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Author Topic: Gordon Sondland says Giuliani pushed Ukraine probes at Trump’s direction  (Read 696 times)

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Offline Chosen Daughter

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Gordon Sondland says Giuliani pushed Ukraine probes at Trump’s direction
« on: October 18, 2019, 10:12:36 pm »
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Gordon Sondland says Giuliani pushed Ukraine probes at Trump’s direction
Trump’s EU ambassador told House investigators he opposed the president’s request to run Ukraine policy through Rudy Giuliani.

By ANDREW DESIDERIO and KYLE CHENEY
10/17/2019 09:30 AM EDT
Updated: 10/17/2019 11:11 PM EDT

Gordon Sondland, the U.S. ambassador to the European Union, bolstered Democrats' impeachment inquiry Thursday as he broke sharply from President Donald Trump in testimony before House investigators.

During nearly nine hours of testimony, Sondland said he reluctantly indulged what he described as the president’s efforts to run Ukraine policy through his personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani. He indicated that he opposed Trump’s orders to reach out to Giuliani, who was pushing the Ukrainian government to investigate Trump’s political rivals.............

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/17/gordon-sondland-to-break-from-trump-in-impeachment-testimony-000288

I don't think Rudy is looking like the hero that he said he would be.  The article also mention an acknowledgment from Mick Mulvaney about freezing critical military aid to the Ukraine unless they investigated the "server" theory.
 

« Last Edit: October 18, 2019, 10:13:24 pm by Chosen Daughter »
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AG William Barr: "I'm recused from that matter because one of the law firms that represented Epstein long ago was a firm that I subsequently joined for a period of time."

Alexander Acosta Labor Secretary resigned under pressure concerning his "sweetheart deal" with Jeffrey Epstein.  He was under consideration for AG after Sessions was removed, but was forced to resign instead.

Offline skeeter

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Re: Gordon Sondland says Giuliani pushed Ukraine probes at Trump’s direction
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2019, 10:32:28 pm »
Obviously many do not want trump to investigate the attempted coup but I’m really glad he is.

And not only is Giuliani an accomplished prosecutor, he’s as entertaining as hell.
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Offline Mesaclone

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Re: Gordon Sondland says Giuliani pushed Ukraine probes at Trump’s direction
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2019, 10:45:08 pm »
I don't get it. What is the "there" there?

There was corruption in Ukraine in 2016 that was meant to effect the 2016 US Election in favor of the Dems. This corruption was likely linked to a larger, if not seminal, operation targeted at allowing the Obama admin to bug the Trump campaign and set up a post election insurance policy/smear (if Trump were to win). The President asked his personal attorney and the Attorney General to investigate...on separate tracks...and he asked Ukraine's new leadership to  investigate and to cooperate with AG Barr. All of this fell under the guidance of a previous anti-corruption agreement between the two nations.

Why is any of that a problem?
« Last Edit: October 18, 2019, 10:46:02 pm by Mesaclone »
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Offline Chosen Daughter

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Re: Gordon Sondland says Giuliani pushed Ukraine probes at Trump’s direction
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2019, 12:05:50 am »
Quote from: Mesaclone on October 18, 2019, 10:45:08 pm
I don't get it. What is the "there" there?

There was corruption in Ukraine in 2016 that was meant to effect the 2016 US Election in favor of the Dems. This corruption was likely linked to a larger, if not seminal, operation targeted at allowing the Obama admin to bug the Trump campaign and set up a post election insurance policy/smear (if Trump were to win). The President asked his personal attorney and the Attorney General to investigate...on separate tracks...and he asked Ukraine's new leadership to  investigate and to cooperate with AG Barr. All of this fell under the guidance of a previous anti-corruption agreement between the two nations.

Why is any of that a problem?

Well maybe you could agree with this.  I do.  They are two separate investigations/requests and there is nothing wrong with AG Barr investigating but what happened with Giuliani does seem very inappropriate.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/robertrobb/2019/10/04/focus-rudy-giuliani-not-william-barr-trump-ukraine-call/3856111002/
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AG William Barr: "I'm recused from that matter because one of the law firms that represented Epstein long ago was a firm that I subsequently joined for a period of time."

Alexander Acosta Labor Secretary resigned under pressure concerning his "sweetheart deal" with Jeffrey Epstein.  He was under consideration for AG after Sessions was removed, but was forced to resign instead.

Offline Mesaclone

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Re: Gordon Sondland says Giuliani pushed Ukraine probes at Trump’s direction
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2019, 07:10:45 pm »
Quote from: Chosen Daughter on October 19, 2019, 12:05:50 am
Well maybe you could agree with this.  I do.  They are two separate investigations/requests and there is nothing wrong with AG Barr investigating but what happened with Giuliani does seem very inappropriate.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/robertrobb/2019/10/04/focus-rudy-giuliani-not-william-barr-trump-ukraine-call/3856111002/

Maybe its not the greatest "political" move to do...but having a private attorney investigate corruption that was targeted at his client is eminently reasonable AND lawful. The President is allowed full privilege with his own attorney and that attorney is fully empowered to investigate any crimes, accusations, or corruption targeting his client...just as any attorney is allowed to do. There is no "there" there.
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Offline Chosen Daughter

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Re: Gordon Sondland says Giuliani pushed Ukraine probes at Trump’s direction
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2019, 07:34:19 pm »
Quote from: Mesaclone on October 19, 2019, 07:10:45 pm
Maybe its not the greatest "political" move to do...but having a private attorney investigate corruption that was targeted at his client is eminently reasonable AND lawful. The President is allowed full privilege with his own attorney and that attorney is fully empowered to investigate any crimes, accusations, or corruption targeting his client...just as any attorney is allowed to do. There is no "there" there.

I think it is important to investigate what was done.  I don't have a problem with AG Barr investigating corruption but having a personal lawyer involved in foreign policy is wrong.  There is the accusation of withholding funds to the Ukraine.  We'll see what comes out of all of this.  Gordon Sondland is said to be a supporter of President Trump.  So I highly doubt that he is giving false testimony.  We have to see whether laws were broken.

BTW, I just watched Trumps entire speech at the Dallas Rally.  I don't think that there is a media that Donald supports.  He is doing a great job at suppressing the First Amendment of the Constitution.  Freedom of press is important to keep government honest.  I am not saying that all media is honest it isn't.  But Trump is making himself the only credible source of information.  He has now even turned on FOX News.  So if he does break the laws all he has to say to his faithful following is that it is "fake news'.  I think that other dictators do that.
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AG William Barr: "I'm recused from that matter because one of the law firms that represented Epstein long ago was a firm that I subsequently joined for a period of time."

Alexander Acosta Labor Secretary resigned under pressure concerning his "sweetheart deal" with Jeffrey Epstein.  He was under consideration for AG after Sessions was removed, but was forced to resign instead.

Offline Mesaclone

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Re: Gordon Sondland says Giuliani pushed Ukraine probes at Trump’s direction
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2019, 08:54:59 pm »
Quote from: Chosen Daughter on October 19, 2019, 07:34:19 pm
I think it is important to investigate what was done.  I don't have a problem with AG Barr investigating corruption but having a personal lawyer involved in foreign policy is wrong.  There is the accusation of withholding funds to the Ukraine.  We'll see what comes out of all of this.  Gordon Sondland is said to be a supporter of President Trump.  So I highly doubt that he is giving false testimony.  We have to see whether laws were broken.

BTW, I just watched Trumps entire speech at the Dallas Rally.  I don't think that there is a media that Donald supports.  He is doing a great job at suppressing the First Amendment of the Constitution.  Freedom of press is important to keep government honest.  I am not saying that all media is honest it isn't.  But Trump is making himself the only credible source of information.  He has now even turned on FOX News.  So if he does break the laws all he has to say to his faithful following is that it is "fake news'.   I think that other dictators do that. No, dictators arrest hostile media, tap their phones and internet sources....as Obama did.

What in the hay are you talking about..."suppressing the First Amendment"? That is laughably incorrect, for God's sakes quit gobbling up the bilge spewing from CNN and THINK!

The President and everyone else in this nation are free to criticize the press all they want....THAT is the First Amendment in action. Now, when an administration...see the Obama Admin...wire taps and investigates journalists at Fox and elsewhere, THAT is a violation of the First. 

If the President believes the press is cheerleading the Left...even "colluding" with it...he is free to say so. If he believes the press has become little more than a propaganda wing of the Left...he is free to say so. What a President can't do is take legal steps to silence the press nor can he use the organs of the Federal government to unlawfully stop the press from speaking...outside of instances of libel and slander which have a tremendously high bar when it comes to political speech.   

Can you cite ONE legal action the President has taken to suppress the First Amendment rights of the press? Let me help you out and save some time...there aren't any.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2019, 08:55:48 pm by Mesaclone »
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