Author Topic: Texas judge warned over refusal to perform same-sex marriages  (Read 4538 times)

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Online Hoodat

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Re: Texas judge warned over refusal to perform same-sex marriages
« Reply #75 on: December 06, 2019, 02:21:01 am »
@Hoodat

If that were true,you would be on the opposite side of this argument.

My argument is purely a legal one.  Your argument is about religion and sexual preference.  So in regard to your comment, I am on neither side of the argument you are making.


The ONLY argument against homo marriages is a religious one.

I have offered no opinion on "homo marriages".  There is absolutely nothing in any argument I have made that involves sexual preference.  It simply  is not a concern of mine.  My only concern is my right as a member of my society to have a voice in how my society chooses to shape itself.  Just as the citizens of Vermont had when they established their marriage law.  It is exactly how our Founding Fathers thought when they wrote our Constitution and Bill of Rights.


Nobody else gives a damn one way or the other,unless it might be to wise more homos got married because they just aren't suffering enough as singles.

Sorry, I'm not seeing how that comment has anything at all to do with my position on written law.
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Online sneakypete

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Re: Texas judge warned over refusal to perform same-sex marriages
« Reply #76 on: December 06, 2019, 07:55:15 am »



Quote
I have offered no opinion on "homo marriages".  There is absolutely nothing in any argument I have made that involves sexual preference.  It simply  is not a concern of mine.


@Hoodat

ROMLMAO!  Bullshit squared is still bullshit. 

Quote
My only concern is my right as a member of my society to have a voice in how my society chooses to shape itself.


WOW! You even threw in a little "superiority dance" for extra Bonus Points!

 

 
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Online Hoodat

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Re: Texas judge warned over refusal to perform same-sex marriages
« Reply #77 on: December 06, 2019, 04:44:57 pm »
@sneakypete

You are flat out wrong here.  Your assumptions about me are based solely upon your bigoted mindset and have no basis in fact.  I challenge you to review my entire posting history to see if you can find a single post where I stated an opinion on "homo marriage".  I find the term itself highly derogatory.  It is a term only a bigot would use.

Still, I encourage you to review my posts.  Because only then would it be possible for truth to penetrate your wrong-headedness.  Only then would it be possible to realize that your accusations to not only be baseless, but in very poor taste.  Only then would you see that my arguments center solely on the legalities here. 

In the absence of any action by our Federal Legislature, the people of the State of Vermont are entirely within their right to formulate their State laws regarding marriage through their State Legislature or statewide ballot.  And in that endeavor, they have my blessing.  Likewise, the people of California are entirely within their right to formulate their State laws regarding marriage through their Legislature or statewide referendum.  This is how our Founding Fathers intended it.  This is why Madison included the Tenth Amendment in the Bill of Rights.  and this is why I have a huge problem with a tyrannical Federal Judiciary (with zero written legal basis) denying my right as a citizen of Georgia to have my State represent the will of society - a right guaranteed under the Bill of Rights.

I place my faith in my fellow members of society to shape our society for the greater good.  And no one from Pennsylvania, Vermont, or whatever state you are from should be able to preempt your will on us and deny us our Constitutional right.  Capisce?
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Texas judge warned over refusal to perform same-sex marriages
« Reply #78 on: December 06, 2019, 05:24:04 pm »
The point of the Federal Constitution is to check the States with respect to their attempts to deny our fundamental, individual liberties.    And among the most fundamental is the guarantee of the law's equal protection, even in the face of a majority motivated by superstition or fear.

Case closed.   
« Last Edit: December 06, 2019, 05:25:54 pm by Jazzhead »
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Texas judge warned over refusal to perform same-sex marriages
« Reply #79 on: December 06, 2019, 05:30:48 pm »
The point of the Federal Constitution is to check the States with respect to their attempts to deny our fundamental, individual liberties.    And among the most fundamental is the guarantee of the law's equal protection, even in the face of a majority motivated by superstition or fear.

Case closed.   
Bullshit.

What about the fundamental liberty to decide what sort of society you want to live in? Government has no just power, except through the permission of the governed, and the governed have, time and again, said they wished the institution of marriage to remain between one man and one woman.

It is the top down tyranny of judges which has imposed the alleged "law' you wave about and demand equal protection for.

Next thing, cannibalism will be upheld as a dietary choice. (The envirowhackos have already suggested it!)

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Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

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Online Hoodat

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Re: Texas judge warned over refusal to perform same-sex marriages
« Reply #80 on: December 06, 2019, 05:36:38 pm »
The point of the Federal Constitution is to check the States with respect to their attempts to deny our fundamental, individual liberties.

There you go again tossing out the term "Federal Constitution" as if it the mere utterance of the term will cause the ground to shake.  I imagine your alleged law professors wouldn't fall for that, and neither will I.  So again, show me the exact wording of said "Federal Constitution" which denies the State of Texas from defining its own marriage sanction.


And among the most fundamental is the guarantee of the law's equal protection   

Equal protection already applies here.  But then you knew that already.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Texas judge warned over refusal to perform same-sex marriages
« Reply #81 on: December 06, 2019, 06:26:21 pm »
The point of the Federal Constitution is to check the States with respect to their attempts to deny our fundamental, individual liberties.    And among the most fundamental is the guarantee of the law's equal protection, even in the face of a majority motivated by superstition or fear.

Case closed.   
About as wrong as wrong can be.  States are sovereign.  The Federal Government is not, as evidenced by the ability contained within the Constitution that 3/4 of the states can change it at any time they choose.

The Federal Constitution was drafted in order for sovereign states to support each other in very specific and defined activities such as military defense and international endeavors.

The supposed guarantees you speak of you view in only a single direction, not equal as you state, which means liberty for some but not for all.

No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Texas judge warned over refusal to perform same-sex marriages
« Reply #82 on: December 06, 2019, 06:48:28 pm »
Equal protection already applies here.  But then you knew that already.

Of course it doesn't.  A restriction of civil marriage to opposite sex couples effectively prohibits homosexuals from marrying.  Note the word "effectively."  Your bullspit argument is that gays are perfectly free to marry - so long as they marry a spouse of the opposite sex.   But homosexuals aren't attracted to the opposite sex.   Let's say Texas limited civil marriage to same sex couples.  Would you be fine with that, and go out and marry a guy?    Or would you then finally recognize the idiocy of your "legal" argument?   
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Texas judge warned over refusal to perform same-sex marriages
« Reply #83 on: December 06, 2019, 06:57:21 pm »
About as wrong as wrong can be.  States are sovereign.  The Federal Government is not, as evidenced by the ability contained within the Constitution that 3/4 of the states can change it at any time they choose.

The Federal Constitution was drafted in order for sovereign states to support each other in very specific and defined activities such as military defense and international endeavors.

The supposed guarantees you speak of you view in only a single direction, not equal as you state, which means liberty for some but not for all.

The States have agreed to cede a portion of their sovereignty in accordance with the Federal Constitution.   The same Constitution that prohibits Pennsylvania from taking my gun rights away prohibits Texas from denying its citizens their right to marry.   

What amazes me is the situational ethics of some "conservatives".    You are all in favor of mobs and tyrannical majorities when it comes to denying those you disfavor of their rights.   But what is at issue - or should be for a conservative - is the Constitution's guarantee against tyrannical majorities of our natural and inalienable rights as INDIVIDUALs.   

You don't want your INDIVIDUAL right to defend your home and family to be denied by gun grabbers, do you?.  Good - you're thinking like a conservative.    But at the same time you want the basic rights of homosexuals to be denied in favor of your majoritarian clamor to impose your "Christian" values on their private behavior.  Suddenly you don't resemble much of a conservative anymore.     
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Online Hoodat

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Re: Texas judge warned over refusal to perform same-sex marriages
« Reply #84 on: December 06, 2019, 07:36:01 pm »
Of course it doesn't.  A restriction of civil marriage to opposite sex couples effectively prohibits homosexuals from marrying.

Nope.  There is nothing in that statute that prohibits homosexuals from marrying.  You simply made that up.


Note the word "effectively."

Noted.  It allows you to deviate from the actual facts and make claims of discrimination where none exist.  It is no different than claiming equal protection violation when the food stamp program is ended because it discriminates against people too lazy to work.  But the bottom line here (which you well know) is that there is no reference to sexual preference in the Texas Constitution.  The State will not sanction a marriage between two people of the same gender regardless of what their sexual preference is.  Likewise, the State will not sanction a marriage between more than two people, again regardless of sexual preference.  It is clear, concise, and it applies equally to everyone.


Your bullspit argument is that gays are perfectly free to marry - so long as they marry a spouse of the opposite sex.   But homosexuals aren't attracted to the opposite sex.

Just as polygamists aren't attracted to exclusivity with one spouse.  Nor are child molesters attracted to anyone over the age of 12.


Let's say Texas limited civil marriage to same sex couples.  Would you be fine with that

Yes, I would be fine with that.  The people of Texas should be allowed to empower their State Government to sanction whatever marriage definition they want.  It is their business.  Not yours and not mine.  See, unlike you, I do not exhibit the fascist tendency to force Texas to comply with your beliefs in direct defiance to the Constitution of the United States.

and go out and marry a guy?

No.  I would marry my wife in a covenant with G-d, with zero demand on my State to sanction it.  For the umpteenth time, I place trust in my fellow society members to shape society as we see fit, and am willing to live under whatever rules they decide.  And even more importantly, I acknowledge your right as a member of your Commonwealth to do the same.  Never would I seek to impose my will on Pennsylvania and demand that their laws conform to my dictates.  If you want same-gender marriage, polygamy, pet marriage, etc. in Pennsylvania, then more power to you.  It is your right under Amendment X.  Because you will never hear me toss out the word "Federal Constitution" (without actually citing something in it) as an excuse for imposing tyranny upon your state.


r would you then finally recognize the idiocy of your "legal" argument?

My "legal" argument is backed by the Bill of Rights (see Amendment X) and the Texas Constitution (see Article 1).  What is yours backed by?  Please be specific. 
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

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"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Texas judge warned over refusal to perform same-sex marriages
« Reply #85 on: December 06, 2019, 07:47:27 pm »
See, unlike you, I do not exhibit the fascist tendency to force Texas to comply with your beliefs in direct defiance to the Constitution of the United States.

Fascist?  Please.  You remain obsessed with the rights of tyrannical majorities.   My concern is with the fundamental and natural rights of individuals to be protected from the arbitrary whims and bigoted tendencies of such majorities. 



Quote
My "legal" argument is backed by the Bill of Rights (see Amendment X) and the Texas Constitution (see Article 1).  What is yours backed by?  Please be specific.

Amendment X is inapplicable here.   The relevant Constitutional provision is the guarantee of the law's equal protection.   That provision renders the Texas law you cite null and void as unConstitutional.
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Online Hoodat

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Re: Texas judge warned over refusal to perform same-sex marriages
« Reply #86 on: December 06, 2019, 08:09:31 pm »
Fascist?  Please.  You remain obsessed with the rights of tyrannical majorities.

No, I remain obsessed with following the Constitution of the United States of America.  In this case, specifically Amendment X.  Here it is again:

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

So yet again I ask the question.  Where does it say that the power to define marriage within a State is prohibited to that State?  Show me the exact wording.


My concern is with the fundamental and natural rights of individuals to be protected from the arbitrary whims and bigoted tendencies of such majorities.

No, your concern is to impose your will on people in States other than your own, in direct violation to the rights of the people of those States.  Because not once have I heard you rail against polygamy laws.  Not once have I heard you champion the right of a sexual predator to marry an 8-year-old.  You are quite selective in the application of your "equal protection" nonsense, demonstrating that there is nothing "equal" about it.  For you, some preferences are more equal than others.


Amendment X is inapplicable here.   The relevant Constitutional provision is the guarantee of the law's equal protection.

Equal protection already applies.  The law is applied equally to everyone, regardless of preference.  And there is nothing in any of this that prohibits polygamy marriage, under-age marriage, same-gender marriage, pet marriage, etc.  It simply is a matter of whether the State of Texas will sanction it.  And the people of the Great State of Texas have already given their voice as to what defines sanctioned marriage.  And preference was never ever ever made part of the equation.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline Bigun

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Re: Texas judge warned over refusal to perform same-sex marriages
« Reply #87 on: December 06, 2019, 08:22:28 pm »
@Jazzhead

I have no idea where you went to law school but if I were you I would be DEMANDING a refund about now.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
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Offline PeteS in CA

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Re: Texas judge warned over refusal to perform same-sex marriages
« Reply #88 on: December 06, 2019, 08:26:06 pm »
Folks, let's not go personal, mmmkay?
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Offline Bigun

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Re: Texas judge warned over refusal to perform same-sex marriages
« Reply #89 on: December 06, 2019, 08:28:06 pm »
Folks, let's not go personal, mmmkay?

Nothing personal about anything that has been said here so far as I can tell.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
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Online Hoodat

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If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline TomSea

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Re: Texas judge warned over refusal to perform same-sex marriages
« Reply #91 on: December 06, 2019, 08:33:23 pm »
Someone told me this morning that he lives in TX, the judge in TX, different one than this woman, doesn't do SSMs. And has a sign saying they do not perform marriages of any kind at the court, that kind of settles that maybe. Just anecdote, sounds true though.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2019, 08:47:10 pm by TomSea »

Offline Bigun

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Re: Texas judge warned over refusal to perform same-sex marriages
« Reply #92 on: December 06, 2019, 08:39:26 pm »
You should have arrived earlier for that.

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,384471.msg2105643.html#msg2105643

I stand corrected @Hoodat.  It appears that you were personally attacked.

Attn: @Mod 3
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline PeteS in CA

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Re: Texas judge warned over refusal to perform same-sex marriages
« Reply #93 on: December 06, 2019, 08:45:00 pm »
You should have arrived earlier for that.

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,384471.msg2105643.html#msg2105643

I had not been following the thread, you are correct. It occurred to me a bit ago, though, that the thread had grown to an uncommon degree and there might be some personal stuff creeping in. Late or timely, please discuss ideas rather than each other.
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Texas judge warned over refusal to perform same-sex marriages
« Reply #94 on: December 07, 2019, 12:06:09 am »
The States have agreed to cede a portion of their sovereignty in accordance with the Federal Constitution.   The same Constitution that prohibits Pennsylvania from taking my gun rights away prohibits Texas from denying its citizens their right to marry.   

What amazes me is the situational ethics of some "conservatives".    You are all in favor of mobs and tyrannical majorities when it comes to denying those you disfavor of their rights.   But what is at issue - or should be for a conservative - is the Constitution's guarantee against tyrannical majorities of our natural and inalienable rights as INDIVIDUALs.   

You don't want your INDIVIDUAL right to defend your home and family to be denied by gun grabbers, do you?.  Good - you're thinking like a conservative.    But at the same time you want the basic rights of homosexuals to be denied in favor of your majoritarian clamor to impose your "Christian" values on their private behavior.  Suddenly you don't resemble much of a conservative anymore.   
You see only what you wish to see.

What you wish to see is the divergence of 100% of all governmental officials into essentially atheists as those with religious beliefs are forced out by your edicts to adhere to actions which are in violation of those beliefs.

This is not freedom.  It is servitude to the government, which our Founders wholeheartedly rejected when they formed this great country.

The promulgations of Christianity and God directing our country are many in this country's founding.  You should read up on some of this country's history.  To attempt to transform it into a pure secular country is in violation of our establishment and will most certainly destroy it.

And the bit about the Constitution you lead with.  The one on gun rights is specified unequivocally in that document.
I note you have nothing specific in the same document on the right for same sex marriage, as @Hoodat has asked many times.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline Idiot

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Re: Texas judge warned over refusal to perform same-sex marriages
« Reply #95 on: December 09, 2019, 04:21:34 pm »
@Jazzhead

We are both wasting our time trying to get people to see reason who worship a mythical creature whose followers have created their own laws the mythical creature is said to demand they follow .
God, who created heaven and earth...and even you, will NOT be blasphemed by you.  It's easy for you to talk big now...I pray you have a change of heart as I wouldn't want to fall into the hands of an angry God on judgement day.

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Re: Texas judge warned over refusal to perform same-sex marriages
« Reply #96 on: December 09, 2019, 05:11:45 pm »
God, who created heaven and earth...and even you, will NOT be blasphemed by you.  It's easy for you to talk big now...I pray you have a change of heart as I wouldn't want to fall into the hands of an angry God on judgement day.

@mrpotatohead

You saying The Big Guy has anger control issues?

Where is all that "turn the other cheek" stuff?
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Offline PeteS in CA

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Re: Texas judge warned over refusal to perform same-sex marriages
« Reply #97 on: December 09, 2019, 06:28:53 pm »
Please discuss the thread topic, not each other.
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Texas judge warned over refusal to perform same-sex marriages
« Reply #98 on: December 19, 2019, 12:35:52 am »
She decided to not take this lightly.  This just might result in a warning to stop the persecution of our religious freedoms.
Waco judge sues state agency after receiving public warning for refusing to officiate same-sex marriages
https://tylerpaper.com/news/texas/waco-judge-sues-state-agency-after-receiving-public-warning-for/article_d6609882-2146-11ea-895d-9b26431daa4f.html
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington