Author Topic: BREAKING>>GAO finds Trump administration broke law by withholding aid from Ukraine  (Read 2411 times)

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Offline Smokin Joe

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I think they will turn on Biden just like they turned on Dean.  The Dems know that Biden is a disaster waiting to happen.  That is why they are rushing this impeachment now so they can have enough time to dump him before the primaries really get going.  By the time the South Carolina primary ends, you will see an entirely different outlook on the Dem nominee.  And it ain't gonna be Biden.
I think they are going to try to run Warhen, but I don't think the full Socialist crap will play that well with the base.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Hoodat

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I think they are going to try to run Warhen, but I don't think the full Socialist crap will play that well with the base.

New Hampshire should decide between Sanders and Warren.  But I am still looking for that surprise candidate (Klobuchar) to come out of nowhere just like Bill Clinton did after LOSING the New Hampshire primary in 1992.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

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"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

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Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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I don't think it's absurd.

Well, I'm one.  I also think Trump believes Biden poses the biggest risk of all the Dems because he'd have more appeal in battleground midwest states (add Pa. in there also) than any of the hard lefties.  He's also always drawn strong black support, and is less likely to alienate moderate voters.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/biden-starts-2020-as-the-biggest-threat-to-trump

agreed

Offline bigheadfred

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Name me one dem prez in the last 60 years that wasn't a disaster.
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline roamer_1

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Name me one dem prez in the last 60 years that wasn't a disaster.

A low bar... I can only name you one Republican likewise.

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Darrell Castle isn't a crook.  Care to try again?
I voted for Cruz.  He's not a crook.
@Once-Ler .

Remind me. I voted third party. Can you please tell me who I really voted for?

It is so confusing.

Three times he was denied before the rooster crowed.   :0001:

Offline Smokin Joe

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Three times he was denied before the rooster crowed.   :0001:
Yeah, but those three were by the same guy.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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So a report that showed no wrong doing by the President convinced you he was a bad man?
ask someone you trust to read it for you @txradioguy

Offline txradioguy

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ask someone you trust to read it for you @txradioguy

I've read it.  Heard Mueller stumble f*ck his way through his own report too.

Even Mueller said Trump did nothing wrong.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

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Offline Hoodat

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2008 Democrat Presidential Primary Vote Totals:

  • Obama – 16,706,853
  • Clinton – 16,239,821
  • Edwards – 742,010
  • Richardson – 89,054
  • Uncommitted – 82,660
  • Kucinich – 68,482
  • Biden – 64,041


'Uncommitted' brought in more votes than Joe Biden.  The only thing Biden brought to the ticket was life insurance for Obama.  Even Delaware's 3 electoral votes would have gone Dem without Biden.





If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline bigheadfred

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Yeah. And he wasn't perfect.

AFAIK it has been a shitshow all my life.
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline Hoodat

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It's funny that someone would bring up Nixon considering it was the Democrats who got caught spying on a Presidential campaign.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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I've read it.  Heard Mueller stumble f*ck his way through his own report too.

Even Mueller said Trump did nothing wrong.
link to quote please

Offline corbe

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   It's actually being reported today that the two peeing prostitutes are Ukrainian and not Russian.   



              This could get interesting.
No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Offline Hoodat

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link to quote please

Will that be before or after you cite the law that Donald Trump broke?
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline Hoodat

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   It's actually being reported today that the two peeing prostitutes are Ukrainian and not Russian.

Nyet!
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline bigheadfred

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Nyet!

The only Russian word I know is pravda. It's true.
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline bigheadfred

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Fine.  Don't defend your assertion.

I'll defend mine. Pravda = True.  :tongue2: :tongue2: :tongue2:
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline Hoodat

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Fine.  Don't defend your assertion.

I have no problem defending my assertions here or anywhere.

  • Trump did not commit a crime.
  • Trump did not ask Zelenskiy to publicly open an investigation against Hunter Biden.
  • Trump did not ask Ukraine to interfere in the 2020 election.
  • Trump did not cover up a crime.
  • The Democrats have no valid case.

The defense of these assertions rests in the fact that there has not been a single shred of contrary evidence produced by anyone, including you.

Personally, I couldn't go on repeating a claim that I knew I couldn't back, especially after being called out on it repeatedly.  You see, it is simply a matter of integrity.  If I can't defend 'truth', then my words no longer matter.  You on the other hand don't seem to have any concern for integrity or truth.  Which is why you continue to cling to the 'feeling' that Trump broke the law even though confronted by your inability to cite one.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline Chosen Daughter

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AG William Barr: "I'm recused from that matter because one of the law firms that represented Epstein long ago was a firm that I subsequently joined for a period of time."

Alexander Acosta Labor Secretary resigned under pressure concerning his "sweetheart deal" with Jeffrey Epstein.  He was under consideration for AG after Sessions was removed, but was forced to resign instead.

Offline Chosen Daughter

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Nixon broke the law.  Trump didn't.
Nixon was digging up political dirt.  Trump wasn't.
Nixon tried to cover up the crime.  Trump isn't covering up anything.
Nixon was never impeached.  Trump was.

Other than that, the remaining points are exactly the same.

Right, why he advised Bolton and Mulvaney not to testify.
AG William Barr: "I'm recused from that matter because one of the law firms that represented Epstein long ago was a firm that I subsequently joined for a period of time."

Alexander Acosta Labor Secretary resigned under pressure concerning his "sweetheart deal" with Jeffrey Epstein.  He was under consideration for AG after Sessions was removed, but was forced to resign instead.

Offline Hoodat

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Looks like he broke the law.

How so?  All funds were made available.  Please explain exactly how Trump broke the law.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline Chosen Daughter

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How so?  All funds were made available.  Please explain exactly how Trump broke the law.

How does the ICA work?

The ICA lays out procedures the President must follow to reduce, delay, or eliminate funding in an account. The Act divides impoundments into two categories: rescissions and deferrals.

Rescissions

Put simply, if the President wants to spend less money than Congress provided for a particular purpose, he or she must first secure a law providing Congressional approval to rescind the funding in question. The ICA requires that the President send a special message to Congress identifying the amount of the proposed rescission; the reasons for it; and the budgetary, economic, and programmatic effects of the rescission. Upon transmission of such special message, the President may withhold certain funding in the affected accounts for up to 45 legislative session days. If a law approving the rescission is not enacted within the 45 days, any withheld funds must be made available for obligation.



A 2018 Government Accountability Office legal opinion holds that if the President proposes a rescission, he or she must make the affected funds available to be prudently obligated before the funds expire, even if the 45-day clock is still running. This means, for example, that the President cannot strategically time a rescission request for late in the fiscal year and withhold the funding until it expires, thus achieving a rescission without Congressional approval.

Deferrals

The ICA defines a “deferral” as withholding, delaying, or – through other Executive action or inaction – effectively precluding funding from being obligated or spent. The ICA prescribes three narrow circumstances in which the President may propose to defer funding for a program: (1) providing for contingencies; (2) achieving budgetary savings made possible through improved operational efficiency; and (3) as specifically provided by law.
The ICA requires that the President send a special message to Congress identifying the amount of the proposed deferral; the reasons for it; and the period of the proposed deferral. Upon transmission of such special message, the funds may be deferred without further action by Congress; however, the deferral cannot extend beyond the end of the fiscal year in which the special message is sent. The ICA language on deferrals is long-standing budget law that allows the Executive branch to delay the obligation or expenditure of funding only for the specified reasons rather than policy reasons.

https://budget.house.gov/publications/report/impoundment-control-act-1974-what-it-why-does-it-matter

Which might demonstrate why its important for Presidents to have competent lawyers who are aware of existing laws so you don't get in trouble.  Not personal lawyers out chasing Russian propaganda in other countries and only getting you involved with shady criminals who have ulterior motives for other foreign governments.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2020, 06:03:46 am by Chosen Daughter »
AG William Barr: "I'm recused from that matter because one of the law firms that represented Epstein long ago was a firm that I subsequently joined for a period of time."

Alexander Acosta Labor Secretary resigned under pressure concerning his "sweetheart deal" with Jeffrey Epstein.  He was under consideration for AG after Sessions was removed, but was forced to resign instead.

Offline catfish1957

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Name me one dem prez in the last 60 years that wasn't a disaster.

I actually think you could exetend that time line to at least 100 years. Including the socialist puke FDR.
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Offline Hoodat

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How does the ICA work?

The ICA lays out procedures the President must follow to reduce, delay, or eliminate funding in an account. The Act divides impoundments into two categories: rescissions and deferrals.

Rescissions

Put simply, if the President wants to spend less money than Congress provided for a particular purpose, he or she must first secure a law providing Congressional approval to rescind the funding in question. The ICA requires that the President send a special message to Congress identifying the amount of the proposed rescission; the reasons for it; and the budgetary, economic, and programmatic effects of the rescission. Upon transmission of such special message, the President may withhold certain funding in the affected accounts for up to 45 legislative session days. If a law approving the rescission is not enacted within the 45 days, any withheld funds must be made available for obligation.

A 2018 Government Accountability Office legal opinion holds that if the President proposes a rescission, he or she must make the affected funds available to be prudently obligated before the funds expire, even if the 45-day clock is still running. This means, for example, that the President cannot strategically time a rescission request for late in the fiscal year and withhold the funding until it expires, thus achieving a rescission without Congressional approval.

@Chosen Daughter

Personally, I wholeheartedly believe this section of the ICA to be blatantly unconstitutional.  It is a usurpation of Executive Branch power that is Constitutionally reserved exclusively as Executive Power.  Having said that, you will find the provisions stated above fully satisfied.  The Executive Branch did indeed obligate the funds before they expired.


Deferrals

The ICA defines a “deferral” as withholding, delaying, or – through other Executive action or inaction – effectively precluding funding from being obligated or spent. The ICA prescribes three narrow circumstances in which the President may propose to defer funding for a program: (1) providing for contingencies; (2) achieving budgetary savings made possible through improved operational efficiency; and (3) as specifically provided by law.
The ICA requires that the President send a special message to Congress identifying the amount of the proposed deferral; the reasons for it; and the period of the proposed deferral. Upon transmission of such special message, the funds may be deferred without further action by Congress; however, the deferral cannot extend beyond the end of the fiscal year in which the special message is sent. The ICA language on deferrals is long-standing budget law that allows the Executive branch to delay the obligation or expenditure of funding only for the specified reasons rather than policy reasons.

https://budget.house.gov/publications/report/impoundment-control-act-1974-what-it-why-does-it-matter

Which might demonstrate why its important for Presidents to have competent lawyers who are aware of existing laws so you don't get in trouble.  Not personal lawyers out chasing Russian propaganda in other countries and only getting you involved with shady criminals who have ulterior motives for other foreign governments.

Deferrals are further defined in 2 U.S. Code § 684.  And if you bothered to read the GAO report, you would learn that DOD did indeed notify Congress of the delays (which explains why the House was unable to include these statutes in their impeachment articles.

So yet again, I ask, what law did the President violate?
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-