Author Topic: People 'unaccounted for' after volcano erupts in New Zealand  (Read 1729 times)

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Offline TomSea

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People 'unaccounted for' after volcano erupts in New Zealand
« on: December 09, 2019, 03:55:08 am »
Quote
People 'unaccounted for' after volcano erupts in New Zealand

A volcano has erupted in New Zealand with 100 people in the vicinity - leaving some unaccounted for, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has said.

More at: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-50708727?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbcnews&ocid=socialflow_twitter

Offline mountaineer

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Re: People 'unaccounted for' after volcano erupts in New Zealand
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2019, 12:59:18 pm »
New Zealand volcano eruption leaves at least five dead
By Ben Westcott, Julia Hollingsworth, Jessie Yeung and Steve George, CNN
Updated 7:48 a.m. ET, December 9, 2019

What we're covering here:

    *Volcanic eruption: New Zealand authorities are conducting search and rescue operations on White Island, off the North Island coast, after a volcano erupted on Monday afternoon local time.
    *Casualties: At least five people have been confirmed dead, and authorities have warned that they don't believe there are any survivors on the island.
    *Missing tourists: Fewer than 50 people are believed to have been on or near the volcano when it erupted, including around 30 passengers from a Royal Caribbean cruise. A total of 23 people were rescued from the island -- including the five who died. At least 10 people are still missing, police said.  ...


More at CNN, including video
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Offline mountaineer

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Re: People 'unaccounted for' after volcano erupts in New Zealand
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2019, 01:02:28 pm »

Before the eruption

More from USA Today, which noted on Twitter:
Quote
USA TODAY   @USATODAY
3h
There will be questions asked as to why tourists were still able to visit the island after scientists recently noted an uptick in volcanic activity.
4:08 AM · Dec 9, 2019

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Re: People 'unaccounted for' after volcano erupts in New Zealand
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2019, 01:34:39 pm »
A total of 23 people were rescued from the island -- including the five who died.

Rescuing dead people. Nice.
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Offline Gefn

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Re: People 'unaccounted for' after volcano erupts in New Zealand
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2019, 02:46:33 pm »
A total of 23 people were rescued from the island -- including the five who died.

Rescuing dead people. Nice.

Well, their families might want to give them “proper” funerals. Not that you really ever get “closure” from death.
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Offline thackney

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Re: People 'unaccounted for' after volcano erupts in New Zealand
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2019, 02:49:58 pm »
Well, their families might want to give them “proper” funerals. Not that you really ever get “closure” from death.

You recover bodies and rescue live people.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rescue
transitive verb
: to free from confinement, danger, or evil

Tough to be free from danger if you are already dead.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2019, 02:53:03 pm by thackney »
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Re: People 'unaccounted for' after volcano erupts in New Zealand
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2019, 07:31:49 pm »
You recover bodies and rescue live people.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rescue
transitive verb
: to free from confinement, danger, or evil

Tough to be free from danger if you are already dead.
Well maybe they were democrats? Live or dead they're still voters to democrats.

In seriousness, condolences to the families of those who lost their lives and may they have a brief respite from the lawyers clamoring to make a buck off the dead.


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Re: People 'unaccounted for' after volcano erupts in New Zealand
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2019, 08:00:19 pm »
From what I saw on the news this morning, tourist were actually standing in the cone when it erupted. 

I'd venture that there will be some victims who sadly won't be recovered.
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Re: People 'unaccounted for' after volcano erupts in New Zealand
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2019, 11:45:05 pm »
You recover bodies and rescue live people.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rescue
transitive verb
: to free from confinement, danger, or evil

Tough to be free from danger if you are already dead.

@Gefn

I wasn't trying to make light of the dead and injured.

I get tired of crappy "journalism". Thanks for the explanation, @thackney
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Offline mountaineer

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Re: People 'unaccounted for' after volcano erupts in New Zealand
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2019, 02:29:19 pm »
6 dead from New Zealand volcano as helpers describe horror
By NICK PERRY
today
Quote
WHAKATANE, New Zealand (AP) — Survivors of a powerful volcanic eruption in New Zealand ran into the sea to escape the scalding steam and ash and emerged covered in burns, say those who first helped them.

The accounts Tuesday came as some relatives were forced to continue waiting for news of their loved ones, with authorities deciding it remained too dangerous for crews to land on the island and remove bodies.

Six deaths were confirmed after Monday’s eruption of the White Island volcano. Five people died at the time of the blast or soon after, while a sixth person died Tuesday night at an Auckland hospital. ...

In all, police believe there were 47 visitors on the island at the time. They say 24 were Australian, nine were American and five were New Zealanders. Others were from Germany, Britain, China and Malaysia. Many were passengers aboard the Royal Caribbean cruise ship Ovation of the Seas.

About 30 of the survivors remained hospitalized on Tuesday, many flown to burn units around the country. ...
Full story at AP
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Offline TomSea

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Re: People 'unaccounted for' after volcano erupts in New Zealand
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2019, 01:11:12 am »
You know everyone, there is a big controversy about why the tourists were so close to the volcano. Were there indications something would happen?  I guess, with volcanoes, sometimes they can detect that it will become active. I'm sure some people here know this. Sometimes but not all the time.

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Re: People 'unaccounted for' after volcano erupts in New Zealand
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2019, 07:01:15 am »
You know everyone, there is a big controversy about why the tourists were so close to the volcano. Were there indications something would happen?  I guess, with volcanoes, sometimes they can detect that it will become active. I'm sure some people here know this. Sometimes but not all the time.
Apparently there were no measurable (or, at least measured) indications that an eruption was imminent. Comments in the news feeds said the island seemed pretty much normal, albeit a little smokier.

Perhaps the indicators were sufficiently subtle that they were not noticed nor heeded, but predicting an eruption comes from long term observation, and it is doubtful that tourists have that sort of data.
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Offline jafo2010

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Re: People 'unaccounted for' after volcano erupts in New Zealand
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2019, 08:38:53 am »
Going near a volcano emitting anything in my humble opinion is foolish.  They are completely unpredictable.  And when they erupt, they are very deadly.  Folks with their desire for adventure should think twice on volcanoes.

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Re: People 'unaccounted for' after volcano erupts in New Zealand
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2019, 12:04:07 pm »
@Gefn

I wasn't trying to make light of the dead and injured.

I get tired of crappy "journalism". Thanks for the explanation, @thackney

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Re: People 'unaccounted for' after volcano erupts in New Zealand
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2019, 12:10:56 pm »
Risky effort set to retrieve bodies from New Zealand volcano island

Updated on: December 12, 2019 / 5:41 AM

Whakatane, New Zealand — A team of eight New Zealand military specialists will land on a small volcanic island just after first light Friday to attempt to retrieve the bodies of eight victims of an eruption that claimed eight other lives. New Zealand police said late Thursday the recovery attempt would go ahead even though scientists believe another eruption is possible on White Island. Steam and mud are emitting from its active vents and volcanic tremors are rising, volcanologists said.

Nine Americans were among those wounded when the volcano erupted on Monday, and more than 20 people remained hospitalized with severe burns on Thursday. CBS News correspondent Ramy Inocencio said that four days after the eruption, the planned recovery operation has offered family members a glimmer of hope. While White Island remained highly volatile, officials were hopeful that it would quiet down enough to recover the bodies of those who didn't make it out.

The continuing volcanic activity has delayed the recovery of the last victims since Monday's deadly eruption, which occurred as 47 tourists from Australia, New Zealand the U.S. and Europe were exploring the island. In addition to the bodies left on the island, eight other people were killed and dozens were severely burned by the blast of scalding steam and ash. 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/new-zealand-volvano-white-island-eruption-risky-effort-set-retrieve-bodies/
« Last Edit: December 12, 2019, 12:12:17 pm by Gefn »
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Re: People 'unaccounted for' after volcano erupts in New Zealand
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2019, 12:13:13 pm »
Risky effort set to retrieve bodies from New Zealand volcano island

Updated on: December 12, 2019 / 5:41 AM

Whakatane, New Zealand — A team of eight New Zealand military specialists will land on a small volcanic island just after first light Friday to attempt to retrieve the bodies of eight victims of an eruption that claimed eight other lives. New Zealand police said late Thursday the recovery attempt would go ahead even though scientists believe another eruption is possible on White Island. Steam and mud are emitting from its active vents and volcanic tremors are rising, volcanologists said.

Nine Americans were among those wounded when the volcano erupted on Monday, and more than 20 people remained hospitalized with severe burns on Thursday. CBS News correspondent Ramy Inocencio said that four days after the eruption, the planned recovery operation has offered family members a glimmer of hope. While White Island remained highly volatile, officials were hopeful that it would quiet down enough to recover the bodies of those who didn't make it out.

The continuing volcanic activity has delayed the recovery of the last victims since Monday's deadly eruption, which occurred as 47 tourists from Australia, New Zealand the U.S. and Europe were exploring the island. In addition to the bodies left on the island, eight other people were killed and dozens were severely burned by the blast of scalding steam and ash. 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/new-zealand-volvano-white-island-eruption-risky-effort-set-retrieve-bodies/


Article halfway down talks about skin grafts. Pretty icky.
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Offline thackney

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Re: People 'unaccounted for' after volcano erupts in New Zealand
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2019, 12:20:13 pm »
Apparently there were no measurable (or, at least measured) indications that an eruption was imminent. Comments in the news feeds said the island seemed pretty much normal, albeit a little smokier.

Perhaps the indicators were sufficiently subtle that they were not noticed nor heeded, but predicting an eruption comes from long term observation, and it is doubtful that tourists have that sort of data.

@Smokin Joe @TomSea

It smoked, steamed and roared - then blew up: Terrifying warning signs New Zealand's White Island volcano was about to erupt - as it's revealed 24 Australians are caught in the carnage
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7771185/The-terrifying-warning-signs-New-Zealands-White-Island-volcano-erupt.html

...'It showed increased activity for the last few weeks and so we raised the alert level,' GeoNet Project Director Dr Ken Gledhill told a press conference on Monday afternoon.

'It has quietened down, but we can't be certain there won't be another eruption in the next 24 hours.'...

- - - - - - - - -

What scientists say about the volcano
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/12/10/942023/whaakari-white-island-what-scientists-say#

...Increased alert level before the eruption

In mid-November, the alert level lifted to 2.

At the time, GNS volcanologist Michael Rosenburg said there had been an increase of sulphur gas from deep inside the volcano and an increase in tremors.

He said the changes may or may not be a signal that something is happening.

"White Island volcano is really complicated and just because one thing changes, it doesn't necessarily mean that everything else will change and it doesn't necessarily mean that this is going to lead to an eruption."

Dr Sherburn said GNS had seen increased seismic activity - specifically volcanic tremor - over the past month or so....
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Offline TomSea

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Re: People 'unaccounted for' after volcano erupts in New Zealand
« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2019, 12:42:42 pm »
@thackney  Thank you.

BTW, a volcano in Sicily, Mt. Etna just blew up as well, scant coverage of it in the news. I don't believe it put anyone's lives in danger.

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Re: People 'unaccounted for' after volcano erupts in New Zealand
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2019, 08:57:19 pm »
@thackney  Thank you.

BTW, a volcano in Sicily, Mt. Etna just blew up as well, scant coverage of it in the news. I don't believe it put anyone's lives in danger.
Apparently Etna has been in a constant state of eruption for years and since it is up at summit craters they don't consider it high risk.

https://www.volcanodiscovery.com/etna/current-activity.html

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Re: People 'unaccounted for' after volcano erupts in New Zealand
« Reply #19 on: December 13, 2019, 12:13:30 am »
@Smokin Joe @TomSea

It smoked, steamed and roared - then blew up: Terrifying warning signs New Zealand's White Island volcano was about to erupt - as it's revealed 24 Australians are caught in the carnage
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7771185/The-terrifying-warning-signs-New-Zealands-White-Island-volcano-erupt.html

...'It showed increased activity for the last few weeks and so we raised the alert level,' GeoNet Project Director Dr Ken Gledhill told a press conference on Monday afternoon.

'It has quietened down, but we can't be certain there won't be another eruption in the next 24 hours.'...

- - - - - - - - -

What scientists say about the volcano
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/12/10/942023/whaakari-white-island-what-scientists-say#

...Increased alert level before the eruption

In mid-November, the alert level lifted to 2.

At the time, GNS volcanologist Michael Rosenburg said there had been an increase of sulphur gas from deep inside the volcano and an increase in tremors.

He said the changes may or may not be a signal that something is happening.

"White Island volcano is really complicated and just because one thing changes, it doesn't necessarily mean that everything else will change and it doesn't necessarily mean that this is going to lead to an eruption."

Dr Sherburn said GNS had seen increased seismic activity - specifically volcanic tremor - over the past month or so....
[/quote]Such data are almost always examined in retrospect, saying it was clear...
It's never clear that an eruption will happen at any given time or date until it is happening.
Otherwise, even though risk classifications may be elevated (part science, and part CYA):
Quote
He said the changes may or may not be a signal that something is happening.
That's done for a reason, of course, just the same as with earthquakes.

For one thing, it's honest. (You really can't know when, just that it looks like it could, unless, of course, it is erupting.)

If it fails to happen, you're the boy who cried "Wolf!", who, if you will recall, ended up getting eaten by the very thing he warned about, albeit with a long history of false alarms.
 
In addition, there might be a host of nasty things from such a false alarm, when the comfort of an attempt to keep people safe is overwhelmed by the notion that a lot of money didn't change hands. After all, the threat of apocalyptic destruction, even on a small scale, is bad for business.

It is a quandry that has plagued seismologists and volcanologists for some time, now. You even see the conflict between people's safety and economic concerns played out in the movies.
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Re: People 'unaccounted for' after volcano erupts in New Zealand
« Reply #20 on: December 13, 2019, 12:35:52 am »
@GtHawk @Smokin Joe @thackney @TomSea

Note to self: The next time I visit an active volcano, take the wolf with me.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: People 'unaccounted for' after volcano erupts in New Zealand
« Reply #21 on: December 13, 2019, 06:46:33 am »
@GtHawk @Smokin Joe @thackney @TomSea

Note to self: The next time I visit an active volcano, take the wolf with me.
Funny thing about that Fred, the wolf has more sense than tourists, and would be the one to follow.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: People 'unaccounted for' after volcano erupts in New Zealand
« Reply #22 on: December 13, 2019, 10:27:55 pm »
Going near a volcano emitting anything in my humble opinion is foolish.  They are completely unpredictable.  And when they erupt, they are very deadly.  Folks with their desire for adventure should think twice on volcanoes.
All volcanoes are not alike, although any can cause harm and some should be more avoided for sure than others.

The composite variety tend to explode violently and emit pyroclastic flows of hot ash.

A shield volcano like Kilauea tend to do just flow lava and less likely to explode.

All volcanoes emit gas which can be deadly.

Remember that when visiting Yellowstone's geysers and mudholes.  These are produced by the same mechanism that produces a volcano.

My brother living in Australia unfortunately knew one survivor who happened to be in this New Zealand eruption.

She was lifted out and is in a coma.  When she wakes, she will learn her husband and daughter are both dead from the blast.
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Re: People 'unaccounted for' after volcano erupts in New Zealand
« Reply #23 on: December 13, 2019, 10:40:27 pm »
Risk verses reward.

Reward far too low.

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Re: People 'unaccounted for' after volcano erupts in New Zealand
« Reply #24 on: December 14, 2019, 01:50:05 am »
Risk verses reward.

Reward far too low.

A Darwin Award is worth the risk.... @DeerSlayer
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley