right

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Re: Impeachment witness Alexander Vindman escorted from White House [wow]
« Reply #118 on: February 10, 2020, 12:32:19 PM »
@txradioguy

Sadly,this is one of those times when I wish I were wrong.

If the United States Army will not prosecute the likes of these two within their ranks that once-proud institution has become nothing more than a shell of its former self and that "Long Gray Line" no longer has any meaning.

My $.02
« Last Edit: February 10, 2020, 12:54:19 PM by Bigun »

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Re: Impeachment witness Alexander Vindman escorted from White House [wow]
« Reply #119 on: February 10, 2020, 12:33:22 PM »
And they threw that kid in the navy in prison for taking a picture to show his mother what he was doing.... No one is above the law... right

Make's me sick to my stomach thinking about it @EdinVA

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Re: Impeachment witness Alexander Vindman escorted from White House [wow]
« Reply #120 on: February 10, 2020, 12:56:58 PM »
Make's me sick to my stomach thinking about it @EdinVA

I am sure there was more to the story than what we were told, but still...

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Re: Impeachment witness Alexander Vindman escorted from White House [wow]
« Reply #121 on: February 10, 2020, 12:58:27 PM »
Just because we don't see the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff on television condemning Vindman, it doesn't mean that they are in approval of the coup.

Under questioning by John Ratcliffe, you can read about him giving the Ukrainians instruction to go against the CiC’s stated desires here: https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2019/11/09/the-coup-against-a-sitting-u-s-president-became-official-on-october-29th-2019/

Pay close attention to the parts highlighted for emphasis by Veteran and Career LEO, Roscoe B. Davis. His Tweet thread is here: https://twitter.com/RoscoeBDavis1/status/1192918037864861698

As you read through Vindman's testimony (especially as questioned by Representative John Ratcliffe), it is clear that he was not only disobeying implied orders from the Commander in Chief, but he was also directing and inciting foreign (Ukrainian) actors to also decline to cooperate with the stated desires of the Commander in Chief.

From Article 92 link above:





From Article 88 link above:

@Bigun
So vidman is not the angel everyone was led to believe... I am shocked...

Online Bigun

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Re: Impeachment witness Alexander Vindman escorted from White House [wow]
« Reply #122 on: February 10, 2020, 01:08:47 PM »
@Bigun
So vidman is not the angel everyone was led to believe... I am shocked...

LOL! I'm sure you are! /s

Not He but they are all subversive trash IMHO.

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Re: Impeachment witness Alexander Vindman escorted from White House [wow]
« Reply #123 on: February 10, 2020, 01:12:55 PM »
I am sure there was more to the story than what we were told, but still...

Perhaps the Navy still values its integrity @EdinVA.

When I was in the military I had a Top Secret CRYPTO clearance which was, at the time, the highest one you could get.  I and other people around me were frequently reminded about the pain we would endure if we violated that trust intentionally or not. Didn't make a damned bit of difference.

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Re: Impeachment witness Alexander Vindman escorted from White House [wow]
« Reply #124 on: February 10, 2020, 01:19:14 PM »
If the United States Army will not prosecute the likes of these two within their ranks that once-proud institution has become nothing more than a shell of its former self and that "Long Gray Line" no longer has any meaning.

My $.02

The politicization of the officer ranks started decades ago.  It's always been a system where once you got to a certain rank you needed a benefactor to help you attain the next rank...and at the Flag (General Officer) level that usually involves a Senator willing to nominate you for your star.  And in a lot of cases there's a lot of quid pro quo going on there.

Most Lt. Colonel's know coming out of the Command and General Staff College if they are going to wind up being a 30 year Colonel O-6 or if they are going to make it to the General Officer rank...and most of it has to do with politics.

It's the same with the Sergeant Major rank on the enlisted side...it's all politics.  Which is why I never wanted to make it above E-8 Master Sergeant.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!


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