Author Topic: 75th Anniversary of The Battle of Leyte Gulf  (Read 1116 times)

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Offline Elderberry

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75th Anniversary of The Battle of Leyte Gulf
« on: October 25, 2019, 12:12:08 am »
Lawrence Person's BattleSwarm Blog 10/24/2019

Yesterday marked the 75th Anniversary of the start of the Battle of Leyte Gulf, the last great naval battle of World War II, and arguably the largest naval battle in history. American naval forces (with help from Australia’s Task Force 74) decisively defeated the Japanese Imperial Navy, sinking four aircraft carriers, three battleships, six heavy cruisers and four light cruisers.

Leyte Gulf was a sprawling naval engagement that took place in roughly four areas around the Philippines October 23-26, 1944. The Battle of the Surigao Strait featured the last battleship-on-battleship engagement in history, where overwhelming American firepower sunk two Japanese battleships and caused the rest to turn back. One of the most decisive actions was The Battle Off Samar, in which two American ships, destroyer escort USS Samuel B. Roberts (laid down in Houston shipyards) and destroyer USS Johnston, carried out some of the greatest badassery in American naval history, attacking a much larger and heavier armed force of Japanese battleships and cruisers in order to screen the retreat of six escort carriers.

They sank three Japanese cruisers, disabled another three, and caused the Japanese battleships to turn tail and run, ensuring the successful American invasion of the Philippines and destruction of Japan’s access to vitally needed war materials.

More: https://www.battleswarmblog.com/?p=42359

Offline PeteS in CA

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Re: 75th Anniversary of The Battle of Leyte Gulf
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2019, 02:41:13 pm »
This webpage gives an idea of the scope of the naval battles/engagements in the campaign, http://combinedfleet.com/battles/Leyte_Campaign . And, of course, there was the invasion of the island of Leyte itself.

US naval forces were Task Force 58 - the fast carriers and their supporting ships - and the Seventh Fleet which supplied bombardment and close air support. IJN forces were a massive battleship and cruiser group that steamed from Borneo, the IJN's carrier group, which steamed from Japan, and a sort of small stray cruiser group that came from the Formosa (= Taiwan) area. The IJN carriers had few planes, their 3/4-trained air groups having been thrown into and shot down defending against an assault by TF58 on Formosa.

Some have denounced the invasion of the Philippines as a MacArthur ego trip. The effort Japan put into defending the Philippines should suffice to show the islands had strategic value. A look at a map of the area from Japan to SE Asia and modern Indonesia will show what that was. Japan's industrial base was in Japan. Numerous resources needed for that industrial base were in (modern) Indonesia and SE Asia. Between the resources and Japan was the Luzon Strait, between Formosa and the Philippine. While USN submarines had made that straight a dangerous area for Japanese merchant shipping, invading the Philippines neutralized Japanese air forces and the naval base at Manila Bay, while enabling US air and surface forces to all but close off the Luzon Strait. Cutting off the oil, rubber, and metals Japan needed made defending the Philippines do-or-die for Japan.

The IJN plan was simple in concept, if complex in execution. The neutered (something the US probably did not know) carrier force would lure TF58, the fast carriers and battleships out of the Leyte area, while IJN battleship and cruiser forces would enter Leyte Gulf and destroy US transports and cargo ships supporting the invasion. As carried out, the battleship/cruiser forces split into three groups. The main force, with the heavy-hitters went north of Leyte, around the north end of Samar. Two battleships plus a heavy cruiser and four destroyers split off to enter Leyte Gulf from the south, through Surigao Strait; that small cruiser group from Formosa followed them into Surigao Strait, but not close enough to give support.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2019, 02:52:43 pm by PeteS in CA »
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Offline jpsb

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Re: 75th Anniversary of The Battle of Leyte Gulf
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2019, 02:46:27 pm »
Other wise known as Admiral Halsey BIG screw up.

Offline PeteS in CA

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Re: 75th Anniversary of The Battle of Leyte Gulf
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2019, 04:55:13 pm »
Other wise known as Admiral Halsey BIG screw up.

Since Halsey (commander of the 3rd Fleet, which included TF38) probably did not know that IJN carriers basically had no air groups and the information he had about Kurita's force was that it had reversed course soon after the sinking of Musashi (and earlier loss of three heavy cruisers correction made), I don't agree. Based on the info he had, Kurita had been turned away, and Ozawa's carrier force - which included hybrid battleship-carriers Ise and Hyuga, with eight 14" guns apiece - was the oncoming threat. It is also very possible that Halsey was not informed that Kinkaid (commander of the 7th Fleet) had chosen to send all six of his battleships and all eight cruisers (3 CA, 5 CL correction made) to fight Fuso and Yamashiro at Surigao Strait (a decision that suggests that Kinkaid also believed Kurita had been driven off).
« Last Edit: October 25, 2019, 07:57:41 pm by PeteS in CA »
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Offline skeeter

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Re: 75th Anniversary of The Battle of Leyte Gulf
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2019, 05:13:03 pm »
Since Halsey (commander of the 3rd Fleet, which included TF38) probably did not know that IJN carriers basically had no air groups and the information he had about Kurita's force was that it had reversed course soon after the sinking of Musashi (and earlier loss of four heavy cruisers), I don't agree. Based on the info he had, Kurita had been turned away, and Ozawa's carrier force - which included hybrid battleship-carriers Ise and Hyuga, with eight 14" guns apiece - was the oncoming threat. It is also very possible that Halsey was not informed that Kinkaid (commander of the 7th Fleet) had chosen to send all six of his battleships and all eight cruisers (4 CA, 4 CL) to fight Fuso and Yamashiro at Surigao Strait (a decision that suggests that Kinkaid also believed Kurita had been driven off).

I wonder if it was necessary for Halsey to so aggressively pursue Ozawa as he did. Wouldn't it be possible for him to simply interpose himself between Ozawa and the 7th fleet where he could intercept any raids coming from the Northern Force yet still offer support to Kinkaid? Especially in view of the reports from US reconnaissance reporting Kurita had turned back towards the San Bernadino Strait. After all, his mission was to protect the landings.

Offline Joe Wooten

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Re: 75th Anniversary of The Battle of Leyte Gulf
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2019, 07:23:32 pm »
Other wise known as Admiral Halsey BIG screw up.

Leyte Gulf is also known as "The Battle of Bull's Run"

Offline PeteS in CA

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Re: 75th Anniversary of The Battle of Leyte Gulf
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2019, 07:39:08 pm »
I wonder if it was necessary for Halsey to so aggressively pursue Ozawa as he did. Wouldn't it be possible for him to simply interpose himself between Ozawa and the 7th fleet where he could intercept any raids coming from the Northern Force yet still offer support to Kinkaid? Especially in view of the reports from US reconnaissance reporting Kurita had turned back towards the San Bernadino Strait. After all, his mission was to protect the landings.

Even ignoring the possibility that IJN planes could land on Luzon rather than returning to their carriers (which would have extended IJN planes' combat range) Zeros and B6Ns ("Jill") had longer ranges than did F6Fs and TBFs; SB2Cs did out-range D4Ys ("Judy"). So Ozawa did not have to come within TF58's range in order to attack TF58. I believe that is what the IJN did earlier at the Marianas (where, IIRC, Spruance's orders tethered hid to the islands). Spruance's fliers decimated IJN airgroups, but the carriers (except for Taiho and Shokaku, both sunk by submarines) came back again at Leyte Gulf. Within what Halsey knew, pursuing the IJN carriers made sense; Japan could train pilots much quicker than build carriers, so sinking the carriers would do longer lasting damage to the IJN than "just" shooting down their pilots and planes.

In the Land of What If, what if Kinkaid had attached his six battleships to his escort carrier groups? We know now that Fuso was sunk and Yamashiro was seriously damaged by USN DDs' torpedo attacks. If the DDs' torpedo attacks hadn't already mission-killed Yamashiro, USN cruisers' hailstorm of 6" and 8" shells would have, and given Yamashiro's age, possibly sunk her.

Knowing what we know, Halsey's choice played into Kurita's hand. But within what Halsey knew, his choice was reasonable.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2019, 07:56:39 pm by PeteS in CA »
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Offline skeeter

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Re: 75th Anniversary of The Battle of Leyte Gulf
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2019, 07:52:00 pm »
Even ignoring the possibility that IJN planes could land on Luzon rather than returning to their carriers (which would have extended IJN planes' combat range) Zeros and B6Ns ("Jill") had longer ranges than did F6Fs and TBFs; SB2Cs did out-range D4Ys ("Judy"). So Ozawa did not have to come within TF58's range in order to attack TF58. I believe that is what the IJN did earlier at the Marianas (where, IIRC, Spruance's orders tethered hid to the islands). Spruance's fliers decimated IJN airgroups, but the carriers (except for Taiho and Shokaku, both sunk by submarines) came back again at Leyte Gulf. Within what Halsey knew, pursuing the IJN carriers made sense; Japan could train pilots much quicker than build carriers, so sinking the carriers would do longer lasting damage to the IJN than "just" shooting down their pilots and planes.

In the Land of What If, what if Kinkaid had attached his six battleships to his escort carrier groups? We know now that Fuso was sunk and Yamashiro was seriously damaged by USN DDs' torpedo attacks. If the DDs' torpedo attacks hadn't already mission-killed Yamashiro, USN cruisers hailstorm of 6" and 8" shells would have, and given Yamashiro's age, possibly sunk her.

Knowing what we know, Halsey's choice played into Kurita's hand. But within what Halsey knew, his choice was reasonable.

That is all true, as is it a fact Halsey chose wrongly.

History offers us unlimited 'what ifs'. What if the US hadn't opted for the two pronged army/navy approach to defeating Japan and instead had opted to accommodate Japan and it's Kantai Kessen strategy? No New Guinea, no Tarawa, Peleliu, Philippines campaign & their tens of thousands of casualties. Just a single thrust at the Marianas sometime in late 43 or 44, one big Mahanesque naval battle in the central Pacific and on to bombing the crap out of the homeland?




Offline PeteS in CA

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Re: 75th Anniversary of The Battle of Leyte Gulf
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2019, 07:53:06 pm »
Reverting to the battle overview on Nihon Kaigun (linked above):

The first major action (10/23) was by USN submarines, USS Dace and USS Darter. These boats had the dual duty of reporting sightings (their primary duty) and attacking if they could. In the event, they sank 2 heavy cruisers, one being Kurita's flagship, and damaging a third that had to head to Singapore for repairs (that never happened due to lack of parts).

On 10/24, knowing Kurita was coming, TF58 sent its search planes out to find him. Apparently the first group to be found and attacked was Admiral Nishimura's two battleships, cruiser, and destroyers. Minor damage was done, and with Kurita's main force being found, Nishimura was not attacked again. Once found, Kurita's force was under attack pretty much all day in the battle of the Sibuyan Sea, resulting in the sinking of Musashi (Yamato's sister ship) and lesser damage to battleships Yamato, Nagato, Cruiser Tone, and some destroyers.

In the late night of 10/24 and early morning of 10/25, in the Battle of Surigao Strait, Nishimura's battleship force steamed through waves of attacks, first PT Boat groups, then Destroyer groups attacking with torpedoes (that actually worked!), and finally gun attacks from light cruisers, heavy cruisers and battleships (some with 12X 14" guns, some with 8X 16" guns). Following about an hour behind was a cruiser force commanded by Admiral Shima. The PT Boats scored no hits on Nishimura's force, but did radio their sightings. The destroyers did, sinking Fuso and a couple of IJN destroyers, hobbling Yamashiro, and possibly damaging a cruiser and a couple more destroyers. After USN battleships and cruisers did their work, Yamashiro was sunk and the cruiser and two destroyers limped away. The PT Boats did hit a light cruiser in Shima's force, and when they arrived at the battle area, saw no point in attacking, and retreated. Several more cruisers and destroyers from the two groups were sunk by US forces during the mop-up.

In his excellent book The Battle of Surigao Strait, author Anthony Tully presents evidence that Nishimura's, like Ozawa's, force was a decoy to draw the 7th Fleet's battleships and cruisers out of Leyte Gulf. At this remove and with key people who would have known for certain having died in the battle, certainty is unlikely. By fighting Nishimura, Admiral Oldendorf's battleships and cruiser were well away from Leyte Gulf when Kurita attacked and could not be a factor.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2019, 08:23:38 pm by PeteS in CA »
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

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Offline PeteS in CA

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Re: 75th Anniversary of The Battle of Leyte Gulf
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2019, 12:33:09 am »
At the Battle off Samar, a task group of several USN escort carriers (CVEs, slow and small), destroyers (DDs), and destroyer escorts (DEs, slow and small) held off a much larger and much much more powerful force of Japanese (IJN) battleships, cruisers and destroyers. They "should" not have succeeded, but put up such a fierce fight that they disrupted the IJN formation, sank or severely damaged several IJN cruisers and battleships to the point that the Japanese thought they had fought USN cruisers and fleet carriers, and decided that it would take so long and so much fuel to regroup that the IJN force retreated (they also had no idea where Task Force 58 was!). A squad of the USN's "second team" had prevented the Japanese from destroying the transports and cargo ships supporting the US invasion of Leyte.

"Taffy 3" (T3) was the third task unit of Task Group 77.4. T3 had six escort carriers, 3 destroyers, and 4 destroyer escorts. Their job, along with "Taffies" 1 and 2, was to support the Leyte invasion troops plus protecting the group again small ships/boats, air attacks, and submarines.

Task Force 77 and the 7th Fleet believed, incorrectly, that the fleet carrier force Task Force 58 or its battleships, the never formed Task Force 34, were protecting the approaches to TF77 and TG77.4. Consequently, it was a total surprise when the dawn anti-submarine patrol TBM Avengers sighted Admiral Kurita's battleship and cruiser force. The fight shaped up with the escort carriers steaming as fast as they could away from Kurita, while their planes and supporting DDs and DEs attacked Kurita's force to impede and disrupt his force.

The mismatch was severe, and Kurita did succeed in attacking the escort carriers. In the end, Kurita sank one escort carrier, damaged more (one was sunk later by a Kamikaze), sank two DDs and a DE, damaging more. From Kurita's force, three heavy cruisers were sunk, with three more damaged, plus some damage to other ships in his force.

CVEs were originally designed to be quickly built to protect convoys in the Atlantic. Their use evolved to include hunter-killer groups hunting U-Boats, and later to provide close air support in Pacific island invasions. Their air groups were 25-30 planes, a mix of F4F Wildcats (not as good as F6Fs, but smaller and "good enough") and TBM Avengers (TBF = built by Grumman, TBM = built by General Motors) carrying torpedoes, bombs, or depth charges as needed. At their stern (a location that proved handy) they carried a single 5"/38 gun. It appears that TBM torpedoes sank two IJN cruisers, and the third was either sunk by a 5" hit from a CVE or a bomb near miss that set off the cruiser's torpedoes.

Fletcher-class destroyers, at the time, were the USN's largest DDs, well armed and robust. Their armament were five 5"/38 dual-purpose guns (suitable for anti-surface and anti-air) and two quintuple torpedo tubes (with defects fixed!). While the 5" guns could not penetrate battleship armor, they could damage superstructure, and their rate of fire with a good crew was 15 rounds a minute or faster. Between poor visibility and the volume of shell hits, it's not surprising the Japanese thought they were engaging cruisers (USN light cruisers carried twelve or fifteen 6" guns, also capable of firing a lot of shells at a fast rate). One of the IJN cruisers that was damaged had been hit by a torpedo from a DD. It was also the need to avoid torpedoes that threw Kurita's formation into confusion.

DEs were also designed to be quickly built to protect convoys and to find and attack submerged submarines. For surface engagements they had two 5"/38s and one triple torpedo tube. For this battle they were a, "You fight with what you've got," ship.

Two very big factors in this battle were weather and gunnery control. Rain squalls made visibility poor, and sometimes obscured ships entirely. Japanese radar was much less advanced than USN radar, and their gun control relied on optical sighting. Weather was a problem for the Japanese. USN CVEs and DDs, on the other hand had radar-controlled location and sighting. The results were that the DDs hit earlier, more often, and sometimes while hidden in a rain squall. While the 5" shells could not penetrate battleship armor, they could damage superstructure, including radar and communications, and kill/wound personnel.
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

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Offline PeteS in CA

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Re: 75th Anniversary of The Battle of Leyte Gulf
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2019, 05:28:19 pm »
Completing a task no one asked of me ( :cool: ) ... the Battle of Cape Engaño ...

Recapping a bit, the IJN battle plan was to use a carrier force coming from Japan to lure Halsey's fleet away from Leyte Gulf so that a major IJN surface fleet could enter the gulf and wreak havoc on the transports and cargo ships supporting the Leyte invasion. While the smaller surface fleet that tried to enter Leyte Gulf through Surigao Strait is traditionally viewed as a plan complicating pincer move, it seems possible that it had a dual purpose: to lure 7th Fleet surface elements away from the gulf; survivors, if any, to attack whatever they found in the gulf. IOW, the big picture would have been: Admiral Ozawa luring away Halsey's fleet; Nishimura luring away Oldendorf's battleships and cruisers; Kurita free to wreak havoc without opposing battleships, cruisers, and fleet carriers.

Bait or pincer, Oldendorf's battleships and cruisers blocked and sank Nishimura's much smaller battleship force. Believing Kurita had reversed course and was heading for home, Halsey took Ozawa's bait. In reality, Kurita had reversed course temporarily to regroup and make the last part of his run for Leyte Gulf in darkness (whether or not he knew it, Kurita was out of range of US land-based recon, and USN night carrier operations were yet in the future).

So, what was Ozawa's bait? Ozawa's force was centered on fleet carrier Zuikaku (the last surviving carrier that had taken part in the PH attack) and light carriers Zuiho, Chitose, and Chiyoda. Also in his force were Ise and Hyuga, battleships whose rear turrets had been replaced with a hangar and flight deck.

Reversing the tape a bit, 8 days prior to the invasion at Leyte, Halsey's fleet attacked Japanese airbases at Formosa, to neutralize them so they could not cause problems for the Leyte invasion. The Japanese mistook this for an invasion and took the 3/4-trained airgroups from IJN carriers and threw them into that battle. Being under-trained, losses were heavy. As a consequence, Ozawa's carriers had almost nothing in the way of airgroups. It is very possible that the USN - and therefore Halsey - was unaware that Ozawa posed no air threat. Regardless of what was known in that respect, it was understood that it is quicker to train pilots than it is to build an aircraft carrier. So Ozawa's carriers had significant value beyond whatever planes they brought into battle.

With that lengthy prelude ... Halsey knew Ozawa was coming in a carrier force. So while most of his airgroups were attacking Kurita in the Battle of the Sibuyan Sea, he also had search planes north of his fleet looking for Ozawa, and toward the end of the day Ozawa was found. Thinking Kurita was heading for home, Halsey took Ozawa's bait and took his whole force toward Ozawa. During the night Halsey sent his battleships and cruisers a couple miles ahead of his carriers. This had several purposes: they would be a gauntlet any IJN planes or surface forces would have to run; they would have a head start toward mopping up damaged IJN ships in the aftermath of the many waves of air attacks.

The battle is pretty easily described. A pre-dawn search located Ozawa. Once it was known where to go, wave after wave of air attacks - all day long - sank Zuikaku, Zuiho, and Chitose, and crippled Chiyoda. While urgent radio messages regarding the Battle off Samar started being broadcast fairly early in the morning, word seems not to have reached Halsey for some time. Consequently it was around 11:15 that Halsey had his force turn around, but then his destroyers had to be refueled. A small cruiser group was sent toward Ozawa's devastated force, which sank Chiyoda. After the refueling, Halsey's force was too late to participate at Samar (though not knowing where Halsey was probably influenced Kurita's decision to retreat), just sinking a destroyer straggler.

Was Halsey's northward move a mistake? It is widely condemned as such, though generally in light of what Halsey did not know. The information Halsey had as things were happening showed Kurita in retreat and Ozawa's force was probably not known to be de-fanged. IMO, Halsey was aggressive, but not foolishly so, and was not aware he was pursuing a decoy. In light of the research by Anthony Tully, presented in his book The Battle of Surigao Strait, it seem likely that Kinkaid, commander of the 7th Fleet, also sent Oldendorf after a decoy force led by Nishimura.

So, how to sum up? The USN lost a couple of escort carriers, with a couple more damaged. A light carrier was lost to a Kamikaze, and a light cruiser attempting to assist had heavy casualties when ordnance on the carrier baked off. A couple of destroyers a destroyer escort were lost while defending the escort carriers. Another destroyer was heavily damaged at Surigao Strait.

The IJN lost one of their largest and newest battleships plus two old battleships (a perfect gambit, too potent to ignore but the least potent among the IJN's battleships). The IJN lost its last fleet carrier and three light carriers. In the major engagements and mop-up the IJN lost several heavy and light cruisers and several destroyers.

In ships and men, the IJN was the big loser. On a strategic level the Imperial Japanese Navy was reduced to a few major elements, but could hardly be called a fleet or a navy. Similarly, Leyte and the Philippines were more than so many square miles of land. By controlling the Philippines the US effectively blockaded the Luzon Strait, cutting off the industrial base in the Japanese home islands from many raw materials those industries needed. This, in turn, allowed many USN submarines that had patrolled the strait to be concentrated around the Japanese home islands.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2019, 06:09:23 pm by PeteS in CA »
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.