Hand Loading...Pros and Cons

[txradioguy]

So now that I'm inside 365 days until I retire...I've been thinking about hobbies to pick up once I have more time on my hands...one of them is hand loading my ammo.

For those here that do hand load what are the pros and cons?  Are there certain calibers that are easier than others?  Are there some calibers that it makes more sense to just go to the Gun Shop and buy a few boxes of Winchester White Box and be done with it.

I've got everything from .380 to .357 and hopefully soon....30-30.

I'm ready to be educated.

[Bigun]

So now that I'm inside 365 days until I retire...I've been thinking about hobbies to pick up once I have more time on my hands...one of them is hand loading my ammo.

For those here that do hand load what are the pros and cons?  Are there certain calibers that are easier than others?  Are there some calibers that it makes more sense to just go to the Gun Shop and buy a few boxes of Winchester White Box and be done with it.

I've got everything from .380 to .357 and hopefully soon....30-30.

I'm ready to be educated.

All depends on how much you intend to shoot.  That is the first question you need to ask and answer.  Good reloading equipment is not cheep.

[txradioguy]

All depends on how much you intend to shoot.  That is the first question you need to ask and answer.  Good reloading equipment is not cheep.

I like to shoot a lot.  Household 6 and I have talked about even becoming USCCA certified CCL instructors when I retire.  I was looking at some reloading equipment at Bass Pro Shops last weekend.  It's not cheap but it's not something I can't afford.  And I think it the very short term...the equipment would end up paying for itself.

[Bigun]

I like to shoot a lot.  Household 6 and I have talked about even becoming USCCA certified CCL instructors when I retire.  I was looking at some reloading equipment at Bass Pro Shops last weekend.  It's not cheap but it's not something I can't afford.  And I think it the very short term...the equipment would end up paying for itself.

I haven't fired a shot for hunting or practicing that wasn't handloaded in 30 years other than to test my carry ammo for proper function.

Tomorrow i'll share a few things I've learned and the equipment we are currently using if you are interested.

[txradioguy]

I haven't fired a shot for hunting or practicing that wasn't handloaded in 30 years other than to test my carry ammo for proper function.

Tomorrow i'll share a few things I've learned and the equipment we are currently using if you are interested.

VERY interested.  Thanks. 

[Smokin Joe]

I like to shoot a lot.  Household 6 and I have talked about even becoming USCCA certified CCL instructors when I retire.  I was looking at some reloading equipment at Bass Pro Shops last weekend.  It's not cheap but it's not something I can't afford.  And I think it the very short term...the equipment would end up paying for itself.

It depends on how much "a lot" is, but I'd bet that's a couple hundred rounds a week, at least.

Check out these guys: Dillon Precision If you haven't already, and I like these folks' product, too: Starline Brass

[txradioguy]

It depends on how much "a lot" is, but I'd bet that's a couple hundred rounds a week, at least.

Check out these guys: Dillon Precision If you haven't already, and I like these folks' product, too: Starline Brass

Between all the calibers I currently own it's nothing for me to go through 150-200 rounds in a range session on a Saturday.

More time on my hands after I retire will increase my time conducting range therapy.

Thanks I'll check that out.

ETA: It's not just for practice I'm thinking of getting into hand loading.  There's the very real threat of what the Progressives will do in regards to ammo when they get power again especially bulk purchases...and I want to be ready for any SHTF moments when going to the local Academy Sports and getting a couple boxes of Core-Lokt just isn't feasible

[Smokin Joe]

Between all the calibers I currently own it's nothing for me to go through 150-200 rounds in a range session on a Saturday.

More time on my hands after I retire will increase my time conducting range therapy.

Thanks I'll check that out.

ETA: It's not just for practice I'm thinking of getting into hand loading.  There's the very real threat of what the Progressives will do in regards to ammo when they get power again especially bulk purchases...and I want to be ready for any SHTF moments when going to the local Academy Sports and getting a couple boxes of Core-Lokt just isn't feasible

While a basic hand press with dies for your essential calibers is an inexpensive way to go, if you are going to go through 800-1000 or more rounds a month, consider a progressive. I don't have a Dillon, but would today if my economy was better.
You can get by relatively cheap, but it will consume more time.

At one point when some friends and I were burning through 1000 rounds of .223 a week, we'd sit down with three RCBS Rock Chuckers around a cable spool workbench and pass the round until each step was completed and we had a pile to go shooting with again, but with just one guy doing all the steps, that takes considerably more time.

If SHTF comes, I doubt I'll be doing as much practicing as making every round count, so I may not need to reload as often or as much.

[Bigun]

VERY interested.  Thanks. 

We are currently using a redding turret press like the one pictured below.



Not nearly as fast as a Dillon (I have friends who use them but not for me.) for loading pistol ammo but as accurate as any single stage press out there and far less expensive than a Dillon.  There are ways to speed up loading pistol calibers using this press as well which we can talk about later also. Edit to add: If you are only going to own one press to load everything with this is the ONLY way to go IMHO and I've used a lot of them.

Currently using Hornady Custom grade dies for all rifles and RCBS dies for pistols.

[Elderberry]

Factory ammunition is dimensioned to fit everyone's gun. Once a cartridge is fired it expands to the size of the chamber that it was fired in. Now for non-semi-autos one can resize only the neck of the cartridge to have the proper tension to hold the bullet. If the magazine permits you can seat bullets to kiss the rifling or have more clearance for hunting. You are reloading rounds customized for your particular weapon. And you can vary the amount of powder to determine the most accurate velocity in your rifle for that particular bullet. Due to barrel harmonics, the bullet's transit time through the barrel has a definite affect on accuracy. So you want to reuse your brass, sort it by mfg and weight and times reloaded. Now for automatics there must be more clearance in the reloaded cartridge than can be used for a bolt or lever action. Revolvers make it easier to save your brass. It becomes addictive to chase smaller and smaller groups. The tightest groups I've ever consistently shot was with a 7x57 Chilean Mauser Mod95. I could shoot one hole 100yd groups with it if I took the time, mostly on brass preparation. In revolvers I've loaded probably loaded over 10,000 38 Specials and a couple thousand 45LC. And a lot of other cartridges as well. I started reloading at age 14 with a Lee Loader for my first 30-30 deer rifle. And I've been an avid reloader ever since.

Now my son loads primarily for  all semi-autos. He has a Dillon Progressive reloader with plates set up for 9mm, 45ACP, .223, and .308. With those set up, he can really crank out the loaded rounds. Lately I've been using Wilson arbor press dies as I'm hooked trying for the most accuracy I can develop.

To each his own.

[sneakypete]

Depends. The first question you need to ask yourself is "Am I anal?". If the answer to that question is "yes",you are going to LOVE your new hobby.

If you shoot handguns,rifles,or shotguns competitively,you have no choice but to reload unless you are wealthy. Even then you need to reload because ammo loaded specifically to meet the chamber specification of your gun and the type of shooting you do is as important as your gun is,

If your shooting is mostly casual/fun handgun shooting,buy a cheaper turret press like a Lee,and go for it. I personally don't like consumer-grade turret presses for rifle loads because resizing the brass  on rifle rounds tends to wear them out fairly quickly,and you want precision,not slop.

If most of your rifle shooting is for hunting or fun shooting and you shoot .223 or .308,don't bother to reload. You can buy surplus ammo by the case cheaper than you can buy the components to load for those calibers. Or you could the last time I checked.

Same for 9mm handgun ammo.

I STRONGLY advise you get your hands or a current issue or two of The Shotgun News to see what is available and how much it is selling for. Don't let the name fool you. Most of the guns,parts,accessories,and reloading equipment for sale there is for rifles and handguns. Also,it's not "news". It's all about retail and wholesale ads for the shooting sports and hobbies. If you have never seen one,your jaw will drop the first time you do. I took several copies with me the last time I went to Russia,and dropped them off at Russian gun shops. Talk about jaws dropping!

But,other than The Shotgun News,nothing I wrote here matters if your answer to my first question was "Yes,I tend to be anal." You will have found a home once you start reloading,and wonder why you haven't be doing it your entire life.

[sneakypete]

Now my son loads primarily for  all semi-autos. He has a Dillon Progressive reloader with plates set up for 9mm, 45ACP, .223, and .308. With those set up, he can really crank out the loaded rounds. Lately I've been using Wilson arbor press dies as I'm hooked trying for the most accuracy I can develop.

 

@Elderberry

To ME,turret presses are for production,not obsession. I LOVE doing each individual step AS an individual step. For example, I love hand-priming because I love the ability to feel when the primer is seated in the case head pocket "just right". Same with bullet seating and crimping,and you just cant do that with a auto press.

"Just Right" should be the motto of target shooters. Even the suggestion of anything slightly less will have them shrieking in horror. Don't ask me how I know this.

[sneakypete]

If SHTF comes, I doubt I'll be doing as much practicing as making every round count, so I may not need to reload as often or as much.

@Smokin Joe

Yes,but reloadable empty cases will be as good as cash.

I never bothered to reload .223 or .308 because I was always able to buy surplus cases cheaper than I could buy the components to reload them. The trick was to find somebody that had bought a case or two of the caliber you want recently,and buy some off him to shoot for accuracy,function,and FPS over a chronograph. This is especially important if you are firing a self-loader because some surplus from some countries is a LOT hotter than others. For example,the last time I bought any surplus by the case,it was Israeli .308/7.62,and it was loaded a LOT hotter than GI surplus 7.62 when I shot some over my chronograph. Not a problem for me because I was shooting a rifle with an adjustable gas system,so there was no danger of hard wear or breaking something firing it. I found this out by getting 20 rounds of Israeli surplus 7.62 from a friend that had just bought a case. I then ordered a case from the same supplier after calling and checking to see if they had the same lot number in stock. Stuff comes in sealed battlepacks,and will probably still be reliable 100 years from now if not shot first.

One good reason to buy it by the case is because ammo will NEVER be cheaper next year. Buy a case or two of a caliber you shoot often,and then keep a casual eye open for more on sale as you shoot up what you have. AND......,save your brass! I may have never bothered to reload .223 pr .308,but that doesn't mean I don't have dies.

BTW,when I write I buy military calibers by the case or refer to ammo by the case,I am referring to a case of loaded ammo,not an individual case for an individual load. A case can be up to 1,000 rounds of loaded ammo,depending on the caliber and the country of origin. Larger caliber rounds tend to weigh more,so generally speaking,there will be fewer loaded rounds in a case for 30 caliber ammo than a case of 223 ammo. They can't make it too heavy for a typical soldier to grab up a case and run with it. As with every other field,logistics rule.

[Bigun]

Factory ammunition is dimensioned to fit everyone's gun. Once a cartridge is fired it expands to the size of the chamber that it was fired in. Now for non-semi-autos one can resize only the neck of the cartridge to have the proper tension to hold the bullet. If the magazine permits you can seat bullets to kiss the rifling or have more clearance for hunting. You are reloading rounds customized for your particular weapon. And you can vary the amount of powder to determine the most accurate velocity in your rifle for that particular bullet. Due to barrel harmonics, the bullet's transit time through the barrel has a definite affect on accuracy. So you want to reuse your brass, sort it by mfg and weight and times reloaded. Now for automatics there must be more clearance in the reloaded cartridge than can be used for a bolt or lever action. Revolvers make it easier to save your brass. It becomes addictive to chase smaller and smaller groups. The tightest groups I've ever consistently shot was with a 7x57 Chilean Mauser Mod95. I could shoot one hole 100yd groups with it if I took the time, mostly on brass preparation. In revolvers I've loaded probably loaded over 10,000 38 Specials and a couple thousand 45LC. And a lot of other cartridges as well. I started reloading at age 14 with a Lee Loader for my first 30-30 deer rifle. And I've been an avid reloader ever since.

Now my son loads primarily for  all semi-autos. He has a Dillon Progressive reloader with plates set up for 9mm, 45ACP, .223, and .308. With those set up, he can really crank out the loaded rounds. Lately I've been using Wilson arbor press dies as I'm hooked trying for the most accuracy I can develop.

To each his own.

  @Elderberry  Pretty much agree with all of that and especially the "to each his own" part.  I do somewhat disagree with the idea of only neck sizing rifle cases.  Used to do that but now I full length resize everything.  MUCH research has been done in this area and most competitive shooters are now full length resizing everything as well.  There is a great deal of good information about that on Youtube these days.

[Bigun]

Depends. The first question you need to ask yourself is "Am I anal?". If the answer to that question is "yes",you are going to LOVE your new hobby.

If you shoot handguns,rifles,or shotguns competitively,you have no choice but to reload unless you are wealthy. Even then you need to reload because ammo loaded specifically to meet the chamber specification of your gun and the type of shooting you do is as important as your gun is,

If your shooting is mostly casual/fun handgun shooting,buy a cheaper turret press like a Lee,and go for it. I personally don't like consumer-grade turret presses for rifle loads because resizing the brass  on rifle rounds tends to wear them out fairly quickly,and you want precision,not slop.

If most of your rifle shooting is for hunting or fun shooting and you shoot .223 or .308,don't bother to reload. You can buy surplus ammo by the case cheaper than you can buy the components to load for those calibers. Or you could the last time I checked.

Same for 9mm handgun ammo.

I STRONGLY advise you get your hands or a current issue or two of The Shotgun News to see what is available and how much it is selling for. Don't let the name fool you. Most of the guns,parts,accessories,and reloading equipment for sale there is for rifles and handguns. Also,it's not "news". It's all about retail and wholesale ads for the shooting sports and hobbies. If you have never seen one,your jaw will drop the first time you do. I took several copies with me the last time I went to Russia,and dropped them off at Russian gun shops. Talk about jaws dropping!

But,other than The Shotgun News,nothing I wrote here matters if your answer to my first question was "Yes,I tend to be anal." You will have found a home once you start reloading, and wonder why you haven't be doing it your entire life.

I used to do a lot of competitive pistol shooting @sneakypete but I've gotten a little long in the tooth for that now. Can't hang with the younger guys' eyes and nerves these days.  I do love shooting rifles at targets far far away and hitting the target. Doing that definitely requires precision ammo for each and every rifle and there is only one way to get that. Do it yourself. Which brings me back to my choice of presses.  That Redding T-7 I posted the picture of above is the ticket IMHO.  It has a 7 hole turret and is every bit as accurate as a Sinclair Co-Axial again IMHO.  You can use the dies of your choice but you do need to remember which hole they were in on the turret when you get them right.  After that, it's pretty much plug and play.

[sneakypete]

[quote author=Bigun link=topic=378849.msg2073063#msg2073063 date=1570802

........ Which brings me back to my choice of presses.  That Redding T-7 I posted the picture of above is the ticket IMHO.  It has a 7 hole turret and is every bit as accurate as a Sinclair Co-Axial again IMHO.  You can use the dies of your choice but you do need to remember which hole they were in on the turret when you get them right.  After that, it's pretty much plug and play.
[/quote]

@Bigun

Thanks for the info! I always used a RCBS "Rockchunker" single stage press for my rifle rounds,and a Lee turret press for the handgun rounds,

I never bothered to reload for my semi-auto rifles because they were all chambered for military calibers,and I could buy new surplus ammo cheaper than I could buy empty cases. Besides,I never considered any of my semi-auto rifles to be accurate to start with. I see them as useful tools,and nothing more. If I could hit a target the size of a man's chest at 500 yards,I was happy. Not really a super fan of semi-auto rifles,so I am a little casual about their accuracy.

Things changed rapidly when I was reloading for my 300 H&H Magnum Remington rifle. ANY load that didn't make one ragged hole at 100 yards would leave me having screaming hissy-fits. If I could see it,I could hit it with that rifle. Same with the 375/348 Win wildcat round (blown out and "Improved" ) I designed to shoot out of my Siamese Mauser. Think "375 H&H Magnum ballistics in a standard size Mauser 98 bolt-action. I even milled half the barrel octagon to break up barrel vibrations. Good luck hiding behind something if I were ever to shoot at you with that one when it was loaded with solids. Not exactly a fun gun/load to shoot,though. Recoil could be fierce with the heavier bullets and loads. I always wanted a 458 Win magnum,but never had enough spare change to justify spending that kind of money on something I would rarely shoot.  Besides,with the 375/348 Wildcat,the 458 would have been nothing more than an extra play toy. I had no intention of going to Africa,and would only shoot a elephant if it were charging at me. No way in hell would I ever hunt one.

Still,I LOVE fiddling with mechanical things,and rifles are mechanical. Give me a good,strong bolt action action to build a rifle around,and just watch me do my little "happy,happy dance".

[sneakypete]

@Elderberry

 ....  I do somewhat disagree with the idea of only neck sizing rifle cases.  Used to do that but now I full length resize everything.  MUCH research has been done in this area and most competitive shooters are now full length resizing everything as well.  There is a great deal of good information about that on Youtube these days.

@Bigun

I see full-length resizing as a safety aid. Necks tend to get thicker from brass "flow" as you fire and reload,and it is easy to forget about the middle and case head area getting thinner as the neck gets larger and needs to be reamed.

One method to use to prevent this is to weigh your cases and measure the case head area, and toss then when they start to get thinner and lighter. Of course this means you have to keep your brass separated and sorted by batch number and manufacturer,but we all do this anyhow,don't we?

Like I wrote earlier,if you are even a tiny bit anal,reloading is a dream come true. The flip side of that record is the absolute truth "If you are not anal at all,don't even THINK about reloading." You either obsess about doing EVERYTHING right EVERY time,or leave it alone.

[Bigun]

[quote author=Bigun link=topic=378849.msg2073063#msg2073063 date=1570802

........ Which brings me back to my choice of presses.  That Redding T-7 I posted the picture of above is the ticket IMHO.  It has a 7 hole turret and is every bit as accurate as a Sinclair Co-Axial again IMHO.  You can use the dies of your choice but you do need to remember which hole they were in on the turret when you get them right.  After that, it's pretty much plug and play.


@Bigun

Thanks for the info! I always used a RCBS "Rockchunker" single stage press for my rifle rounds,and a Lee turret press for the handgun rounds,

I never bothered to reload for my semi-auto rifles because they were all chambered for military calibers,and I could buy new surplus ammo cheaper than I could buy empty cases. Besides,I never considered any of my semi-auto rifles to be accurate to start with. I see them as useful tools,and nothing more. If I could hit a target the size of a man's chest at 500 yards,I was happy. Not really a super fan of semi-auto rifles,so I am a little casual about their accuracy.

Things changed rapidly when I was reloading for my 300 H&H Magnum Remington rifle. ANY load that didn't make one ragged hole at 100 yards would leave me having screaming hissy-fits. If I could see it,I could hit it with that rifle. Same with the 375/348 Win wildcat round (blown out and "Improved" ) I designed to shoot out of my Siamese Mauser. Think "375 H&H Magnum ballistics in a standard size Mauser 98 bolt-action. I even milled half the barrel octagon to break up barrel vibrations. Good luck hiding behind something if I were ever to shoot at you with that one when it was loaded with solids. Not exactly a fun gun/load to shoot,though. Recoil could be fierce with the heavier bullets and loads. I always wanted a 458 Win magnum,but never had enough spare change to justify spending that kind of money on something I would rarely shoot.  Besides,with the 375/348 Wildcat,the 458 would have been nothing more than an extra play toy. I had no intention of going to Africa,and would only shoot a elephant if it were charging at me. No way in hell would I ever hunt one.

Still,I LOVE fiddling with mechanical things,and rifles are mechanical.

No problem @sneakypete. If you already have those presses and are happy with the results you are getting I wouldn't spring for that T-7 but it really is the finest turret press on the market and BTW. I don't use the priming mechanism that comes with it. Never even mounted it on the press in fact. We prime cases with an RCBS system



My reach out and touch things rifle is in .300 Win Mag caliber.   That's about all the recoil I can deal with and shoot accurately.

[txradioguy]

@Elderberry

To ME,turret presses are for production,not obsession. I LOVE doing each individual step AS an individual step. For example, I love hand-priming because I love the ability to feel when the primer is seated in the case head pocket "just right". Same with bullet seating and crimping,and you just cant do that with a auto press.

Makes perfect sense.  There's an art to all of it.  I learned that from talking and working with the guys at the Army Marksmanship Unit a few times.

"Just Right" should be the motto of target shooters. Even the suggestion of anything slightly less will have them shrieking in horror. Don't ask me how I know this.

LOL! I know some 3 Gun folks that would react the same way.

[sneakypete]

No problem @sneakypete. If you already have those presses and are happy with the results you are getting I wouldn't spring for that T-7 but it really is the finest turret press on the market and BTW. I don't use the priming mechanism that comes with it. Never even mounted it on the press in fact. We prime cases with an RCBS system



My reach out and touch things rifle is in .300 Win Mag caliber.   That's about all the recoil I can deal with and shoot accurately.

@Bigun

Lots of people like the 300 Win Mag,but I prefer the longer tapered neck and shoulder design of the H&H cartridges. Probably not a nickels worth of actual difference,but I believe the flame front and pressure wall from the expanding powder gasses flow smoother through a tapered neck and shoulder,and that this leads to more consistent bullet strikes at long ranges. Of course,the price to be paid for this is a longer action and a lot more money for the longer action. On top of that,I like barrels around 26 inches long when shooting the 30 caliber or larger magnums. I personally believe the slower burning powders also lead to more accuracy in most rifles and loads,and slower burning powders mean longer barrels as well as longer cases and longer actions to hold and shoot the longer rounds. That is one of the few absolutes in life.

I had to sell my H&H to get the money to move cross country after my mother died and my father had a heart attack,and I still miss it.  I had even lapped the bolt and receiver,and the action was "Smooth as butta!". No way in hell can I justify buying another one at the prices they sell for today. Especially since I have no actual need or use for it. Still,my memories of it never fail to bring a smile to my face.

[Elderberry]

I have one of those RCBS priming tools, but I prefer the Lee hand priming tools. I get a better feel.

[Elderberry]

@Bigun

Lots of people like the 300 Win Mag,but I prefer the longer tapered neck and shoulder design of the H&H cartridges. Probably not a nickels worth of actual difference,but I believe the flame front and pressure wall from the expanding powder gasses flow smoother through a tapered neck and shoulder,and that this leads to more consistent bullet strikes at long ranges. Of course,the price to be paid for this is a longer action and a lot more money for the longer action. On top of that,I like barrels around 26 inches long when shooting the 30 caliber or larger magnums. I personally believe the slower burning powders also lead to more accuracy in most rifles and loads,and slower burning powders mean longer barrels as well as longer cases and longer actions to hold and shoot the longer rounds. That is one of the few absolutes in life.

I had to sell my H&H to get the money to move cross country after my mother died and my father had a heart attack,and I still miss it.  I had even lapped the bolt and receiver,and the action was "Smooth as butta!". No way in hell can I justify buying another one at the prices they sell for today. Especially since I have no actual need or use for it. Still,my memories of it never fail to bring a smile to my face.

My son has had a hard-on for a Ruger#1 Tropical in 375 H&H for the longest time. He keeps looking.

[sneakypete]

I have one of those RCBS priming tools, but I prefer the Lee hand priming tools. I get a better feel.

@Elderberry

I'm with ya on that one. Primed thousands of cases using that cheap little tool. It gives you a good feel for when the primer is fully seated in the pocket.

[Bigun]

@Elderberry

I'm with ya on that one. Primed thousands of cases using that cheap little tool. It gives you a good feel for when the primer is fully seated in the pocket.

I have one and have used it a lot but now find that I like the RCBS better.  Guess that's why they make them both.

[Smokin Joe]

@Elderberry

I'm with ya on that one. Primed thousands of cases using that cheap little tool. It gives you a good feel for when the primer is fully seated in the pocket.

Ditto!