Author Topic: Astrogate: Luhnow, Hinch suspended—then fired  (Read 2685 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online DCPatriot

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46,007
  • Gender: Male
  • "...and the winning number is...not yours!
Re: Astrogate: Luhnow, Hinch suspended—then fired
« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2020, 08:51:03 pm »
The more I think about this...LOL

With the advent of broadened legalized gambling on sports, it's imperative that the proper message be sent.

Today's available technology DEMANDS the harshest punishments to those that cheat their way to victory and fame.

If Pete Rose gets a lifetime ban, then so should Jose Altuve & Friends.

Rose's capacity to manage/earn a living in The Show was stripped from him for even the illusion of cheating.

Come on, man.

Hinch?   GONE!  Goodbye! 

Same needs to happen to all the coaches or owners that condoned it by their silence.   

And put a big asterisk on the 2 World Series (Astros/RedSox)
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Offline truth_seeker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,386
  • Gender: Male
  • Common Sense Results Oriented Conservative Veteran
Re: Astrogate: Luhnow, Hinch suspended—then fired
« Reply #26 on: January 14, 2020, 09:01:33 pm »
Hey, what about those Dodgers?

We wuz robbed!
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline EasyAce

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,385
  • Gender: Male
  • RIP Blue, 2012-2020---my big, gentle friend.
Re: Astrogate: Luhnow, Hinch suspended—then fired
« Reply #27 on: January 14, 2020, 09:29:18 pm »

@DCPatriot

Part of the problem there is that the rules against mechanical/technological/electronic from-off-the-field sign stealing didn't formally prescribe particular punishments and left it up to the commissioner's discretion. Rule 21(d), which Pete Rose broke, does prescribe specific punishments: a year's banishment if you bet on baseball games in which you weren't taking part (as in, if all Rose had done was bet on games that didn't involve his team, he'd only have gotten a year's worth of siddown-and-shaddap), a lifetime's banishment if you bet on games in which you were taking part---whether as a player, a manager, a coach. Rose broke both parts, and the revelation of just what was in the Bertolini notebooks five years ago really did put paid to any lingering Rose defenses. And they don't say "except if you bet on your team to win" (one of Rose's remaining pleas), either. (One point the Bertolini books helped to make, which often gets forgotten: Rose was so deep into betting with bookies that, on days he didn't bet on the Reds one way or another, that sent the street gamblers a message that those weren't particularly good days to bet on the Reds, and they'd adjust their betting plans accordingly. In other words, Rose's betting patterns on the Reds aided and abetted other extralegal street gamblers one way or the other no matter what.)

If the off-field sign stealing rules included specific punishments, that would make things a whole lot different not just for Jeff Luhnow and A.J. Hinch but for those Astro players (we don't know exactly whom just yet other than the suspicion upon Carlos Beltran) who partook of or helped operate the Astro Intelligence Agency. (Based on the notorious video showing then-White Sox pitcher Danny Farquhar working against the Astros, with the bangs on the can punched up a bit for better audibility by a viewer, I can suggest reasonably that both Evan Gattis and now-retired Brian McCann were two who worked with stolen signs sent their way. That's also the game in which Farquhar smelled an AIA rat enough to call time, call his catcher to the mound, and mix up their signs a little bit more to try thwarting the AIA . . . )

I'm going to go out on a limb now and suggest that it won't be long before those in the commissioner's office responsible for instigating review/rewrite of the rules will look into and change the rules against mechanical/technical/electronic from-off-the-field sign stealing to determine and include specific punishments for the high-tech cheaters.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2020, 09:32:38 pm by EasyAce »


"The question of who is right is a small one, indeed, beside the question of what is right."---Albert Jay Nock.

Fake news---news you don't like or don't want to hear.

Offline EasyAce

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,385
  • Gender: Male
  • RIP Blue, 2012-2020---my big, gentle friend.
Re: Astrogate: Luhnow, Hinch suspended—then fired
« Reply #28 on: January 14, 2020, 09:30:07 pm »
Hey, what about those Dodgers?

We wuz robbed!
@truth_seeker

You laugh, but then-Dodgers pitcher Yu Darvish has puckishly tweeted that if they hold a 2017 Series parade for the Dodgers he'd like to be part of it.  wink777


"The question of who is right is a small one, indeed, beside the question of what is right."---Albert Jay Nock.

Fake news---news you don't like or don't want to hear.

Online DCPatriot

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46,007
  • Gender: Male
  • "...and the winning number is...not yours!
Re: Astrogate: Luhnow, Hinch suspended—then fired
« Reply #29 on: January 14, 2020, 10:17:01 pm »
@EasyAce

Thanks for the detailed reply.   :beer:
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Offline TomSea

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 40,432
  • Gender: Male
  • All deserve a trial if accused
Re: Astrogate: Luhnow, Hinch suspended—then fired
« Reply #30 on: January 15, 2020, 02:56:10 am »
I think as one alluded to on page 1, there is so much of this in professional sports, these guys got caught.

That's not to demean, I'm sure the many who play the sport fair and square.

Offline Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51,528
  • Gender: Male
  • Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God
    • The FairTax Plan
Re: Astrogate: Luhnow, Hinch suspended—then fired
« Reply #31 on: January 15, 2020, 03:57:08 am »
I think as one alluded to on page 1, there is so much of this in professional sports, these guys got caught.

That's not to demean, I'm sure the many who play the sport fair and square.

Sorry @TomSea but there is no sport left in pro baseball or football.  It's ALL big business now.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline AllThatJazzZ

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,633
  • Gender: Female
  • Adopt your next pet, preferably a senior.
Re: Astrogate: Luhnow, Hinch suspended—then fired
« Reply #32 on: January 15, 2020, 04:00:48 am »
May I ask a newbie question please? Why aren't any of the players disciplined?


A government big enough to give you everything you want
is a government big enough to take away everything you have.


Offline EasyAce

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,385
  • Gender: Male
  • RIP Blue, 2012-2020---my big, gentle friend.
Re: Astrogate: Luhnow, Hinch suspended—then fired
« Reply #33 on: January 15, 2020, 05:00:51 am »
May I ask a newbie question please? Why aren't any of the players disciplined?
@AllThatJazzZ

I'm guessing they need to know first exactly which players partook and which players declined to partake. Which is something I'd like to know, too.

Based on the video showing then-White Sox pitcher Danny Farquhar catching on and having his catcher switch up the signs against the Astros, I only know Evan Gattis and now-retired Brian McCann may have been involved. Disciplining McCann might be tricky other than to ban him from baseball association for a year. Gattis is also retired.

But those guys were more or less secondary players. We don't know yet how many of the bigger Astros were doing it.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2020, 05:04:23 am by EasyAce »


"The question of who is right is a small one, indeed, beside the question of what is right."---Albert Jay Nock.

Fake news---news you don't like or don't want to hear.

Offline AllThatJazzZ

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,633
  • Gender: Female
  • Adopt your next pet, preferably a senior.
Re: Astrogate: Luhnow, Hinch suspended—then fired
« Reply #34 on: January 15, 2020, 05:58:01 am »
@AllThatJazzZ

But those guys were more or less secondary players. We don't know yet how many of the bigger Astros were doing it.

@EasyAce

Those are the ones I'm most concerned about. The ones who are still playing. The ones who, in spite of Hinch's desire that they stop, continued to involve themselves in the cheating. I'm not absolving Hinch. I am wanting to know if there's ANYONE I could trust on the team.

Do you think they'll be singled out to pay a price?


A government big enough to give you everything you want
is a government big enough to take away everything you have.


Offline EasyAce

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,385
  • Gender: Male
  • RIP Blue, 2012-2020---my big, gentle friend.
Re: Astrogate: Luhnow, Hinch suspended—then fired
« Reply #35 on: January 15, 2020, 06:20:09 am »
@EasyAce

Those are the ones I'm most concerned about. The ones who are still playing. The ones who, in spite of Hinch's desire that they stop, continued to involve themselves in the cheating. I'm not absolving Hinch. I am wanting to know if there's ANYONE I could trust on the team.

Do you think they'll be singled out to pay a price?
@AllThatJazzZ

We'll know soon enough, I suspect.

The same goes with the Red Sox.


"The question of who is right is a small one, indeed, beside the question of what is right."---Albert Jay Nock.

Fake news---news you don't like or don't want to hear.

Offline GrouchoTex

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,382
  • Gender: Male
Re: Astrogate: Luhnow, Hinch suspended—then fired
« Reply #36 on: January 15, 2020, 03:29:43 pm »
@AllThatJazzZ

We'll know soon enough, I suspect.

The same goes with the Red Sox.

@AllThatJazzZ
@EasyAce

That's my thing as well.
If there are players still on the roster doing this, they won't instill confidence in a community reeling from this.

"Root for the good guys" they told us on their billboards.
They also draft based on character, they told us.
First came Osuna, and we all said, "Hey, wait a minute..."
Then came the cheating allegations from Fiers.

It's all nonsense now, just lies and marketing ploys.

I get that it is a business and you market accordingly, but have a little truth in advertising, will you?

How about "Astros, all technologies and players used, anything to win".

It doesn't have the same ring to it as "root for the good guys", but it is honest.

I'm a bit embarrassed for rooting for them, to tell the truth.
I was "all in" for a while there.

Offline EasyAce

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,385
  • Gender: Male
  • RIP Blue, 2012-2020---my big, gentle friend.
Re: Astrogate: Luhnow, Hinch suspended—then fired
« Reply #37 on: January 15, 2020, 04:18:32 pm »
I'm a bit embarrassed for rooting for them, to tell the truth.
I was "all in" for a while there.
@GrouchoTex
An entire fan base was all in with the Astros.

Just as with the Red Sox.

Just as with the 1919 White Sox.

Just as with the 1951 Giants, even though the full truth about their off-field high-tech-for-the-time sign stealing to enable that staggering stretch comeback (from thirteen games out) and force the fabled pennant playoff wasn't revealed until after the turn of this century. (I know, because I appeared on a podcast or two recently in which the subject turned to Leo Durocher's spyglass-to-buzzer plot and the host was an old New York Giants fan who admitted it was tough for him to come to terms with it.)


"The question of who is right is a small one, indeed, beside the question of what is right."---Albert Jay Nock.

Fake news---news you don't like or don't want to hear.

Offline AllThatJazzZ

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,633
  • Gender: Female
  • Adopt your next pet, preferably a senior.
Re: Astrogate: Luhnow, Hinch suspended—then fired
« Reply #38 on: January 16, 2020, 03:37:30 am »
@AllThatJazzZ
@EasyAce

That's my thing as well.
If there are players still on the roster doing this, they won't instill confidence in a community reeling from this.

"Root for the good guys" they told us on their billboards.
They also draft based on character, they told us.
First came Osuna, and we all said, "Hey, wait a minute..."
Then came the cheating allegations from Fiers.

It's all nonsense now, just lies and marketing ploys.

I get that it is a business and you market accordingly, but have a little truth in advertising, will you?

How about "Astros, all technologies and players used, anything to win".

It doesn't have the same ring to it as "root for the good guys", but it is honest.

I'm a bit embarrassed for rooting for them, to tell the truth.
I was "all in" for a while there.

@GrouchoTex

Short of a full confession and a contrite demeanor, I don't think I could trust any of the players again. I really have to wonder if they know that what they did has, in fact, left a whole community reeling.

I wasn't yet a fan when they were using the "good guys" slogan. The first disappointment I remember was bringing Osuna aboard. I told my friends that that decision would mean trouble for the team. I didn't know how it would play out, but I was sure you don't bring on someone of such questionable character for the sake of winning.

As you point out, it's a business. I'm old-fashioned enough to believe that business should be conducted ethically. I also understand the biblical tenet of sowing and reaping. Nothing remains hidden.

Like you, I was a proud fan. Now I want to hang my head in shame for their misconduct. I trusted in those "good guys." Now I'm jaded and refuse to devote anymore time to the game.

Your suggested slogan may not have the catchiest ring to it, but it hits the nail on the head.


A government big enough to give you everything you want
is a government big enough to take away everything you have.


Offline AllThatJazzZ

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,633
  • Gender: Female
  • Adopt your next pet, preferably a senior.
Re: Astrogate: Luhnow, Hinch suspended—then fired
« Reply #39 on: January 16, 2020, 04:58:16 am »
LA City Council to vote on resolution demanding Dodgers be given 2017 and 2018 World Series trophies

https://sports.yahoo.com/los-angeles-dodgers-world-series-astros-red-sox-cheating-trophies-043201984.html




So typically California! Sheesh.


A government big enough to give you everything you want
is a government big enough to take away everything you have.


Offline corbe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 38,311
Re: Astrogate: Luhnow, Hinch suspended—then fired
« Reply #40 on: January 16, 2020, 04:59:57 pm »
Justin Verlander had a problem with sign-stealing until it helped him win a World Series

Larry Brown Sports 4 hrs ago


Justin Verlander is one of the more outspoken players in MLB. But he, like his Houston teammates, has been quiet since MLB handed down punishment to the Astros on Monday. That’s particularly notable in Verlander’s case considering his feelings on sign-stealing before joining Houston.

Verlander joined Houston after agreeing to a trade that beat the deadline by seconds in 2017. It took a lot of convincing for him to go to the Astros, as he originally blocked a trade to the AL West club.
Before Verlander joined the Astros, his career seemed to be going the wrong way, and there were concerns that he had lost his status as an ace. He was 10-8 with a 3.82 ERA, and early in the season, the Tigers were concerned he was tipping pitches. There were even some suggestions at the time that opponents were stealing signs.

Then in June of 2017, two months before his trade to Houston, Verlander was quoted by MLive.com’s Evan Woodbery raising concerns about illegal sign-stealing.

From Woodbery’s article:
This isn’t the innocent sign-stealing of yore. This is high-tech stuff, involving team video departments and even code-crackers.

<..snip..>

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/justin-verlander-had-a-problem-with-sign-stealing-until-it-helped-him-win-a-world-series/ar-BBYY3ig?ocid=spartanntp
No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Online DCPatriot

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46,007
  • Gender: Male
  • "...and the winning number is...not yours!
Re: Astrogate: Luhnow, Hinch suspended—then fired
« Reply #41 on: January 18, 2020, 08:50:41 pm »
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Offline EasyAce

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,385
  • Gender: Male
  • RIP Blue, 2012-2020---my big, gentle friend.
Re: Astrogate: Luhnow, Hinch suspended—then fired
« Reply #42 on: January 18, 2020, 09:21:09 pm »

@DCPatriot

 :silly: :rolling:

I collapsed laughing when I saw that on Facebook!


"The question of who is right is a small one, indeed, beside the question of what is right."---Albert Jay Nock.

Fake news---news you don't like or don't want to hear.