Democrats unveil articles of impeachment against Trump

[libertybele]

@Cyber Liberty
@libertybele

Section 1505. Obstruction of proceedings before departments, agencies, and committees
18 U.S. Code § 1505.Obstruction of proceedings before departments, agencies, and committees
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1505

I am not a lawyer or Constitutional scholar (such as Levin or Cruz) but this seems to have to do with "civil" proceedings, not government...again, just my opinion.

By definition Contempt of Congress is the act of obstructing the work of the United States Congress or one of its committees. Historically, the bribery of a U.S. Senator or U.S. Representative was considered contempt of Congress.


Again, how did President Trump obstruct the work of Congress or one of its committees???   Secondly, he didn't "bribe" as U.S. Senator or U.S. Representative, if so, who did he bribe?  Incidentally, the DEMS tried to prove bribery but could not, so they switched their 'charge' to abuse of power.  What abuse of power? 

Ok ... researching a little further ... it would appear that IF the White House has refused to comply with a subpoena then it may be considered an obstruction of Congress and they could file a 'civil lawsuit?  However, a sitting President cannot be charged with a crime (per Alan Dershowitz).

Please forward this information to Levin and perhaps he can digest all of this and shed his knowledge and opinion on all of this.

[roamer_1]

@roamer_1
@TomSea 

Well, if the Senate trial convicted Trump, he would be replaced with Pence.  Either way, it is Pence.  He would be President until a new President was elected in 2020.  I know this sounds strange, but Pence could enter the 2020 race and win the Presidency.  I have to look this up to be sure how it would happen.  There are deadlines to sign up and not sure how Pence would get on the ballots in time for the election.

@Victoria33
That is a possibility - If the RINOS intend that, I do not know how they could pull it off... Already they are too far behind the curve to make a primary happen... So no, I think they are forced to leave him in place. From the Dem POV, if he is entering the election with an impeachment (which I believe will be the case), they have weakened him greatly, and can tub-thump about the corrupt Republicans leaving him in office... And that is about what I expect.

This is all about advantage.

[Hoodat]

Well, if the Senate trial convicted Trump, he would be replaced with Pence.

And Pence could pick Trump to be his VP right before he resigns.

[libertybele]

And Pence could pick Trump to be his VP right before he resigns.

I'm not quite sure if Trump is removed from office that Pence could appoint him to the VP slot as he has been removed from that office. 

[Formerly Once-Ler]

And Pence could pick Trump to be his VP right before he resigns.

I saw that on a Bugs Bunny cartoon once.

[Victoria33]

@Victoria33
That is a possibility - If the RINOS intend that, I do not know how they could pull it off... Already they are too far behind the curve to make a primary happen... So no, I think they are forced to leave him in place. From the Dem POV, if he is entering the election with an impeachment (which I believe will be the case), they have weakened him greatly, and can tub-thump about the corrupt Republicans leaving him in office... And that is about what I expect.   This is all about advantage.

@roamer_1

I agree, "Impeached Trump" Democrat signs won't look good for Trump during the campaign.  I will read the 8 or 9 pages describing the charges against him, plus the Judicial Committee presents the charges in public tomorrow evening.  Have to find out what that entails. Will do these things now.  Will send you the details of Obstruction of Congress.  His obstruction was refusing to give records to congress and telling government workers not to go testify even though they had received subpoenas to testify.   

[Hoodat]

I'm not quite sure if Trump is removed from office that Pence could appoint him to the VP slot as he has been removed from that office.

Article 1, Section 3

Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law (unless you happen to be a Democrat like Alcee Hastings).

[Hoodat]

I saw that on a Bugs Bunny cartoon once.

So did I.  It was then same one where refusing to help Congress impeach a President became an impeachable offense.

Meanwhile, how is the war against Eastasia going?

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Article 1, Section 3

Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law (unless you happen to be a Democrat like Alcee Hastings).

That does sound different than the office of VP.

[Hoodat]

Section 4 of the 25th amendment should be used to remove him from office.

What to you indicates that "the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office"?  Because from what I see, Trump has never slowed down.  He continues to act in his capacity as commander-in-chief, head of state, and chief officer of the executive branch.  In fact, there is no indication whatsoever that Trump is unable to fulfill his duty as President.  Which is why I am so curious to find out why you think is unable to do so.  Or is this simply a pathetic grasp for anything that can be used to subvert the will of the States?

[roamer_1]

@roamer_1

I agree, "Impeached Trump" Democrat signs won't look good for Trump during the campaign.  I will read the 8 or 9 pages describing the charges against him, plus the Judicial Committee presents the charges in public tomorrow evening.  Have to find out what that entails. Will do these things now.  Will send you the details of Obstruction of Congress.  His obstruction was refusing to give records to congress and telling government workers not to go testify even though they had received subpoenas to testify.   

Thanks @Victoria33 , but I am not all that interested. The whole deal is claptrap and bullcrap... So it really doesn't matter. The critical path lies in the result, and that can only go a few ways.

Inevitably, I don't think that is going to end up with Pence, who would probably nominate VP Cruz - As much a dream ticket as could be desired... And about the only thing that would put out the Tumpster fire in the wake of Tump's removal. But that Conservative administration is the last thing the RINOS will want, and will stick w/Tump... Unless they are still under the illusion that they could use the advantage to ramrod Bush or the like in there...

So no, they will not let it go that way... Unless the liberal Republicans bolt and join the dems... That would force the removal and leave the Pubbies up sh*t creek w/o a paddle.

Like I said, not likely. They will be forced to retain Tump... Probably with a moderate VP in the deal for 2020 if they can make hay.

[Hoodat]

That does sound different than the office of VP.

Certainly.  Especially when you consider what Joe Biden said.  "It's easy being vice president — you don't have to do anything."

[Formerly Once-Ler]

So did I.  It was then same one where refusing to help Congress impeach a President became an impeachable offense.

Meanwhile, how is the war against Eastasia going?

It's the one where Bugs says "They don't have to impeach you now." and Daffy says "I SAY THEY DO HAVE TO IMPEACH ME NOW!"

[Victoria33]

@roamer_1
@TomSea
@Cyber Liberty
@Once-Ler

Again, this law specifically speaks to Obstruction of Congress:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1505

Here are the 9 pages of the "Articles of Impeachment" of Donald Trump.
These pages explain in detail each of the two articles of impeachment.
1.  Abuse of Power details.
2.  Obstruction of Congress details.  The House is the sole method of Impeachment and Trump defied this committee its power to carry out their responsibility.  These are all the ways he refused to give over documents and told people not to testify even though they had legal subpoenas from the Intelligence Committee.  All people are listed that he would not let testify.

Read these documents and you will know the specific charges against Trump.

https://judiciary.house.gov/sites/democrats.judiciary.house.gov/files/documents/Articles%20of%20Impeachment.pdf

[roamer_1]

Again, this law specifically speaks to Obstruction of Congress:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1505

Here are the 9 pages of the "Articles of Impeachment" of Donald Trump.
These pages explain in detail each of the two articles of impeachment.
1.  Abuse of Power details.
2.  Obstruction of Congress details.  The House is the sole method of Impeachment and Trump defied this committee its power to carry out their responsibility.  These are all the ways he refused to give over documents and told people not to testify even though they had legal subpoenas from the Intelligence Committee.  All people are listed that he would not let testify.

Read these documents and you will know the specific charges against Trump.

https://judiciary.house.gov/sites/democrats.judiciary.house.gov/files/documents/Articles%20of%20Impeachment.pdf

@Victoria33
Like I said, I don't really care.  This is a numbers game, and if the House dems have the numbers, the charges, nor the veracity of the charges will matter a whit. So how this particular sausage is made doesn't matter.

I think impeachment is a forgone conclusion, though the numbers are shaky yet.
What will matter is the result, no matter how craven or justified.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Read these documents and you will know the specific charges against Trump.

[Victoria33]

@roamer_1
@TomSea
@Cyber Liberty
@Once-Ler

"The Congressional committee on Judiciary will hold public hearing on the two articles of impeachment on Wednesday and Thursday."

"While no timeline has been set for a vote on the articles of impeachment, a final vote by the House, wherein the Democrats enjoy a majority, could be taken up as early as next week."

[Victoria33]

And Pence could pick Trump to be his VP right before he resigns.

@Hoodat

If a President is convicted in the Senate, he cannot hold any government office after that - none.

[Hoodat]

@Hoodat

If a President is convicted in the Senate, he cannot hold any government office after that - none.

Just like Alcee Hastings.

[Hoodat]

@roamer_1
@TomSea
@Cyber Liberty
@Once-Ler

"The Congressional committee on Judiciary will hold public hearing on the two articles of impeachment on Wednesday and Thursday."

Will they interview any witnesses with firsthand knowledge of the case this time?  Or will they again call forth more Dem donors to pontificate about what an impeachable offense is, with zero relevance to what President Trump actually did.

[Smokin Joe]

Obstruction of Congress??? Exactly what is that and how did President Trump obstruct Congress??

When he took away their junket privileges and made them catch military flights or fly commercial without the country paying for their entourage a la Moochelle.

[truth_seeker]

I expect Trump to remain in office until he steps down (unlikely) or is voted out (who knows)...sad how few Briefers understand what impeachment means.

Please honor us by  giving us yoor vast stores on wisdom and experience regarding impeachment.

@Once-Ler You were what, 8 years old when Nixon was NOT impeached, by the way. Therefore leaving your sole basis for talking down to us, Bill Clinton,  the blue dress,  "deep throat Lewinsky," perjury, disbarment, etc.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Please honor us by  giving us yoor vast stores on wisdom and experience regarding impeachment.

@Once-Ler You were what, 8 years old when Nixon was NOT impeached, by the way. Therefore leaving your sole basis for talking down to us, Bill Clinton,  the blue dress,  "deep throat Lewinsky," perjury, disbarment, etc.

I apologize for talking down to @libertybele .  I get frustrated by willful, and I suspect disingenuous, ignorance. 
 

By the end of next week President Trump will become the fastest impeached President, and the only first term elected President to be impeached in history.
and all because he deserves it.

Thank you for your opinion, and with that being stated are you looking forward to a President Pence or perhaps a President Pelosi then?

[Snarknado]

I've been mocking the laughable "obstruction" charge, but I see now that it's an intentionally frivolous throwaway to give vulnerable dems some cover to vote against one and make their vote for the other seem more reasonable.

[Cyber Liberty]

I've been mocking the laughable "obstruction" charge, but I see now that it's an intentionally frivolous throwaway to give vulnerable dems some cover to vote against one and make their vote for the other seem more reasonable.

Any port in a storm.