Author Topic: Trump takes aim at trickle-down toilets, faucets  (Read 1970 times)

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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Trump takes aim at trickle-down toilets, faucets
« Reply #50 on: December 08, 2019, 04:36:45 pm »
@Smokin Joe
An interesting supposition... At my grampas place down in KS the out house was back behind the garage, and the path thereto ran alongside the garage between that and a large hedgerow of lilacs... present to this day.  I never made that connection, but you are probably right.

That is quite easy to see out on the long abandoned homesteads around here... The herb beds are long gone, but the propagation of the plants that were once in them is evident.

Equally easy to detect are old native sites. One of my lady friends is a foraging expert, and she and I met because she wanted to go to places where certain plants grew together, seeking those old native gardens out. I can't remember all of it, but Devil's Paintbrush was one of them.
I think there is a whole branch of botannical archaeology yet to be done out there.
One of the large coulees near here had assemblages of edible plants in more or less discrete patches, all the way up the coulee. No matter when you came through there, from June (early summer around here) to the fall, there was something to eat in the way of berries, fruit, or greens (and 'indian turnips'). I would guess that most such sites that haven't been obliterated go unrecognized.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Trump takes aim at trickle-down toilets, faucets
« Reply #51 on: December 08, 2019, 04:50:29 pm »
I think there is a whole branch of botannical archaeology yet to be done out there.
One of the large coulees near here had assemblages of edible plants in more or less discrete patches, all the way up the coulee. No matter when you came through there, from June (early summer around here) to the fall, there was something to eat in the way of berries, fruit, or greens (and 'indian turnips'). I would guess that most such sites that haven't been obliterated go unrecognized.

Yeah, it's a thing. Though I have a problem finding foraging women that are thus minded... A lot of them are witchy, and if not that, granola head hippie types. Outside of the natives, it's kinda a craps shoot. Hilljillys have a notion, but they are about the same as natives anyhow, and neither are prone to conversation outside of their kind. So that information will have a hard time getting to the college types.

I seen a thing a while back on the TV about trees that, when they were saplings were bent to point in a direction, showing the way to native things through the forest. Of course those trees are now a hundred years old, and remarkably twisted... But they can still be followed, them that survive.

I have seen the like up in the forest, and it never occurred to me what they were.


Online Lando Lincoln

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Re: Trump takes aim at trickle-down toilets, faucets
« Reply #52 on: December 08, 2019, 05:19:14 pm »
@Smokin Joe @roamer_1

Fascinating stuff guys.  Way back when I was a pup, I took a "filler" course in topomorphology or something like that.  Professor was geeky but super passionate about how pioneer homesteading morphed the land.  I wish I could remember all the things I "learned".

Anyway, as for our place, my grandparents bought the place in 1917 and it is in a glacial moraine area.  Lots of steep hills, kettles and rocky soil.  There are large swaths of lilac and phlox flowers growing around where the buildings were.  Never thought of the privies but it makes sense.  There is a completely unkempt stand of plum trees and "wild" raspberries are everywhere.  Horseradish grows abundantly where my grandmother had her garden.  Everywhere is a rock pile or fence with some of the larger ones being split.  All were moved by hand or horse.  You can be deep in the timber and come across similar rock fence rows and piles. 

The farmhouse burned to the ground in 1947.  The barn came down while trying to salvage the roof to make a cabin.  All the hand hewned timbers were used in the building of our little place back in 1970.  My grandparents had 14 kids, 12 made it to adulthood.  To round out the story, I was grandchild 42 of 64. 
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Trump takes aim at trickle-down toilets, faucets
« Reply #53 on: December 08, 2019, 06:23:23 pm »
@Smokin Joe @roamer_1

Fascinating stuff guys.  Way back when I was a pup, I took a "filler" course in topomorphology or something like that.  Professor was geeky but super passionate about how pioneer homesteading morphed the land.  I wish I could remember all the things I "learned".

Anyway, as for our place, my grandparents bought the place in 1917 and it is in a glacial moraine area.  Lots of steep hills, kettles and rocky soil.  There are large swaths of lilac and phlox flowers growing around where the buildings were.  Never thought of the privies but it makes sense.  There is a completely unkempt stand of plum trees and "wild" raspberries are everywhere.  Horseradish grows abundantly where my grandmother had her garden.  Everywhere is a rock pile or fence with some of the larger ones being split.  All were moved by hand or horse.  You can be deep in the timber and come across similar rock fence rows and piles. 

The farmhouse burned to the ground in 1947.  The barn came down while trying to salvage the roof to make a cabin.  All the hand hewned timbers were used in the building of our little place back in 1970.  My grandparents had 14 kids, 12 made it to adulthood.  To round out the story, I was grandchild 42 of 64.

What a terrific story @Lando Lincoln !

I wish I could say as much. Having an abiding tie to the land is a wonderful thing.
Can't say as much, nor many around here... The boreal forest is not prone to leaving much that lasts... With wood in abundance, most of the clearing went to jack fences and cabins or outbuildings - none of which last, as we do not possess much in hardwoods. And with such abundance in timber, stone fences are nearly nonexistent, and even stone foundations are rare.

The valley floor here was established in the late 1800's and most of that has been laid over several times by now - Not much remains. And the outlying areas were largely established later, as logging cleared land that could be pasture. And at that, horse logging could not hardly make a dent, so real development off the valley floor is far later. And in that, the terrain demands locality in the hollers which usually have streams, and nothing much stays put there, due to floods, avalanches, and fire.

Sure, you can find rock mounds where a long lost pasture was cleared, and a dump here and there where old bottles can be found... Now and then a forlorn old cast iron stove sitting in the middle of nowhere... But more or less, there ain't much left from 100 years ago.

I know of a handful of trapper's cabins that have survived, but believe it or not, trappers are rather transient, so there ain't much there, even if it did last this long.

As to the botanicals, I have a keen interest. I can do a whole lot in bushcraft, knowing my way around hunting and trapping... I can make cordage any number of ways, and fashion what I need out of the land with nothing more than your average long-walker would have in his kit. And I am fair at forage, but don't hold a candle to a wise native or hilljilly woman.

And that learning comes hard, as no native or hillbilly man is going to take kindly to another man stepping out with his woman into the forest. Best I can do is try to locate a widow woman with the wisdom and the want-to.

I can live up there long enough to 'go native', but not indefinitely - And the thing I lack in that regard is the foraging skills in the botanical (food and meds) area. And some of that is in lost migratory patterns, and in those lost native camps, where for ages, they traversed the land and laid up stores accordingly in the way of food forests and gardens. And all that is very tough to find.

@Smokin Joe

Offline berdie

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Re: Trump takes aim at trickle-down toilets, faucets
« Reply #54 on: December 08, 2019, 10:27:04 pm »

I seen a thing a while back on the TV about trees that, when they were saplings were bent to point in a direction, showing the way to native things through the forest. Of course those trees are now a hundred years old, and remarkably twisted... But they can still be followed, them that survive.

I have seen the like up in the forest, and it never occurred to me what they were.


At the back of my property (which was at one time Indian land) I had a tree that grew along the ground. I was told that it was a "road sign" back in the day.
Sadly, it died. I had to have it cut up. The guy that did the cutting begged me for the wood. I complied but kept one small piece for myself...as a momento.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Trump takes aim at trickle-down toilets, faucets
« Reply #55 on: December 09, 2019, 01:01:52 pm »
@roamer_1 @Lando Lincoln
Where I grew up in MD on land that has been in the family since the 1600s, there were few large rocks, and the oaks I grew up shaded by were planted by an ancestor just shy of 200 years ago. Boundaries were marked by large ditches, and the remnants of one was just north of the house I lived in as a child, built in the 1950s. We used it a a trench playing 'army' as kids, and other remnants exist in the region, many of which are now obscured by yet another growth of pine woods or agriculture. Natural waterways were also boundaries, and fairly stable in the tidewater, at least between major storms. When I revisit the area, I can see changes, but those have occurred over decades, although hurricanes and major storms can alter a shoreline in a weekend.
As for edible/medicinal wild plants, there was a blackberry patch or two I recall from my youth, and I recall a boxwood over at a manor across the creek, (at the site of the manor house there) ripped from the ground by developers, that was likely 350+ years old. Few of the trees in the orchard had survived around the old manor house on either side, and the outbuildings had long fallen to hurricanes, vandals, scrounging fro lumber, and invasion. (Yes, MD was invaded by union troops, less than 50 years after the British came ashore and sacked Washington). While the stables were long gone, there was a priest's hole that had a tunnel from the house to the stables my mom and uncles played in as children.
The old barns (pre war--"civil" war--had mortise and tenon joints in the beams, and the major framing elements were pegged together. I spent many summers filling them with hay bales, and recall two being burned to the ground one Halloween. Mutterings of "spontaneous combustion" were squelched by the house sized shed in between that suffered no ill effects: the buildings collapsed within a few minutes o each other, not a fire that spread from one to another, but simultaneous arson. The offenders were never caught.

The tobacco barns were from later, built by my grandfather in the (19)30s, of trees cleared from the land and cut in his sawmill. In a humid and temperate climate, insects can destroy untreated wood structures fairly fast, and those barns did not survive with the exception of one preserved as an historical curiosity. When the time came to harvest that crop, it was all hands on deck, and as I grew older, I progressed from dropping sticks to spearing tobacco plants onto those sticks, to loading them onto the cart and unloading them, to cutting tobacco, and finally, to hanging it in the barn to cure. In MD we air cured the plants, rather than heat cure them, and the entire plant would be cut, speared at the base in groups of four to six plants on a stick, the stick placed between tier poles in the barn and the plants left to hang there until cured.
When that was done, the plants were removed from the sticks and the leaves stripped off the stalks by grade (bright leaf, dark leaf, and 'tips') and bundled, the bundles stacked on large baskets and shipped to the tobacco auctions where the crop was sold.  The once commonplace sight of truckloads of tobacco thus packed going to market is gone, and with it the innumerable stoop labor jobs that taught kids the value of hard work, and provided a paycheck for many between the fish runs of the early summer, crabbing, and oyster season in the fall, not to mention the elder fellows who would sit about and strip the tobacco in early winter. Since early colonial times, when tobacco was literally used as money, and as acceptable as silver, the crop was important in the colonial and later economy.
I would find it fascinating to cover that area with LIDAR scans and see what remnants of the old colonial era drainage systems exist. I know there are foundations left from the later structures, the old oyster packing house, the Hotel, stores, and numerous homes and cottages destroyed by hurricanes in the 50s and earlier, or burned through arson or happenstance, and there was an air warden tower there as well during WWII to scan the Potomac for enemy planes and even vessels during the war.
And there is always the possibility that some prehistoric features (earthworks) may be present as well. Projectile points and other artifacts we found as kids go back some 3000 years in age, there may be more there than meets the casual eye.

One plant that did grow wild in abundance was Poison Ivy--vines I recall that looked like small trees. It was the bane of my youth, and remains a significant deterrent to scrounging around in much of the area down there.

Here and now, 2000 miles and decades away, there are still swathes of relatively undisturbed prairie that would similarly yield information on habitation sites and who knows what else not obliterated in the last glaciation.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Trump takes aim at trickle-down toilets, faucets
« Reply #56 on: December 09, 2019, 03:40:35 pm »
What you fellas need is the Commando 450!

https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=-9XrXfXaMNfA0PEPwcuyeA&q=commando+450&oq=commando+450&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0l4j0i22i30l5.583.3560..4875...0.0..2.583.2407.2j5j1j1j1j1......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i131.dIHcEkhVQ1I&ved=0ahUKEwi1xIWP_aPmAhVXIDQIHcGlDA8Q4dUDCAg&uact=5

Isn't that for washing circus elephants?

@Mesaclone

Hyperbole aside, Trump has a valid point here with both toilets and incandescent bulbs.  We have an older home, and LED bulbs flicker on a few lights no matter what we do.  Called an electrician, and he said we'd either have to re-wire everything, or use incandescent bulbs for those particular lights.

The central planners in Washington really don't know what's best for everyone else.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Trump takes aim at trickle-down toilets, faucets
« Reply #57 on: December 09, 2019, 03:48:28 pm »
Hyperbole aside, Trump has a valid point here with both toilets and incandescent bulbs.  We have an older home, and LED bulbs flicker on a few lights no matter what we do.  Called an electrician, and he said we'd either have to re-wire everything, or use incandescent bulbs for those particular lights.

The central planners in Washington really don't know what's best for everyone else.

@Maj. Bill Martin
Nothing, and I DO mean *NOTHING* epitomizes this sentiment like the very symbol thereof:



There is not a finer example of useless (utterly useless) environmental dingbattery in all the land.

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Re: Trump takes aim at trickle-down toilets, faucets
« Reply #58 on: December 09, 2019, 03:50:35 pm »
@Maj. Bill Martin
Nothing, and I DO mean *NOTHING* epitomizes this sentiment like the very symbol thereof:



There is not a finer example of useless (utterly useless) environmental dingbattery in all the land.

Is that a gasoline jug cap?
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Trump takes aim at trickle-down toilets, faucets
« Reply #59 on: December 09, 2019, 03:52:29 pm »
Is that a gasoline jug cap?

No, that is a damn lie.

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Trump takes aim at trickle-down toilets, faucets
« Reply #60 on: December 09, 2019, 03:57:30 pm »
@Maj. Bill Martin
Nothing, and I DO mean *NOTHING* epitomizes this sentiment like the very symbol thereof:



There is not a finer example of useless (utterly useless) environmental dingbattery in all the land.

Right -- those environmentally-conscious gas spouts that pretty much guarantee you'll be spilling gas all over the outside of your lawnmower/trimmer/snowblower.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Trump takes aim at trickle-down toilets, faucets
« Reply #61 on: December 09, 2019, 04:13:37 pm »
One plant that did grow wild in abundance was Poison Ivy--vines I recall that looked like small trees. It was the bane of my youth, and remains a significant deterrent to scrounging around in much of the area down there.

@Smokin Joe
Ahh, there is a smell, almost an instinct, deep in my brain, that has to do with walking barefoot in deep maple/oak debris, silent and forgiving, slow muddy water, poison oak and poison ivy, red carp, catfish and bullfrogs, cottonmouth and copperhead.... lightning bugs, and somehow, roasted pumpkin seeds at the ballfield...

I been triggered.

Someday, I might like to walk those broad leaf forests again, and try walking off there... So very different, yet somehow a thing I know. It'd probably kill me. I'd be lost in the first half hour.
 

Online mountaineer

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Re: Trump takes aim at trickle-down toilets, faucets
« Reply #62 on: December 09, 2019, 04:13:52 pm »
Don't get me started on those gas can spouts. What a royal pain in the rear.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Trump takes aim at trickle-down toilets, faucets
« Reply #63 on: December 09, 2019, 04:34:31 pm »
Isn't that for washing circus elephants?

@Mesaclone

Hyperbole aside, Trump has a valid point here with both toilets and incandescent bulbs.  We have an older home, and LED bulbs flicker on a few lights no matter what we do.  Called an electrician, and he said we'd either have to re-wire everything, or use incandescent bulbs for those particular lights.

The central planners in Washington really don't know what's best for everyone else.

@Maj. Bill Martin

 Not trying to be a wise-ass,but if the wiring is that old chances are it has fabric wrapping it,and if it were me,I would take that as a serious hint that "NOW!" is a good time to rewire it and put in a circuit-breaker box.

House fires are very,VERY inconvenient.
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Online Lando Lincoln

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Re: Trump takes aim at trickle-down toilets, faucets
« Reply #64 on: December 09, 2019, 04:50:14 pm »
@roamer_1 @Lando Lincoln
Where I grew up in MD on land that has been in the family since the 1600s...

Great history @Smokin Joe.  Thanks - I really enjoyed that.

As a societal note, too many of us of forgetting who we are; that the patchwork fabric of where we came from makes us strong and resilient.  With each new generation, too many are losing who we were - even being dismissive of it.  This is to our collective peril.

I have enjoyed the discourse.  Beginning with the modest, little outdoor john.

@roamer_1
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Trump takes aim at trickle-down toilets, faucets
« Reply #65 on: December 09, 2019, 04:51:56 pm »
[...] or use incandescent bulbs for those particular lights.


By the way @Maj. Bill Martin , do you have trouble getting at incandescent bulbs? I hear tell that is the case in places.  Not so here - They're all I use, and still readily available... Cannot stand them new-fangled bulbs. The light off of them is weirdly blue to me, even the soft-light 'yellow' ones.


Offline roamer_1

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Re: Trump takes aim at trickle-down toilets, faucets
« Reply #66 on: December 09, 2019, 04:59:45 pm »
Great history @Smokin Joe.  Thanks - I really enjoyed that.

[...]

I have enjoyed the discourse.  Beginning with the modest, little outdoor john.


@Lando Lincoln @Smokin Joe

Me too! Very much so!

Quote
As a societal note, too many of us of forgetting who we are; that the patchwork fabric of where we came from makes us strong and resilient.  With each new generation, too many are losing who we were - even being dismissive of it.  This is to our collective peril.

No truer words... Those who rely too heavily on society and advancement will pay a heavy toll in the end. Hard times will come, and the system will fail - They always do.

And I am afraid for those who are so very absorbed therein.

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Trump takes aim at trickle-down toilets, faucets
« Reply #67 on: December 09, 2019, 05:07:11 pm »
@Maj. Bill Martin

 Not trying to be a wise-ass,but if the wiring is that old chances are it has fabric wrapping it,and if it were me,I would take that as a serious hint that "NOW!" is a good time to rewire it and put in a circuit-breaker box.

House fires are very,VERY inconvenient.

We do have a modern breaker box.  But what you're describing would literally mean tearing out the walls to install all new wiring.  Not going to do that.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Trump takes aim at trickle-down toilets, faucets
« Reply #68 on: December 09, 2019, 05:20:39 pm »
We do have a modern breaker box.  But what you're describing would literally mean tearing out the walls to install all new wiring.  Not going to do that.

@Maj. Bill Martin

Not really. You can run the new wires through conduit held to the interior walls with clamps and screws. Same with the rececptacles and switch boxes.

May not look cool,but beats the HELL out of a short and fire beginning between your walls,and it sure is quick and easy to do.

BTW,I have heard of disconnecting everything each line is ran on,and then pulling it out of the walls and pulling in the new wiring at the same time by splicing it and the old wiring together.

If it were me,I would just go with the conduit,though. Simpler,and quicker.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2019, 05:24:13 pm by sneakypete »
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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Trump takes aim at trickle-down toilets, faucets
« Reply #69 on: December 09, 2019, 05:23:46 pm »
@Maj. Bill Martin
You can run the new wires through conduit held to the interior walls with clamps and screws. Same with the rececptacles and switch boxes.

May not look cool...

Don't know if you're married, but Mrs. Martin would not take very kindly to that. 

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Trump takes aim at trickle-down toilets, faucets
« Reply #70 on: December 09, 2019, 05:26:53 pm »
Don't know if you're married, but Mrs. Martin would not take very kindly to that.

@Maj. Bill Martin

She likes house fires better? You must have good insurance.

BTW,I added an alternative to my original post. Go back and read it.
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Trump takes aim at trickle-down toilets, faucets
« Reply #71 on: December 09, 2019, 10:18:00 pm »

At the back of my property (which was at one time Indian land) I had a tree that grew along the ground. I was told that it was a "road sign" back in the day.
Sadly, it died. I had to have it cut up. The guy that did the cutting begged me for the wood. I complied but kept one small piece for myself...as a momento.

Heh. Sorry @berdie , I just found this...

YEP... That's the sort of thing exactly.
I know where there are two weird trees on two different trails, but when I stopped to think about it, them two trees are in-line. When I get my legs back to working right again, it's on my short list of things to go find out where them trees are pointing to.

 :beer:

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Trump takes aim at trickle-down toilets, faucets
« Reply #72 on: December 10, 2019, 04:14:44 am »
Don't get me started on those gas can spouts. What a royal pain in the rear.
You aren't supposed to sit on them.  :shrug: :whistle:
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Trump takes aim at trickle-down toilets, faucets
« Reply #73 on: December 10, 2019, 05:37:46 am »
You aren't supposed to sit on them.  :shrug: :whistle:


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Re: Trump takes aim at trickle-down toilets, faucets
« Reply #74 on: December 10, 2019, 01:54:34 pm »
You aren't supposed to sit on them.  :shrug: :whistle:
Now they tell me.
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