Thinking about buying a new HP laptop

[DB]

Well, I gotta say it, and I don't care if you razz me:

Get a Mac instead.

iMac, Mac Mini, or MacBook Pro.

Yes, they "cost more". But they'll serve you well.

However -- DO NOT buy a 13" MacBook Pro right now. The current keyboards can be problematic. Apple will release a 2020 MacBook 13" (might end up being 14") in May/June that will have a good keyboard. The MBP 16" being sold NOW already has the new keyboard, but it ain't cheap.

My choice: 2018 Mac Mini i7. Got it from the Apple refurbished store.

Not for gaming.

[roamer_1]

Here is the important part you need to know:
When I got the computer, I went to @roamer_1 by PM and told him what I got. He said it was a good machine, and then he said something like this, "I don't have lighted keys on keyboard."  AHA!!  I have something roamer doesn't have - LIGHTED KEYBOARD!!  The King of computers, roamer, doesn't have a lighted keyboard!!!  I think of him every time I click it on.

That's right @Victoria33 . And I'm still jealous.   

[sneakypete]

If you are a gamer, and it sounds like you are, the 144 Hz refresh rate is a big deal. 

@DB

Well,I like playing computer games a LOT more than I need or want to. I am just looking to be set up to play games when the docs put me somewhere there is not much else to do. In the meantime, I can just use it like a fast regular computer.

How does 144hz compare to the graphics produced by my plasma tv? I had never even heard of Hz until yesterday. That was when I found out the standard computer screen was putting out 60 Hz,and gamer computers put out much more.

[sneakypete]

@sneakypete

 

 

When you are in hospital, send me emails; you are my special friend although you drag me through mud when you post to me on a thread.  @Cyber Liberty should give you a time out due to what you say to me.

HEY! I thought you said we are friends,and here you are wanting a mod to give me a time out????

Then, you send me a PM and profess your undying love for me.

I did?

 

[DB]

@DB

Well,I like playing computer games a LOT more than I need or want to. I am just looking to be set up to play games when the docs put me somewhere there is not much else to do. In the meantime, I can just use it like a fast regular computer.

How does 144hz compare to the graphics produced by my plasma tv? I had never even heard of Hz until yesterday. That was when I found out the standard computer screen was putting out 60 Hz,and gamer computers put out much more.

TVs vary on the their refresh rate though most movies (film) are 24 frames per second and that's why they look choppy with large motion. Many current TVs interpolate frames to smooth out motion even when originally coming from film.

The primary issue for gaming is delay. When two people (or more) are playing head to head if one person sees the other guy a little sooner due to delay in the frame rate they can pull the trigger before you or dodge what you just fired. Another problem is what you shoot at is a little late and therefore you miss the moving target even though it looks like you nailed it. Because what you see is a little late and has moved further from what you see. The higher frame rate is significantly smoother looking with motion but that's only aesthetics. The delay is live or die.

[Snarknado]

There's some amazing stuff out there if you want to spend the money. I bought the cheapest QHD G-sync monitor ($300) with the idea of upgrading later. A guy on another forum with a system almost identical to mine went with a $2400 Acer X35 beast 3440x1440 200hz HDR. I was tempted by the Alienware 3420DW 120hz ultrawide but $1000 with no HDR was too hard to swallow.

[sneakypete]

There's some amazing stuff out there if you want to spend the money. I bought the cheapest QHD G-sync monitor ($300) with the idea of upgrading later. A guy on another forum with a system almost identical to mine went with a $2400 Acer X35 beast 3440x1440 200hz HDR. I was tempted by the Alienware 3420DW 120hz ultrawide but $1000 with no HDR was too hard to swallow.

@Snarknado

I see no real difference between computer gaming or any other hobby. If you enjoy doing it and can afford to spend the money,spend the money.  If you can't afford to spend the money without shorting real life obligations,don't.

It really ain't all that complex.

Truth to tell,how boring would life be in you could just buy anything you want,any time you wanted it,and never even see the bills because your accountants took care of it? Life without dreams would be boring as hell.

[Sighlass]

My advice for computers is to play old games, lol... Been playing the same MMORPG for 14 years now... Just find an open world game that is huge, I mean only things like Mindcraft are bigger than Guild Wars (especially the full set of games that you can purchase in one blast now days).

Ain't a FPS game, but it has been a blast... plays a bit like the Elder Scroll games (somewhat) but just so much more. Plus it was buy and play, no monthly subscriptions.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgYNdp6A5hU

[EdinVA]

Well @sneakypete,
Did you get your new toy?
Have you put your eye out yet... 

[sneakypete]

Well @sneakypete,
Did you get your new toy?
Have you put your eye out yet... 

@EdinVA

Nope. Supposed to be here today or tomorrow. The Fed Ex page says it will be delivered tomorrow,and while I was looking at that page I got a text saying it would be delivered today.

Ironically enough,my desktop started behaving immediately after buying the new laptop. Went 2 days without the slighest stumble,then a brief spell yesterday with the memory problems and keyboard problems,but everything working perfectly again today.

My own personal memory problems seem to be clearing up some too,and once they do I will be working at getting to the root of the problem on this desktop,and fixing it.

[Snarknado]

So what's the verdict? FWIW a few days ago Amazon had a $1000 lightning "deal" on a 17" laptop. Tons of storage and RAM but only a 4-core i5, no GPU, and panel only 1600x900. Refresh rate not shown so presumably nowhere near your 144hz.

On the off chance you have an empty SATA drive slot, the $50 1TB Seagate FireCuda hybrid drive with adaptive 8GB flash cache might be worth a look for installing big games.

[sneakypete]

So what's the verdict? FWIW a few days ago Amazon had a $1000 lightning "deal" on a 17" laptop. Tons of storage and RAM but only a 4-core i5, no GPU, and panel only 1600x900. Refresh rate not shown so presumably nowhere near your 144hz.

On the off chance you have an empty SATA drive slot, the $50 1TB Seagate FireCuda hybrid drive with adaptive 8GB flash cache might be worth a look for installing big games.

@Snarknado

Mine has a 256 ssd drive,8 GB DDR4-2666 SDRAM (2 x 4 GB),Intel® Core™ i7-9750H (2.6 GHz base frequency, up to 4.5 GHz base with Intel® Turbo Boost Technology, 12 MB cache, 6 cores) processor

Discrete: NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 1660 Ti with Max-Q design (6 GB GDDR6 dedicated) graphics card

8 GB DDR4-2666 SDRAM

1 USB 3.1 Gen 2 Type-Câ„¢ (10 Gb/s signaling rate, Power Delivery 3.0, DisplayPortâ„¢ 1.4, HP Sleep and Charge); 1 USB 3.1 Gen 1 Type-A (HP Sleep and Charge); 2 USB 3.1 Gen 1 Type-A (Data Transfer Only); 1 HDMI; 1 AC smart pin; 1 RJ-45; 1 headphone/microphone combo


1 multi-format SD media card reader

17.3" diagonal FHD IPS anti-glare WLED-backlit (1920 x 1080) display

300 nits brightness display,whatever the hell that means

B&O, dual speakers

And I ordered a wireless mouse to go with it for 10 bucks

Total cost to me was $904,delivered.

Got it in a couple of days ago,and so far all I have done with it was charge the battery,turn it on to check the specs and discover I did not get the 144 HZ screen I ordered. I got the standard 60 HZ screen instead.

Everything else was up to spec,so I called HP,told them my order wasn't correct,and I was going to return it. The HP rep I spoke to on the phone told me I could call HP Tech and they could change my 60 HZ screen to a 144 HZ screen remotely somehow. I have had other things to do since,and haven't done that yet.

The only thing that troubles me is I have a copy of every chat I made with HP over the last couple of weeks,but when I called customer service,I discovered they have no copy of the chat where I discussed options and bought it,and neither do I. This troubles me because the page I was looking at while buying didn't show the Hz sceen rate,so I asked him on 3 separate occasions if it was a 60 Hz or a 144 Hz,and each time he assured me it was 144.

I can only conclude the salesman was blowing smoke up my butt to make a sale,and then discovered he was wrong after we disconnected,so he didn't forward or store the chat. Not that it is going to do him much good because I am serious when I say I will return it this week if they can't upgrade the screen for me online.

At any rate,if they can't or won't upgrade my screen rate to 144 Hz on line,I WILL be returning it. I cut back on the size of my RAM and SSD drive to be able to afford a laptop with the 144 Hz screen,so it is a deal breaker with me.

[Snarknado]

Most panels can withstand some overclocking but I think overclocking a 60hz to 144 is only possible in the Q continuum. Anyway you paid for native 144hz so overclocking is not an acceptable fix. Check out this up-to-date article that lists the HP Omen 17 with 144hz and G-sync:

https://www.ultrabookreview.com/21576-laptops-with-144-hz-screens/

BTW IMO 120hz is not a bad compromise if available at lower cost - the G-sync will keep it smooth.

Edit> You listed the 6GB 1660ti - that's a nice step up from the 4GB 1650 you posted earlier but would be overkill with a 60hz FHD panel...

[sneakypete]

Most panels can withstand some overclocking but I think overclocking a 60hz to 144 is only possible in the Q continuum. Anyway you paid for native 144hz so overclocking is not an acceptable fix. Check out this up-to-date article that lists the HP Omen 17 with 144hz and G-sync:

https://www.ultrabookreview.com/21576-laptops-with-144-hz-screens/

BTW IMO 120hz is not a bad compromise if available at lower cost - the G-sync will keep it smooth.

Edit> You listed the 6GB 1660ti - that's a nice step up from the 4GB 1650 you posted earlier but would be overkill with a 60hz FHD panel...

[/b]

@Snarknado

The one I ended up ordering is not the one I was originally looking at. I was building my computer with the first one,and one I bought was already configured and on sale over 300 bucks cheaper. However,there was no HZ listing for the monitor,which is why I asked the guy 3 times if it had the 144 Hz monitor and told him it was a deal killer if it didn't. He told me it did all 3 times,and it doesn't.

I was surprised when told it could be upgraded to 144 Mz online,but am leaning towards just returning the damn thing and demanding they send me what I ordered. The thing is my budget is already stretched out a couple of hundred bucks more than I can afford right at this point,and if I have to pay the restocking fee AND extra money on top of that to get what I thought I was going to get,I just can't afford it right now.

Truthfully,I would have never ordered it if I had known it had the 60 Mz monitor.

[Snarknado]

From that link I posted, it appears to be much harder than I thought to find a good gaming laptop under $1000...

[DB]

[/b]

@Snarknado

The one I ended up ordering is not the one I was originally looking at. I was building my computer with the first one,and one I bought was already configured and on sale over 300 bucks cheaper. However,there was no HZ listing for the monitor,which is why I asked the guy 3 times if it had the 144 Hz monitor and told him it was a deal killer if it didn't. He told me it did all 3 times,and it doesn't.

I was surprised when told it could be upgraded to 144 Mz online,but am leaning towards just returning the damn thing and demanding they send me what I ordered. The thing is my budget is already stretched out a couple of hundred bucks more than I can afford right at this point,and if I have to pay the restocking fee AND extra money on top of that to get what I thought I was going to get,I just can't afford it right now.

Truthfully,I would have never ordered it if I had known it had the 60 Mz monitor.

Sorry the whole thing has gone south for you. It really sucks when the sales people mislead you on the capabilities of the product they're trying to sell. It would seem quite unlikely that the actual hardware refresh rate of the display is a software upgrade.

[sneakypete]

Sorry the whole thing has gone south for you. It really sucks when the sales people mislead you on the capabilities of the product they're trying to sell. It would seem quite unlikely that the actual hardware refresh rate of the display is a software upgrade.

@DB

I will update this board on that once I am having a good enough day that I feel like taking it on with the HP tech people.

[Gefn]

Well, I gotta say it, and I don't care if you razz me:

Get a Mac instead.

iMac, Mac Mini, or MacBook Pro.

Yes, they "cost more". But they'll serve you well.

However -- DO NOT buy a 13" MacBook Pro right now. The current keyboards can be problematic. Apple will release a 2020 MacBook 13" (might end up being 14") in May/June that will have a good keyboard. The MBP 16" being sold NOW already has the new keyboard, but it ain't cheap.

My choice: 2018 Mac Mini i7. Got it from the Apple refurbished store.

@Fishrrman

I’m a Mac fan girl myself.

[roamer_1]

Sorry the whole thing has gone south for you. It really sucks when the sales people mislead you on the capabilities of the product they're trying to sell. It would seem quite unlikely that the actual hardware refresh rate of the display is a software upgrade.

I don't know about that, @DB .

I DO know that RAM is often soft-limited. I actually found two laptop mb that were identical in two different brands... one was cheap, and limited to 4g, while the other was a decent mid-range model.

That 4g one? ALL I did was blow the bios from the other one into it, and viola! 16g limit!

So COULD THEY soft limit vid? yeah. all it would take is to flash the vid with a different ID tag, and then it will take a different driver. Limit the driver, and suddenly you've got a cheaper vid.

[DB]

I don't know about that, @DB .

I DO know that RAM is often soft-limited. I actually found two laptop mb that were identical in two different brands... one was cheap, and limited to 4g, while the other was a decent mid-range model.

That 4g one? ALL I did was blow the bios from the other one into it, and viola! 16g limit!

So COULD THEY soft limit vid? yeah. all it would take is to flash the vid with a different ID tag, and then it will take a different driver. Limit the driver, and suddenly you've got a cheaper vid.

Possible, but a higher refresh panel/controller is significantly higher hardware cost.

[sneakypete]

Possible, but a higher refresh panel/controller is significantly higher hardware cost.

@roamer_1

@DB

Going from 60Hz to 144Hz on the laptop I bought was a $100 option.

[roamer_1]

Possible, but a higher refresh panel/controller is significantly higher hardware cost.

Not at volume... Modern industry likes the idea of making one thing and being able to limit  it for various price points. Shoot, look at windows itself - Same installer for all versions... Same install. All that makes the difference between home, pro, etc., is the product key.

[DB]

@roamer_1

@DB

Going from 60Hz to 144Hz on the laptop I bought was a $100 option.

Yep, about 10% of the laptop price.

[DB]

Not at volume... Modern industry likes the idea of making one thing and being able to limit  it for various price points. Shoot, look at windows itself - Same installer for all versions... Same install. All that makes the difference between home, pro, etc., is the product key.

Hardware and software are different, especially in low margin highly competitive markets.

[Snarknado]

Amazon today has some daily deals on gaming laptops, but nothing that provides much encouragement for you to get everything you want at the price you're looking for.